Why does the Falcon struggle to sell?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by flappist

Saying the GS is no good

I never said that. I questioned its value (in much the same way you question the value of the RS250).

and a Renault is comparative choice is just silly

Why? They're both performance cars, they just go about it in very different ways.

I already have a car that I can go offroad with, and tow a trailer. So when it comes to selecting a 'fun' car, its a blank canvas. I'm not constrained by having to choose from one segment.

If you cant comprehend how someone who appreciates a V8 sedan might also appreciate a turbo 4 hatch, that's your loss.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekkyl

Many interesting perspectives raised in this thread.

I think it is multifactorial.

1) Marketing. Aussie cars have not changed a great deal BUT Holden market themselves as though they have. SIDI eh, what is that again, and does it actually make a difference? I note the badge is often green. The FG falcon is the best car to be made in this country to date, yet it gets practically no spruiking.

2) The market. People now look for vehicles that are economical and/or safe. Traditional large car buyers are moving away from sedans/wagons to Suburban Assault Vehicles. Commuters are probably more interested in small cars for reasons relating to economy.......and more and more of us are becoming commuters. IF Ford play it right they could probably sell a lot of the new liquid-injection gas models BUT they will have to overcome the prevalent, and seemingly convincing, misconceptions about LPG.

3) Vanity. People are increasingly looking to differentiate themselves in contemporary times. Money is cheaper than every before so people are willing to extend themselves further. European makers have caught on to this too, especially BMW with their 1 series and X3 for example.

Finally, in relation to the article mentioned by the OP.........this is just one in a long series of satirical blogs that are seriously funny. Don't take it to heart, the only reason is that Ford is the focus is because Ford is more overrepresented in the pessimistic mainstream media. We all know that the commodore is the quintessential bogan vehicle......SIDI included.

Well said

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Why do you think you are more right

I dont. I was asked to justify my choice.

Why ask if you know you wont like the answer?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b0son

I dont. I was asked to justify my choice.

Why ask if you know you wont like the answer?

Got no idea what that means sorry ........

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by b0son

I never said that. I questioned its value (in much the same way you question the value of the RS250).



Why? They're both performance cars, they just go about it in very different ways.

I already have a car that I can go offroad with, and tow a trailer. So when it comes to selecting a 'fun' car, its a blank canvas. I'm not constrained by having to choose from one segment.

If you cant comprehend how someone who appreciates a V8 sedan might also appreciate a turbo 4 hatch, that's your loss.

It's a glass half/half empty situation. What an individual looks for is purely subjective isn't it? To you it doesn't have value, to nearly all of those who've bought them they're quite content; they knew what they were looking for so why can't you accept that? Why can't you accept that some people want shear grunt and don't care about useless little gizmos or poofy hatchbacks?

The issue with you is you keep trying to shove this down our throats.

Why don't you get on ls1.com and whinge your tits off about the SSV not having as many flywheel kWs as a GS does at the wheels? Or that the GTS, which is $20k more than a GS, isn't any quicker than a GS? The reason is the value in the performance for the money, or the amount of standard gizmos is in the eye of the buyer, so don't come on here TELLING people what is value and what isn't.

[jed]

i love my G6 15 months on , thats an achievement in itself , i get bored of cars very easily, not interested in having to change gears or be uncomfortable on long trips in hard riding "little gizmo poofy hatchbacks" or " big fat neanderthal V8's "

just happy to sit in my leather seat with the cruise and the radio on and eat the miles up in comfort.

yes i know my profile pic is an AU Fairlane it's the only other car i have ever loved for more than a month or 2.................

Oh and i'm on this forum because I own and am interested in FORDS

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jed

i love my G6 15 months on , thats an achievement in itself , i get bored of cars very easily, not interested in having to change gears or be uncomfortable on long trips in hard riding "little gizmo poofy hatchbacks" or " big fat neanderthal V8's "

just happy to sit in my leather seat with the cruise and the radio on and eat the miles up in comfort.

yes i know my profile pic is an AU Fairlane it's the only other car i have ever loved for more than a month or 2.................

Well said and that's the whole point - I can't remember your moaning about anything other that what you like. I'd be happy in one too.

By the way you shouldn't call the chev motors "big fat neanderthal V8s", they just feel that way next to the 5.0 Boss.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Oh dear lord, AGAIN? If you're not happy with it - SELL IT!

A lot of people do. Thing is your solution works but only at the expense of the Australian car industry.

Better idea might be to make cars that meet the quality and feature expectations of their customers, so they return and buy again.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Well said and that's the whole point - I can't remember your moaning about anything other that what you like. I'd be happy in one too.

By the way you shouldn't call the clevo motors "big fat neanderthal V8s", they just feel that way next to the 5.0 Boss.

fixed ha ha

oh be nice.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by burnz

fixed ha ha

oh be nice.

Yeah that too, but that's 30 years old

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

The issue with you is you keep trying to shove this down our throats.

Shove what exactly? Someone asks me why I chose what I did, then decides my reasons were stupid and my choice was stupid. And I'm the bad guy.

I drove Falcons for 14 years. Stupidly, I thought that meant I was 'allowed' to talk about Falcons. If the fact that I dont drive one now means I'm not welcome, say the word and I'll disappear.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by b0son

Shove what exactly?

You obviously didn't understand a word I said.

My post had less to do with whatever justification you have for buying your car and more to do with this crusade of yours that is to convince everyone that what you think has to be right.

Read your own response to flappist's post below to refresh your memory.

You said... "Like it or not, the GS is TOO PRICEY. Accept it, move on."


A) That's called shoving.
B) Especially if you keep doing it over and again.
C) And you look really absurd when you keep doing it when it's a matter SUBJECTIVITY in the first place, as has been pointed out to you and your ilk in the past.

If you posted like this on any non-brand-specific auto forum it wouldn't change how wrong you are and you'd be told just the same, so don't expect any less here. Nothing wrong playing the devil's advocate, but looking at your history the common trend I see is that your only purpose here is to criticise Ford, at any expense.

Originally Posted by flappist

It must be hard to be a design engineer at Ford.

Just to take the V8 argument over the last decade or so (BA-FG)

BA has THREE different permutations.

Base entry level 220kw Barra, XR8 260kw BOSS & 290Kw BOSS.

Barra hardly sells, is update to 230kw and does no better
XR8 does ok but is outsold by the cheaper and quicker XR6T even after it is updated to 290kw.
290Kw sells ok, is updated to 302kw and then 315kw but is not a HUGE seller.

So BOSS no longer complies and the new 5L supercharged V8 is deployed.

What to do:

In the last 10 odd years entry level V8s have failed to sell, cheap V8s have failed to sell, the only successful Ford V8 has been the high end in a "sporty" config.

So they release an entry level GS and the GTx range.
THE FASTEST AND MOST POWERFUL STANDARD MODEL VEHICLES EVER BUILT IN AUSTRALIA.

And what do they read on the "enthusiasts" forum?

It is all too wrong, too dear, wrong badge....whinge, whinge, whinge.

If you want a top of the range V8 falcon go and buy one because if they don't sell all that will happen is that Ford will drop the V8 and the reply to all the screaming complaints will be:

When we made them you did not buy them so now you can not buy something else instead........

P.S. If you can't afford a new Ford V8 then TOUGH, life wasn't meant to be easy, is rarely fair and if you REALLY want one you will find the money.

Get a second job, give up drinking, smoking, your smart phone, partying every weekend, your playstation and collection of games and Blurays, get a third job just don't expect everyone else to bend over backwards just to help you if you are not prepared to do the same.....

Originally Posted by b0son

Like it or not, the GS is TOO PRICEY. Accept it, move on.

When you're forced to spend $60k, you have every right to be picky, and there's no shortage of cars from other manufacturers (not just Holden) that deliver a better overall package for the same coin.



TOUGH for Ford - because there's no shortage of Holden V8 buyers.

[ray38l]

Why even start a a tread asking why the falcon isn't selling and then attack anyone who gives reasons why?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by ray38l

Why even start a a tread asking why the falcon isn't selling and then attack anyone who gives reasons why?

Have the courtesy to understand what's going on before commenting, bogan. His reasons are based off his personal subjective views and shouldn't be shoved down everyone's throats.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

My post had less to do with whatever justification you have for buying your car and more to do with this crusade of yours that is to convince everyone that what you think has to be right.

crusade? i dont have time for a crusade, shoving stuff down peoples throats is far too time-consuming. now open up and say aaaaaah...

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

A lot of people do. Thing is your solution works but only at the expense of the Australian car industry.

Better idea might be to make cars that meet the quality and feature expectations of their customers, so they return and buy again.

Once again, it's subjective - and to say the solution works but only at the expense of the Australian car industry, is a little off the mark, in my opinion of course. They've purchased the car already, and where one person sells, another person buys...

The unfortunate thing is that, with one bad experience, comes a plethora of criticism...as I've seen on numerous occasions across this forum. And it seems that every single person on the planet can see the dribble that fills the pub. Google searches bring Ford Forums up first page most times...all you really have to do is look at how many 'views' some of these threads get. So, with that in mind, why is Falcon 'really' struggling...?

Perhaps take a good long hard look at some of the 'crap' that fills these threads, repeatedly, and you'll have your answer.

Ford is not struggling because their cars are terrible, Ford struggles because people have poor perception, and unrealistic expectations, and for a forum that holds the Ford nameplate...we should be part of the SOLUTION...not part of the PROBLEM.

Perhaps think about it, and instead of posting your latest 'dig' at Ford in the pub, post it in the workshop if you have a specific issue...that is after all, why it is there.

And no doubt, someone will say that their opinion is as valid as any other persons, which it is - but FFS think about what you're putting up here BEFORE you press submit...this is a Ford dedicated forum...if we're bagging out the cars...and we supposedly like them...good job!

[Wretched]

Is it really just the Falcon not selling?

I don't think the Commodore numbers look all that crash hot to be honest.
They have the wagon, LPG, V8, etc but their sales numbers don't look all that good in relation to range on offer, especially compared to Falcon.

The biggest issue is the range of vehicles in the 30 - 60k price range of which is the biggest market.
SUV style vehicles dominate and I can see why. For people who don't need a large SUV also don't see the need for a sedan and decide on a medium/smaller vehicle. Some decide to spend a little more and go for a higher specced Jap or Euro car. Most don't care what wheels are driven and as long it is comfortable, has all the creature comforts they need, is reliable and drives well then it doesn't matter which brand it comes from.

Ford need to realise it isn't Falcon vs Commodore, it is Falcon vs the world.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Is it really just the Falcon not selling?

nope, you are completely right, the large car segment is not the powerhouse it used to be. look at the choice on offer these days. a lot of the mid size cars have more than enough room to fit the average family in no worries. couple with that the cheaper air fares, which means people no longer need room to load in heaps of luggage, and you can clearly see why the large car segment is now only a bit part player. no one is at fault. its just the way things have gone.

this is the whole point of many of the actual fans on here. quite a few people, who most probably haven't owned a new ford/falcon for quite some time, take any opportunity that arises to stick the boots in to falcon.

what i find rather ironic is the amount of people that arced up over a youtube clip that said nothing more than what most of them publish on here. hypocritical much?

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Have the courtesy to understand what's going on before commenting, bogan. His reasons are based off his personal subjective views and shouldn't be shoved down everyone's throats.

all he said was he considered the gs but chose another car over it. It wasn't till everyone took exception to it that he defended it. He made a valid comment considering a lot of people are picking other cars over falcons.
With people like you with the maturity of a 5 year old being a moderator here no wonder ford falcon is failing to sell.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ray38l

all he said was he considered the gs but chose another car over it. It wasn't till everyone took exception to it that he defended it. He made a valid comment considering a lot of people are picking other cars over falcons.
With people like you with the maturity of a 5 year old being a moderator here no wonder ford falcon is failing to sell.

i think many may have missed the point flappist was trying to make. this person commented that the GS was not affordable to many and also poor value, but then also passed up on the SSV and bought a hot hatch. so this buyer wasn't really set on a v8 was he? to critisize ford for the way they sell their v8, and then not even buy one.... this is the exact reason ford no longer offer a v8. all the talkers on forums aren't the ones who are putting money down for v8's.

[ray38l]

But he was after a performance car. For someone who is after a performance car and aren't set on one brand it wasn't good value. That is a valid reason as to why the falcon isn't selling. As to why the lower models aren't, well who knows. I personally think the falcon is just coming to the end of its life and no matter what they do to it it won't help.
The only way it could survive is a major styling overhaul. Change the whole style so it doesn't have any styling themes from older falcons. Doing that will **** off the falcon enthusiasts but the enthusiasts aren't buying enough to keep the current falcon going.
I cant see it happening with one ford. Even though my personal preference is holden's i want the falcon to survive because i don't think the commodore will be worth buying without a competitor to give them a kick in the ***.

[prydey]

if he just wanted a performance car, he could've looked at xr6t or g6et, both much cheaper and available with options. if falcon still didn't fit the bill, ford also offer a xr5t in focus and mondeo.

it was just another attempt by someone to have a unnecessary dig at ford. to whinge about the price and value of the v8, and then not even buy a v8....

[burnz]

target marketing, have the econetic ads on facebook, google, twitter.(19~29yrs)
mondeo ads on during the "the circle" "the view"(30~50yrs)
xr6 on during v8sc, f1, rally.(sports orientated)
g6e ads on sunrise, today show.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by burnz

g6e ads on sunrise, today show.

Gotta be better than watching Toni Pearon talk about Dettol...

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by flappist

Unfortunately you missed the point of the post.

The Renault is a high end hatch and priced accordingly but there are entry level hatches for $20k that do most of the things the Renault does except not quite as quick or as many gadgets.

Without going off topic
So they are
1- Not as quick.
2- Not as many gadgets.
But these so called hot hatches are almost as good yeah, i fail to see the logic.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Have the courtesy to understand what's going on before commenting, bogan. His reasons are based off his personal subjective views and shouldn't be shoved down everyone's throats.

He didnt, as you said, he was asked to give reasons to 'justify' his purchase he did.
They were his and yeah they dont sit well with some people (you included) i never seen any forcing of opinion on anyone.
Just because someone went against the grain and didnt buy a Falcon you go on the attack.
A lot of 'other' small cars (Fords included) can do 95% of the things a falcon can do. And they do a lot of things better.
Im a Ford fan through and through but looked at other makes, but lucky for me Ford had something in my 'category' and price range otherwise i probably wouldnt have bought another Ford.
As loyal as iam i would not have bought a Ford that i wouldnt have been happy with just to help their sales.
And before you go on the 'Im anti Falcon bandwagon' too, ive owned 5 Falcons over the last 9 years

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

if he just wanted a performance car, he could've looked at xr6t

friend of mine has an XR6T. bland interior. mediocre seats.

or g6et, both much cheaper and available with options.

overall felt a bit grandpa. hated the seats and no option to improve them. the leather was a joke compared to what I have in my other cars.

if falcon still didn't fit the bill, ford also offer a xr5t in focus and mondeo.

I considered the Focus RS. But in the end, it was ruled out because the Megane did everything the Focus RS did, for a lot less. Power (EVO put one on the dyno, it had more power than claimed, while the Focus had less, not that much between them). Brilliant front end (look up the Focus revo-knuckle and compare it to Renault's perfo-hub, basically the same). Standard equipment (19's, recaros, etc). Handling (every bit as quick as the Focus on track tests, and now holds the production FWD record at the nurburgring).

Please dont tell me what I did and didnt consider when shopping for a car... I know far better than you. The fact I did not go with a Ford doesnt mean it was never considered, it means that after consideration, it didnt win out.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by b0son

I considered the Focus RS. But in the end, it was ruled out because the Megane did everything the Focus RS did, for a lot less. Power (EVO put one on the dyno, it had more power than claimed, while the Focus had less, not that much between them). Brilliant front end (look up the Focus revo-knuckle and compare it to Renault's perfo-hub, basically the same). Standard equipment (19's, recaros, etc). Handling (every bit as quick as the Focus on track tests, and now holds the production FWD record at the nurburgring).

Please dont tell me what I did and didnt consider when shopping for a car... I know far better than you. The fact I did not go with a Ford doesnt mean it was never considered, it means that after consideration, it didnt win out.

And what are the servicing/parts (indeed overall operating) costs for the Renault compared to the Focus?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by new2ford

And what are the servicing/parts (indeed overall operating) costs for the Renault compared to the Focus?

Far less than the price difference between them.

[prydey]

b0son - i'm not arguing with you or presuming to tell you which cars to look at. you didn't mention originally that you had considered other falcon/ford products. you couldn't find one that made you happy so you bought something that did. good for you.

the problem is then condemning ford for not having a product that suited you. guess what, if i wanted a v8 rwd performance car, renault don't have a product for me!

its very easy to stick boots in. ford have a range of products that cover a range of markets. they can't cover everything.