Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[mash again]

Why are the smaller to midsize suv's popular. My parents hoped out of a falcon into a secondhand jeep, because they found the falcon hard to get in and out of and i would have to agree the older more upright windscreen in a car made it easier and now there is more choice. they picked comfort and ease over fuel economy with a raked windscreen, jeep gave them everything the falcon did, mum isnt woried about handling, she aint racing it!

[z80]

Originally Posted by burnz

wouldn't it be closer to $15.00 a week?
in my case $215 a week extra.

Have you heard of...wait for it, (I know it's a secret here)....

EcoLpi Falcon?

Originally Posted by Big Damo

$7.50 x 52 = $390 a year

Lets times that $390 by say, 5, if you keep the car for 5 years.

$1950 extra to go the same distance.

.

Now do the same sums on a Falcon EcoLpi Damo.

Originally Posted by DJM83

I might post up some smashed XR5/RS's that people have survived in. The Airbags and the way the car is designed to crash do help. Need to get with the times, new small cars are very safe.

That would be interesting, but we really need one of a XR5 and a falcon head on . (might be harder to find?)

All new cars have airbags now, therefore they become a common mathematical constant in the equation, unless you want to compare a car without airbags?

The difference between the winner and the loser is the object that he who decellerates for the longest time wins....

You can do it with a short bonnet or a long bonnet.

I would rather >10G's in a Falcon rather than <30g's in a Getz.

30g's and your heart keeps moving forward in your chest ripping the aorta from it's engine mounts.

Of course go fast enough and it doesn't matter...nothing will save you.

Originally Posted by mash again

Why are the smaller to midsize suv's popular.

I've heard a few people say that the SUV's are safer because they are stronger.

Many suburbanites think they are driving a landcruiser in an SUV.

Nothing is further from the truth.

[MelsGolf]

Its funny how times have changed, when we grew up we were taught to drive to avoid accidents, there were no such things as airbags or crumple zones.
Now we seem more preoccupied with owning vehicles that will survive crashes, have we become conditioned now to accept that crashes are going to happen? or have we forgotten what the primary instict should be?

Like all Mothers i worry, but i also want my kids to be able to avoid accidents, i want them in safe cars but i dont want them to have a crash in the first place...

[ZDHLANE]

[QUOTE=prydey]how many ads for mazda 3 did you see? or any of the other cars that make up the top 10? when was the last time you bought something because you saw it in a tv ad?

[QUOTE=prydey]how many ads for mazda 3 did you see? or any of the other cars that make up the top 10? when was the last time you bought something because you saw it in a tv ad?

Oh sorry, maybe i may have it wrong. Primarily if you look at the sales between the 2 big cars ie falcon and commodore, you are not suggesting that in Australia the massive adsvertising for Holden commodore has done very little for its branding and sales?

And to answer the 2nd part of your Q, I cannot remember when i last bought something advertised, however, i am convinced there are a couple of dozen perhaps that respond and buy through brand awarness thanks to advertsing and accept it or not the big $ spent in advertising would not be used if people did not buy because of it!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

No extra people will buy the car because it's called a fairmont. It's old and tired. Move on it has had no effect whatsoever on sales.

Last month Ford sold the least amount of Falcons on record.

[SVR73]

I've always bought cars mainly for their styling and I am a sedan man, always have been and always will
Am single and still drive a large sedan because theres nothing like the easy overtaking and 2000 revs or lower at 110 km/h that an aussie big six gives you compared to those high reving imported cars. I am happy to keep the ultra reliable AU XR6 VCT sedan as its never let me down, looks great, plenty of room for me to sleep in it at an interstate speedway like mildura on friday when I put the back seats down and had my feet in the boot, three pillows, two quilts and a swag

I don't see the point of buying a new car every few years or every seven years because it's just not viable for me and many other people. I'm not one that wants to keep up with the jones's. sure its nice to have a brand new car but the novelty soon wears off when you start making payments for the loan. I havent had a car loan since 1998

many people just cant afford to buy new cars anymore and the quality isnt there anymore with some of them, especially the interior materials. what happened to vinyl like the AU has or other quality materials. I hate SUV's except the territory, fuel is cheap compared to the cost of milk and how much money people make today. I like the safety of a bigger sedan, sedans look nicer than small to medium sized cars and an aussie six is extremely economical if you know how to drive it right. 1200 km/tank and 750 city for my forte (RIP) and 900 h/wy 650 city with the XR.

I dont think we have the population or cheap cost of living to be able to sell the kinds of numbers of cars that the US, india, china and such do. cost of living for many is becoming too much and I really think that theres nothing wrong with having an older car. everything new becomes old eventually
still cheaper to overhaul my AU when its needed than buy a 30+ thousand FG or other car

only got 120k on it

[ZDHLANE]

Remember for those of us that are old enough.

Many of my mates and I bought the falcon or commodore off our parents as a first car which allowed them to buy the newer model. We did have a choice of buying imported skylines or silvias as a first car.

Big difference to how times have changed.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Last month Ford sold the least amount of Falcons on record.

And that is all due to a name change?? Please.

[ROBBO1981]

i like my bf xr6. i trust it. 550 a tank in traffic 700+ long distance. i got into debit buying this car. this will be the last big car i own. ill be heading down the small car path

[falconnut]

Hopefully this will help the falcon in the short term as well as long term, it better include a bigger/better marketing department.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/mil...-1226238967432

[Smoke Pursuit]

Lets all go out and buy new Falcons...

If we want them to survive we all need to buy them, and im not talking used ex fleet ones... Brand spanking ones!

[falconnut]

But but i cant afford one :( i cant even afford the lowly 30k models :((((((((((

[SVR73]

I don't mind the FPV FG's and some others but would never buy them.
The only modern ford I would buy is a BF II FPV or XR Turbo. the only post AU shape that appeals to me

currently busy saving for regular USA trips from this year on so no money for a car to sit alongside the AU

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Last month Ford sold the least amount of Falcons on record.

and holden sold how many commodores?

seriously, why do people continue to single out falcon

Originally Posted by ZDHLANE

however, i am convinced there are a couple of dozen perhaps that respond and buy through brand awarness thanks to advertsing and accept it or not the big $ spent in advertising would not be used if people did not buy because of it!

there are many ways to get brand awareness. its not all about tv ads. ford banners were everywhere at the mcg for the boxing day test and also at the sydney test. plenty of exposure there.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by prydey

and holden sold how many commodores?

seriously, why do people continue to single out falcon

Exactly. Holden are selling what, around 1500 more Commodores per month than the Falcon? The difference between the two was about the same ten years ago in the VT/AU era. Both have dropped around the same number of sales if I remember rightly.

[Smoke Pursuit]

VE is still doing okay... we have to remember its 2 years older then FG...

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by MelsGolf

Its funny how times have changed, when we grew up we were taught to drive to avoid accidents, there were no such things as airbags or crumple zones.
Now we seem more preoccupied with owning vehicles that will survive crashes, have we become conditioned now to accept that crashes are going to happen? or have we forgotten what the primary instict should be?

Like all Mothers i worry, but i also want my kids to be able to avoid accidents, i want them in safe cars but i dont want them to have a crash in the first place...

I think it's a fallacy that SUVs / 4WDs are safer than a similar size/weight sedan if an accident occurs, predominantly because of the ease they flip due to their higher centre of gravity. The SUVs with 7 seats (2 extra almost up against rear window) can also be extremely dangerous. If a larger vehicle runs up the back of one, those in the rear seats are in strife. You've basically got a slim panel and sheet of glass only as protection. I've seen this tested on TV and it was VERY eye opening. I certainly wouldn't place children of mine in those seats.

Coupled with this, they are a nuisance on the road because of their size, mainly height. Driving behind one blocks frontal vision, which can be dangerous as you can only see brake lights of that direct car in-front, not further up the line of traffic. I guess you could say their weight can cause more impact in an accident also... especially those people who put bull bars on.

I think you're right though that people do like the idea of being in an SUV as a sense of safety, stability or power. Not sure if that's actually true in reality though.

[Buntz]

Wow. So many comments I want to reply to. So many points I want to cover...

So I will just dot-point them, and hopefully wont's miss anything. Why people aren't buying them or reason they aren't selling as well:

* State of economy. We aren't feeling it as much as the rest of the world, in fact we're living pretty compared to folk in other lands. But that doesn't mean people aren't thinking more of the necessities rather than the luxuries. Falcon is a bit of a luxury item than a means of transportation. Boggles the mind why people buy the inferior commodore though, whatup with that? Big price cuts?

* Higher cost of living. Everything is so jolly expensive, people want to save where they can. So cost of ownership is a biggie. Falcon aint too bad with it's widely available cheap aussie made parts. And fuel efficiency isn't all bad either. But small cars are cheaper to maintain. EcoLPi probably will be offset slightly by servicing costs from the higher compression and LPG specific components.

* Highly competitive used car market. Want a big Aussie six? The used car market has what you're after at a fraction of the price. And it's so damned competitive. People that need/prefer a big sedan can pick up great pre-loved vehicles. And these purchases can be rationalised easily.

* Cost. The ol' humble aussie six ain't what it used to be. They're better than ever. And they have a price to match. I specked a Falcon XR6II EcoLPi with Luxo pack to my postcode. $52.8k minimum (not including government rebate). Mondeo Zetec Hatch with 4.5k worth of interior options (as per Luxo Pack) and 2.0 ecoboost (And not all that much more equipment or options than Falcon really) $43.4k. And finally. Focus sport sedan with diesel option and 4.5k worth of interior plus's. $41.4k. That's enough of a gap to get people looking closer.

* Unfavourable Perception. Some people have it in their minds, and rightly so from ages gone. That Falcon's and Commodores are bogan mobiles, and despite how far they've come. Won't buy them because of that image. Or that Australian made cars are somehow inferior to imported vehicles. Nonsense. FG is a well put together vehicle. However due to the size, and the market the vehicle has to be afforded by... some things like higher quality interior materials, and components are sacrificed. Not that bad, but in comparison... not that good. Of course I'd trade interior plastics quality for virtual pivot link double wishbone suspension any day. Non car people have a different perspective however.

* Poor Advertising. It's like Ford want it to perform badly to justify getting rid of it. Ford sold tens of thousands of Falcon B series sedans. Not too long ago. Even this orphan of the empire flourished. Then Mullaly took over and has seen it as a problem that needs addressing. Keep it or don't keep it? Let's see how it does. Umm.... still needs to be advertised big fella... otherwise you're tainting the observations.

* No model variations. Just Sedan. No Wagon or Hatch. No RTV. No Panel Wagon. These were the bulk of workhorses.

* Sedan's no longer doing it for customers. Everyone seems to want an SUV these days. Not that a Sedan can't do what it's asked to. But that people just want an SUV. Easier to get in and out of, and to load stuff into, for taller persons.

Now reason why people should:

* Great Value. This can be different segments in itself. Luxury and Performance. It's a lot of money... but it's a lot of car too. And what a car. Big Aussie sedans are utilitarian vehicles... and in that way earn their keep. Lot's of space, lots of comfort. Dependable cruiser. Much cheaper than counterparts in the same segment, with quality up there to match.

* Support for Australian Manufacturing. Shouldn't be throwing in the patriotism card. But buying Aussie made products is important. Otherwise the Dutch Disease will spread and we will be a whore of country letting others take our resources and make them into goods to sell to us, that we can make and sell to them and ourselves.

* Support for Australian Research. Everyone should know about the great work that came of the EcoLPi. With the brainy stuff mostly done out of Balcatta, Perth. Orbital, a company that does automotive development for countries around the globe. Particularly in engines.

* Uniqueness of owning an Australian Vehicle. Especially if it's an Aussie ford. Only us here in OZ and NZ have the availability to own this unique vehicle. And that superb straight six. An engine type often associated with cars built for car lovers.

* Motoring Enthusiasm. Drivers car through and through. Drivetrain is probably the best part of the Falcon.

Now as regards that story by Neil Dowling. It's interesting that Mullaly flat out says. We're going to have E segment vehicles no matter how small the market... and they're gonna be world class. And we're gonna have Mustang a niche vehicle. It all points to me like Falcon is staying. It's just done the R&D for Ford's first 2.0L EcoBoost RWD application (Mustang next I bet). Falcon is Fords most sophisticated current RWD car in the World. Mustang having the same back end as my ED Falcon, (Coil sprung Live Axle)and MacPherson struts. Less advanced than my ED Falcon. So if Mustang is to become this world class product that will appeal to Europeans. Then it's going to need something much more suited to the job, and this century. (A rumour went around not too long ago that Mustang was going around Nurburgring with Virtual Pivot Link Double Control Arms, and Control Blade IRS. Just a rumour though.) DEW98 has been tried and retired by Ford. Too expensive. (Current platform the latest Jags sit on.) Falcon however has had to be cheaper from the get go. "The best it can be for the lest it can be". Ford of Australia's motto. Add to this Ford's commitment to a revamp of Lincoln to compete against the best luxury brands... and you can almost be assured of a state-of-the-art RWD V8 saloon with all the leather and gadgetry that can be stuffed inside. Falcon begins to look like a promising research project for future premium vehicles. Perhaps even our stables will only be premium vehicles from that point onward... and Falcon can have it's let downs turned upside down. And last but not least platform/component sharing. Mustang and Falcon are both orphans it would seem. Time to for them to make a family.

Finally after my massive rant. Why haven't I bought a Falcon? Why haven't I put my money where my mouth is? Answer: I have no monies. I'm 22 and working part time. I'd love to own a new Falcon. I'd put 50 grand down now on a new XR6 LPi if I had it. But don't. And I don't want to reach that day when I can buy a new car... and the Falcon is no more.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Also Ford should with tail between legs dump the funny names like g6, g6et, g6eftpyu and whatever else and bring back fairmont and fairmont ghia even fairlane and LTD. Watch all the buyers come out if the woods. Offer a falcon xt with a v8 and steal all the ss sales.

People who say this totally grinds my gears.

After Ford switched to the G series names, as a percentage of total Falcon sales, they went through the roof. Futura, Fairmont and Ghia made up less than 20% of total Falcon sales for BFII. With FG the G series made up around 50% of Falcon sales.

Thats total proof Fords strategy of dropping the old nameplates worked extremely well.

And people are still saying they are losing sales because of this.

Are some people really that stupid. I mean seriously?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Coupled with this, they are a nuisance on the road because of their size, mainly height. Driving behind one blocks frontal vision, which can be dangerous as you can only see brake lights of that direct car in-front, not further up the line of traffic ???????. I guess you could say their weight can cause more impact in an accident also... especially those people who put bull bars on.

So do we get rid of trucks and delivery vans etc as well, quite obviously you could do with a few more driving lessons.....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

And that is all due to a name change?? Please.

There will be no name change. Taurus became a disaster over in the US. Ford changed it's name to the "Five Hundred". Mullaly came in. Ordered a layout of the products. Looked at it, and said "Where's Taurus"? They said "we changed the name to avoid lack of market confidence". Mullaly said "Well get it back... do you know how hard it is to build brand reputation?" Or something along these lines. Falcon has been a respected name plate for fifty years. Who the hell could justify changing it to the CEO? I wouldn't want to be that guy.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SVR73

I've always bought cars mainly for their styling and I am a sedan man, always have been and always will
Am single and still drive a large sedan because theres nothing like the easy overtaking and 2000 revs or lower at 110 km/h that an aussie big six gives you compared to those high reving imported cars.

My Focus sits on 1750 revs at 100km/h in 6th, and still has plenty of torque if you want to overtake without dropping back a gear.

Originally Posted by z80

Have you heard of...wait for it, (I know it's a secret here)....

EcoLpi Falcon?





Now do the same sums on a Falcon EcoLpi Damo.

EcoLPI has the advantage of cheaper fuel, but the initial purchase price is still a lot higher over the smaller cars.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

So do we get rid of trucks and delivery vans etc as well, quite obviously you could do with a few more driving lessons.....

He has a point. Large capital cities and other metropolises are banning trucks after certain hours, and even SUV's from certain areas. Having to share a T-Junction with a 4WD that never leaves the road... and similar useless SUV is irritating. You have to wait for them to leave before you can see it's safe to go. Only to more than likely have another one pull up beside you.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

No extra people will buy the car because it's called a fairmont. It's old and tired. Move on it has had no effect whatsoever on sales.

And nobody bought the XT with a v8 when it was offered, whats different now??

The name "Falcon" is every bit as "old and tired"...at least if they still called it a Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia instead of the meaningless G6 and G6E, owners wouldn't have to explain to people what they drive...I suppose it's a conversation starter though..."It's a what?"...
I've given up...I tell people I drive a new Fairmont Ghia instead of a G6E, and they immediately know what I'm talking about...

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The name "Falcon" is every bit as "old and tired"...at least if they still called it a Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia instead of the meaningless G6 and G6E, owners wouldn't have to explain to people what they drive...I suppose it's a conversation starter though..."It's a what?"...
I've given up...I tell people I drive a new Fairmont Ghia instead of a G6E, and they immediately know what I'm talking about...

Must be generational thing because fairmont et al mean nothing at all to me. A falcon is falcon. That's all that matters.

It's a failing of fords marketing if people don't understand the new monikers. Besides when fairmont was first introduced I bet people complained then too.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

My Focus sits on 1750 revs at 100km/h in 6th, and still has plenty of torque if you want to overtake without dropping back a gear..

Overtaking on dual carriageways doesn't count, you can take as long as you want..

Originally Posted by Big Damo

EcoLPI has the advantage of cheaper fuel, but the initial purchase price is still a lot higher over the smaller cars.

You could get cars a lot cheaper than a Focus if you are concerned with purchase price.

The smaller car will wear out much quicker though, it will go through tyres much quicker too being front wheel drive.

You get what you pay for.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by z80

The smaller car will wear out much quicker though

Someone should tell VW that. My GTI with 60000km felt pretty much as new. My BA XR6 certainly didnt.

it will go through tyres much quicker too being front wheel drive.

My BA understeered like a pig in slow corners. It went through its tyres every bit as quick as my GTI, without anywhere near the mid-corner performance.

You get what you pay for.

Agree with that. Would rather spend $40k on a euro than $40k on a falcadore.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by z80

Overtaking on dual carriageways doesn't count, you can take as long as you want..




You could get cars a lot cheaper than a Focus if you are concerned with purchase price.

The smaller car will wear out much quicker though, it will go through tyres much quicker too being front wheel drive.

You get what you pay for.

What a crock of crap.
Go and drive a decent powered hatch- MPS, GTi XR5 et al. Plenty of go when you need it trust me, ive had no trouble overtaking at all.

Wear out quicker, have you owned one? My XR5 has 35k kms on it and it feels like new still (Tyres i can kind of agree but thats tyre choice, factory tyres werent flash).
Can you stop making generalisations please?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by z80

Overtaking on dual carriageways doesn't count, you can take as long as you want..




You could get cars a lot cheaper than a Focus if you are concerned with purchase price.

The smaller car will wear out much quicker though, it will go through tyres much quicker too being front wheel drive.

You get what you pay for.

Won't last as long? Looking around the average parking lot, I see just as many, if not more, "small cars" as "big cars" from many years back.
As for tyre wear, it doesn't really matter...You could equally say that a rear wheel drive will wear out rear tyres more than a front wheel drive wears out its rear tyres.
One of our sons has a Suzuki Alto that we bought new back in January last year, and I have to admit I was a bit concerned about wear and tear on it, being only $11,990 drive away, but after a year of hard use and nearly 30,000km (yes, in a year...living in Rocky, working in Gracemere, many trips to Yeppoon, lots of trips to Bundy and out to here where we live...it all adds up), it's still tight, no squeeks and rattles, the interior bits and pieces all still work, and it still drives like a nippy little car should. The tyres stil have plenty of life in them yet...but you get that when a car weighs three-eighths of bugger all... I fully expect him to get many more years out of it.

Small cars aren't cheap and nasty anymore...and you can't ignore the fact that people are watching thier finances a lot more than they used to. If I had been hard-headed and rational about it, with only me and the missus left at home, I would have been better off with a Mondeo Titanium diesel at the most (still have the odd pang of regret after driving a couple of them...), but we had "nearly always had big cars", and so we only looked at Commodores and Falcons. Money wasn't a real issue as we had an expensive vehicle that we fully owned as a trade-in, so change over was always going to be pretty cheap. We thought with our heart and not our heads and perhaps a bit of haste...but most people don't.
If we had walked in off the street and been shown a G6E with lots of options like sat-nav and so-on, worth over $50,000, with only a cheap old car as a trade, we'd have said "That's nice...what else do you have?"

So why aren't people buying Falcons?
* The economy...people are pulling in thier belts.
* Choice...small and medium cars ain't small and medium anymore. We parked beside a Toyota Corolla sedan the other day in Rocky, and I was surprised at how big it was...a perfectly acceptable family car for two adults and probably two kids. Even hatchbacks like Fiestas and other makers smaller hatchbacks are pretty roomy, at least compared to even ten years ago. The endless harping about the evils of front wheel drive doesn't change the fact that people today...the vast majority of buyers...couldn't care less and probably don't even know which end is doing the driving, not to mention that the ability to hang the back end out in a corner is pretty low on the majority of peoples requirements when buying a car . Torque steer and ill-manners are a thing of the past with practically all front whel drivers, and with a lot of them, you can't even tell which end is driving, so that arguement is out the window and has been for some time.
Getting onto choice of large cars, Falcon and Commodore, I think the comment about the "inferior" Commodore is just what a Ford Man would say. If you approached it as we did...people who have literally no preference for any make at all...then it's honestly a toss of the coin. They each have thier good and bad points compared to the other, but they're both great, well made, powerful sedans, in most models sharply priced. Many many people aren't one-eyed anymore as towhat they buy, and this is what manufacturers have to address and try things to attract people to thier dealerships.
* Price...relates back to the economy. Why do you think those cheap Chinese fourbies and cars are so popular, despite claims of DOOOOOOOM from motoring journalists? They give cheap motoring, with lots of features...if they only go five or six years before exibiting any major issues instead of maybe ten, then you've come out ahead seeing the lower initial purchase price...and people know it.
* Moving away from "Buying Australian just for the sake of it". Maybe back in the seventies and eighties people would prefer to buy Falcons and Kingswoods and Commodores, but nowadays there's so much choice of so many good cars (refer to "Choice") that they don't feel bound to only buy cars slapped together here and overlooking a few minor issues.

Many times since I started driving in 1982 I've heard "The day of the big car is coming to an end"...but the opposition at the time meant you usually laughed at that statement.
One look around the car lots today makes you only give a nervous chuckle, and realise it could finally be coming true...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJM83

What a crock of crap.
Go and drive a decent powered hatch- MPS, GTi XR5 et al. Plenty of go when you need it trust me, ive had no trouble overtaking at all.

Wear out quicker, have you owned one? My XR5 has 35k kms on it and it feels like new still (Tyres i can kind of agree but thats tyre choice, factory tyres werent flash).
Can you stop making generalisations please?

Aurion owners are recommended to have their tyres rotated every 10000kms.

Blow that for a joke.