April VFacts.. Falcon !!!!!!

[Road_Warrior]

I can see what's going to happen here. There's going to be a run on them and because Ford have only estimated 2000 sales p/a they're going to get caught flat footed with stock and engine supply.

Please don't let it be so

[bossgreg]

I'm pleased to say that my new car is one of the 1009. Very happy!

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I can see what's going to happen here. There's going to be a run on them and because Ford have only estimated 2000 sales p/a they're going to get caught flat footed with stock and engine supply.

Please don't let it be so

iv'e missed something?

if there a run on them thats a good thing!
at least ford will know they are going in the right direction, and can take orders.

build to many; well you know the answer.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I can see what's going to happen here. There's going to be a run on them and because Ford have only estimated 2000 sales p/a they're going to get caught flat footed with stock and engine supply.

Please don't let it be so

With European volumes down, then I don't imagine the engine is volume limited out of Valencia. Just got approx. 4 week delay for delivery, if there is a "run"

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Mad_Pom

With European volumes down, then I don't imagine the engine is volume limited out of Valencia. Just got approx. 4 week delay for delivery, if there is a "run"

But wouldn't they need to be built to spec? The Falcon ecoboost would have unique build specs to the others wouldn't they?

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

But wouldn't they need to be built to spec? The Falcon ecoboost would have unique build specs to the others wouldn't they?

I think the whole plan with One Ford is that they are not unique. The Mondeo and Falcon versions are different, but i believe the Falcon version is almost identical to the Explorer version.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm just curious as to why Ford is only intending to build around 2,000 Ecoboost falcons between now and December..
I'd would have thought that the car would sell way more than 250 per month, maybe low numbers are now spooking them...

Maybe Ecoboost is another engine now in short supply globally......

I agree 100%... You've also got to figure some (pick a number) will just replace I6 customers, so the additional increase to sales number can only be small for this year. I wish they’d back this a bit harder. Hopefully they know what they are doing!!

I wonder how quickly & how much extra stock they can get if Ecoboost takes off?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm just curious as to why Ford is only intending to build around 2,000 Ecoboost falcons between now and December..
I'd would have thought that the car would sell way more than 250 per month, maybe low numbers are now spooking them...

Maybe Ecoboost is another engine now in short supply globally......

Cause they know basically no one will know it exists, cause they will be doing bugger all to promote it.

I really don't know why they bother releasing new models but then set them up to fail by not backing them like they should.

[Joe5619]

Is their any dealers on here that maybe can provide some early read on Ecoboost sales? Has anyone sold one yet??

[RASER]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Ford making 2000 cars a month is still moving 2000 x and average of what $35000 = $70 million a month, or getting up near $1 billion turnover in a year. Its still not small bikkies.

Yeah, its just a pity that it costs $90 million/month to run the show.

Both Ford and Holden [NOT Toyota] can ONLY build cars here because the GovCo keeps tipping in OUR money [tax] to keep them afloat

Australia is about the worst place on the planet to manufacture anything, its a fact, get over it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I agree 100%... You've also got to figure some (pick a number) will just replace I6 customers, so the additional increase to sales number can only be small for this year. I wish they’d back this a bit harder. Hopefully they know what they are doing!!

I wonder how quickly & how much extra stock they can get if Ecoboost takes off?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Cause they know basically no one will know it exists, cause they will be doing bugger all to promote it.

I really don't know why they bother releasing new models but then set them up to fail by not backing them like they should.

After thinking about the questions I posed regarding Ecoboost quantities, I've come to the opinion that
Ford is completely lost as to what the market wants in a big car, they seem to be going through the list looking
for some model, some form of efficiency that wil boost sales- after all that's why Ford spends cash on new engines..

I wonder with sales so low now that any increase in either Ecoboost or diesel if tried would only serve
to underscore the very rapid move away from not only large capacity six cylinder engines but large cars in general.

Maybe the market is telling Ford what they want...or more properly what they dont want but I'll reserve judgement
until after Ford announcements either next month or July...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RASER

Yeah, its just a pity that it costs $90 million/month to run the show.

Both Ford and Holden [NOT Toyota] can ONLY build cars here because the GovCo keeps tipping in OUR money [tax] to keep them afloat

Australia is about the worst place on the planet to manufacture anything, its a fact, get over it.

Australia spend the least amount of money on the industry...

Australia $17.80
Germany $90.37,
Sweden $334
US $264.

I think the industry is doing well considering our government has little regard for it.

Further more, the money that the government poors into the industry, it gets back...with intrest on top...think about that one before you tirade!

[prydey]

i'm sorry, but holden and ford produce near identical cars in that large segment, so saying one is building cars people want, and the other isn't is a bit puzzling. i'm the first to admit that commodores sell because they are holdens, end of story. if the badges on the bonnet were opposite the sales figures would also reflect that. i've asked many cruze owners if they would've considered buying a daewoo and they all turn their noses up. the holden badge works wonders in australia.

falcon was down just under 300 sales on the previous month although april was a short month due to easter shutdown. i'm assuming holden shut down for a similar amount of time but commodore sales were down 1000 give or take. just because their numbers are higher, don't be fooled into thinking they aren't suffering the same fate.

on a side note, the names of thefirst 250 odd businesses on the carbon tax list were released recently and toyota is on there. surely that will be the beginning of the end for them. whats their local plant produce? maybe ford and holden will be on there as well, but they weren't on that list.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Further more, the money that the government poors into the industry, it gets back...with intrest on top...think about that one before you tirade!

in taxes alone..

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Australia spend the least amount of money on the industry...

Australia $17.80
Germany $90.37,
Sweden $334
US $264.

I think the industry is doing well considering our government has little regard for it.

Further more, the money that the government poors into the industry, it gets back...with intrest on top...think about that one before you tirade!

Your telling others to think, before writing something's. The figures you claim are not in the ballpark. $17.80 x 22 million for Australia comes to circa $400 million. The only problem with that is that Australians pay over a $billion each year in import tariffs (government assistance), they get hundreds of millions in cash each year, and they get preferred supplier status (hidden assistance). They get alot more than $17.80 per person in assistance. And for the same reason your Aussie figures are wrong, so are they for your other figures.

[babyf6]

Lets hope may is a good month for FoA and they can get some ecoboosts on the road

[BP'93]

Do we have break-down figures for Holden, VW, Toyota & Hyundai models?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BP'93

Do we have break-down figures for Holden, VW, Toyota & Hyundai models?

Falcon and Commodore aren't the only ones to be down..

Camry 1602
Aurion 629

Quite surprising since bot of those Toyotas are new models

[burnz]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm sorry, but holden and ford produce near identical cars in that large segment, so saying one is building cars people want, and the other isn't is a bit puzzling. i'm the first to admit that commodores sell because they are holdens, end of story. if the badges on the bonnet were opposite the sales figures would also reflect that. i've asked many cruze owners if they would've considered buying a daewoo and they all turn their noses up. the holden badge works wonders in australia.

falcon was down just under 300 sales on the previous month although april was a short month due to easter shutdown. i'm assuming holden shut down for a similar amount of time but commodore sales were down 1000 give or take. just because their numbers are higher, don't be fooled into thinking they aren't suffering the same fate.

on a side note, the names of thefirst 250 odd businesses on the carbon tax list were released recently and toyota is on there. surely that will be the beginning of the end for them. whats their local plant produce? maybe ford and holden will be on there as well, but they weren't on that list.

what has a badge got to do with anything?
try putting warranty on a car first then see if it sells!

[stevz]

Originally Posted by prydey

i've asked many cruze owners if they would've considered buying a daewoo and they all turn their noses up. the holden badge works wonders in australia.

Except your question is stupid and pointless because the Cruze is not simply just a Daewoo with a Holden badge as you would like to think. It is a global vehicle with the majority of development and engineering work done in Europe, US and Australia.

[SSD-85]

Im actually quite impressed with the Falcon numbers. Given the market direction these days.

Trying to sell a large sedan to private buyers is like trying to sell ice to eskimos.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by burnz

what has a badge got to do with anything?

don't be so naive

Originally Posted by stevz

Except your question is stupid and pointless because the Cruze is not simply just a Daewoo with a Holden badge as you would like to think. It is a global vehicle with the majority of development and engineering work done in Europe, US and Australia.

you're a regular sherlock aren't you.

it is sold in other markets as a daewoo and until recently was imported from korea. do you really think the sales would be the same if they sold them here under the daewoo badge. seriously??

if people think that australians don't have some sort of affiliation with holden then they are kidding themselves. if falcon was badged as commodore and vice versa, do people really think the sales would be the same for each car?? of course not!!

[stevz]

Originally Posted by prydey

it is sold in other markets as a daewoo and until recently was imported from korea. do you really think the sales would be the same if they sold them here under the daewoo badge. seriously??

I'm well aware of that, however you were implying that it was purely a Daewoo with a Holden badge, which is incorrect as it was a globally designed and engineered car jointly developed by several GM brands. It is sold under each region's respective GM brand, being Holden in Australia, so why on earth would they sell it here as a Daewoo? Besides, the Daewoo name has been defunct for years, it is now GM Korea.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm well aware of that, however you were implying that it was purely a Daewoo with a Holden badge, which is incorrect as it was a globally designed and engineered car jointly developed by several GM brands. It is sold under each region's respective GM brand, being Holden in Australia, so why on earth would they sell it here as a Daewoo? Besides, the Daewoo name has been defunct for years, it is now GM Korea.

Give it up...


He is not talking about who built it...

There is no denying the fact if the cruze had a Daewoo badge on it, sales wouldn't be as high.

People buy it for the badge.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Give it up...


He is not talking about who built it...

There is no denying the fact if the cruze had a Daewoo badge on it, sales wouldn't be as high.

People buy it for the badge.

If a Falcon/Territory/Focus/Fiesta had a Daewoo badge on them they would probably only sell a fraction of what they do now too! If they had a Toyota badge they would probably sell triple...

What's your point?

Brand recognition and reputation is a major factor in all consumer goods.

[BHDOGS]

Ah yes the idiots who will buy something because of the name on something truly the greatest scam ever.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

What's your point?

Original statement

Originally Posted by prydey

i've asked many cruze owners if they would've considered buying a daewoo and they all turn their noses up. the holden badge works wonders in australia.

Your reply

Originally Posted by stevs

Except your question is stupid and pointless because the Cruze is not simply just a Daewoo with a Holden badge as you would like to think. It is a global vehicle with the majority of development and engineering work done in Europe, US and Australia.

The point is, someone made a just observation, and you got all crazy.

[russellw]

Back on topic if we can.

The first set of graphical data has now been uploaded into the Tech Portal.

Cheers
Russ

[jpd80]

Go back 5 or 6 years ago and it was absolutely true that manufacturers could not effectively build small cars in Australia,
not even Toyota had the scales of economy to make that happen, so what changed with Ford and GM to make that happen?

There are many parallels with Cruze and Focus, Cruze started off as mainly an Opel designed and Daewoo assembled vehicle
but then evolved on the run into a vehicle suitable to wider global applications like North America and of course Australia.
Along the way, GM picked up huge scales of economy by commonizing, design, build process and most importantly, supplier networks

Similarly, Focus began as a European car but was hastily thrust into a global role by Jack Nasser who insisted that
North America give up the Escort (Laser) and adopt the Euro Ford but rushed US development saw painful problems emerge
and rather than progress to C1 Foocus, FNA stayed with evolitioned C170 because their cost structure and bargain basement
image prevented them from asking better prices for what was seen as a stripper vehicle and a CAFE offset for big cars.

Mulally changed all of that with this model, all stake holders were in at the redesign stage, meaning this evolution has
the same efficient qualities of process, design, manufacturing costs and supplier networks that make it affordable to
build in the US and by inference, other parts of the world like Australia.

What am I getting at?
The recent old days of saying that cars cannot be built in Australia at a profit
is now out dated paradigms because of a shift on three fronts:

1) consumers wanting efficient small cars that are well appointed and
2) Customers prepared to pay higher prices for fuly loaded vehicles
3) Small loaded vehicles are now built with same features found in large cars.

People ask, how can Cruze be built in Australia at a profit?
That question is also loaded with prejudice of past cost structures and buying patterns,
Cruze and Focus selling patterns now show that the bulk of sales are mid and high
series vehicles compared to around 8-10 years ago when small cars were mostly
base models with a spattering of mid and high series buyers.

So while Holden does not appear to make as much money off Cruze as it does off Commodore,
Holden is freed of the total on going design/development cost burden associated with Cruze
combined with increased sales of mid / high series vehicles that attract higher prices and profit.

While Ford chooses to maximize production efficiency by sourcing Focus from Thailand,
i think that the manufacturing of global platforms in Australia is not only possible but
also necessary for Ford's long term standing in Australia and not doing so will inevitably
cede even more of their market share to Asian car makers who will gladly take it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by russellw

Back on topic if we can.

The first set of graphical data has now been uploaded into the Tech Portal.

Cheers
Russ

all the 'falcon is rubbish' members should have a read. all 3 models in the large segment have fallen at similar rates, showing that it is the segment that is dropping still and not the fault of any one particular model.