Fpv

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So, what GT was essentially not a tarted up falcon?

EB and EL GT's werent - they were true 'limited edition' GT's in that a number of their parts are model specific, and the EL especially cannot be copied or replicated to a point where you could mistakenly assume it's genuine.

HSV do a similar thing with their taillights and this was deliberately done to throw off the 'fakers' - most won't go to the trouble of changing panels to get it to look 'legit'.

[Nikked]

So, FPV should do what HSV do?

The EL is about the biggest effort Tickford have done...but, it's limited edition.

Surely selling more cars is the priority, rather then changing things for the sake of it?

Remember, HSV have got a bigger budget then FPV. And FPV have worked wonders on building an awesome package with a killer engine.

[pottery beige]

GT is and always will be a tarted up falcon....

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Remember, HSV have got a bigger budget then FPV.

HSV have a bigger budget because they can build a car that people want to purchase - something FPV have trouble doing.
The numbers speak for themselves.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So, FPV should do what HSV do?

Given they are direct competitors - would it not be logical to think they would have some common ideas and directions?

The EL is about the biggest effort Tickford have done...but, it's limited edition.

AU3 T series outsold EL by about 3 to 1. Still limited edition, still had parts that made it very difficult to copy.

Surely selling more cars is the priority, rather then changing things for the sake of it?

Yes it is but you are unlikely to sell cars unless you listen to the people you want to buy the cars you produce! Now stone me because I don't own one, but every single point I put forward in my original post has been discussed on these very forums by actual owners of these vehicles at length.

Remember, HSV have got a bigger budget then FPV. And FPV have worked wonders on building an awesome package with a killer engine.

They may well do but there is more to the car than just the engine.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b2tf

So a little disclaimer before I post.

No, I do not own an FPV.
Yes, I have driven lots of FPV's.
No, I will not be buying one anytime soon.
Yes, I would love to buy one - one day.

Three things come to mind when looking at the current FPV range:

1) They do not make enough vehicles - no utes other than F6. We've covered this a zillion times before but fact is lots of people (and theyre the ones with the money) WANT a v8 ute. The only option they have is a GS or a Maloo, and the GS is essentially a base model with a big engine.

2) The styling is polarising - but this can also be said about HSV. In my opinion the best era that both FPV and HSV had in terms of styling was the early 2000's - VY and VZ HSV looked tough and BA and BF FPV looked great also.

3) The price is high for what is (shock horror) essentially a tarted up Falcon. Call me what you like, say what you will, but it's my opinion and if I was in a position to buy it would be weighing heavily on my mind. I owned an FG XR8, was a great car. But one of the first things I noticed was that apart from the buldge there is little that seperated it from it's XR and G series cousins - the front bar, that's it. And in FPV form that is even more evident.
We all know what a weapon the Coyote is and I dont think anybody would argue it was a bad move for FPV to bring it in - it's nice to be on top in terms of power, but - and this has been commonly said amongst reviews also - the package is unifinished. We still have carryover wheels 8" wide (and sorry, no amount of vinyl justifies a 'special edition' where the major change is wheel width), we still have suspension that doesn't cope with putting the power down, we still have low spec interiors and utes getting short changed (and thats if they even bother to build them).

As i said, I am not an FPV owner. But I'm a brand enthusiast, I'm someone who uses forums and looks at these models and knows what he likes. And some day I'd love to pull out the cheque book and drive out in a brand new Super Pursuit (oh wait) optioned with wider wheels (oh wait) and no frigging racoon eyes (oh wait). I for one am hoping that any changes that might be going on at FPV right now bring about some new direction and perhaps a bit more enthusiasm, instead of seemingly continually accepting limitations.

Well I have to agree that the shortage of model options has lost me twice after buying 3 FPVs in a row.

In 2008 I wanted to buy the FG version of a Force 6 but was told by FPV that the F6E was not going to be released and I had no interest in "racoon hoon" so I bought a $75k car of a different marque.
Recently I went to buy a ute and as there was no SP, the F6 was $20k dearer than the XR6T for not a huge difference and the GS was $15k dearer than XR6T for what is basically just a XR6 with V8, FPV missed out again.

I had no problem with the prices other than if I am going to spend premium money it will be on what I WANT not a compromise.

[Wretched]

I think the shake up will be a positive.
No I don't own a FPV, nor do I desire to though I have driven them.

Yes I think the engine in the V8 is spectacular just like the I6T in the F6.
Married up to the ZF 6spd these are fantastic. Unfortunately in my opinion this is where it ends.

The chassis of the donor car even with the work by FPV cannot handle that kind of power. Launching the car is tricky and the handling for what is supposed to be a "performance" sedan just doesn't kick it.

For the extra dollars asked for I'd be expecting a little more than just an explosive engine. Forget the stripes and exterior bling, I'd like to see FPV release an overall package. I am not comparing to HSV.

So they have the engine right, next is to give the chassis a good tweaking, allow it to handle that power, put it to the ground. I am not expecting a circuit machine but something that easily be taken to a track and not make you sick going round it. Next would be the interior, I'm sorry but I don't like the seats in FPVs, very little in lateral support, the recaros in my XR5 run rings around those offered in the FPVs. As these cars require a premium paid how about offering a premium interior? Just lacks the quality feel and look.

Hopefully with the shakeup and hopefully some cross sharing with SVT or a similar inter-Ford performance arm will give them the resources required.

I don't expect AMG or M-sport capabilities or quality for the $$ but if people are labeling FPV and HSVs as world class then there is some kind of expectation of world class quality, i'm sorry but I don't see it currently.

The next couple of months/years will be interesting. I hope FPV do a 180 and really shine.

[Shonky.]

a lot of people are suggesting that current FPV owners in this thread are elitist or over defensive of our purchase or that there is suggestion you are not entitled to an opinion without owning one.

The fact is the value in the cars comes from drive, the grunt and the potential to go seriously quick for relatively few $'s (there are a handful of guys about to run high 10's with just boost, injectors and coolers)

without experiencing this other than from behind a keyboard it is a bit hard to take the criticisms seriously.

if you have taken one for a good drive and still think it is poor value, then I respect that, but if you say it is poor value without doing so then I think you deserve the scorn of those who have

I wanted a fast no nonsense car. I don't want all the rest of the stuff people are missing from it.

Sure, point out the absence of the extra "stuff" but recognise that the trade off is a ton of grunt and potential. If you don't want that then fine. Enjoy your 3 series or whatever you think is better. At least rather than run it down for being so slow I can recognise that it is well built, has a nice stereo etc etc. Just not for me

[GTPete]

Hard crowd to please, 12 sec car out of the box, doesnt overheat, stock idle, plenty of horsepower left for those that want to mod. GT blood line.
Middle 50k for a good used one with factory warranty.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Middle 50k for a good used one with factory warranty.

You miss the point.
You need people to buy them NEW first.
Secondhand vehicle market does nothing for FPV's books.

[Charliewool]

As a 2 time FPV owner (BA Pursuit & BF Typhoon) may I make a few observations?

I remember way back when I went to FPV's 1st open day (I think it was 2003?) I remember seeing their "mini engine building line" for the Boss 260 & Boss 290 and their numerous 2 post hoists, where they added bodykits, brakes and wheels etc, as well as doing the turbo bits on the XR's and thinking it all looked like a bit of a backyard setup considering it's one of the world's largest car makers behind this? (but it's all new and in it's infant stages I also thought)

At the time I was waiting for my Pursuit.. My dream ute.. 290Kws of double overhead cam badness that'd put HSV back in their box once and for all.

A couple of months earlier in Dec 02 I'd bought my other half a XR6T sedan, which as soon as I set eyes on and drove I'd fallen for... Talk about Whooo Hooo.. Did this thing get up and boogie! And only a SIX!

My God.. Think of ANOTHER 50Kws and 80NMs that my dream Pursuit was going to possess! Not to mention U beaut performance brakes and luxurious interior... Isn't the 4 or 5 month wait going to be worth it!!

Know what?.. To this day, it was the greatest disappointment in my car life.

The stock turbo ran rings around the barge. "Luxurious"?.. apart from 2 tweeters in the A pillars, the same basic crap sound system as the XR. Brakes? Pretty blue painted PBRs and buggarall difference from the XR. $59,450 worth? Not on your life!... But I persisted, Rob Herrod put his extractors, cats and full system on, a BMC filter and widemouth CAI, as well as a short shifter (to find 3rd) AND STILL the XRT was the much better package!

So I gave up.. 12 months to the day I sold the Pursuit for 39k (and was bloody lucky to get a buyer) A 23k hit in exactly 12 months!! (a fortune to me in 2004)
I then took over the XRT until it hit the 100 thousand k mark.
Happened to be at City Ford one day and drove a demo ZF equipped Typhoon.. Long story short, 32k changeover to get out of the ageing XRT and into a 900k BF Typhoon demo, which I did (and after vowing 3 yrs prior to never fall into a FPV again) Anyhow, It was a great car in the 4 yrs I tortured the poor thing.
Come sale time.. private buyer 21k... (with dealers offering 15-16) Once again a hefty hit.. but nowhere near what it'd have been had I paid the then going rate of 64k for a brand new Typhoon.
Now I'm back in just a Falcon 50th turbo ute, which at 39k brand new, with mountains more go than my old barge Pursuit, with oodles more luxury and refinement than my Typhoon, and even with similar depreciation to my past FPVs won't bite nearly as deep.
I'm far from knocking FPV's newest supercharged beast.. In fact, I'd love one!... BUT, no way will they get me again!
A FMCo produced miami based vehicle?.. Absolutely!.. But another FPV, never! Not for a 15k plus premium
BTW, I like Polyals post... Hit the nail for me. Well put!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Hard crowd to please, 12 sec car out of the box, doesnt overheat, stock idle, plenty of horsepower left for those that want to mod. GT blood line.
Middle 50k for a good used one with factory warranty.

before the warriors chime in about 1/4 mile times.. its what plants your *** in the seat..

where else can you get those numbers.. big boofy aussie sedan ftw.. be happy embrace it while it lasts..

GT.. you either get it or you dont..

[GTPete]

Originally Posted by davway

You miss the point.
You need people to buy them NEW first.
Secondhand vehicle market does nothing for FPV's books.

Not really, Ive always argued that new they were priced a little high for my liking. Retail new for 60 - 65K sub 60 on a low km demo. Who knows in saying that we are in a very tight financial period, not a lot equity out there. Price is key in this market.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

At the time I was waiting for my Pursuit.. My dream ute.. 290Kws of double overhead cam badness that'd put HSV back in their box once and for all.

And that's what an FPV should do - inspire the owner or purchaser to want to drive it and drive it well.

A couple of months earlier in Dec 02 I'd bought my other half a XR6T sedan, which as soon as I set eyes on and drove I'd fallen for... Talk about Whooo Hooo.. Did this thing get up and boogie! And only a SIX!

The 6T is both the best and the worst thing that has ever happened to FPV. It is great because they now have a huge new market that was once not considered to be 'true' performance cars (i'm talking 6cyls here) but its also a downfall because they now rest on their laurels with it and neglect the V8 range. Again case in point being the FPV ute range - 1x 6T and 1x V8 that is arguably not on the same par as the sedan range.

Now I'm back in just a Falcon 50th turbo ute, which at 39k brand new, with mountains more go than my old barge Pursuit, with oodles more luxury and refinement than my Typhoon, and even with similar depreciation to my past FPVs won't bite nearly as deep.
I'm far from knocking FPV's newest supercharged beast.. In fact, I'd love one!... BUT, no way will they get me again!
A FMCo produced miami based vehicle?.. Absolutely!.. But another FPV, never! Not for a 15k plus premium
BTW, I like Polyals post... Hit the nail for me. Well put!

Evolution dictates that newer vehicles will always outdo older and more expensive vehicles, HSV were very good at shafting their buyers in the LS1 days by upping the power levels midway through model runs (VY1 vs VY2 is a good example). What evolution doesn't take into account is the massive hit most owners will cop on the value of their cars, some of whom will find it out when they go to upgrade to the new model and get put off because of it. The fact that the XR6T, XR50T models etc make more financial sense to a lot of people than what a new FPV does (see flappists point above) makes it very difficult for FPV to command the prices that they do for the vehicles they produce. Hence my point about increasing the 'special' or limited features these cars should have - not just adding extra vinyl and asking for a premium.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Hard crowd to please, 12 sec car out of the box, doesnt overheat, stock idle, plenty of horsepower left for those that want to mod. GT blood line.
Middle 50k for a good used one with factory warranty.

Yep...


But apparently it needs different tail lights

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yep...


But apparently it needs different tail lights

Going off your avatar if the 'I6 is best' - why didn't you just buy an EL GLi instead of an XR? Same engine. Or did you want a bit more of a 'special' car?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Going off your avatar if the 'I6 is best' - why didn't you just buy an EL GLi instead of an XR? Same engine. Or did you want a bit more of a 'special' car?

No, i saw it for sale one weekend and bought it, good buy. Mint interior, sunroof and 5-speed.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

where else can you get those numbers..

why are those numbers so important? great for bragging rights, but unless you like throwing $70k down on a whim, you're going to be just a little more discerning when it comes time to purchase.... you're going to look at things like interior comfort, satnav, audio system, etc. Ford/FPV have always been behind the 8-ball in this area. as such, they continue to sell only to the faithful. i suspect a lot more people defect to HSV rather than from them.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by davway

You miss the point.
You need people to buy them NEW first.
Secondhand vehicle market does nothing for FPV's books.

Just as well, is it me or does this seem unbelieivably cheap for a FG GT ?
http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/item/...edan/602089542

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Just as well, is it me or does this seem unbelieivably cheap for a FG GT ?
http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/item/...edan/602089542

Hmmm...redraw on the homeloan...

[Charliewool]

Basically, unless an FPV vehicle is vastly superior in ALL areas over it's donar Falcon then I can't see survival.
Our (for now) 3 car makers are already barely keeping afloat.. How can a stand alone "sticker and spoiler" company that commands huge premiums over a standard product that's made over Sydney Rd be expected to also survive?
If Ford put a Miami in a Falcon, it's curtains for FPV I'm afraid... (and maybe that's WHY there hasn't been an XR8 yet?)

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by b0son

why are those numbers so important? great for bragging rights, but unless you like throwing $70k down on a whim, you're going to be just a little more discerning when it comes time to purchase.... you're going to look at things like interior comfort, satnav, audio system, etc. Ford/FPV have always been behind the 8-ball in this area. as such, they continue to sell only to the faithful. i suspect a lot more people defect to HSV rather than from them.

lols.. keep punching that keyboard..

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Basically, unless an FPV vehicle is vastly superior in ALL areas over it's donar Falcon then I can't see survival.
Our (for now) 3 car makers are already barely keeping afloat.. How can a stand alone "sticker and spoiler" company that commands huge premiums over a standard product that's made over Sydney Rd be expected to also survive?
If Ford put a Miami in a Falcon, it's curtains for FPV I'm afraid... (and maybe that's WHY there hasn't been an XR8 yet?)

so you had a bad experience.. condolences.. move on..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Just as well, is it me or does this seem unbelieivably cheap for a FG GT ?
http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/item/...edan/602089542

No that is actually pretty good money for a 4 year old GT.

[pottery beige]

while we're at it.. a lot of car for the money..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11367185

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

while we're at it.. a lot of car for the money..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11367185

Pretty good for a "sticker and spolier" company...

[Elks]

Originally Posted by davway

HSV have a bigger budget because they can build a car that people want to purchase - something FPV have trouble doing.
The numbers speak for themselves.

I have no idea what the relative development budgets are, but HSV have a massive advantage in that they basically pick up an existing GM crate motor. Yes they have to certify it etc but that is a fraction of the cost of what FPV do with a mix of Ford and bespoke parts all assembled locally.

Even if they ran on the same budget, which I highly doubt, that would still leave HSV engineering funds free to develop things like the MRC, track pack data, bling, awful body kits and fairy lights.

The good thing about where FPV find themselves now is having spent the $40m on the engine it will see them through the next 4 years maybe with some minor tweeks, so they can introduce improvements other than drive train.

[Bossxr8]

There are some serious misconceptions about how FPV is doing in this thread, based on a few people being moved on.

As far as i'm aware FPV sales are pretty good, they are not coping an absolute hammering like Ford are.

Why are people adding 1+1 and getting 20, and assume FPV are struggling just because they wanted a change at the top.

God this rubbish really grinds my gears, how about people starting basing things on FACTS rather than BS assumptions. V8 builds are the highest I have seen them for a while, good solid numbers every day.

And with a couple of new models very close to going on sale its only going to improve, there is an GS LE which must only be weeks away, and then the Hi-po model later on.

[Motorbreath310]

What Elks has just said is what I've been hoping for from FPV. Not that I'm a new buyer or anything, but it'd be nice if FPV finished their cars off alot better.

Seems like this rumoured new model is going to address the issue of needing more rubber. Good. I reckon the next area they seriously need to address is the interior. I reckon part of what makes the E3 HSV's seem like such a good package is in their presentation.

First off, the dark headlining. Adds a darker, classier, and subjectively more expensive feel to the car. Easy upgrade.

Secondly, different materials and surfaces. You look in a new HSV or even a series II SV6-SSV and they feature gloss black trim around the console, knurled alloy-look knobs and usually either a silver or carbon fibre-style trim insert on the dash. Again, may be tacky in some regard but they make the whole thing seem a fair bit nicer.

Won't comment on the exterior other than to say the FG is subtle and smooth, and the VE is not.

All these little things add up and in most cases make the HSV's seem like such a better buy. Most buyers won't care about power potential or time slips. It'd help if people knew what an FPV was in the first place also.

All that said, how good they look and sound in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZxjsKbF9c8

EDIT: Just found this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqCw2...eature=related

Just found FPV's new marketing campaign.

[SpoolMan]

You need stop posting for the sake of building your post count, some people want this thread to stay open and have a mature discussion about FPV the rest can find there entertainment else where.
This IS NOT AN FPV BASHING THREAD.