Ford cutting EV production

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Why would you when the market leader is cheaper, has significantly more experience and a better charging network?

On the Australian pricing alone you'd have to have rocks in your head to pay the extra $14K for the povvo pack 'Mustang' over the Tesla Model Y.

Tesla is the Ford of EVs and Ford is the MG of EVs

But here’s the thing, in the USA, the price of Tesla Y and Mach E are neck and neck, yet crickets at Ford…
not like here where they just charge us the same as UK price why Tesla adopts US pricing for the Y.
So if the was any justice Mach E would start at $65,000 not $80,000 Ford at its price gouging best…

And yes, Mach E battery issues and overheating because using full throttle too much is embarrassing…

[jpd80]

Currently, there are around 18.4 million light vehicles on Australian roads.
If we keep selling a million vehicles a year and could magically make all those EV sales and if
we retire one ICE vehicle for every EV sold then it would take more than 18 years to get done.

Auto makers cannot supply enough to do that, so if the numbers were say 250,000 per year
then the change will take longer than a human lifetime…….

So petrol and diesel are going to remain a big part of our transport need well into the future…

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Why would you when the market leader is cheaper, has significantly more experience and a better charging network?

On the Australian pricing alone you'd have to have rocks in your head to pay the extra $14K for the povvo pack 'Mustang' over the Tesla Model Y.

Tesla is the Ford of EVs and Ford is the MG of EVs

So if Ford is the MG of ev s
Where are mg ev s?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

So if Ford is the MG of ev
Where are mg ev s?

I started eating a review of MG EV, it started like this,
“ All MG cars are designed and built with quality in mind…..”

I stopped reading……

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But here’s the thing, in the USA, the price of Tesla Y and Mach E are neck and neck, yet crickets at Ford…
not like here where they just charge us the same as UK price why Tesla adopts US pricing for the Y.
So if the was any justice Mach E would start at $65,000 not $80,000 Ford at its price gouging best…

And yes, Mach E battery issues and overheating because using full throttle too much is embarrassing…

That's the thing. The car can't be priced the same. It needs to be cheaper or differentiate enough from the Tesla. It doesn't do either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

That's the thing. The car can't be priced the same. It needs to be cheaper or differentiate enough from the Tesla. It doesn't do either.

Going on current orders, it sounds like Ford is happy with sales in the hundreds, not the thousands….
I think it’s damn cheeky charging $107,000 for a Mach E GT but it sounds like it’s 50% of the orders….


EDIT;
Consider this,
Tesla sells 2,000 model Ys at $15k less than Mach E’s price, so 500 Mach E sales x $15k = $7.5 million profit
Now, divide that by Tesla’s additional 1500 sales and that’s like $5,000/ car for vehicles that Ford didn’t have to sell…

It’s only clever if you can rip off your customers without them noticing…

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNqP-yxSZ4

'Huge news, Ford CEO just shut down dealers'

Not sure if sensational, couldn't work out if they put their dealers in line over markups, or took over their dealers, or changed the dealer franchise system... but it seems Farley is working big time to make the cars cheaper for the everyday Joe.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Going on current orders, it sounds like Ford is happy with sales in the hundreds, not the thousands….

I think it’s damn cheeky charging $107,000 for a Mach E GT but it sounds like it’s 50% of the orders….





EDIT;

Consider this,

Tesla sells 2,000 model Ys at $15k less than Mach E’s price, so 500 Mach E sales x $15k = $7.5 million profit

Now, divide that by Tesla’s additional 1500 sales and that’s like $5,000/ car for vehicles that Ford didn’t have to sell…



It’s only clever if you can rip off your customers without them noticing…

Problem with the maths is that even at the lower price, Tesla are making more on the cars than Ford are at the higher price

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

Problem with the maths is that even at the lower price, Tesla are making more on the cars than Ford are at the higher price

I know that, the profit Tesla makes per vehicle was not the point.

Let me explain,
What I was trying to show (poorly) was that if Ford sold 1500 more Mach Es at the lower Tesla price point
it would actually struggle to match the profits made by those 500 higher priced vehicles plus all of the
Resources saved by not having to make and sell another 1500 cars…..they’re way ahead on internal savings

While I don’t agree with charging higher prices, I can understand why it makes sense for Ford to do it.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I know that, the profit Tesla makes per vehicle was not the point.



Let me explain,

What I was trying to show (poorly) was that if Ford sold 1500 more Mach Es at the lower Tesla price point

it would actually struggle to match the profits made by those 500 higher priced vehicles plus all of the

Resources saved by not having to make and sell another 1500 cars…..they’re way ahead on internal savings



While I don’t agree with charging higher prices, I can understand why it makes sense for Ford to do it.

Thought I replied to this but didn't hit send!

Yes, gotcha now. Old opportunity cost equation.

[Sprintey]

One of the insanest earnings write ups I've seen for a while:

https://insideevs.com/news/695176/lu...de-in-q3-2023/

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIpipeUI6zw

Wow.

Is this it? The end of it all? Have a listen to the news articles he outlines, huge moves happening.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIpipeUI6zw



Wow.



Is this it? The end of it all? Have a listen to the news articles he outlines, huge moves happening.

Sprintey... Never quote that bloke

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIpipeUI6zw

Wow.

Is this it? The end of it all? Have a listen to the news articles he outlines, huge moves happening.

Summary? I'm not going to listen to 23min of that guy.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by b0son

Summary? I'm not going to listen to 23min of that guy.

I was bored....or... pretending I had work to avoid watching a rom-com with my wife.... so summary...

Several large car companies (VW, GM & Ford) are shelving, delaying or scaling down some of their EV plans as sales drop or the drain on capital just gets too high....

and battery manufactures can't get enough resources to meet the projected demand. ...

Then there is the issue of dealing with dead batteries with a claim dead lithium-ion batteries are worthless at end of life and so there's no interest in collecting and recycling...

Oh.. and he said he thinks Ford actually has some good people running it however they keep making dumb decisions over and over...

Apart from Tesla owners, who are "a little bit religious" about their cars, other first time EV buyers next time around go back to ICE because their EV's were inconvenient and a financial disaster.

[ozpacman]

Regardless of whether one loves or loathes dear old John, he does make some interesting points.

I recall seeing something in the media last year regarding the Rio Tinto manager stating that the ability to supply lithium through its mining operations could not hope to match the projected demand for the product from EV manufacturers. So he's not making that up.

We also seem to be seeing a pullback from several other vehicle manufacturers regarding their EV production targets, and Toyota seemingly reluctant to commit to the EV as being the future of motoring as they see it.

Tesla supposedly discounting by up to 20% and citing reductions in supply chain costs as enabling this to occur is also interesting, in that they must be one of few companies in the world who have managed to find cheaper material or component prices. Everyone else seems to be having to pay more. Heavy discounting usually spells a bit of corporate nervousness, but who knows in this crazy modern world!

I find it all a bit perplexing - but then again, the level of my lack of intelligence has been pointed out to me previously so I'm probably completely on the wrong track.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Regardless of whether one loves or loathes dear old John, he does make some interesting points.

I recall seeing something in the media last year regarding the Rio Tinto manager stating that the ability to supply lithium through its mining operations could not hope to match the projected demand for the product from EV manufacturers. So he's not making that up.

We also seem to be seeing a pullback from several other vehicle manufacturers regarding their EV production targets, and Toyota seemingly reluctant to commit to the EV as being the future of motoring as they see it.

Tesla supposedly discounting by up to 20% and citing reductions in supply chain costs as enabling this to occur is also interesting, in that they must be one of few companies in the world who have managed to find cheaper material or component prices. Everyone else seems to be having to pay more. Heavy discounting usually spells a bit of corporate nervousness, but who knows in this crazy modern world!

I find it all a bit perplexing - but then again, the level of my lack of intelligence has been pointed out to me previously so I'm probably completely on the wrong track.

Tesla also had incredibly high profit margins which once initial capital and R&D build costs for plant setup were amortised left a lot of fat for price reductions. As production & supply efficiencies improved build volume increases cover profit margin decreases.

[b0son]

I'm curious whether the losses the traditional automakers are making on EVs are the same as Tesla when they were at the same stage. Is it reasonable to expect a profit on their EVs this early in the game?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by b0son

I'm curious whether the losses the traditional automakers are making on EVs are the same as Tesla when they were at the same stage. Is it reasonable to expect a profit on their EVs this early in the game?

Probably worse as they need to keep ICE production and R&D going at the same time, some have mentioned they'll be EV-only eventually, but most still have an ICE range and growing their EV side.

[Sprintey]

Polestar achieves net zero...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...igned-no-value

...valuation