Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[stazza]

Ford took the smart way out. They know it's over. GM knows it's over. But new we see their true colours. Cut prices from all their vehicles claiming on these great savings, but then turn around and ask for millions and millions of dollars and pay cuts and redundancies, which I'm sure would more than cover the losses on their 'discounts'. I wouldn't put it past holden that it was their plan all along.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by stazza

Sorry what? Ford took the easy way out?

They are just smart enough to see the writing on the wall instead of Holden bullshitting everyone and trying to scab more money.

It's easy for holden, they will just keep asking for more cash.

Well, the easiest option is always the smartest too!! But the harder option is always more satisfying.

Also, why is this just a Ford v Holden thing? Toyota is out there fighting too, or are they not "showing there true" colors either? Although, I if you want to be fair, Ford fought harder than Mitsubishi, Nissan, etc, etc.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

How about put the subsidy in the hands of the consumer by giving a new car buyer a rebate (or make it 5% GST) on the purchase of a car made or assembled in Australia. Forget dishing out money to the car makers for **** that doesn't work. That way it will be entirely consumer driven as to whether or not they want to support the local car manufacturers.

that will never work, it makes way too much sense for the government to do that

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

How about put the subsidy in the hands of the consumer by giving a new car buyer a rebate (or make it 5% GST) on the purchase of a car made or assembled in Australia. Forget dishing out money to the car makers for **** that doesn't work. That way it will be entirely consumer driven as to whether or not they want to support the local car manufacturers.

The price of a Falcodore will do up to match the discount/rebate.

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by dddd

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

[GASWAGON]

Bloody hell its out of control all these BIG payrises and the you help me i'll help you crap!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Bundy

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

congrats man !!!! you've single handedly just showed all the anti union morons how credible and uneducated they are . well done .

[BroadyFord]

The future of Australia's car industry will be determined next Friday:

Holden's future up to workers


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226690478180

CARMAKER Holden's 1200-strong Victorian workforce may decide the company's manufacturing future in Australia when it votes on a revised workplace agreement for factory workers in Adelaide next week.

Employees from both states will vote on a varied enterprise bargaining agreement for workers at Holden's northern Adelaide factory next week. The issue is dividing the South Australian workforce.

Australian Manufacturing Workers Union South Australian secretary John Camillo has said a "no" vote next Friday would see the company close its plant at Elizabeth in northern Adelaide in 2016, regardless of any extra financial assistance secured from federal and state governments.

While the changes to the EBA affect only the Elizabeth workforce, a vote of all employees covered under the agreement will take place to determine whether to accept the changes.

Holden employs about 1700 workers at Elizabeth and a further 1200 in Victoria, where the workforce has a lower rate of union membership.

Mr Camillo said the Elizabeth workforce was split "about 50-50" on whether to accept the revised EBA, which will deliver $15m in savings to Holden after more than a month of negotiations over 43 separate claims by the company.

"I honestly believe that if we don't get the flexibility that they want, they will close down."

He said he was concerned that if Victorian workers did not support the revised EBA, it could be voted down.

[BHDOGS]

Ah yes those evil unions always ruining things for the boss man if only they'd follow Americas lead and realize millionaires are job creators! we would be an economic power house oh wait!.haha

[KIWI-1]

I take it that in the period referred to in the article the workers agreed to forgo the wage rises built into their EBA (not).

[fte50]

Ahh, the same crap back/forth, workers this unions that, just like yourself, im betting that 99% of all Aussies in the workforce accept a pay rise of sorts -
WHY??? Are they pro militant unionists ??? Do they want to bring down their employer ???

Answer - No to all the above, 99% of cases they deserve it.
To not seek / aspire to a better outcome in your life is failing your children & family.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by fte50

Ahh, the same crap back/forth, workers this unions that, just like yourself, im betting that 99% of all Aussies in the workforce accept a pay rise of sorts -
WHY??? Are they pro militant unionists ??? Do they want to bring down their employer ???

Answer - No to all the above, 99% of cases they deserve it.
To not seek / aspire to a better outcome in your life is failing your children & family.

of course 3% increase would be known as whats called keeping level with inflation . certainly not seeking an increase . anyway i've had enough of trying to explain things to people who arent sure how many fingers they have . many people love a race to the bottom , those ones are usually leading the race , and they lead by example , have the elite radio announcers patting them on the back on the way . nough said from me .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

The future of Australia's car industry will be determined next Friday:

Holden's future up to workers


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226690478180

CARMAKER Holden's 1200-strong Victorian workforce may decide the company's manufacturing future in Australia when it votes on a revised workplace agreement for factory workers in Adelaide next week.

Employees from both states will vote on a varied enterprise bargaining agreement for workers at Holden's northern Adelaide factory next week. The issue is dividing the South Australian workforce.

Australian Manufacturing Workers Union South Australian secretary John Camillo has said a "no" vote next Friday would see the company close its plant at Elizabeth in northern Adelaide in 2016, regardless of any extra financial assistance secured from federal and state governments.

While the changes to the EBA affect only the Elizabeth workforce, a vote of all employees covered under the agreement will take place to determine whether to accept the changes.

Holden employs about 1700 workers at Elizabeth and a further 1200 in Victoria, where the workforce has a lower rate of union membership.

Mr Camillo said the Elizabeth workforce was split "about 50-50" on whether to accept the revised EBA, which will deliver $15m in savings to Holden after more than a month of negotiations over 43 separate claims by the company.

"I honestly believe that if we don't get the flexibility that they want, they will close down."

He said he was concerned that if Victorian workers did not support the revised EBA, it could be voted down.

I think thats BS that the workers in Victoria can vote and effect the outcome of something that is mainly effecting SA's plant.

I think regardless of the pay cut or not, Holden will close its doors, they're just trying to bully and intimidate everyone into accepting less conditions so that it doesn't cost them as much to pay everyone out.

How about they cut their sponsorship deals to AFL/NRL and stop funding V8 Supercars, how much money is going into that?

From the above link with management getting pay rises, but they want the guy on the bottom to take the hit? Who is the real villain here, AMWU or senior management?

Fair enough on the pay freeze, no worries I would accept that, but hell no to losing redundancy entitlements.

[ratter]

business's need to advertise!

[burnz]

trim the fat off the top, do they really need that much middle management?

[jpd80]

Most of the workers now left at Holden are long term with potentially large redundancy payouts,
It seems interesting that these people stand to lose the most in order to save their jobs.

The greatest fear must be agreeing to changes and then losing most of their redundancy
entitlements when Holden does eventually close.

These workers have seen Holden through some tought times on half work-half pay
because Holden couldn't afford redundancies when the parent was in bankruptcy.

I just hope that all this uncertainty ends soon.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ratter

business's need to advertise!

So advertise on TV, how can you justify spending all that money when you're losing so much everywhere else?

Its like their budget must be 90% on marketing, big dollar sponsorships everywhere.

[ratter]

little kids that follow Collingwood, will most likely have a footy jumper, it will have the Holden name on it, they will grow up knowing Holden, they probably don't pay attention to car adds on TV. Some of these kids will grow up being brain washed to Holden, that's how advertising works, doesn't care if people like or hate it, as long as people notice it.

They obviously believe they get value for money from the advertising they partake in, and they would have done their research

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Bundy

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

Firstly, I agree that Holden management is setting a terrible example with the pay rises they have given themselves in this particular case. However, I notice from that same article that it would appear Holden is in the minority nowadays when it comes to management spending, noting that most large companies have in fact reined in their management spending.

As for your comment “If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice”. As Australia is a very young country and simply doesn’t have the associated population problems of these countries, it would be very safe to say, that even without the unions, we wouldn’t end up working in those conditions for a “bowl of rice” as you suggested.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting there is no place for unions, what I am saying is that the unions have changed massively over the years to the point they are now a political party (the labour party) and have very little in common with the unions of say 20-30 years ago.

An example. Nowadays a large percentage of labour party delegates are ex union heavies and it has basically got to the point where to get to any position of power within the labour party today you have to have this union back ground. Just about all of Gillard’s front bench were ex union and I would assume most of Rudd’s current front bench are ex union.

Another example of unions running the labour party, the deal Rudd did recently with caucus and the unions to protect himself from being rolled if he should win the next election. The trade off was that the unions get to choose his entire front bench should he win. This current union domination is also the same reason why the labour party is so different today as say during the Hawke and Keating period.

In my opinion, the way the unions treat Australian workers nowadays reminds me of an old cartoon I once read. It was set on a farm in the USA just before thanksgiving, all the farmyard animals were complaining and questioning the turkey as to why he gets fed three times more than all the rest of them, the turkey with a smug smile replies “because I’m special that’s why”.

The point I’m making is that Australia is part of a global market whether we like it or not, and as we already have amongst the best, if not the best working conditions in the world, how can we continually demand more and more and expect the country to remain competitive. The unions wanting to keep membership up (like political parties) are all too willing to tell us what we want to hear i.e. we’re special and deserve more.

A couple of points of interest of where I see the country heading.

Six years ago Australia had the second cheapest electricity in the world, today we are the second dearest. When you consider cheap power was the only advantage Australian manufacturing had over the rest of the world, it worries me considerably.

Six years ago Australia had no debt and thirty billion in the bank, today the federal government is about to lift the debt ceiling to over three hundred billion and Australia has the world’s fastest growing debt.

I just wish the unions had stuck to what they were originally formed to do and not grown that power hungry to the point of running the whole country.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by dddd

As for your comment “If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice”. As Australia is a very young country and simply doesn’t have the associated population problems of these countries, it would be very safe to say, that even without the unions, we wouldn’t end up working in those conditions for a “bowl of rice” as you suggested..

Funny that, when you consider the 457 scenario and all the foreign labour of late that are willing and do work for less. It has in fact brought our wages down across many sectors of industry.

Originally Posted by dddd

A couple of points of interest of where I see the country heading.

Six years ago Australia had the second cheapest electricity in the world, today we are the second dearest. When you consider cheap power was the only advantage Australian manufacturing had over the rest of the world, it worries me considerably.

Six years ago Australia had no debt and thirty billion in the bank, today the federal government is about to lift the debt ceiling to over three hundred billion and Australia has the world’s fastest growing debt.

I just wish the unions had stuck to what they were originally formed to do and not grown that power hungry to the point of running the whole country.

Well despite who's in control, be it ALP or LIB, the biggest union of all always has and always will run the country - The AIG.

[gtfpv]

cant help myself here . it was the unions ( ie: union means people getting together ) and forming a collective . WHO GOT US THE WORKING CONDITIONS THAT WE HAVE TODAY . before that people were working like they do in the 3rd world countries . it isnt safe to say that we have the best conditions in the world , therefore we will keep them wether we . ( a bunch of people ) will keep them , by not staying together as a bunch of people . the thing both parties have trouble doing is getting big business to pay tax !!!! . this is not an easy task seeing that we now have Global competition .
wether any party likes it or nopt . we still have a country with 22 000 000 million people in it that people around the world aspire to live in and look up to . that has to say something for people as a whole . ie unions . lets not forget the word union isnt dirty . it means collective of people dictating our way of life ( not the other way around) doctors do it . managers do it , corperations do it , workers do it , and military does it .
we run with majorities , and that gets us to where we are . it's called collective unionism . democracy .

there are always smarter people out there with the ability to manipulate the system and rort it , in crime , in fraud , and in sytematic business .
the people as a whole monitor this and they hate it , but it works . at the end of the day the strength is always in the numbers . the numbers never let the majortiy down . in some cases they do ( normally in fascism ) fear . but thats another topic .
inb my opinion . the majortiy at holden will vote and dictate the outcome .
this will flow on and have consequences for all , as many will be watching , it may flow onto other industries how they decide to go , and at the end of the day , it will effect the country either way .

[fte50]

Agree on all the above bar one point.... The chiefs in Detroit have already dictated Holdens fate as far back in 2009.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by fte50

Agree on all the above bar one point.... The chiefs in Detroit have already dictated Holdens fate as far back in 2009.

thats why i say VOTE NO . do not vote for any paycuts or reductions at all .
let other countries deal with the struggle and get to where we are , not us scale down to them . big business wont be able to maniupulate other countries with us setting the bar high , but if we lower the bar . then theres gets lowered also .

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

cant help myself here . it was the unions ( ie: union means people getting together ) and forming a collective . WHO GOT US THE WORKING CONDITIONS THAT WE HAVE TODAY . before that people were working like they do in the 3rd world countries .

I agree that once upon a time the unions had their place and helped people better their working conditions against greedy treacherous employers and to fight exploitation.
But is that really what is happening here? C'mon.
IMO, this is a simple case of the unions trying to justify their existence.
A company has declared that they will not continue under their current financial situation... What has the union possibly got to gain for its members by forcing a standoff resulting in the company shutting its doors?
Anyone who backs the union position on this is very short sighted I'm afraid.
And please, I'm honestly not looking for an argument here. I just can't see any alternative outcome but the obvious, if the union doesn't put aside its only greedy agenda and focus on the best interests of its members; the people who will lose their livelihoods.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I agree that once upon a time the unions had their place and helped people better their working conditions against greedy treacherous employers and to fight exploitation.
But is that really what is happening here? C'mon.
IMO, this is a simple case of the unions trying to justify their existence.
A company has declared that they will not continue under their current financial situation... What has the union possibly got to gain for its members by forcing a standoff resulting in the company shutting its doors?
Anyone who backs the union position on this is very short sighted I'm afraid.
And please, I'm honestly not looking for an argument here. I just can't see any alternative outcome but the obvious, if the union doesn't put aside its only greedy agenda and focus on the best interests of its members; the people who will lose their livelihoods.

Can employees trust that Holden is staying after the reduction in wages ?

I think they are thinking the same thoughts I am.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Can employees trust that Holden is staying after the reduction in wages ?

I think they are thinking the same thoughts I am.

I guess that's the $200M question. There is no guarantees in life unfortunately.
But a union standoff does give Holden an out and may result in an earlier closure.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Can employees trust that Holden is staying after the reduction in wages ?

I think they are thinking the same thoughts I am.

Is GM about to pick the pockets of its long term employees before finally kicking them to the kerb...

Think Tomorrow....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Is GM about to pick the pockets of its long term employees before finally kicking them to the kerb...

I think so John.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I guess that's the $200M question. There is no guarantees in life unfortunately.
But a union standoff does give Holden an out and may result in an earlier closure.

And if you do your sums and risk analysis maybe you take the punt !

[stazza]

Let 'em burn. Maybe then we can all live in peace and harmony, and log on to a Ford forum confidently knowing there will be nary a Holden thread to be seen.