Post-2016 Falcon News and Discussion.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

No doubt one thing we all have in common is we love the blue oval especially the Falcon, we all have questions on there marketing direction but like any business you must spend the money where its going to make you the most money.

I have read on here where members don't like the Territory advert, its the one where the young lady is going to visit all her friends on facebook.
I discussed this add with my step dad and brother they have a marketing company and my step dad has been in marketing all his life and they think in todays marketing strategies this add is very relevant and said he would bet its a successful add being pitched at its potential buyers, a SUV that gets 1000 klm's to the tank, ''big family SUV vehicle thats good on fuel'' is what every family wants..
Here is the full add, I think its very good..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19o2pNJHgoQ

Agree with you there spooly

If the terry had the room I needed i would have bought one in a flash but the 7 seater just didnt have the room in the back for the pram we have ( i would have got second hand B.T.W ) so had to settle on the carnival I have just purchased

maybe in 5 or so years I just might be able to get a terry or even step back into a falcon sedan new

[P6LTD351]

Thank you for contributing to the forum Sinead. I'm sure I speak for everyone here in saying that we appreciate you touching base with the fans.

Please stick with us. We are a passionate lot, and at times it can get a little bit crazy, but we all have one thing in common - our passion for Ford in Australia.

Thanks again,

Andrew

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

An article from 2006.

At the 2007 Detroit Auto Show, Ford will unveil a four-door, rear-wheel-drive concept car. The concept, known as "The Interceptor", is based on the Mustang’s rear-wheel-drive architecture and will be a preview of the Ford Mustang sedan that will go on sale starting 2011.
link
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/20...n-ar18009.html

I don't know why the designers were way off with this , as the INTERCEPTOR concept mainly became the TAURUS not a 4 door stang?????

[Moby Vic]

Ford North America has a history of doing wild, really cool concept cars simply to introduce certain styling elements for much more mundane production cars.

I actually preferred the production 2005 Mustang over its concept version, though.

I'd love to hear from Ms. Phipps anything about potential export of future Falcons to the US, but I'm sure that cannot be discussed.

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But that's it, the change in market cannot be stemmed, let alone reversed, this is permanent change.

I think there is some truth to this, however I remain hopeful of some stemming and turnaround for Falcon as I believe it is possible and essential to keep falcon post-2016.

The landscape has changed, but there is still a market for passenger cars & light commercials that aren't SUV's. The fact that Ford Australia has an SUV in Territory built of the same plaform as a sedan seems like a pretty good strategy to me, and one that has to be maintained if local manufacturing is to continue (post-2016). The falcon is basically competing across both the medium/large segments, because (in my opinion) vehicle sizes are pretty much the same these days.

Clearly the problem for Ford Oz is the 'sedan' in this partnership is losing marketshare, whilst the SUV is thriving. Ultimately though, if you've ever sat in a Territory, it is a 'falcon' SUV and many customers are more than happy with what it offers. So on that basis it would seem to me that the essence of what is a Falcon is still acceptable to many consumers.

It's great to see & hear from Sinead that Ford are trying to get the 'Falcon' message out there, but I still believe that the general consumers just don't appreciate/understand exactly how the Falcon of 2012 differs from the ones 20/10/5 years ago and just how much improved they actually are and people aren't walking into dealerships to find out. EcoLPI and Ecoboost are probably the key technologies that set it apart and should be the hooks for people to ask themselves "That sounds good, I need to find out more". I suppose having a sub-$50K performance sedan that can streak 0-100kph in 5s isn't a bad hook either.

Anyway, just my thoughts and I am trying not to digress from the core topic of falcon post-2016.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

I think there is some truth to this, however I remain hopeful of some stemming and turnaround for Falcon as I believe it is possible and essential to keep falcon post-2016.

Well, the fact that Ford is developing a 2014 Falcon with significant upgrades to both equipment and appearance
says that Ford hasn't given up on Falcon. Stability is the key here more than numbers, with a sales mix of 50/50 above
and below $40K, the equation is much different to say all products 75-80% below $40K and when you add in Territory,
that equation drifts even further above $40K side of the line..

[csv8]

The 2014 Falcon does need significant upgrades to match the Koreans, Japanese, Chrysler and other Euro's. I compared the 300C to the G6E and the G6E is povo pack, in comparison. It will be interesting to see what they change/upgrade in 2014 then factor in the VF....

[XWGT]

Welcome Sinead and thanks for your contribution to the forum. Your time and input are valued and its not often an organisation will put themselves this close to the front lines.

A question I would have for you regarding Falcon post 2016 is what exactly are Ford HQ thoughts and opinion on the local product? It always appears to me that falcon has actually survived against the odds considering Fords global model policy. Putting financials aside for a moment are you able to let us know if there is a level of support from HQ at an engineering level and product level that may see extra efforts made to continue to develop the platform or is the local product, or is it really a regional only effort at the moment?

[Brazen]

PS Sinead, if you ever need a good looking man in one of your promotions, feel free to use me. I have been favourably compared to as a cross between Willem Dafoe and Philip Seymore Hoffman.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I don't watch TV Ads, and this trend is growing. How do you propose Ford advertise EcoBoost or any of their products to people like me?

At what point should Ford consider alternative marketing methods when the cost and return on that cost is prohibitive when you're talking TV ads?

Oh that's right, they've got an bottom less pit of money, they can advertise anywhere, all the time!

I'm sure Sinead can explain in detail if she chooses, but the issue is far deeper and more complex than just marketing of Falcon or Ecoboost alone.

A very good point, I've upgraded my home ent. system to time shift/record and everything else to AVOID advertising.

I'm on the road 50% of my working time so radio is where I get my immediate news and the best way to reach me ad wise, I'm in front of a pc and on the net far, far longer then any time in front of the TV and when I watch TV it's the back log of recorded programs which allows me to skip ads. If not for the Fox Footy channel I would watch even less TV as free-to-air is the least watched media in my house and I mean less then 30 mins per week.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Isn't it supposed to be when your product is struggling you fight like hell and spend more on promotion to try to stem the tide. Ford have just laid back and taken it, like they have just given up and excepted their fate without a whimper.

Holden would never do that with the Commodore.

Could not disagree with this point more.

There are usually reasons that a product struggles - more than simply advertising and marketing.

Firstly - let me state I am a fan/owner of the Falcon (though the most recent one I own is an AU) and I am not likely to be in the market for a Falcon any time soon.

Let me put it to you this way. Back in the 1970s / 1980s Sedan & Station Wagons were kings. You could do almost anything with a large Sedan, they were big enough inside for (most) families, and the station wagons were bigger again and could cater for (again - most) bigger families. Even the 1990s the large car (be it Falcon/Commodore - whatever) was a good seller because everyone wanted and needed one.

The basic formula for the large car has stayed the same and been very good for a very long time.

Fast forward to today - you have SUVs all over the place that can do exactly what a large sedan does - and more. The problem is - that a large sedan can't do what an SUV does. And this is part of the reason why the volume of sales across the board for large cars has dropped.

Also consider the fact that the medium car market has increased in both volume and competitors. The Mondeo is about 1 inch smaller than the Falcon in most dimensions - yet it is a 'medium' car. The small car segment has also grown in popularity - and so have the size of the vehicles. (Did you know that today's Corolla is actually larger than the first Camry?)

So really Small Cars are now basically Medium - and mediums are basically Large - and potentially take sales from the Large segment because they are so close - catch my drift?

20 Years ago - people listened to cassette tapes and watched VHS videos. Then technology evolved. And now we don't use those great products anymore. Sure they were great 20 years ago (when there wasn't so many alternatives) but now we've moved forward and let go of the things from the past that certainly worked and did the job - we've just got things that do it better now.

Sadly - the Falcon may just be like that. You could saturate advertising all over the place - but that alone won't make the market grow. The format has been swallowed up by other segments and the MASSIVE amount of choice that we now have in Australia.

Everything that is happening to the Falcon today, will be happening to the Commodore tomorrow. It's not exclusively a Falcon problem - its a Large Car problem.

I could go on and on and on about this - but I don't want to sound negative (there is enough of that going on). And I certainly don't want ANYTHING I've written to be taken negatively either - but its realistic.

Thats just my 2 cents - for whatever thats worth.

[Mad_Pom]

I would also add that it might be an issue of being a sedan.

If I want to purchase a small bar fridge, with a sedan I would need a trailer or need to pay for delivery.

With an SUV - you just throw it in the back.

More worrying - in a small hatch (like a Fiesta). fold forward the back seats and slide it through the hatch.

I personally would never purchase a sedan, so that points me to a hatch or SUV.

Again - personal preference

[Brazen]

Bloody hell, people are actually advocating not advertising the Falcon? Now I have heard it all!

Ford AU doesnt import the Falcon, it builds it here. When sales are slow, they cant just simply hold off their orders from Thailand - instead they are manufacturing a vehicle in a production facility that craves volume. They are forced to keep Falcon production going.

The fact is, yes large cars are down - BUT, large cars revolve around two vehicles, one is the Commodore which is 6 years old and desperate need of a change, the other is the Falcon which is being neglected by the market.

There are a couple of problems, large vehicles are too expensive and I have not seen successful advertising in years advocating the many benefits of a large car. It is almost as if Ford is a bit ashamed that the Falcon is a large sedan - and hence they dont actually remind buyers of all the great things of having a large rear-wheel drive car in the driveway.

Pricing the Falcon at a lower starting point for the base model will get people at least putting it on their shopping list, once through the door the dealer can upsell them into a XR6 or higher. As it stands, the Falcon XT is easily the most wasted vehicle on market today - it serves no purpose and is an utter failure in situating the Falcon at a price point that can get some mid-size and SUV buyers interested.

Advertising and marketing the vehicle is also lacking for a vehicle that needs to sell a certain amount per year to keep the factory ticking over. It is getting nearly 20 years since large cars have been in their heyday - people have forgotten what a large car can represent - they can represent Australia, comfort, safety, freedom, ruggedness, outdoors, family trips - they can be the kind of car that people actually want to own. Instead we have marketing talking about a ipod connector or free reverse sensors, screw the head - go for the heart.

[Road_Warrior]

Large sedans have become a niche product, given the sales breakup of the Falcon being mainly favouring the performance and luxury models, it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if the XT is dropped for the 2014 model, and maybe a model reshuffle between the G6 and G6E and the G6ET to further distinguish it more from the 'cooking' models.

Its clear that there is still a market for large RWD sedans, because people still buy them new albeit in small numbers compared to days gone by. This isnt something that is unqique to Australia, it's a global trend. But the point is there is still a market for them but a small one, the key is leveraging a few more sales out of that core group of enthusiasts for the brand and the vehicle type, and tapping into some interest that might exist in markets globally for such a car.

[csv8]

Brazen..XT at $29,990 drive away would be a good starting price. Drop the G6 and G6E by $5k ?? or cull the range..XT..XR6 and G6E. No G6 does it sell ??? Then have the XR6T and G6E Turbo as performamce models. We will never see the XR8 or a G8E, sad to say.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

Brazen..XT at $29,990 drive away would be a good starting price. Drop the G6 and G6E by $5k ?? or cull the range..XT..XR6 and G6E. No G6 does it sell ??? Then have the XR6T and G6E Turbo as performamce models. We will never see the XR8 or a G8E, sad to say.....

And just how cheap would a NEW XR6 (or whatever model) have to be for YOU to actually buy one........

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by csv8

Brazen..XT at $29,990 drive away would be a good starting price. Drop the G6 and G6E by $5k ?? or cull the range..XT..XR6 and G6E. No G6 does it sell ??? Then have the XR6T and G6E Turbo as performamce models. We will never see the XR8 or a G8E, sad to say.....

$29990 would be great, but it needs to be consistent. Not $29990 for a limited time, not $29990 dealer special, not $29,990 demo price hidden away on page 6 on Carsales.

The market needs to slowly become aware that 30 grand gets you into a Falcon, no matter the day, time of year or season. It means that the market is aware and the market can start to look at the Falcon as a car they consider on their Saturday car shopping.

Buyer goes and gets a quote for a Corolla Conquest on road for 28 grand "honey, only a couple grand more will get us into a Falcon, lets go and have a look". Forester buyer "hmm, we could get a roomier Falcon for about 3 grand less...."

At the moment the pricing structure just puts Falcon in no-mans land, no one considers it, no one takes it seriously, and no one is buying.


30 grand gets you a Falcon. Simple, straightforward starting price, done.

[bmorris]

Good to see members of Ford's AUS PR team are checking out these forums. Though it must be a bit of a depressing read for them sometimes with the amount of complaining that goes on around here.

On the Territory XR idea:

I can't help but think this is going down the wrong path. If Australia wants to hang on to its manufacturing it needs volume. I've said it before however I dont have the answers on how to make Falcon/Territory any cheaper to sell higher volumes. In theory the idea of high spec models, less sales, more money sounds good, but in practice the line has to run at a certain speed. Without the volume more jobs are likely to go and suppliers are going to go broke.

A limited run of a sporty version of the Territory would be a good idea to test the water but I think a better idea would be to spend the money on engineering a more efficient diesel engine from somewhere in the Ford world into the current vehicle.

The price of the Australian dollar is going to drop sooner rather then later (IMO) and fuel prices are going to sky rocket. This would be a big selling point, even if it hasn't got a nice body kit on it.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are a couple of problems, large vehicles are too expensive and I have not seen successful advertising in years advocating the many benefits of a large car. It is almost as if Ford is a bit ashamed that the Falcon is a large sedan - and hence they dont actually remind buyers of all the great things of having a large rear-wheel drive car in the driveway.

You're saying the Falcon is expensive?

In 1996 an EL Falcon GLi cost $30,304.00 (6cyl auto sedan / no options)
In 2001 an AU Falcon Forte cost $32,515.00 (6cyl auto sedan / no options)
a 7% increase over 5 years between EL and AU
In 2006 a BF Falcon XT cost $35,990.00 (6cyl auto sedan / no options)
a 10% increase over 5 years between AU and BF
in 2011 an FG Falcon XT cost $37,235.00 (6cyl auto sedan / no options)
a 3.7% increase over 5 years between BA and AU

And what you're suggesting is to sell the entry level Falcon at a decrease of 19% from today's price at $29,990??? I don't know how much they need to sell a car to make profit (from Ford to the Dealer, or from the Dealer to an Owner) but I'm tipping that they do need to make some money.... and I would think that if you're selling a Falcon for $29,990 - there isn't much profit.

Even if you use the CPI increase (per year) it works out CHEAPER than everything that was relative to each of those examples.

The FG is only marginally more expensive than what a BF XT was 5 years ago - but you're getting WAY more car than you did 5 years ago. Realistically - its a bargain!

Originally Posted by Brazen

Advertising and marketing the vehicle is also lacking for a vehicle that needs to sell a certain amount per year to keep the factory ticking over. It is getting nearly 20 years since large cars have been in their heyday - people have forgotten what a large car can represent - they can represent Australia, comfort, safety, freedom, ruggedness, outdoors, family trips - they can be the kind of car that people actually want to own. Instead we have marketing talking about a ipod connector or free reverse sensors, screw the head - go for the heart.

Brazen the problem is - there is already a car produced by Ford Australia that isn't a Falcon that can offer you Australia, comfort, safety, freedom, ruggedness, outdoors, family trips, and IS a car that people want to own.
And the price doesn't seem to be a major factor - because they're selling them despite the fact that they are more expensive.

Now - I don't want to put the Falcon in a grave - but when you look at the statistics - if it ain't selling, and it ain't making money........

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Bloody hell, people are actually advocating not advertising the Falcon? Now I have heard it all!

In my case I'm saying that as a buyer of these vehicles as NEW cars, traditional tv advertising won't reach me at all, and I'm the type of customer that actually buys new Falcons and Territorys.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by flappist

And just how cheap would a NEW XR6 (or whatever model) have to be for YOU to actually buy one........

The XR6 isn't my cup of tea..I like luxury,,thats why I have a BF Mk 2 GHIA..the G6E doesn't excite me but the Chrysler 300C ,does..but not changing cars, as the GHIA has been ultral-reliable..

[madmelon]

From 1997 to 2012, 15 years, the price of a base auto Falcon has risen some 24%, from $29,950 to $37,235.

In the same period, the biggest rise from smaller vehicles has been the Hyundai Elantra to the i30, about 27% from memory- and it's little wonder with all the improvements they've made. Most other vehicles in the small/light category have stayed within a few thousand and some have even gone DOWN in price. In real terms, that means a small car is FAR cheaper than it used to be, in comparison to a large car. The same thing has also happened for the Hilux, another massively popular car. I think the average when I worked it out last week before that marketing presentation was about a 5% increase in price for the smaller cars.

That's all besides the point though. If people were only interested in small cars, heavy, large SUV's and utes wouldn't be flying high with sales. The reality is, the segment has shrunk so dramatically because people no longer percieve a benefit to that particular vehicle type.

Marketing 101: Marketing is the creation and (ultimately) an exchange of VALUE between customer and producer. If the customer perceives no value, then there is no exchange.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by loftie

Could not disagree with this point more.

There are usually reasons that a product struggles - more than simply advertising and marketing.

Firstly - let me state I am a fan/owner of the Falcon (though the most recent one I own is an AU) and I am not likely to be in the market for a Falcon any time soon.

Let me put it to you this way. Back in the 1970s / 1980s Sedan & Station Wagons were kings. You could do almost anything with a large Sedan, they were big enough inside for (most) families, and the station wagons were bigger again and could cater for (again - most) bigger families. Even the 1990s the large car (be it Falcon/Commodore - whatever) was a good seller because everyone wanted and needed one.

The basic formula for the large car has stayed the same and been very good for a very long time.

Fast forward to today - you have SUVs all over the place that can do exactly what a large sedan does - and more. The problem is - that a large sedan can't do what an SUV does. And this is part of the reason why the volume of sales across the board for large cars has dropped.

Also consider the fact that the medium car market has increased in both volume and competitors. The Mondeo is about 1 inch smaller than the Falcon in most dimensions - yet it is a 'medium' car. The small car segment has also grown in popularity - and so have the size of the vehicles. (Did you know that today's Corolla is actually larger than the first Camry?)

So really Small Cars are now basically Medium - and mediums are basically Large - and potentially take sales from the Large segment because they are so close - catch my drift?

20 Years ago - people listened to cassette tapes and watched VHS videos. Then technology evolved. And now we don't use those great products anymore. Sure they were great 20 years ago (when there wasn't so many alternatives) but now we've moved forward and let go of the things from the past that certainly worked and did the job - we've just got things that do it better now.

Sadly - the Falcon may just be like that. You could saturate advertising all over the place - but that alone won't make the market grow. The format has been swallowed up by other segments and the MASSIVE amount of choice that we now have in Australia.

Everything that is happening to the Falcon today, will be happening to the Commodore tomorrow. It's not exclusively a Falcon problem - its a Large Car problem.

I could go on and on and on about this - but I don't want to sound negative (there is enough of that going on). And I certainly don't want ANYTHING I've written to be taken negatively either - but its realistic.

Thats just my 2 cents - for whatever thats worth.

When a product starts to become out of flavor with buyers, companies have 2 options
1) Re-invent/ re-image there product
2) Stop making it!!


If you choice options 1 (Which ford has done with EcoBoost in the Falcon), you advertising!! You don’t sit back & say "O well the market has changed, so we want do any main stream media". Grow some balls Ford, back EcoBoost or stop making the whole god dam thing!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

The XR6 isn't my cup of tea..I like luxury,,thats why I have a BF Mk 2 GHIA..the G6E doesn't excite me but the Chrysler 300C ,does..but not changing cars, as the GHIA has been ultral-reliable..

So the answer is: Price is not the issue, you just do not want to buy a FG2 Falcon.

So why constantly go on about it?

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

When a product starts to become out of flavor with buyers, companies have 2 options
1) Re-invent/ re-image there product
2) Stop making it!!


If you choice options 1 (Which ford has done with EcoBoost in the Falcon), you advertising!! You don’t sit back & say "O well the market has changed, so we want do any main stream media". Grow some balls Ford, back EcoBoost or stop making the whole god dam thing!!

The drivetrain does nothing to improve the flexibility or the capability of the car with key points like seating capacity, luggage, or comfort.

You can re-invent the sedan all you like, but it still won't be 5 seater that can convert to 7, it won't hold the same objects that an SUV wagon can, and it isn't the most comfortable height for a woman to load a child into the rear seat.

[jpd80]

Remember how Ford stopped importing Mondeo sedans because hardly anyone wanted them,
most buyers wanted either a 5-door hatch or a Station-wagon, maye there's a lesson in that......

Will we ever see a Falcon with more load flexibility that actually complements Territory

[prydey]

Originally Posted by madmelon

From 1997 to 2012, 15 years, the price of a base auto Falcon has risen some 24%, from $29,950 to $37,235.

what was a ford production worker paid in 1997? what were ford's power costs in 1997?

everyone wants something for nothing but want to be paid handsomely well in their jobs.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by loftie

The drivetrain does nothing to improve the flexibility or the capability of the car with key points like seating capacity, luggage, or comfort.

You can re-invent the sedan all you like, but it still won't be 5 seater that can convert to 7, it won't hold the same objects that an SUV wagon can, and it isn't the most comfortable height for a woman to load a child into the rear seat.

Not every new car buyer wants an SUV or a 7 seater or whatever, and fuel economy is an important aspect of most new car buyers' deliberations, so in the case of the Ecoboost the drivetrain is important and relevant

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Bloody hell, people are actually advocating not advertising the Falcon? Now I have heard it all!

Ford AU doesnt import the Falcon, it builds it here. When sales are slow, they cant just simply hold off their orders from Thailand - instead they are manufacturing a vehicle in a production facility that craves volume. They are forced to keep Falcon production going.

The fact is, yes large cars are down - BUT, large cars revolve around two vehicles, one is the Commodore which is 6 years old and desperate need of a change, the other is the Falcon which is being neglected by the market.

There are a couple of problems, large vehicles are too expensive and I have not seen successful advertising in years advocating the many benefits of a large car. It is almost as if Ford is a bit ashamed that the Falcon is a large sedan - and hence they dont actually remind buyers of all the great things of having a large rear-wheel drive car in the driveway.

Pricing the Falcon at a lower starting point for the base model will get people at least putting it on their shopping list, once through the door the dealer can upsell them into a XR6 or higher. As it stands, the Falcon XT is easily the most wasted vehicle on market today - it serves no purpose and is an utter failure in situating the Falcon at a price point that can get some mid-size and SUV buyers interested.

Advertising and marketing the vehicle is also lacking for a vehicle that needs to sell a certain amount per year to keep the factory ticking over. It is getting nearly 20 years since large cars have been in their heyday - people have forgotten what a large car can represent - they can represent Australia, comfort, safety, freedom, ruggedness, outdoors, family trips - they can be the kind of car that people actually want to own. Instead we have marketing talking about a ipod connector or free reverse sensors, screw the head - go for the heart.

Great post.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by bmorris

On the Territory XR idea:

I can't help but think this is going down the wrong path. If Australia wants to hang on to its manufacturing it needs volume.

Isn't the Falcon XR the biggest seller of the Falcon fleet?



Lukeyson