Would legal venues stop hoons?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

So if i take the Falcon for a flog in the national park in the dead of night, what public am i going endanger?

Probably none, but can you guarantee there will be no members of the public there to endanger, absolutely not, if you are allowed in there, so are others.

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

What if i'm excessivly speeding and misjudge a corner and drive straight off the road through the bushes and off the cliff?

Im not a criminal if i drive myself off a cliff am i.

wouldnt be so sure, causing criminal damage to the road surface etc, vegetation etc.

Do I care enough to make a noise about it/, probably not, out of sight out of mind, someone elses problem, cant do everything\.

[Fireblade]

Did you make sure there was no public around you when you went 135kmh?
How did you measure the risk to the public on your hoon escapade?

[MexicanBatman]

Way back when the Calder drags were EVERY Friday night and I used to go all the time, the spectacle was the burnouts that everyone did when leaving, not the racing that had been done legally and moments earlier, you'd be there for ages standing on the side of the road watching people do burnouts when leaving the drags....

So I don't think a venue will do anything, but a few skid pans around the place would be a good thing.... Every now and then I feel like doing a little skid, much more so than trying to prove that my car is faster than the next guys off the lights

[flappist]

Some people really have no idea of the meaning of the word "sarcasm"...

[84xespac]

Originally Posted by flappist

Actually I had an interesting conversation with our then local state member about provision of land to build a motor vehicle complex some years ago.
He was quite against it stating that it is not the purpose of state government to provide infrastructure for hobbyists and further challenged me to find an example of where this had happened.
Being from a fishing area I immediately pointed out boat ramps after which he went very red and had his minders take over the conversation.

There is very little interest in Government to support any project that is not within agenda.

That is a dam good point Flappist. I fish myself but don't own a boat so have absolutely no use what so ever for a boat ramp which has been built with my taxes, and there are hundereds of the buggers around the place. This doesn't take into account sports grounds and public swimming pools which I will never use as if it doesn't have motors involved it isn't sport as far as I am concerned.

[mrbaxr6t]

the problem with this is media spin, don't call them drag strips and burnout pads as this sounds bad in the eyes of joe public call them driver education & training centers where one can learn advanced driving techniques.

that said it is hard to tell if such education & training centers would reduce the occurrence of stupidity on the roads, how many people do you know that are fish asses? if they have to pay to goto a driver education center they plain won't go and the tune will change from "theres nowhere to do it" to "its too expensive to go there"

and Flappist it doesn't stop with "boat ramps" football ovals, public parks soccer grounds and baseball diamonds to name a few where money from the public purse is spent to pander to hobbies but we can't have a driver training and education center

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 84xespac

That is a dam good point Flappist. I fish myself but don't own a boat so have absolutely no use what so ever for a boat ramp which has been built with my taxes, and there are hundereds of the buggers around the place. This doesn't take into account sports grounds and public swimming pools which I will never use as if it doesn't have motors involved it isn't sport as far as I am concerned.

Originally Posted by 84xespac

if it doesn't have motors involved it isn't sport as far as I am concerned.

A sport where you can sit in a comfy chair and let a motor pull one's oversized backside around, yeh regrettably sitting in front of a console on a video game is sport too.

Originally Posted by 84xespac

That is a dam good point Flappist. I fish myself but don't own a boat so have absolutely no use what so ever for a boat ramp which has been built with my taxes, and there are hundereds of the buggers around the place. This doesn't take into account sports grounds and public swimming pools which I will

so if you dont use what govco provides you get compensation to fund something else of your choice?......... .

How much do I get for not using the hospital?


Govco provides funding for things it believes would be a good thing to get people in the community involved in, the activities being social, environmentally responsible, applicable across wide age range, doesnt require huge equipment investment, get people exercising/ educated/libraries/schools, be able to access our landscape and waterways.....roads etc.

Clearly subsidising people to get into auto racing/ hooning whatever isnt one of them and for good reason, it doesnt tick the boxes on many levels.

But sometimes even govco lets down the average punter too, take the F1 that is funded by the victorian taxpayer to the tune of 50 million dollars as well as one of the cities most popular recreational areas put off limits for nearly 2 weeks, as far as Im concerned thats 50 mill + the rest that has already been spent on the motor "sports"

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Govco provides funding for things it believes would be a good thing to get people in the community involved in, the activities being social, environmentally responsible, applicable across wide age range, doesnt require huge equipment investment, get people exercising/ educated/libraries/schools, be able to access our landscape and waterways.....roads etc.

Clearly subsidising people to get into auto racing/ hooning whatever isnt one of them and for good reason, it doesnt tick the boxes on many levels.

But sometimes even govco lets down the average punter too, take the F1 that is funded by the victorian taxpayer to the tune of 50 million dollars as well as one of the cities most popular recreational areas put off limits for nearly 2 weeks, as far as Im concerned thats 50 mill + the rest that has already been spent on the motor "sports"

OKAY what about when Moomba happens - I know many security personnel that work Moomba weekend, and the crowds the barricades and everything else means absolutely zero to a portion of pushbike enthusiasts who despite moomba being in full swing and there being pedestrians everywhere they still travel at a disgusting rate of speed and hurl abuse to the pedestrians because they are "on the bike path" numerous people get hit by bicycles every year and people, sometimes children get injured, legally a "push bike" is a vehicle and their behavior is endangering members of the public (one could argue they are hooning) but year in year out the same crap happens and because they are on a push bike its seemingly okay for them to run into a double pram with two kids under the age of three in it. Do that in a car and you will be promptly lynched. Moomba costs money to "do" and these people rip through the crowd on their bikes, and the "law" allows this? and we cant have a "driver education and training center"

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

A sport where you can sit in a comfy chair and let a motor pull one's oversized backside around, yeh regrettably sitting in front of a console on a video game is sport too.



so if you dont use what govco provides you get compensation to fund something else of your choice?......... .

How much do I get for not using the hospital?


Govco provides funding for things it believes would be a good thing to get people in the community involved in, the activities being social, environmentally responsible, applicable across wide age range, doesnt require huge equipment investment, get people exercising/ educated/libraries/schools, be able to access our landscape and waterways.....roads etc.

Clearly subsidising people to get into auto racing/ hooning whatever isnt one of them and for good reason, it doesnt tick the boxes on many levels.

But sometimes even govco lets down the average punter too, take the F1 that is funded by the victorian taxpayer to the tune of 50 million dollars as well as one of the cities most popular recreational areas put off limits for nearly 2 weeks, as far as Im concerned thats 50 mill + the rest that has already been spent on the motor "sports"

You ever been fishing? Reeled in a 'big fish' that took three (and then some) hours to get onto the boat? And been able to cook that for your dinner and enjoy the fruits of your 'labour' - it's not a leisurely walk in the park. Energy is exerted, muscles are worked...sure sounds like sport to me. It builds team work, and checks all the 'boxes' as such.

Video games are not sport.

Contrary to popular belief (ie the general brainwashed public), cars are 'sport', once again, energy exerted (enough to make you lose weight in the case of the Bathurst drivers), and requires a fair amount of mental dexterity to ensure no stuff ups. It actually requires a brain - sure a hoon doesn't do it in an intelligent manner, and the proper forethought isn't considered, however - have you ever thought about how much control it takes to actually complete a donut? The control you have to have over a vehicle to ensure you don't 'lose it'? Rally cars do it on dirt roads, completely uncontrolled environments, and that seems to be socially acceptable...why is this kind of concept not socially acceptable?

Why on earth would this not get the community involved? Surely not everyone in this country is so narrowminded that they would flat out refuse. The only reason it's not now, is because the loud minority make such a fuss that no government body wants to upset them, and the councillor wants to be re-elected. I'm sorry...but that's neither fair, logical, nor ideal for those who actually enjoy their sport.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Probably none, but can you guarantee there will be no members of the public there to endanger, absolutely not, if you are allowed in there, so are others.



wouldnt be so sure, causing criminal damage to the road surface etc, vegetation etc.

Do I care enough to make a noise about it/, probably not, out of sight out of mind, someone elses problem, cant do everything\.

Well if i go to that particular stretch every night at midnight the odds are that a vehicle will pass me when im there isnt very high.
This time tis a fair argument but untill i go there every night and see for sure i'll let it be.

Criminal damage to the road? Now thats new haha but the damage caused to the road would be negligable. 90% of the time i go through there people exceed the speed limit. I usually do the limit give or take 5 kms and there are always cars piling up behind me or even overtaking.
If they do that on a regular basis (which it seems to be, i frequent that road and see it) has not destroyed the road (which is actually not bad for a NSW road) then one guy going what i would call suicidally fast wont make a lick of difference to the road surface.

[84xespac]

sudszy you are without a doubt the biggest moron I have ever come across on this forum. 99% of the time you have no idea what you are talking about in any of the threads you have posted in and this thread is no exception. I really can't be bothered with you so stuff it I'm not gunna argue.
I was once told by an older wiser person never to argue with idiots because they can't be told and you can never win, and you sir are an idiot.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by sudszy

so if you dont use what govco provides you get compensation to fund something else of your choice?......... .

Thats a nice misrepresentation.

Its not about saving the government in one area so we can get something in another. Its about activities that many taxpayers have no interest in being funded by their tax dollars along with everyone elses, and then being told they have no right to expect equal treatment of their own interests. And the only difference between that same sentence applying to the arts crowd, is no-one in the auto-enthusiast crowd is trying to stop the art crowd enjoying their interest with taxpayers dollars.

There would be more than half the population that wouldnt bat an eyelid if symphony orchestras and operas were not funded by government money, or if they ceased to be held at all. Yet they are, and to the tune of billions (a tad over 1/2 billion a year up to 1999, not including the costs to taxpayers in the tax incentives for private investment in arts, nor the cost of infrastructure like galleries and other venues).

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@....6!OpenDocument

Whats worse, is how that funding is allocated, by peer review. That is, the art community itself decides who is 'worthy'. Talk about open to rorting.


Its not the posters choice, its the choice or more importantly the legitimate interests of a group of citizens, you know, taxpayers.

[Fireblade]

Exactly fmc351, we pay our taxes, we allow the government to support what I consider to be minority hobbies/interests, wheres ours? I pay taxes and to be honest the government doesn't seem to be doing anything that suits me, in laws, infrastructure, funding, I get none, is it unreasonable to expect anything from the money that I have to give involuntary that I work hard for.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

Way back when the Calder drags were EVERY Friday night and I used to go all the time, the spectacle was the burnouts that everyone did when leaving, not the racing that had been done legally and moments earlier, you'd be there for ages standing on the side of the road watching people do burnouts when leaving the drags....

So I don't think a venue will do anything, but a few skid pans around the place would be a good thing.... Every now and then I feel like doing a little skid, much more so than trying to prove that my car is faster than the next guys off the lights

This example above, first paragraph , is the same every event
Mostly cops hang around these events for the monthly quota
Now IF the entrant fee was minimal and the fine for getting busted doin a burnout was tripled from what it is now, would the clowns still do an illegal burnout on the way out ???
Of course some still will (Culling the gene pool , another topic)
But generally it would decrease
$10/$20 fee for legally doin a burnout/skid in a controlled environment
OR
$300 or more on the spot for doin on the streets

Its the same as impounding,selling of or crushing cars , for what purpose
Use these and revenue to build these events
Have them everywhere,Driver education events wont hurt either
Then theres no excuse for it on the street
Do we see many hitting golf balls down a public street, see many kids using skate boards in shopping centres ???
Build it , they will come
IF they dont and are caught, well noone to blame
Im over some pen pusher increasing fines,cause they can, or sneaking speeding cameras and what do we as the general public get back for our hard earned

[No.6]

A lot of no's in here...

My opinion is that if they were to create more public race tracks or strips and turn them into night spots where youths could hang out might actually work, but at the same time hooning laws on public roads needs to be absolutely zero tolerance. If such a place was opened and advertised well and made popular, any person on public roads caught doing 15km and over, accelerating with high speed at a traffic light, caught doing burnouts or racing etc should attract a minimum penalty of 1 -2 years suspended licence and car impounded. Anything considered at the same level has a burnout or racing (maybe 30km over speed limit) or higher on the anti hoon list should have their car destroyed. Make the laws strict, so the hoons are funneled into taking their behaviour off the streets and onto dedicated areas.

People seem to forget that driving is a priviledge, not a god given right.

p.s actually, on second thought, they should make harsher laws on hoons regardless if they create public race tracks.
p.p.s also, when i say public race track, i mean a place where people can do whatever they want in a safe, controlled environment. Do burnouts, drag races, drifting skid pans etc...things that hoons do on public roads. Remember, the aim of such a place is to get the behaviour OFF public roads. It should also be known that any damage to personal property at such an event is at the risk of the owner. Injury should be treated as if they were out on a public road.

[UNR8D]

how about getting some perspective here, hooning "deaths" if you want to believe the stats account for less than 2% of all road fatalities in 2010... it is REALLY that big of an issue? Biggest killer on our roads is inattention and I have put up the charts from 2008 (latest available) showing this on both a national level and VIC in particular.

If funding can be directed to other pass times/hobbies/interest groups then it needs to be fairly spread and that includes motor sport events.

Sudzy... usually arguments are interesting and ideas come from them to improve the situation... your arguments and ideas are like a dog with a cape.

[2011G6E]

The thing is, no one really cares if you do something stupid and off yourself...as long as it's just you...taking a heap of innocent bystanders or passengers with you is poor form.

Having been a motorbike rider for a couple of decades now, I can tell you this sort of behavior is even more prevalent in the bike community. You'll be out on a spirited country ride on a pleasant sunday morning, miles from town, and you'll see guys scoot off ahead and ride like demons, showing some excellent skills as they carve through the bends up ahead, using all of the road.
Which is fine until one of the pack gets a little too spirited and overcooks it, runs wide and finds, say, a family in an XE Falcon in front of them coming the other way quite legally in thier lane, instantly killing both the rider and his wife riding pillion. I know this from personal experience and it's something will haunt me until I die.

"Time and place".

Sure, have your fun on a twisting mountain road or national park run. But don't ever think you can treat it like a racetrack with no one coming the other way and nice kitty-littered run off areas. On a public road, you can never, ever be assured that someone won't be coming the other way, even at 3am on a sunday morning. Yes, the chances are greatly lessened, but you can still never assure yourself that now it's perfectly OK to clip the apexes and use all of the road.

Unfortunately many people don't learn this until it's way too late.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

how about getting some perspective here, hooning "deaths" if you want to believe the stats account for less than 2% of all road fatalities in 2010... it is REALLY that big of an issue? *snip*

As death is sometimes the humane option, I prefer to look at the bigger picture.

Are there stats on those that are injured, incapacitated, quadraplegia etc that die in following years due to complications?

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

As death is sometimes the humane option, I prefer to look at the bigger picture.

Are there stats on those that are injured, incapacitated, quadraplegia etc that die in following years due to complications?

I wouldn't see why not but when everyone talks road toll it means deaths on the road. I will however have a look about and see what information is freely available regarding what you have mentioned.

But regardless, if HOONING is such a small percentage of the death toll, then would you really expect the figures to be skewed when looking at lesser outcomes, by that I mean if "hooning" fatalities are 2% and inattention is 80% (for argument sake) then there would still be more "other injuries" arising from inattention in comparison to hooning.

Sudzy.. you would have more chance going on a date with brownyn bishop then getting a rock in the eye from a HOON in your street... if thats the case then we must ban all B doubles from using through fairs as they seem to throw an awful lot of debris about few stone chips on the front of my car to attest to that, but why stop there... guess we should ban all cars because there is potential for you to reverse over a child in your driveway because you didn't see them... you could run all the theory's in the world it isn't going to make a difference, if an accident occurs you assess it on its merit/facts things that are physically at the scene not a what if or hypothesis.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

Sudzy.. you would have more chance going on a date with brownyn bishop then getting a rock in the eye from a HOON in your street...

not sure if that's a compliment or not?

Originally Posted by UNR8D

Sudzy.. you would have more chance going on a date with brownyn bishop then getting a rock in the eye from a HOON in your street... if thats the case then we must ban all B doubles from using through fairs as they seem to throw an awful lot of debris about few stone chips on the front of my car to attest to that

Sorry, but I disagree, Ive seen the shower of debris come over the footpath when one of these clowns floors it. Do appreciate the wheel speeds here are high,(someone can tell us just how high!) and they are doing this is close proximity to pedestrians etc.
So you have stone chips on the front of your car from highway traffic, would you suggest anyone ride on the front of your car without eye protection, hopefully not, that's just one of many reasons I we dont want B doubles driving down my street at 100km/h or hoons with high wheel speeds.

Im guessing you aren't involved in OHS, perhaps also think about what happens when a tyre fails during a burnout, either partially where it throws out a piece of tread, perhaps eventaking some body work with it or when there is total failure, or even when the rim itself fails, for a taste have a look at:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJquHoclG8.

I believe there has been at least one person killed in this country by a piece of tread ejected in a burnout.

[UNR8D]

wouldn't suggest they would ride on the front of my car, would be against OH& S wouldn't it? oh also hoonish behavior as they wouldn't be restrained properly and would be against the law...*id never do such a disgraceful act to society* (although a select few id make the exception for ;) )

Sudzy I know from previous posts your lazy but hey how about we try this.. go find us the last incident report from a kid/adult getting injured by a flying bit of tyre from a skid done on a suburban street, or same but for a 'shower of rocks'... and I am asking you a serious question here.

We have more incidents of older generation mistaking the accelerator for the brake or not having general control of a motor vehicle in a car park then we do of incidences of "HOONS", the only reason why "HOONS" are getting media attention is due to the agenda of govco and the "win votes with the moronic general public who don't know anything apart from what ACA/TT tells them is the next big epidemic.

[UNR8D]

also in reference to your :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJquHoclG8.

If you have anything to do with WH&S investigating as to why an incident occurred would be one of the major factors.. and since I'm not as "wise" or as "educated" as yourself (according to previous posts you seem to be everyone here intellect wise) then I'm sure you would have worked out the reason for the shards of tyre being spread out so far/or sprayed was the lack of any wheel well and or tray on the Ute. Find me a video of a sedan/wagon/Ute with proper tray throwing a tyre that far.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

not sure if that's a compliment or not?



Sorry, but I disagree, Ive seen the shower of debris come over the footpath when one of these clowns floors it. Do appreciate the wheel speeds here are high,(someone can tell us just how high!) and they are doing this is close proximity to pedestrians etc.
So you have stone chips on the front of your car from highway traffic, would you suggest anyone ride on the front of your car without eye protection, hopefully not, that's just one of many reasons I we dont want B doubles driving down my street at 100km/h or hoons with high wheel speeds.

Im guessing you aren't involved in OHS, perhaps also think about what happens when a tyre fails during a burnout, either partially where it throws out a piece of tread, perhaps eventaking some body work with it or when there is total failure, or even when the rim itself fails, for a taste have a look at:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJquHoclG8.

I believe there has been at least one person killed in this country by a piece of tread ejected in a burnout.

Well if you are so worried about exploding tyres and flying rocks, give them a LEGAL place to do burnouts and that will encourage some of them to get it off the public streets and into somewhere safer.
Who cares if some tax payers don't like it, my tax pays for heaps of stuff I don't like.
People have already discussed that in this thread.

Its really simple,
No legal burnout pads = people doing it on the streets
Legal burnout pad = Some people moving onto the pad, some idiots continue to do it on the streets only.

So EITHER WAY people will do burnouts on the public roads, why are you so against getting some off them off the road. If it saves only one life, its worth it.

[QIK006]

Originally Posted by Ben73

my tax pays for heaps of stuff I don't like.

1. Injecting rooms for heroin users
2. a new set of rims for Anna Blighs Commodore
3. Bribes for the fifa bid
4. new sporting stadiums for failing sporting teams (Gold coast suns are going Sooooo well now that they have a stadium of their own)
5.National broadband scheme

I will continue but they are the 5 that sprung to mind for the rant

[DJR-351]

Other than just posting on here, is anybody actively perusing, through the proper channels that is, the possibility of getting these venues set up...???

Or are you all waiting for someone else to organise this...???

[xisled]

There has been plenty of people who have tried, but they are shot down.

[QIK006]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Other than just posting on here, is anybody actively perusing, through the proper channels that is, the possibility of getting these venues set up...???

Or are you all waiting for someone else to organise this...???

Waiting for someone else, who has the connections, dollars and ability to organise something of this measure.

http://www.placetorace.com.au/ Like Terry Morris and Brett Murray

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I believe there has been at least one person killed in this country by a piece of tread ejected in a burnout.

And there has been plenty of people killed by someone speeding, didn't stop you from doing it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Other than just posting on here, is anybody actively perusing, through the proper channels that is, the possibility of getting these venues set up...???

Or are you all waiting for someone else to organise this...???

Yes have done several times and have managed to get a bit of movement but not enough yet.

If you look up any of the "Noxious Sports Complex" papers from a few years ago trying to get lumps of land with a central shared clubroom, camping and amenity complex with radiating sections for shooting, car, motorbike, 4WD racing, model aircraft etc. clubs to all play without excess costs and potential interaction with residential interests you will see the idea.

Actually the biggest problem there was getting the club superheroes to be nice to each other.

Currently lobbying some of the potential replacements for next year as the incumbents are actively opposed to anything like this.

For a hint check out P5 of the Sunday mail

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by flappist

For a hint check out P5 of the Sunday mail

Gotcha, nuf said....

Edit: By the way good luck in your endeavours....