FG Series II, When? - Page 6

Road_Warrior · 18-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I've seen mules, front bars covered up.

Broadmeadows have built a few runs of them this year.

Aah yes, but those builds would have been done on the pilot line, no? Not the main line.

Bossxr8 · 18-07-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuRT12

How long ago? could they have just been for the FPV motorshow car?

They do builds every now and then, obviously I can't give you dates

The FPV concept would just be an FG with the new bits added to it at FPV, it would not be built as an update model.

Bossxr8 · 18-07-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Aah yes, but those builds would have been done on the pilot line, no? Not the main line.

To start with yes, but being close to release I'd say its likely they are now running them down the main line so they know everything fits and works on line like it should.

krzysiek · 18-07-2011, 09:14 PM

I have a friend who is a second year apprentice at one of the Ford dealerships in Melbourne. I actually called him to see if he had heard anything about the new Lpi Falcon coming out and was sort of expecting him to tell me to 'stay away' as he had some pretty nasty stuff to say about Ford about a year back.

Anyway, he has told me that Ford have fixed up a lot of their issues (of which I don't even really know "which" issues) and that he fully recommends them and the new Lpi falcon. He also said something about them having more power (probably just something he heard I am assuming) than the quoted 198KW. For all intents and purposes, from what I could hear, he said it goes well.

He also said that he believes the new Ford (whatever it might be called, FGII or FH or whatever) will have a similar front grill to the new Terri's. He said he rekons it will look great. I asked how he knew and he told me he was invited to some special Ford event (he told me the name of the place but I have forgotten) for winning some type of competition / being really good at work. He said he wasn't allowed to (no one was) look into the Engine bay or whatever. Didn't ask him too much, didn't want to be annoying - but if it holds anything, perhaps the new Ford's coming out are going to be having the same Terri type grill. Not sure how it will look on a Falcon, but I love the Terri's

FPV GTHO · 18-07-2011, 11:55 PM

Theres been a fair bit of chatter in the EcoLPI thread that the LPI engines are significantly detuned and some dyno figures have shown alot better torque spread than the petrol motor.

kpcart · 19-07-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Theres been a fair bit of chatter in the EcoLPI thread that the LPI engines are significantly detuned and some dyno figures have shown alot better torque spread than the petrol motor.

how the hell could anyone know such a thing??? in real terms for someone test driving the car, the performance in normal driving (ie 1000-2500rpm) will not feel much different in petrol or Lpi mode (or even the egas cars that are still around). the people that will buy an lpg falcon will not care if it has 3% better power at maximum revs (which the driver will never use). all these power and torque NUMBERS are worthless - hence why people then choose a Commodore.

Gobes32 · 19-07-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

how the hell could anyone know such a thing??? in real terms for someone test driving the car, the performance in normal driving (ie 1000-2500rpm) will not feel much different in petrol or Lpi mode (or even the egas cars that are still around). the people that will buy an lpg falcon will not care if it has 3% better power at maximum revs (which the driver will never use). all these power and torque NUMBERS are worthless - hence why people then choose a Commodore.

So what's your solution?

krzysiek · 19-07-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

how the hell could anyone know such a thing??? in real terms for someone test driving the car, the performance in normal driving (ie 1000-2500rpm) will not feel much different in petrol or Lpi mode (or even the egas cars that are still around). the people that will buy an lpg falcon will not care if it has 3% better power at maximum revs (which the driver will never use). all these power and torque NUMBERS are worthless - hence why people then choose a Commodore.

Lol.

too short

FPV GTHO · 19-07-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

how the hell could anyone know such a thing??? in real terms for someone test driving the car, the performance in normal driving (ie 1000-2500rpm) will not feel much different in petrol or Lpi mode (or even the egas cars that are still around). the people that will buy an lpg falcon will not care if it has 3% better power at maximum revs (which the driver will never use). all these power and torque NUMBERS are worthless - hence why people then choose a Commodore.

Go look at the thread, there are users who have been involved in EcoLPi development either from the suppliers end or from Fords end. From memory, there was something like a 60-80nm difference in torque between the engines in the LPi's favour at some point high in the revs. Even down low theres noticeable differences, IIRC 30-40nm more for the LPi around 2000-3000rpm.

KuRT12 · 20-07-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They do builds every now and then, obviously I can't give you dates

The FPV concept would just be an FG with the new bits added to it at FPV, it would not be built as an update model.

Lol, i know - i wasnt implying specific date... more along the lines 1 month ago, 6 months ago or a year ago.

jpd80 · 20-07-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Theres been a fair bit of chatter in the EcoLPI thread that the LPI engines are significantly detuned and some dyno figures have shown alot better torque spread than the petrol motor.

Well, in that case the vehicles are not detuned are they?
I'd say that Ford is continuing its strategy of understating figures like thye do with the FPV V8 Coyote,
it gives competitors and motoring journalists no where to go when the performance is better than expected...

KuRT12 · 20-07-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well, in that case the vehicles are not detuned are they?
I'd say that Ford is continuing its strategy of understating figures like thye do with the FPV V8 Coyote,
it gives competitors and motoring journalists no where to go when the performance is better than expected...

I think he was implying, that even in its detuned state, it is more powerful than the petrol motor.

jpd80 · 20-07-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuRT12

I think he was implying, that even in its detuned state, it is more powerful than the petrol motor.

But is it really detuned if the engine is unreliable or won't meet emissions at the higher state of tune?
I believe the hold up on EcoLPI was to do with this very problem but without an inside nod we'll never know for sure.

Falc'man · 20-07-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Go look at the thread, there are users who have been involved in EcoLPi development either from the suppliers end or from Fords end. From memory, there was something like a 60-80nm difference in torque between the engines in the LPi's favour at some point high in the revs. Even down low theres noticeable differences, IIRC 30-40nm more for the LPi around 2000-3000rpm.

Correct. The fact it makes it's peak power at 1000rpm earlier than the petrol speaks volumes.

FPV GTHO · 20-07-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

But is it really detuned if the engine is unreliable or won't meet emissions at the higher state of tune?
I believe the hold up on EcoLPI was to do with this very problem but without an inside nod we'll never know for sure.

What ive been told is the full-tune EcoLPi would need the V8 diff and gearbox to pass durability, and Ford would need to charge alot more than $2500 to cover that.

R1XSTA · 21-07-2011, 10:14 AM

Its hard to believe with all this talk that a new model is coming out in close to 2 months that they haven't realised a single photo, no talk about it, or anything being said..

Is there any actual proof of this happening within ~1 year

Bossxr8 · 21-07-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1XSTA

Its hard to believe with all this talk that a new model is coming out in close to 2 months that they haven't realised a single photo, no talk about it, or anything being said..

Is there any actual proof of this happening within ~1 year

Ford PR have mentioned it themselves in a few articles. They are keeping it quiet because they have a few thousand current model Falcons they want to clear before the update is released, and showing pics now may compromise that if people who are unaware of the update hold out for the new model.

I saw a G6E mule with the front covered yesterday, wheels were spray painted black to hide the design but I was just a little bit too far away to make out the design of them.

Windsor220 · 21-07-2011, 10:38 AM

They probably dont want to take the shine off the new Territory and the gas engine thats coming out.

KuRT12 · 22-07-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

They probably dont want to take the shine off the new Territory and the gas engine thats coming out.

True, but i am eager to hear news as i am holding off for series II

jpd80 · 22-07-2011, 09:44 PM

I suspect that Ford is readying the XR8 for arrival with FG II

but will be a crate NA Coyote mated to ZF and TR8080 gearboxes...Hmmm???????

Oops........(don't tell Holden)

Bossxr8 · 23-07-2011, 11:59 AM

Tr6060?

KuRT12 · 23-07-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Tr6060?

Yes, he posted same thing in a thread and it was a typo.

Doodlemax · 23-07-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No I don't have a gripe with the FG, just Ford. Ford need FG2 stand out. It beggars believe that the dark side can keep the same styling for 5 years and still sell the dunnydore!!!! and Ford cann't, sell the Falcon, it could be put down to very poor advertising, dealers (I have had no problems with Metro Ford, Newstead) or a number of factors. Have Ford looked at why the Falcon isn't selling????? Lets hope the FG2 flies when released......

It's not the Car that makes the commodore popular, it's the brand perception that Holden have created by never deviating from the plan for the last 30 odd years. Never dropping the V8. Making small but positive steps in one direction. It's the work done in the last two decades that has elevated the brand to today's success. The VE isn't half bad either, but it's much like the Hilux, not the best ute by a long shot but the most popular thanks to its consistent and incremental history.

You can just about set your watch by the Hilux models (the new on due out soon is only cosmetic changes, same engines which means the first new shape Hilux will be as valuable as the latest model).

Ford on the other hand... so many holes in Falcons history I don't know where to start. Great car (by far the best in it's class), poor public perception and reputation (and shiiit resale). :(

phillyc · 23-07-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodlemax

It's not the Car that makes the commodore popular, it's the brand perception that Holden have created by never deviating from the plan for the last 30 odd years. Never dropping the V8. Making small but positive steps in one direction. It's the work done in the last two decades that has elevated the brand to today's success. The VE isn't half bad either, but it's much like the Hilux, not the best ute by a long shot but the most popular thanks to its consistent and incremental history. :(

Well, GM Holden did in fact plan to permanently drop the V8 for the VL. It was a public petition for "V8's til '98" which made the decision temporary. When it returned, it came back with, 122kW/323Nm... Commodore still had a gap of nearly 12 months without a V8. Leaving the VL Turbo as the hero of the range. Sound familiar...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodlemax

Ford on the other hand... so many holes in Falcons history I don't know where to start. Great car (by far the best in it's class), poor public perception and reputation (and shiiit resale). :(

The resale value is according to REDBOOK better for the Falcon pretty much across the range. The resale may in fact be a virtual or real loss depending on when you buy in the model cycle. The resale figure is based off the full RRP. The RRP of a Falcon XR6 is $45k. They are advertised for $34,990. So a 23k resale value at 3 years is actually pretty good.

Doodlemax · 24-07-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Well, GM Holden did in fact plan to permanently drop the V8 for the VL. It was a public petition for "V8's til '98" which made the decision temporary. When it returned, it came back with, 122kW/323Nm... Commodore still had a gap of nearly 12 months without a V8. Leaving the VL Turbo as the hero of the range. Sound familiar...

But I bet that most people, including me don't know that and think that like many things that Holden does it better, and is the one to go for. We all know that's no the truth but you have to be almost 'star wars' nerd level to know most of these facts. And I personally think this makes a big difference to why Holden's brand is perceived better compared to Ford.

Thanks for pointing that out, I would never have known. BTW how do you know that!?! I am impressed

Doodlemax · 24-07-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

The resale value is according to REDBOOK better for the Falcon pretty much across the range. The resale may in fact be a virtual or real loss depending on when you buy in the model cycle. The resale figure is based off the full RRP. The RRP of a Falcon XR6 is $45k. They are advertised for $34,990. So a 23k resale value at 3 years is actually pretty good.

I can choose from 350 1 year old FG XR6s in Qld on carsales alone right now and many (at least 50) are for $25K driveaway. That's $10K in one year or less based on the DISCOUNTED price, its nearly $20K in one year if you pay full RRP. Pretty bad when my five year old "other brand" car is worth the same and cost $40K when new.

Personally I ignore Redbook, I have not been able to replicate their claims when buying or selling (sometimes improving their claims though). But that's just me.

I don't think I will buy a 'new' XR6 for $34,990 when I can buy an 'near new' one year old under 20,000km of the exact same car for $10K less. Would you?

Other than that I would buy one because they are a great family car and cheap but I think the 'cheap' part is false economy because I will lose so much more come change over (and have to compete with so many second hand models for sale). Shame but reality.

I feel many people don't want to think ahead come resale because it's hard to fathom an non tangible cost. But once you have had a few new cars and changed them over you realise how important resale is and how futile saving fuel is in comparison (I'd have a V8 over a Diesel if the resale was better). For me if the FG could hold it's value like some other cars than it would be one of the best cars in the world, not Australia.

Holden suffers from this too though (and other Brands).

Bossxr8 · 25-07-2011, 08:09 PM

Seems Ford don't want to release a new model with a lot of unsold older versions laying around.

Ecoboost launch was announced for release in January/Febuary. Could be something in that.

Bossxr8 · 29-07-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Seems Ford don't want to release a new model with a lot of unsold older versions laying around.

Ecoboost launch was announced for release in January/Febuary. Could be something in that.

Disregard.

Excess stock is nearly all gone.

FPV GTHO · 30-07-2011, 01:01 AM

Thats always good news. This is the stock that built up on the lawn around the factory or just dealer stock?

Bossxr8 · 30-07-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Thats always good news. This is the stock that built up on the lawn around the factory or just dealer stock?

Both.

They consider excess stock to be cars on grass at Broady and dealer stock, they want a certain number of days of stock, and they are pretty close now. Should be where they want to be within a month.

Good timing getting it all cleared out before the update.