Toyota 86 price $29,990!

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Mate I mostly feel like its Toyota marketing hype at its best ... I mean just like Holden Toyota is really good at marketing their cars all over the world ... the even ran an F1 team just for that and after about 10 years of miserable failure they pulled out ...

I'm not saying that the 86 is a bad car, I just can't see the whole tuning scene being a reality when the car is based on a high tuned NA with a small light gearbox and most likely lightweight drive train bits.

When new GTRs / EVOs / STIs come out there was turbo bolt upgrades / ets kits on available practically on day one ... with the 86 so far I all seen is hype

Yes good points and you might be right. Time will tell!

[Polyal]

Yeah but you cant compare the 86 to those cars, different class IMO. If it was a supra then yeah I would agree.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by mcnews

If you read the article it is hardly slammed.

A tip for you, covers of magazines are designed to attract attention and sell magazines, that is their only design criteria, it needs bare no resemblance to the correct summation of the content inside. If you only read headlines and front covers, then you miss the story.

Headlines, opening paragraphs and front pages are designed to draw in, shock, or attract attention and sell mags.

Richard Meaden concludes his test of the BRZ with: "this car feels like very much like a triumph of hype over horsepower... it's the inconvient truth." (p85). This compliments and justifies the cover.

They lament the lack of power, hoping STI can inject some, and that may make it a better car (at a higher price) - though I'd take the new Focus ST over it any day...

And I'd take EVOs word over any keyboard warrior: these guys drive hundreds if cars (on proper long term tests too) and EVO has a circulation only Wheels could dream about.

[dimka100]

I think the car looks great, and the interior is functional and seems like it has a nice supportive seat with an excellent driving position ... From the outside the car looks good, it's certainly looking very modern and has all that LED/HID bling (GTS model) ... watching the videos the handling seems great, it does look a bit under tyred and hence easily slides but its nothing that can't be changed with a bit more rear tyre ...

But my biggest disappointment is the engine, I mean I'm not saying that cars need to have Tyre frying performance at every gear but I'm at least expecting some level of reasonable acceleration to match a common car on the road. With the 86 the engine is simply too underdone, taxis will blow it of the lights, midsized V6 family Camry's (Aurions) will leave you for dust, hell even many decent 4wds these days will keep you behind ... sorry but i just can't for the life of me call that a sports car ...

I know this car was built to be enjoyed on a winding road, but unfortunately most of us don't live near a touge track, and driving around the major cities we all mostly see straight roads with lots of traffic around ... drifting is just not part of our daily driving routine ...

[69Mach1]

Just wondering what Subaru will do with BRZ price? I can't see how they can price it too much higher given it's the same car. Maybe if its got more fruit (bigger wheels, better sound system, etc) they might command a few more dollars, but how much, a few grand tops? It will be intersting to see how they price it as they risk customer simply walking across the road. I suppose Subaru has a slightly more prestigous brand than Toyota but for the same car I am not sure they could use it to command a significant premium. Time will tell....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Richard Meaden concludes his test of the BRZ with: "this car feels like very much like a triumph of hype over horsepower... it's the inconvient truth." (p85). This compliments and justifies the cover.

They lament the lack of power, hoping STI can inject some, and that may make it a better car (at a higher price) - though I'd take the new Focus ST over it any day...

And I'd take EVOs word over any keyboard warrior: these guys drive hundreds if cars (on proper long term tests too) and EVO has a circulation only Wheels could dream about.

Unlike yourself? You cant compare the 86 to a FWD hatch, like you cant compare the MX5 with a WRX et al.

Bulk power is not what the car is about, god when is enough power enough anyway? Im sure everything do to with this car is in balance, thats the point, affordable fun motoring.

All these hot hatches now with heaps of power are a hoot, no doubt, but they will never, ever have the balance and poise of a properly sorted RWD sportscar. They can even be quicker around the 'ring, who cares, its just not the point.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 69Mach1

Just wondering what Subaru will do with BRZ price? I can't see how they can price it too much higher given it's the same car. Maybe if its got more fruit (bigger wheels, better sound system, etc) they might command a few more dollars, but how much, a few grand tops? It will be intersting to see how they price it as they risk customer simply walking across the road. I suppose Subaru has a slightly more prestigous brand than Toyota but for the same car I am not sure they could use it to command a significant premium. Time will tell....

Agree 100%..very interesting, because to far over and no one will buy it.

I would not care if the BRZ was better equipped, if I wanted gizmo's I wouldn't buy a $30k to start with.

[EFFalcon]

I think a lot of the power complaints would go away if there was a more powerful variant available.

not everyone wants reasonable power, but some do.
this car seems to be about giving people what they've been asking for... soooooooooooooo

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

I think a lot of the power complaints would go away if there was a more powerful variant available.

not everyone wants reasonable power, but some do.
this car seems to be about giving people what they've been asking for... soooooooooooooo

The car has not really even been released yet (not here). I think it would be a very very safe bet that at some stage a more powerful version will be available. Still the base engine is what it is, unless its FI I dont think bolt ons are going to make a massive difference.

Like FPV and its V8, you dont come out with an inter-cooled version straight up. Give it a year or two, let the competition catch up and then smack them in the head again with a revision.

[Fiesta_Man69]

You can compare the BRZ to the Focus ST on price. An optioned Subaru will be line ball with the Focus, which will be almost 2 secs quicker to 100.

I suggest you go to EVOs website, where there's a video of the BRZ up against the Megane: the comments at the end of the test by the driver are very telling...

[LukeyST]

For those upset by this car 'only' having 147kw, think of it this way, it has a power-weight ratio of 120kw/tonne. This is more than the current XR6 (@ 114kw/tonne) which is more than enough to get you from corner to corner on a proper driving road.

Straight line isn't what this car is about, and if you do want straight line AND handling, expect to pay a lot more than $30k (sti, evo, etc.).

[69Mach1]

I can understand the issue with the power/torque on this car but I guess it depends what you are used to. I have a couple of late model Subarus (so yes maybe I am biased), both with the 2.5 N/A boxer. They both have around 125kW and about 220Nm - they are not fast...and I know this but I do have fun, particularly in the 05 Liberty, the thing handles great (for my ability) and I take pleasure in pressuring or staying ahead of more powerful cars when driving through the mountains or twisty sections.

For me the 86/BRZ offers more power, another 20 odd kW, its lighter by a good 200-300kg, has a lower CoG and is cheaper.....so I guess its all about perspective.

For mine, I dont want to compare 86/BRZ to a Megane or Focus because IMO these are all wrong wheel drive and based on a non-performance base donor car. 86/BRZ is designed for performance from the beginning.......and more powerful versions will come....guaranteed.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Subaru Aus last month categorically ruled out turboed versions of the BRZ coming to Aus (maybe don't want to stuff around with the WRX formula? Who knows)

Anyways, regarding hp, EVO states on p71, that it's "197hp feels too little for the money and too little to make the chassis come alive."

[Polyal]

Do you really buy a car on what someone else thinks?

[trippytaka]

I think all the people complaining about the power should have a look to most models, which come out as a standard base spec with a few goodies built in and then have special models built into them by the factory approved, or owned tuning houses. It's a common development and release strategy during most product life cycles - keep adding bits to a product to string its existence out over 5-10 years.

As far as the 86 is concerned you only need to look at the TRD development of superchargers in the past to imagine what might come... and hope that it does indeed come. Have a look overseas you'll see some amazing little pieces available.

As a side note there aren't too many MX5 or Honda S2000 owners who complained about a lack of power. The market, the mass market, is simply not like us. The majority of people think a Mazda 3 is "zippy" to drive, so an 86 will be more than enough car for them... for what they need, want and can ultimately handle.

I agree that there should be a more powerful version, and I am confident something will pop up in the future.

[flappist]

Ok guys keep it civil. No one here has driven one yet so no one knows what they are like.

As far as magazine reviews, I seem to remember quite a few here casting aspersions on journos so lets all just wait and see eh?

Oh and I have already booked a test drive in an orange manual GT.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh and I have already booked a test drive in an orange manual GT.

Interesting to hear your review.
When's the test drive booked??

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by LukeyST

For those upset by this car 'only' having 147kw, think of it this way, it has a power-weight ratio of 120kw/tonne. This is more than the current XR6 (@ 114kw/tonne) which is more than enough to get you from corner to corner on a proper driving road.

Straight line isn't what this car is about, and if you do want straight line AND handling, expect to pay a lot more than $30k (sti, evo, etc.).

Whats the torque to weight ratio though, thats what makes all the difference. Falcon makes near double the torque and it would be a fair bit quicker as a result, but as you say its not what this car is about. But a supercharger would be a great way to get rid of that torqueless issue.

Apparently the 86 needs 98 RON to make those 147kw too, so run it on 91 or 95 and it would be even slower.

The can keep the price fairly cheap cause basically its a modified RWD Impreza.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by flappist

...Oh and I have already booked a test drive in an orange manual GT.

Sssshhhh you don't want your Z to get nervous. :P
-----------------------------------

More power coming (one day) >
" The Toyota GT 86 (and the Scion FR-S, in the United States) are still months away from dealer showrooms, but Toyota is reportedly well under way with development of a supercharged version.

Not only is a forced-induction model envisioned by the Japanese automaker, but test mules have been built and are currently being evaluated by Toyota Racing Development (TRD).

Autocar explains that Toyota favors supercharging over turbocharging, since it doesn’t impact throttle response the way that an economical, single-turbo system might. Toyota has significant experience with supercharging, as its offered an aftermarket blower kit through TRD for select Toyota models since 1998.

Toyota’s chief engineer, Tetsuo Tada, believes that turbocharging, all-wheel drive and wide tires have made sports cars “boring to drive.” That’s a clear shot across the bow of Subaru, which has extensive experience with both turbocharging and all-wheel drive.

In fact, it’s likely that any faster versions of the Subaru BRZ will rely on turbocharging, not supercharging, for additional power. Subaru has been remarkably tight-lipped about an STI version of its BRZ coupe, but if Toyota is developing a faster GT 86, then it stands to reason that Subaru is, too.

It isn’t yet known if Toyota (and, presumably, Scion) will offer a supercharged GT 86 / FR-S as a showroom model or as an aftermarket (but dealer-installable) TRD kit. Tada won’t say what kind of horsepower the supercharged GT 86s are making, but Toyota has already admitted that the chassis could handle another 50 horsepower without modification. "
source > http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...l-gt-86-report

----------------------------------------
I also saw a video (has since been pulled) of a Jap show (Best Motoring) pitting the FR-Z (Scion version of GT86) , the BRZ and an MX5 on a 3 lap track race.

The MX-5 had a head start and was overtaken on the second lap (it just couldn't keep up). The FR-Z just edged out the BRZ for the win.

source > http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/29/j...twin-ring-mot/

EDIT > I found a copy of the vid >> http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-12...-Toyota-86.htm

[Nikked]

People are forgetting too, that the original AE86 only had 88kw's...and that didn't stop it becomeing one of the most popular/respected sporty cars of the 80's.

Its good that cars like this exsist, it all stems from Colin Chapman's way of thinking.

[4.0i_SiX]

The MX5 isnt really a hairdressers car, its a midlife crisis car. I cant believe people are saying this looks new, fresh and modern. looks like an old hyundai Scoupe had sex with a celica and mr2 to me. its the 2012 Paseo haha

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by LukeyST

For those upset by this car 'only' having 147kw, think of it this way, it has a power-weight ratio of 120kw/tonne. This is more than the current XR6 (@ 114kw/tonne) which is more than enough to get you from corner to corner on a proper driving road.

Straight line isn't what this car is about, and if you do want straight line AND handling, expect to pay a lot more than $30k (sti, evo, etc.).

Got it in one...
Magazines, TV reviews, and online articles always...always...carry on about "power to weight", and compare that power to weight with some other cars power to weight...no mention is ever made of torque. Yes, torque is important...when you have a big heavy car to shift...but smaller cars have never been torque monsters, and especially most of the best smaller sports cars over the years have never been torquers either...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Whats the torque to weight ratio though, thats what makes all the difference. Falcon makes near double the torque and it would be a fair bit quicker as a result, but as you say its not what this car is about. But a supercharger would be a great way to get rid of that torqueless issue.

Apparently the 86 needs 98 RON to make those 147kw too, so run it on 91 or 95 and it would be even slower.

The can keep the price fairly cheap cause basically its a modified RWD Impreza.

Really???

whats the torque ratio of a Kenworth without its load? Most Eu spec cars or sporty Japs all require 98...nothing new there.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Interesting to hear your review.
When's the test drive booked??

As soon as it arrives which they say is in a few days but sales people tend to "embellish".

[Poetic Justice]

I don't believe the wholesale date is until Friday, flappist. Then it could be a matter of days before getting one. Could be lucky and get one of the first despatched, but it's a lucky draw.

[BFYOOT]

Not sure if it was Motor or Wheels, but the April edition had a good readup on either this one or the subaru one (may have even been both) with the article asking certain tuning houses what they could do with it, going from basically stock standard right up to a crazy race car version. Was pretty interesting, and showed that it does have some decent possibilities.

Edit: Ok just went and checked, it was Motor April edition, and it featured both the subaru and toyotas, i.e. the left page was, for example, what STI could add to the car, while the right page was what TRD could add. Was a good read.

[Poetic Justice]

And isn't it on the cover of one of those mags this month or last out-doing a Porsche Boxter around a track?

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Got it in one...
Magazines, TV reviews, and online articles always...always...carry on about "power to weight", and compare that power to weight with some other cars power to weight...no mention is ever made of torque. Yes, torque is important...when you have a big heavy car to shift...but smaller cars have never been torque monsters, and especially most of the best smaller sports cars over the years have never been torquers either...

Torque > Talk

Yes, magazines always bang on about power to weight. Just another reason not to bother reading that ****, together with subjective drivel like this little pearler

Originally Posted by GT 160

This ^^^

Wheels rated it higher than the outgoing Cayman for pure driving experience vs price

It seems a lot of the same people who claim that you can't use big output cars on the street in this day and age when trying to discount the unbelievable stonk of FPVs are the same ones who maintain that you don't need torque when you have revs or that you just need to keep stirring the pot to get the most out of it.

The reality is these days the only real opportunity to give it some herbs is more of a squirt here and there rather than winding it out on a mountain.

This is why torque is king on the street. Torque where you can and do use it is the way to have fun even on a daily commute to work. In the middle of the rev range, that's where we drive most of the time. That's where the fun is. A GT is fun to drive not because of the killerwasps but because it makes 570nm @ 2k revs.

But hey, if it is $30k that really is a small spend for a new car these days and I think the world is big enough for it too

[MITCHAY]

I'm really keen to take one of these for a drive.

As long as it feels good it doesn't really matter how fast it goes really.

I think what I would be worried about is how it goes as a daily drive to work which has a decent amount of stop/start. The low torque might be well compensated with the low weight.

It would be interesting to compare to my WRX. That has 169kw/300nm and is about 1400kg so the power to weight is comparable.

[calais]

All this talk about torque has got me hooked.

Off idle torque is what makes my Supercharged Calais really haul, I have become so used to just punching the throttle and getting the hell out of dodge. (mind you it has been modestly tuned to behave like this)

If off idle snap makes a 1650kg Commodore variant fun IMHO, I'd love to drive a 1200kg Supercharged 86!!