New Nsw Car Hoon Laws . Grandma Policing . - Page 6

TheInterceptor · 08-03-2012, 07:45 PM

Funny, actually no its sad how there are people here that take anything govco says laying down. Last time i checked it was a democracy.. But it seems people have been brainwashed.

XR6TCraig · 08-03-2012, 08:46 PM

There is a section of the public who really have been brainwashed. They actually believe the blatant spin ( every k over is a killer, speed kills, etc) that has been put in place to try to make speed monitoring devices for the purpose of revenue collection accpetable to the public. Even the cops believe the propaganda.

In reality that is all that those expensive speed kills campaigns are. The road toll has changed little since the upping of speed monitoring by the state governments, but revenue collected from speeding motorists has gone through the roof. It's not about road safety and never has been.

TheInterceptor · 08-03-2012, 11:34 PM

Just to get an idea of what limits are to what roads out there.

100kmph posted limit

110kmph posted limit.

130kmph posted limit.

We got to a curve after driving for 5mins (have it on video)

Not much difference between the 110 and 130 roads.

Here's a 41 second video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnHBz...ature=youtu.be
(for those who will say "What if something jumps out?" It wont matter if i hit it at 100 or 130 my brake reaction time wont be enough to avoid impact. Morso the effect when fatigued. No chance of swerving at those speeds in my 4wd either)

So. Going 150kmph on either bitumen road wont seem to incurr death, unless you try in a Suziku APV or a Mitsu Express van or something that shouldnt be near that speed to start with, or you are incapable of driving at that speed, or an animal that 90% of the time you will see coming as there are mostly low lying vegetation if not none, will jump out and tackle your car (but not necessarily meaning you die)

When those roads were speed de-restricted, the population of Australia did not plummet.

Theres more to Australia than what you see in suburbia. Its a whole different ball game.

Torment47 · 08-03-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Just to get an idea of what limits are to what roads out there.

Here's a 41 second video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnHBz...ature=youtu.be

.

On a road like that i'd be tempted to accelerate more than the limit.

BHDOGS · 08-03-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

There is a section of the public who really have been brainwashed. They actually believe the blatant spin ( every k over is a killer, speed kills, etc) that has been put in place to try to make speed monitoring devices for the purpose of revenue collection accpetable to the public. Even the cops believe the propaganda.

In reality that is all that those expensive speed kills campaigns are. The road toll has changed little since the upping of speed monitoring by the state governments, but revenue collected from speeding motorists has gone through the roof. It's not about road safety and never has been.

Thats because speed is a killer or try it urself drive at 100kmh into a wall let me know how that goes and yes every kilometer faster you go increase yours and the person or vehicle you impacts chance of survival if you think people are so stupid on these forums as to suggest 130 in the middle of the outback is wrong then thats your buisness but dont sit there crapping on like speeding is perfectly fine in built up areas where cameras are installed.

XR6TCraig · 08-03-2012, 11:57 PM

So by your arguement I will be dead if I hit a wall at the speed limit of 100KPH. But surely I would survive that crash if I am not over the limit?

I am safe travelling at speed providing I have the right set of skills and conditions. I regularly do over 230KPH at track days on a sports bike so I am not a stranger to travelling at speeds much greater than most here.
On another point about speed, while sitting stationary, the earth turns on its axis. Depending on your location you can be doing as much as 2000kph while you sit there on your butt typing away on your computer. Has the speed of it all killed you?

Speed doesn't kill. Its the sudden stop into that wall that you put up across the highway that would kill me. Not only would it kill me at 100kph, but also at 80kph, maybe even at 60kph.

BHDOGS · 09-03-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

So by your arguement I will be dead if I hit a wall at the speed limit of 100KPH. But surely I would survive that crash if I am not over the limit?

Ah your a pro driver sorry didnt realise then knock urself out and drive at 150 in the middle of the school zone seeing as speedings fine

XR6TCraig · 09-03-2012, 12:11 AM

Your obviously an expert!

Should I wave as I go by said school? You are still at school right?

I'n no pro, but judging from your comments I have hunch that I might have a little more experience, both in life and in regards to driving in different environments and conditions.

Please feel free to go back, read all of my posts in this thread thoroughly and point out when I condoned speeding around school zones or even in built up areas?

BHDOGS · 09-03-2012, 12:18 AM

im talking about in a built up area i have no tolerance for speeding not even 5ks over if you wanna go on a track or in the outback and do 150 i couldnt really give a crap as all your gonna hurt is urself but when you put it around others then yes every k over is a killer and id rather that one k over wasnt the difference between my life.

XR6TCraig · 09-03-2012, 12:27 AM

Well I agree........... to a point. I don't want people doing inappropriate speeds in built up areas.

But, if you honestly believe that doing 64 in a 60 zone at any time ( be it 4AM or 4PM) will mean the difference between life and death, or that if you do the posted speed limit you will be safe, but if you do a few KPH over it you wont be, then the huge budget spent on the spin that you have been force fed for the last 10 years about speed to make covert speed monitoring devices acceptable to the public, has worked.........on you anyway.

jimmyxr6t04 · 09-03-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Ah your a pro driver sorry didnt realise then knock urself out and drive at 150 in the middle of the school zone seeing as speedings fine

I don't think anyone is saying that speeding or driving fast in school zone or built up area is fine? The majority are simply arguing that the speed limit enforcement is a bit of a joke.

Doing 85 in a 40 zone is very different to speeding on a straight, deserted highway.

It seems illogical that a bloke doing 70 in a 40 zone with school children, will get the same fine as a person doing 140 in a 110 zone on a quiet, straight stretch of road.

XR6TCraig · 09-03-2012, 12:37 AM

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Just to get an idea of what limits are to what roads out there.

100kmph posted limit
image

110kmph posted limit.
image

130kmph posted limit.
image
We got to a curve after driving for 5mins (have it on video)

Not much difference between the 110 and 130 roads.

Here's a 41 second video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnHBz...ature=youtu.be
(for those who will say "What if something jumps out?" It wont matter if i hit it at 100 or 130 my brake reaction time wont be enough to avoid impact. Morso the effect when fatigued. No chance of swerving at those speeds in my 4wd either)

So. Going 150kmph on either bitumen road wont seem to incurr death, unless you try in a Suziku APV or a Mitsu Express van or something that shouldnt be near that speed to start with, or you are incapable of driving at that speed, or an animal that 90% of the time you will see coming as there are mostly low lying vegetation if not none, will jump out and tackle your car (but not necessarily meaning you die)

When those roads were speed de-restricted, the population of Australia did not plummet.

Theres more to Australia than what you see in suburbia. Its a whole different ball game.

Reminds me of the good old times in the NT, great long smooth roads.

XR6TCraig · 09-03-2012, 12:50 AM

That you could travel on as fast as you thought appropriate!

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

im talking about in a built up area i have no tolerance for speeding not even 5ks over if you wanna go on a track or in the outback and do 150 i couldnt really give a crap as all your gonna hurt is urself but when you put it around others then yes every k over is a killer and id rather that one k over wasnt the difference between my life.

Every k over isn't a killer...

I'd actually like to point out that the difference between full braking at 60 and 65 is but a few centimeters if that, in reality to enforce any speed limit is stupid in one way, of course don't do 80 in a 40 zone, but 40-0 is a couple meters? this never adds on reaction time, or even if you see what you are avoiding you may just drive 40 straight through something that runs onto the road, in all reality, speed doesn't kill, every k over doesn't kill... it all comes down to CARS kill, so police make revenue of it only.

YOU really want to make a difference?

Send a letter try and enforce a no cars policy world wide, because it's not speed that kills, it's humans and cars that kill, speed is just but a minor factor that the cops have as their only proven statistic to classify an accident as something.

TheInterceptor · 09-03-2012, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

That you could travel on as fast as you thought appropriate!

Its all about common sense. But who needs sense when you have sensationalist bull**** and Govco to tell us the whats what in our lives.

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Its all about common sense. But who needs sense when you have sensationalist bull**** and Govco to tell us the whats what in our lives.

May I ask, are those roads now capped? before I left the road from Katherine to Darwin was still un-restricted, and afterwards became 130.

And if they are, what's the chances you are doing 160-180 and you come across a cop willing to chase you?

TheInterceptor · 09-03-2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

May I ask, are those roads now capped? before I left the road from Katherine to Darwin was still un-restricted, and afterwards became 130.

And if they are, what's the chances you are doing 160-180 and you come across a cop willing to chase you?

Well from my time in the NT the long hauls are now 130. No more de-derestriction.

Havent seen not one police car. Only one small fire response land cruiser outside Alice springs.
Doubt the cops will sit there all day to ping a handfull of cars. Distances are really long, police are needed in the towns. On that stretch i posted, two departments. Coober Pedy police, Alice Springs police. They dont seem to leave town as they are quite busy in them.....

Its once you go south to SA, then you gotta worry.

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Well from my time in the NT the long hauls are now 130. No more de-derestriction.

Havent seen not one police car. Only one small fire response land cruiser outside Alice springs.
Doubt the cops will sit there all day to ping a handfull of cars. Distances are really long, police are needed in the towns. On that stretch i posted, two departments. Coober Pedy police, Alice Springs police. They dont seem to leave town as they are quite busy in them.....

Its once you go south to SA, then you gotta worry.

Fair enough, it'd be quite the place to go fast in a GT or F6 without putting yourself or others in danger.

I do miss the laid back style of the NT.

SPArKy_Dave · 09-03-2012, 01:36 AM

The rules being imposed, are too 'one size fits all' in my opinion.

Example -
Just yesterday, I drove on Don Rd from Healesville through the Don Valley, to Launching Place.

The first 3/4 of Don Rd, is narrow unsealed, and rutted, with a crushed granite like surface.
It has blind corners, no precautionary speed signs, and is essentially a mountain track.
There are many signs warning of hidden driveways, as it is still quite a populated area.

The posted speed limit - 80km's per/hr

My average speed - 40km's per/hr

The road surface was so bad, that anything much above 50-60km's, and the corrugations steered the rear end of the vehicle.

My point here, is that if I was to travel at say 70km's per/hr, I haven't broken the speed limit, but would still have likely ended up side swiping a tree, overturning the car, or worse.

I feel these 'one size fits all' rules, are taking away the common sense driving approach, on a generational scale.

I could be doing 55 in a 50 zone, in a new XR6, and stop in time.

I could be doing 45 in a 50 zone, in my XF wagon, and WOULDN'T stop in time.

My point?....... - so many variables - road surface condition, road surface temperature, vehicle braking technology, disc/pad temp, tyre profile, tyre temp, vehicle load weight, differing reaction times, etc........
the statistics stated, are just too simplified.

but don't worry about tailgating........ as long as ur under the limit, everything's sweet........... right? :p

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

The rules being imposed, are too 'one size fits all' in my opinion.

Example -
Just yesterday, I drove on Don Rd from Healesville through the Don Valley, to Launching Place.

The first 3/4 of Don Rd, is narrow unsealed, and rutted, with a crushed granite like surface.
It has blind corners, no precautionary speed signs, and is essentially a mountain track.
There are many signs warning of hidden driveways, as it is still quite a populated area.

The posted speed limit - 80km's per/hr

My average speed - 40km's per/hr

The road surface was so bad, that anything much above 50-60km's, and the corrugations steered the rear end of the vehicle.

My point here, is that if I was to travel at say 70km's per/hr, I haven't broken the speed limit, but would still have likely ended up side swiping a tree, overturning the car, or worse.

I feel these 'one size fits all' rules, are taking away the common sense driving approach, on a generational scale.

I could be doing 55 in a 50 zone, in a new XR6, and stop in time.

I could be doing 45 in a 50 zone, in my XF wagon, and WOULDN'T stop in time.

My point?....... - so many variables - road surface condition, road surface temperature, vehicle braking technology, disc/pad temp, tyre profile, tyre temp, vehicle load weight, differing reaction times, etc........
the statistics stated, are just too simplified.

but don't worry about tailgating........ as long as ur under the limit, everything's sweet........... right? :p

I tend to think of the Government as an ignorant get it over and done with bunch of guys..

With a check list that must be all checked.

Does it cost much money?
Will I need to alter this in the next 5 years?
Can I get convincing advertising to enforce it?
Will it make money?
Will convincing evidence be given if someone disagrees?
And Finally
How easily can I pass and implement it?

It seems most can happily live with Government Propaganda to the point they'd believe Santa as well.

chamb0 · 09-03-2012, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Its all about common sense. But who needs sense when you have sensationalist bull**** and Govco to tell us the whats what in our lives.

I'm sure we all agree though on the saying "the trouble with common sense is that it's not very common." We tell each other stories every day about the crap dangerous things that crap dangerous driver do. I look around at the other drivers I share the road with, and a shiver goes down my spine at the thought of all of them being left to their own devices, with my personal safety being dependant on their flawed use of 'common sense' as they see fit. In this way speed limits and other road laws, as much as they are disliked, are there for the common good and to try to cater across the board for the fact that people regularly make mistakes, The idea being that when they do occur the risk of trauma is reduced. I like to think about it as catering to the lowest common denominator.

Sure, i may feel I have a supernatural driving ability far superior to everyone else, but there's plenty of people around who should never be allowed to drive at 130 kph (I'm not necessarily talking about the Stuart Hwy here). And I would add that many people have an exaggerated sense of their own driving ability. It seems the 'one rule for all' (theoretically anyway) approach is the only conceivable way it could work with fairness.

Having said that, I do agree with you Sparky Dave about the one size fits all speed limits, just because the sign says 80, doesn't mean you gotta do 80.

Shonky. · 09-03-2012, 02:09 AM

All the increasingly harsh speeding laws continue to contribute to making drivers dumber and dumber.

People seem to firmly believe that if you are sober, not speeding, wearing a seatbelt and not tired that you will come to no harm on the road regardless of what dumb sh%t you do.

Oh, and good f%&king luck confiscating my car.

Oh, and some of the camry drivers posting here make me sick

XR6Naranja · 09-03-2012, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

All the increasingly harsh speeding laws continue to contribute to making drivers dumber and dumber.

People seem to firmly believe that if you are sober, not speeding, wearing a seatbelt and not tired that you will come to no harm on the road regardless of what dumb sh%t you do.

Oh, and good f%&king luck confiscating my car.

Oh, and some of the camry drivers posting here make me sick

Too true, the tighter things get, the more out of control things get.

I don't have kids, but I know of a few stories I can use in comparison to the governments restrictions, a kid grows up you give them a couple restrictions, they follow they learn, but you tighten them, the kids feel strangled by them, at age 10 they attempt to rebel, but still don't have the full capability to, they turn 16, after 16 years of strict rules, they rebel, they leave the house, steal, vandalize, become drug addicts, jail time.

Same thing happens, the more stricter it gets, the worse people become on the road.

Also sudzy you may find your inbox is full ;)

Maggot · 09-03-2012, 02:48 AM

Remember that most laws are a reaction to problems, I remember when what we now taboo as Drunk Driving was considered a socially acceptable sport. Gravel Road home from the pub dodging kanga's while ****ed.. good times.. now.. oh. yes. ban their cars.

The fact is we have had a generation of people with access to fast cars that do not know how, when and where to have a fang.. they have killed poeple so we end up with these crappy laws.

If there was a reduction is speed deaths then the media attention would dissapear along with the rules, same as is does for bird flu, qantas and anything else that makes news.

The law affects those who fear it the most.. this means that most of us will end up paying $2000 dollars for 40K over the limit.. verus paying probably $500 dollars if you try to evaid the police and have some drugs and guns onboard.. or get of scott free (susp sentence) if you do it all in a stolen car.. this is just the way of things.

Everyone (even my feather-foot mother in law) is capable of getting busted for 20K over, so yes, I agree that taking cars is not good.. especially here in Perth where they once ruled that the confiscation law should not apply to a really expensive car. But the law can now confiscate proceeds of crime, mainly for for drug dealers.. which I agree with.. so tit for tat as they say.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 09-03-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

The posted speed limit - 80km's per/hr

My average speed - 40km's per/hr

The road surface was so bad, that anything much above 50-60km's, and the corrugations steered the rear end of the vehicle.

My point here, is that if I was to travel at say 70km's per/hr, I haven't broken the speed limit, but would still have likely ended up side swiping a tree, overturning the car, or worse

Here is a perfect example of common sense in use

The speed limit is the maximum speed you are legally allowed to travel at, not the speed you must travel at, if conditions are bad, rain, heavy traffic or whatever you slow down.

And to all those expert drivers that believe they are so superior that they know how to travel faster and still be safe

, I am surprised most people here don't hold pole positions at Bathurst.

The fact that people believe speed makes no difference to safety just shows how simple they are, as it obviously does, it increases stopping distance of your vehicle, increases the distance travelled during reaction time, increases severity of impact just to name a few.

Re confiscating cars, well it's easily avoided just don't speed at high speeds, because if you do, taking the car and your drivers privilege is probably a great idea, as it hopefully gets you into public transport for a while, making more room on the roads for drivers who do have a brain and the ability to drive a vehicle according to the rules, which was the proviso you were issued a license under anyway.

If you can not conduct yourself according to the rules why should you be able to continue to do so, holding a license and driving on the road is a privilege not a right, abuse the privilege and hopefully some one will make sure you no longer have the privilege as you have proven yourself irresponsible and incapable of correct behavior.

If you do not like the road rules and are unable to drive to the rules, may be hand your license in and look for alternatives (we have busses and trains for people like you), if you choose to ignore the rules with some luck the police will help you make that decision (by taking your license)as obviously some people are too simple to make the decision on their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

Oh, and good f%&king luck confiscating my car.

I wish I was as hard and tough as you, I am sure a hero like yourself would stop the cops from putting your car onto stilt tray.......NOT

gtfpv · 09-03-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Here is a perfect example of common sense in use

The speed limit is the maximum speed you are legally allowed to travel at, not the speed you must travel at, if conditions are bad, rain, heavy traffic or whatever you slow down.

And to all those expert drivers that believe they are so superior that they know how to travel faster and still be safe

, I am surprised most people here don't hold pole positions at Bathurst.

The fact that people believe speed makes no difference to safety just shows how simple they are, as it obviously does, it increases stopping distance of your vehicle, increases the distance travelled during reaction time, increases severity of impact just to name a few.

Re confiscating cars, well it's easily avoided just don't speed at high speeds, because if you do, taking the car and your drivers privilege is probably a great idea, as it hopefully gets you into public transport for a while, making more room on the roads for drivers who do have a brain and the ability to drive a vehicle according to the rules, which was the proviso you were issued a license under anyway.

If you can not conduct yourself according to the rules why should you be able to continue to do so, holding a license and driving on the road is a privilege not a right, abuse the privilege and hopefully some one will make sure you no longer have the privilege as you have proven yourself irresponsible and incapable of correct behavior.

If you do not like the road rules and are unable to drive to the rules, may be hand your license in and look for alternatives (we have busses and trains for people like you), if you choose to ignore the rules with some luck the police will help you make that decision (by taking your license)as obviously some people are too simple to make the decision on their own.

I wish I was as hard and tough as you, I am sure a hero like yourself would stop the cops from putting your car onto stilt tray.......NOT

i agree with your post , but will oppose it mate . so much crap in there its not funny .
1st of all our average speed in our new performance GT is 38km/hr , 2nd of all , i havent had any speeding offence or fine in 15 years . 3rd of all i'm a tax payer , fully funded and self supported , pay all bills taxes and law abiding citezen , 4th of all , if it takes me 90 mins to 2 hours each way in sydney traffic now to go to work , how long would it take me to catch a combined taxi, train , and then taxi to get to work daily . and 5th of all your telling me i'm a total freak and deserve to get my $70 000 aussie performance car takien off me if i were to simply floor it for 2 or 3 seconds , overtaking a tired wandering truck driver on the m4 at 4 am in the morning . 2 times in 5 years .

. yet there is no offence for being tired behind the wheel .

i will add further to this post .
yes i am totallyt aware of what a mistake can cost you or someone else . i once took my 6 year old son out onto the footpath on his peewee 50 , he was all fitted with helmet gloves and safety gear , i was on the back with no helmet , we were idling along at walking speed , i kid you not on the footpath going up to open land at the edge of my estate for a blap , when i highway patrol , pulled up and wanted a chat . the officer asked me if he knows how many laws i am breaking , my reply no not really but i know we shouldnt have the engine on and be on the bike on the footpath ,
he then proceeded to tell me , i'm breaking 7 laws , and can lose my car licence and truck licence , be fined $2500 on the spot , vitrually putting me out of a job also , and if i decide to continue onto that vacant public property there i will be breaking further laws . he suggested getting off the bike and walking home , which we did . then i sold the bike , my son now plays his playstation and lost all interest in the bike riding .
this has come a long way from when we rode our motorbikes down at the local park when i was a teen . and remember , i was putting along at walking pace . i undrstand one for all and all for one , and accept it . now i must remember never to speed at all no matter what , even when over taking briefly . because now it could ruin my life , even if nothing happens .

malazn mafia · 09-03-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

May I ask, are those roads now capped? before I left the road from Katherine to Darwin was still un-restricted, and afterwards became 130.

And if they are, what's the chances you are doing 160-180 and you come across a cop willing to chase you?

and if you're an outsider and not from the NT, would you even be concerned if you got caught? I would be more concerned about some form of wildlife rearranging the front of your car or piercing your intercooler (a bullbar would be helpful). I don't think they'll get a tow truck out in the middle of nowhere. And last time I checked, a speeding fine is not a criminal offence that can result in extradition order from your home state. Worst they can do is ban you from driving in their state. I might be wrong?

TheInterceptor · 09-03-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

and if you're an outsider and not from the NT, would you even be concerned if you got caught? I would be more concerned about some form of wildlife rearranging the front of your car or piercing your intercooler (a bullbar would be helpful). I don't think they'll get a tow truck out in the middle of nowhere. And last time I checked, a speeding fine is not a criminal offence that can result in extradition order from your home state. Worst they can do is ban you from driving in their state. I might be wrong?

Hi. You will be fined however much it is. You most likley wont be sent to court ( if one would exceed signpost number by 20kmh+) since you live far from the place of offence.

If the speed detected was 30km over the posted number, im sure theyll throw the book at you, youll only be able to drive home and thats it for another 6 months or whenever they want to give your licence back.

Fev · 09-03-2012, 12:24 PM

Seems a lot of people have forgotten school zones are relatively new. So going by the logic a lot of people seem to post on this forum in regards to speedlimits every week - every single person that drove the posted speed limit back then past a school was a potential murder and should have been tried, found guilt and hanged because of it.

The magical number on the posted sign does and will never not give you an accurate reading of what speeds are safe on that road for you or those around you. They are merely enforced guidelines for the sake of the general populations absolute lack of common sense and to top up the pockets of the horribly wasteful government.

Savy?