Aussies dead in Shot down plane crash over Ukraine.

[karj]

What do you want Obama to do cheap? Openly declare war on Russia?

They are already, arguably, involved in a proxy war anyway.

There are certainly some parallels between the current Russian situation and pre-WW2 Nazi Germany and we may be on the unfortunate and inevitable path to war, but the reality is that both the US and Russia are now nuclear-armed superpowers and the stakes are correspondingly higher.

By all means though, keep living in your own little world where everything is Obama's fault... including apparently a Russian-backed militia shooting down an Asian airliner in Europe with mainly European casualties.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by cheap

Yep peace loving Russians (sarc), they do have prior form with the shooting down of civilian airliners, KAL007 back n 1983 and now MH17. Back in 1983 the US had a president who stood up to the Russians, these days the US is led by a president who is as impotent as he is clueless. Obama's 2 greatest achievements are to send the US broke and winning the Nobel peace prize for doing nothing. Green light signals for the Russians and terrorists to do what they want.

Still the world watches as a once peaceful Ukraine gets smashed by the Russian army disguised as "rebels". History has a habit of repeating itself, Si vis pacem, para bellum

Condolences to all the family and friends impacted by this tragic event.

As it stands Australia has lost more citizens to this tragedy than the US, why doesn't your Govt do something. You have fighter jets capable of taking out a SAM launcher don't you.

[Maka]

My sincerest condolences to all families involved in this extremely sad & tragic incident that took place in eastern Ukraine the other day, there were many peace loving people on that plane that were trying to make the world a better place only to be taken away from their loved ones, the passengers did not deserve any of this nor did their families.

I can only hope that justice is swift & the truth fully transparent - these victims surely at least deserves this.

cheers, Maka

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

As it stands Australia has lost more citizens to this tragedy than the US, why doesn't your Govt do something. You have fighter jets capable of taking out a SAM launcher don't you.

My government is doing something, it appears this morning Abbott has grown some balls and has been reported as having made the most vocal and direct stance of all world leaders against this tragedy.
I don't think anyone is going in there with force.... At least not just yet.

MH17 crash: Russia furious at 'unacceptable' Tony Abbott comments

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...719-zuq68.html

[nstg8a]

I think it's interesting that Ukraine has so much evidence pointing to the rebels so quickly, phone intercepts bragging about it, surveillance video of a missile launcher missing one missile heading back to russia.
It's all falling into place very conveniently.

Ukraine has these weapons too, and arguably are the only ones that have anything to gain by shooting down a passenger jet.

Maybe I'm just jaded by western media, but it just seems too obvious that it's rebels.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I think it's interesting that Ukraine has so much evidence pointing to the rebels so quickly, phone intercepts bragging about it, surveillance video of a missile launcher missing one missile heading back to russia.
It's all falling into place very conveniently.

You don't think the Ukranian forces would monitor/eavesdrop on their enemies communications.

Wake up man!

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Ukraine has these weapons too, and arguably are the only ones that have anything to gain by shooting down a passenger jet.

Maybe I'm just jaded by western media, but it just seems too obvious that it's rebels.

There are no Ukraine military in that area, it is controlled by rebels and is a stones throw from the Russian border. What would they gain by it ?

[Franco Cozzo]

Mistaken identity maybe? Hit the wrong plane?

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by cheap

Yep peace loving Russians (sarc), they do have prior form with the shooting down of civilian airliners, KAL007 back n 1983 and now MH17. Back in 1983 the US had a president who stood up to the Russians, these days the US is led by a president who is as impotent as he is clueless. Obama's 2 greatest achievements are to send the US broke and winning the Nobel peace prize for doing nothing. Green light signals for the Russians and terrorists to do what they want.

Still the world watches as a once peaceful Ukraine gets smashed by the Russian army disguised as "rebels". History has a habit of repeating itself, Si vis pacem, para bellum

Condolences to all the family and friends impacted by this tragic event.

You have to remember the Americans don't have a squeaky clean record here either. There was a huge cover-up when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian Airlines A300 airbus in Iranian territory over the Persian Gulf killing all 290 on board. This was on the 3 Jul 1988. The crew of the ship even got medals for their actions.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

You don't think the Ukranian forces would monitor/eavesdrop on their enemies communications.

Wake up man!



There are no Ukraine military in that area, it is controlled by rebels and is a stones throw from the Russian border. What would they gain by it ?

Make Russia look bad, or the rumours of Vladdy flying that route in a similar plane.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

You have to remember the Americans don't have a squeaky clean record here either. There was a huge cover-up when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian Airlines A300 airbus in Iranian territory over the Persian Gulf killing all 290 on board. This was on the 3 Jul 1988. The crew of the ship even got medals for their actions.

I don't think there was a cover up at all, the Iranian flight 655/Vincennes disaster was fully reported and investigated. Plenty of lessons were learnt that day by not just the USN.
The medals received by many of the crew were not directly linked to the downing of flight 655, they were for their tours of duty.
There are not a lot of parallels between this incident and MH17 except the outcome was a commercial aircraft being shot down.

[sleek7]

Just want to point out that number of Aus victims (28) will likely rise in the coming days. I found out this morning that a family in the same area as me was on that flight and they would have been travelling with foreign passports which would explain why they weren't immediately identified as Australian...they also had their 3 children with them...

[Trump]

Not sure how real this is, video of the plane being shot down:

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...o-2995040.html

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Not sure how real this is, video of the plane being shot down:

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...o-2995040.html

Looks legit, but it definitely hasn't broken up in midair, looks like it is plummeting intact after taking the missile on the right wing.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Make Russia look bad, or the rumours of Vladdy flying that route in a similar plane.

No it would make them look bad if found out (ie not worth the risk), and if they shot down Putin's plane (if it was even nearby) Russia would wipe them of the face of the earth.

[buggerlugs]

That is shocking............. I hope the passengers were gone before that decent..........

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by Cashie

I don't think there was a cover up at all, the Iranian flight 655/Vincennes disaster was fully reported and investigated. Plenty of lessons were learnt that day by not just the USN.
The medals received by many of the crew were not directly linked to the downing of flight 655, they were for their tours of duty.
There are not a lot of parallels between this incident and MH17 except the outcome was a commercial aircraft being shot down.

Initially the USN claimed the Vincennes was under direct threat from a Iranian F14. What took America three years to admit was the Vincennes was in Iranian waters 40 miles away from where the ship was supposed to be. In short, they shot down an Iranian aircraft in Iranian airspace from Iranian waters!! There were also varying accounts from the same personnel over exactly what happened.
Lutsig the air war fare co-ordinator was awarded the Naval Commendation Medal. His medal citation read 'quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure'.

[CoupeKing]

They may have passed out with a descent like that. Not sure what the Geforce would be, but some planes have be known to break the sound barrier from a nose-dive, especially if the engine/s are still functioning.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

Initially the USN claimed the Vincennes was under direct threat from a Iranian F14. What took America three years to admit was the Vincennes was in Iranian waters 40 miles away from where the ship was supposed to be. In short, they shot down an Iranian aircraft in Iranian airspace from Iranian waters!! There were also varying accounts from the same personnel over exactly what happened.
Lutsig the air war fare co-ordinator was awarded the Naval Commendation Medal. His medal citation read 'quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure'.

There was a mixup of IFF replies when the Iranian F14s replies shadowed the airliner on the ground. The ship was also under a simultaneous surface attack by gunboats. There were many mistakes made that day in the operations room, having working in a similar environment, I can relate totally to what occurred and how different personal recalled differing events. The actions and position of the ship were easily verified when the Aegis logs were downloaded during the investigation.... In summary lots went wrong.
The US governments tardy acknowledgement of events was due to the policitical situation in the region at the time, sadly politics dictates the actions of the worlds powers as I am sure will again happen with MH17.

Lustig's medal was reportedly for

The ship's weapons and combat systems officer, Lt. Cmdr. Scott E. Lustig, was granted two Navy Commendation Medals, Quigley said.
One award was for his ''meritorious service'' during his May 1984 to December 1988 tour aboard the cruiser. The second was in recognition of his role during an engagement with seven Iranian gunboats in the Persian Gulf on July 3, 1988.

I do agree though, awarding him a medal after what went down was probably in very bad taste and poor form.

[cheap]

I'm wondering how long it will be before civilliam aircraft get fitted out with a suite of countermeasures or have fighter escorts patrolling air corridors.

[ivandrago]

It will happen once the middle eastern terrorists start being supplied the same weapons no aircraft will be safe

[motomk]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Not sure how real this is, video of the plane being shot down:

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...o-2995040.html

I have read elsewhere that might be one of the Ukrainian planes that has been shot down in the past few weeks.

[ivandrago]

http://www.9news.com.au/World/2014/0...H17-crash-site

One of the black boxes has been recovered by russian soldiers no i mean the mercenarys being paid whoops i meant the separatists and has been sent to moscow for editing i mean "examination"

[cheap]

In this tit for tat world even more reason not to be flying with Aeroflot. There will be payback, there always is.

[cornflakes8]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Some of those videos are messed up. Sickening stuff there. Anyone curious to look, be warned, it's not nice.

Those raw images of the aftermath really puts into perspective how ****** up this whole thing is. :(

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by motomk

I have read elsewhere that might be one of the Ukrainian planes that has been shot down in the past few weeks.

Yep your right....

Published on Jun 6, 2014
A Ukrainian military An-30 reconnaissance plane carried on flying after being hit when flying over Slavyansk on Friday afternoon. Anti-Kiev militia say they hit the An-30 with an anti-aircraft missile.

The right-hand engine of the plane caught on fire but this did not prevent the aircraft from continuing its flight. Footage shows it disappearing into the horizon.

Unconfirmed reports say the aircraft crashed somewhere between Nikolaevka and Krasny Liman, near the Golubie Ozera region. Those on board had reportedly parachuted from the plane.

[nstg8a]

There's reports now of the crash site being looted, this is reprehensible, and they really need to take proper control there.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by cornflakes8

Those raw images of the aftermath really puts into perspective how f-cked up this whole thing is. :(

You know.. That's the truth!
Bombings, terrorism, or a tragedy like this... We seem to become "conditioned" to these events..
Maybe we actually NEED to see the sheer horror of the aftermath to really appreciate the gravity of what's occurred?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by cornflakes8

Those raw images of the aftermath really puts into perspective how f-cked up this whole thing is. :(

It's the images of the dead that are the issue. I shouldn't have looked. But now I have it in my memory.

[Thornie]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Yep your right....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Igx2JRelc this ones being going around on reddit showing a buk sam launcher being transported with 2 missiles missing from it. how true it is I wouldn't know, there it a HD version somewhere but the title is in russian.

[ivandrago]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-1...border/5608744

The latest from the front lines of russias proxy war