Why 130km/h makes sense for the Hume Highway

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by joolz

Speed limits will never be raised again. Either stay the same or decrease as they already are. IMO the Governments give out licenses too easy and for a reason. They see the 12 points as revenue. Why do you think if you recieve a fine its always your surname first in capitals, Its virtually a business name generated by the Government and you are paying your fees!!

Yes......... the Straw Man......... I know it well.

(for those who don't know, google it)

[Trevor 57]

I love the fact that all these posters are critising the same system (or poorer if you go back a while) that gave them a licence.

You survived, why can't others

I have worked in the licencing field, I have issued HV licences for a private provider

I have worked as a driver trainer and taken learner car drivers for their licence at Vicroads.

Yet we have all the experts commenting about how poor the licencing systems is, how about all you lot tell us about how you got your licence and how much "better" the system for licencing was when you got your licence.

Some live in fantasy land

[SPArKy_Dave]

Can't speak for others, but all my licence test got me, was the credit card sized bit of plastic, with my details on it.

Most of my experience came (and still comes) from observation and decision making, practicing driving to the conditions, like keeping appropriate distance from the car in front, etc, etc
and driving within the vehicles capabilities, which ever one I'm driving at the time.

Getting my licence consisted of driving around the back roads of Healesville with the Vicroads tester for about 10mins.
Turn left here, go down there, etc etc.

If I hadn't done a reverse park in Main St, (without the tester asking), I wouldn't have even been tested on any form of parking.

No three point turn, no nuth'n.
The tester actually said, 'you didn't have to do that', as I stopped to reverse park.
His final words were, 'just keep doing what your doing, and you'll do well'.
End of test.

[Trevor 57]

I rest my case, you learnt from experience like all the others on here

But they harpoon every licence tester in Australia, but they got their licences the same way or worse than what the young people of today do

A time to remind the readers of some 'facts'

1970 road toll - Victoria only - 1061 dead
2011 road toll - Victoria only - 289 dead

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I love the fact that all these posters are critising the same system that gave them a licence.

couldn't agree more.

as for the hume, admittedly i've only driven on it a few times and i must say there are stretches that you could comfortably drive at higher speed for long periods of time, but its not about the road. its about the drivers. until drivers display a much higher level of awareness and courteousness etc, no agency (govt or otherwise) would even consider raising the limits.

last trip on the hume was a friday night so there was traffic like peak hour and all doing 110. no bigger gaps between cars or anything. everyone driving like they were bunched up in a 25 zone, but all doing 110.

the facts are, put a 130 sign there and there will always be people who believe they have to do that speed at all times or as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Big Trev

But what do MOST think about, they think about texting their mates, ******* around with the Ipod, they think about getting on the **** on the weekend and rooting their mates girlfriend/boyfriend, they talk on the phone, they plan what they are going to order at Macca's at Wallan and how many people are going to be there, they think about getting overtaken by that P.O.S. VN Commodore, etc,etc,etc,

^^^this. some drivers have way too much going on in the cabin.

[JohnK2201]

Alright, so a lot of my wording hasn't come out right so far so I'll put it this way.
I agree with what you 2 are saying, there are a lot of parts of the roads which could be upgraded but with drivers the way they are these days this won't happen for many years to come.
Roads these days are designed to save the lives of those people who deem it necessary to text message, talk on the phone, change that song on their ipod or just not pay attention to the road. It is because of these people that speed limits will not increase. I don't believe that they give out licences to easily, I believe it comes down to once people get their P's, they feel fearless and this is what makes it dangerous.
I think all learners and p-platers should be made to do a defensive driving course, this is coming from a p-plater because I believe it would help massively

But like someone said, Drive To The Conditions

[prydey]

Originally Posted by JohnK2201

I think all learners and p-platers should be made to do a defensive driving course, this is coming from a p-plater because I believe it would help massively

can't agree on that. there will always be an element that will think that makes them even more like schumacher (or vettel).

the trouble makers are a minority. they just get more airtime.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by prydey

can't agree on that. there will always be an element that will think that makes them even more like schumacher (or vettel).

the trouble makers are a minority. they just get more airtime.

i think overall that making everyone do a defensive driving course every 3-10 years would be a good idea
i do understand that some would then think they are more invincible than they once thought, but i get the impression, they will be the morons anyway

i personally think that young kids should be taught how to drive defensively and regain control of a car, because every kid will lose control of their car at sometime. most of those will not gain control until the car stops - sometimes that is against an object. hitting an object is a hard lesson to learn, particularly if they were given the right training, they may have avoided it

[joolz]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Yes......... the Straw Man......... I know it well.

(for those who don't know, google it)

http://www.yourstrawman.com/

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by flappist

As you are a designer in training I can only tell you one thing:

GO OUT AND DRIVE ON THE ROADS.

Not just around Sydney or a short hop to Newcastle or just once to the QLD or VIC border but.....

GO OUT AND DRIVE ON THE ROADS.

Theory is absolute crap. The mere suggestion that cars doing 100km/h on 100km/h roads take 3 hours to do 300km and increasing the limit to 110 will only save 15 minutes shows you have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER.

GO OUT AND DRIVE ON THE ROADS.

If I ran NSW (or any other state) transport departments I would distribute the offices all over the state and make every single senior planner drive by themselves between offices on a regular basis so they get to actually understand that the roads have people on them not computer models and people are human so are affected by a plethora of influences not just speed cameras and BAC. Sitting in an office in Sydney looking at numbers on a computer screen and basing policy on revenue and politically driven agenda is almost culpable.

GO OUT AND DRIVE ON THE ROADS.

You may find that all the theory is just that.......theory......

Sometimes don't you get a feeling that there is a prevalent way of thinking in an organisation and you convince yourself it isn't true, they must be more professional than that? Then unexpectedly a voice comes out of the organisation confirming your worst fears and dashing all your hopes.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by JohnK2201

Also, most won't like this and most of us within the RTA are like it, they are in the near future (can't give a time frame but i know its within the next couple of years), they will be getting rid of 70 and 90kmh speed zones and they will most likely be dropped to 60 and 80 respecitvely.

Hmm, it's a good thing that we don't have an RTA in NSW any more then

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i think overall that making everyone do a defensive driving course every 3-10 years would be a good idea
i do understand that some would then think they are more invincible than they once thought, but i get the impression, they will be the morons anyway

Have you read all my posts, I will give you a tip go back and read them and listen to the experience of a defensive trainer with training experience dating back to 1987.

all I will say is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't force them drink"

I have had some fantastic success with defensive training and I have some failures, what makes the difference, "the nut behind the wheel"!!!!!!

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i personally think that young kids should be taught how to drive defensively and regain control of a car, because every kid will lose control of their car at sometime. most of those will not gain control until the car stops - sometimes that is against an object. hitting an object is a hard lesson to learn, particularly if they were given the right training, they may have avoided it

I have a better idea than learning how to control a skid, how about learning HOW NOT TO GET INTO A SKID TO START WITH FFS, why give a cure when you can stop them getting the disease.

You quote is one of my great frustations, people who think "controlling a skid" is defensive driving, it has **** all to do with 'proper' driver training.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

If YOU have been trained properly and are such a good driver, then DRIVE TO THE CONDTIONS. I do all the time. In the rain I think carefully about how good my tyres on the 2010 Ranger are, I think about the potential diesel on the bitumen, I think about reduced visibility, I think about idiots who don't think about the things I am thinking about, there are a miriad of things to think about. But what do MOST think about, they think about texting their mates, ******* around with the Ipod, they think about getting on the **** on the weekend and rooting their mates girlfriend/boyfriend, they talk on the phone, they plan what they are going to order at Macca's at Wallan and how many people are going to be there, they think about getting overtaken by that P.O.S. VN Commodore, etc,etc,etc,

I spend 80% of my time on rural roads.

Australia is NEVER going to have the infrastructure of Europe coz we don't have the tax payer base to support it, move on, get over it, build a bridge or what ever else they say.

Everyone blames everything, but the thing they should be blaming is the face in the mirror

YOU DO NOT drive to conditions Trev, don't even pretend you do.

How often do you do 160km/h (or even 130km/h) in Victoria on a road that is capable of 160km/h in clear weather in a vehicle that is designed to do 160km/h safely where there is no or little other traffic?

NEVER?

THAT is driving to conditions NOT following a revenue driven speed limit.

Yes when the conditions are crap then slowing down is the safe and sensible thing to do but the magic number on the sign is NEVER the maximum safe speed for all vehicles in all conditions.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

YOU DO NOT drive to conditions Trev, don't even pretend you do.

How often do you do 160km/h (or even 130km/h) in Victoria on a road that is capable of 160km/h in clear weather in a vehicle that is designed to do 160km/h safely where there is no or little other traffic?

NEVER?

THAT is driving to conditions NOT following a revenue driven speed limit.

Yes when the conditions are crap then slowing down is the safe and sensible thing to do but the magic number on the sign is NEVER the maximum safe speed for all vehicles in all conditions.

Bingo!

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by flappist

YOU DO NOT drive to conditions Trev, don't even pretend you do.

How often do you do 160km/h (or even 130km/h) in Victoria on a road that is capable of 160km/h in clear weather in a vehicle that is designed to do 160km/h safely where there is no or little other traffic?

NEVER?

All the time, at Winton, Sandown, Phillip Island Race Tracks

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I rest my case, you learnt from experience like all the others on here

But they harpoon every licence tester in Australia, but they got their licences the same way or worse than what the young people of today do

A time to remind the readers of some 'facts'

1970 road toll - Victoria only - 1061 dead
2011 road toll - Victoria only - 289 dead

Which has nothing to do with the improvement is safety technology in motor vehicles has it?

Can you show me the figures of people killed in Victoria in Hybrid cars in 1970 vs 2011, I suspect their will be a HUGE increase.

Nice try Dr Spin.......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

All the time, at Winton, Sandown, Phillip Island Race Tracks

So you are pretending that a closed race track is a road? Again....nice try Dr. Spin....

[Trevor 57]

I never pretended to be hiding behind statistis, obviously there is a whole range of reasons that have improved the road toll and ONE of those is the quality of the licencing regime as well as the car technology, etc, etc, etc.

I was making the point in relation to licence testing, but you have dragged in other things

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by flappist

So you are pretending that a closed race track is a road? Again....nice try Dr. Spin....

You said Victorian roads not me

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I never pretended to be hiding behind statistis, obviously there is a whole range of reasons that have improved the road toll and ONE of those is the quality of the licencing regime as well as the car technology, etc, etc, etc.

I was making the point in relation to licence testing, but you have dragged in other things

As far as license testing being insufficient, those who went through the tests had no choice as that was the only test. I wonder if the road toll would have been lower for the last 20 years if we had a system like Finland?

Of course Victoria would have gone broke several times......which is the major reason why we have safety cams instead of safety instruction.....

[JohnK2201]

Originally Posted by flappist

YOU DO NOT drive to conditions Trev, don't even pretend you do.

How often do you do 160km/h (or even 130km/h) in Victoria on a road that is capable of 160km/h in clear weather in a vehicle that is designed to do 160km/h safely where there is no or little other traffic?

NEVER?

THAT is driving to conditions NOT following a revenue driven speed limit.

Yes when the conditions are crap then slowing down is the safe and sensible thing to do but the magic number on the sign is NEVER the maximum safe speed for all vehicles in all conditions.

Right on the ball there mate. Thats exactly right

[JohnK2201]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Hmm, it's a good thing that we don't have an RTA in NSW any more then

Yea you knew what I meant. RTA or
RMS, what ever you want to call it. In theory we still have an RTA because all motor registries are still marked as RTA