Country pack, a hypothetical

[Brazen]

You could make it a seperate variant, unless Ford marketed it well a country pack option hidden at the back of a brochure will be missed by the market. A seperate variant gets put on sales lists and can be advertised.

Base it on XT or G6 call it Falcon Tracker have it as sedan and ute: A little higher suspension, different design alloys, front foglights and LSD. Easy, cheap to manufacture, gives a point of difference to the upcoming VF Commodore and gives a Falcon a practical variant to win back some of the lost private sales and to target corporate and government fleets.

Also gives another sales outlet for EcoLPI and Ecoboost that Territory doesnt offer.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

gives a Falcon a practical variant to win back some of the lost private sales and to target corporate and government fleets.

The chances of this happening are now completely zero based on what I have been told this morning.

It would need to be private buyers only who don't care about tailpipe CO2 thresholds.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It would need to be private buyers only who don't care about tailpipe CO2 thresholds.

Subaru has targeted the new Liberty X sedan at private buyers. It has 200mm ground clearance (15mm more than Territory).

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You guys are making the Falcon out to be something its not for the sake of the thread title.
Falcons in standard trim are capable of handling Aussie conditions and have done since 1965.

this^^!!

have a look at the ground clearance on the top 10 passenger cars in sales each month.

people are carrying on like the falcon has been lowered by 20cm over time. you'd be lucky if it was 2cm!!

there are also some members who think they know exactly why the falcon isn't selling but are currently up to about idea no. 5.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

this^^!!

have a look at the ground clearance on the top 10 passenger cars in sales each month.

people are carrying on like the falcon has been lowered by 20cm over time. you'd be lucky if it was 2cm!!

there are also some members who think they know exactly why the falcon isn't selling but are currently up to about idea no. 5.

Careful, we don't want the truth to get in the way of a good story...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

this^^!!

have a look at the ground clearance on the top 10 passenger cars in sales each month.

people are carrying on like the falcon has been lowered by 20cm over time. you'd be lucky if it was 2cm!!

there are also some members who think they know exactly why the falcon isn't selling but are currently up to about idea no. 5.

2cm? That would be 20mm or nearly 25mm.
The primary point in the original post was the availability of 17" or 18" rims factory standard on some of the models that no longer allow this to help prevent rim damage on roads with potholes and rough edges.

It was a point that was raised by a friend who sells Ford in a regional town as an issue he had with his customers.

As far as the 5 ideas, what if one or more of them was actually correct?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

2cm? That would be 20mm or nearly 25mm.
The primary point in the original post was the availability of 17" or 18" rims factory standard on some of the models that no longer allow this to help prevent rim damage on roads with potholes and rough edges.

It was a point that was raised by a friend who sells Ford in a regional town as an issue he had with his customers.

As far as the 5 ideas, what if one or more of them was actually correct?

just to clarify, i voted 'no i wouldn't buy one but others might' so i'm not against the original idea. i just felt the topic had evolved into the idea that std falcons are scraping their belly on the ground and that making them look like a 4wd would increase their sales substantially. i was also for the option to be 'dealer fit' rather than factory fit, as this would suit the company better i felt. it would probably be an option only opted for mainly at regional dealers.

the '5 ideas' comment wasn't at you (which i'm sure you're aware). some members can't promote the falcon for what it is, but deride it for something that it isn't. like i said, 70% (give or take) of the top 10 selling cars would have similar or less ground clearance than falcon.

i think its a neat idea that dealers could offer but can't see it having a dramatic impact on overall falcon sales.

[Burnout]

This - maybe?



The sparks are for Dealer advertising!

[Bossxr8]

The simple fact remains that Ford dropped the Country Pack option due to lack of demand, why the hell is this even worth discussing bringing it back if the ones who actually make the cars considered it unworthy of doing. But some people will always think they know better than Ford do.

Just face the fact that it's just like the Falcon wagon, Fairlane/LTD and hardtop Falcons, never to return. The only model that Ford may bring back is the XR8 because they are still discussing it in product planning meetings. None of the other stuff is.

This is starting to remind me of the bring back the GTHO threads that continually got locked.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The simple fact remains that Ford dropped the Country Pack option due to lack of demand, why the hell is this even worth discussing bringing it back if the ones who actually make the cars considered it unworthy of doing. But some people will always think they know better than Ford do.

Just face the fact that it's just like the Falcon wagon, Fairlane/LTD and hardtop Falcons, never to return. The only model that Ford may bring back is the XR8 because they are still discussing it in product planning meetings. None of the other stuff is.

This is starting to remind me of the bring back the GTHO threads that continually got locked.

They probably thought the same thing in the mid 70's when Ford dropped the Futura or the 80's when Holden dropped the Ute and Statesman...

[Bossxr8]

Badge changes are hardly engineering jobs though are they. And Holden dropped the Statesman again last year.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The simple fact remains that Ford dropped the Country Pack option due to lack of demand, why the hell is this even worth discussing bringing it back if the ones who actually make the cars considered it unworthy of doing. But some people will always think they know better than Ford do.

Just face the fact that it's just like the Falcon wagon, Fairlane/LTD and hardtop Falcons, never to return. The only model that Ford may bring back is the XR8 because they are still discussing it in product planning meetings. None of the other stuff is.

This is starting to remind me of the bring back the GTHO threads that continually got locked.

What many don't see,its all about selling the cars,theres enuf discussions around that ford sell minorities to minorities,so lets make a limited run for small limited buyers .....
Make a product ,sell it make a profit,not make a small handful and loose on every one ....
Ford dropped the V8 in the XE way way back when,oh the unheaval ....
But the 6 pot only XF was the biggest selling ford model ever,yeah ford made a bad decision there,its only 30 years later we all bag them for that
Ford do have to lift there game just as all other aussie manufacturers,building 1 offs,or small handful specials isn't keepin the doors open,when what they make and sell now is hardly keepin the doors open

[axialmark]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Incorrect, according to Ford research the biggest complaint from Falcon ute buyers isn't build quality or fuel economy, or power.. It is lack of ground clearance. Hence why RTV was introduced.

RTV sold 1200 a year which is money for jam, pretty good considering that the entire Falcon sedan range only sold 10,000 last year (XT, XT LPG, XT Ecoboost, XR6, XR6 LPG, G6, G6 Ecoboost, G6 LPG, G6E, G6E Ecoboost, G6E LPG, G6E Turbo).

What they should do is just make higher ground clearance standard on the base XL. RTV was very expensive, so just making the ground clearance standard would help the value equation.

Having owned a 8 RTV since new in 04 and also owing what is for the time being what i believe to be the only full RTV BA wagon in Aus ( i know of at least 3 more to be built) i can say that they were definitely not a flop.
I believe Ford sold close to 15000 total of which about 5000 were V8.
The ability of these utes in rough terrain is as good or better than most SUV's with open diffs and independent suspension at both ends as any one who has ever driven with diff lock will attest. Ford definitely got their investment back but unfortunately the main reason for low sales was as usual that the advertising budget was NIL, just look at Fairlane, wagon and the new E Gas as more examples of good cars that didn't get advertised.
The whole idea of going back to dealer fitted country pack has merit as for years country dealers in particular made a lot of money from fitting these for farmers and the like.
What it comes down to guys is that we should all be able to use what ever is available either from factory or aftermarket to build what we want as long as it is legal and all of us should get on with enjoying our hobby with out judging others based on their personal preferences.

[axialmark]

Just to go one step further with the debate over alternatives to high ride ute or wagon, i recently retired the RTV ute to the shed as it was no longer viable as a tax deduction due to age and after looking around at what was available form Ford in FG i decide to go twin cab Ranger. i can only agree with other forum members who have balked at the price. In the end i purchased the top spec BT50: which is equivalent to Ranger Wildtrak with exception of heated seats and mirrors and whilst the jury is out on the looks the $8 k saving even with canopy and a few extra options more than makes up for it. And at the end of the day i am still driving a Ford just lift the bonnet and look at all the FOMOCO stickers . And to any one that thinks twin cabs are still agricultural and under-powered, go and drive a Ranger not only do they pull like a diesel ute shouldn't but they have amazing fuel economy for a 2.5 tonne vehicle to boot. The 3.2 5cyl would be fantastic in a Falcon ute or wagon. And like me you just need a V8 sitting in the drive to get your frustrations out of the system on the weekends.
Let the debate continue.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The young men who develop Falcon nowadays need to step back and look at not what they want in a car, but instead what the market wants. I think the market wants what they got out of Falcon in the 90s - versatile, practical, continent-crossing, good value family cars.

Amen to that Brazen. Like to add the Falcon in late 60's, 70's and 80's was exactly that as well. It was the 'Great Australian Road Car' after all...

[prydey]

talk about living in the past. back then, falcon and commodore sold 10000 units a month, give or take. now the best selling car each month is around 3500 units. that should give you an idea of how much the market has changed. it is THE MOST diverse in the world.

if you care to look at the cars that are the most popular, they are certainly not '- versatile, practical, continent-crossing, good value family cars.'. they are either small cars or 4wd style utes.

apparently deleting things like wagon, xr8, lwb etc is why falcon isn't doing so well. how is holden doing?? they still have wagon, v8 commodore and lwb, and yet they are suffering the same fate.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by axialmark

Having owned a 8 RTV since new in 04 and also owing what is for the time being what i believe to be the only full RTV BA wagon in Aus ( i know of at least 3 more to be built) i can say that they were definitely not a flop.
I believe Ford sold close to 15000 total of which about 5000 were V8.
The ability of these utes in rough terrain is as good or better than most SUV's with open diffs and independent suspension at both ends as any one who has ever driven with diff lock will attest. Ford definitely got their investment back but unfortunately the main reason for low sales was as usual that the advertising budget was NIL, just look at Fairlane, wagon and the new E Gas as more examples of good cars that didn't get advertised.
The whole idea of going back to dealer fitted country pack has merit as for years country dealers in particular made a lot of money from fitting these for farmers and the like.
What it comes down to guys is that we should all be able to use what ever is available either from factory or aftermarket to build what we want as long as it is legal and all of us should get on with enjoying our hobby with out judging others based on their personal preferences.

I don't reckon they where a flop either. see a lot of them getting around still.

[2011G6E]

We traded our G6E on a Mitsubishi Triton dual cab GLX-R...and you know what? It's far more comfortable and just as quiet...sometimes quieter inside...than the luxurious G6E was...

Out here, roads are atrocious...rough edges, drop offs at the edge of the bitumen of sometimes three inches, potholes that just go on and on...a "country pack" makes perfect sense for people out in , well, the country, who want a sedan.

Raised suspension by (taking our G6E as an example), at least an inch or inch and a half...17" wheels with tyres that actually have a sidewall...stronger suspension, sump protection, the usual stuff.

I still see heaps of RTV's out here, and a sedan done the same would sell well.

[axialmark]

Originally Posted by prydey

talk about living in the past. back then, falcon and commodore sold 10000 units a month, give or take. now the best selling car each month is around 3500 units. that should give you an idea of how much the market has changed. it is THE MOST diverse in the world.

if you care to look at the cars that are the most popular, they are certainly not '- versatile, practical, continent-crossing, good value family cars.'. they are either small cars or 4wd style utes.

apparently deleting things like wagon, xr8, lwb etc is why falcon isn't doing so well. how is holden doing?? they still have wagon, v8 commodore and lwb, and yet they are suffering the same fate.

Yes, but it is also common knowledge that if it were not for the export market ( US Police) the long wheel base Commodore platform would have been killed off by now also. The main difference here is that GM in the states is happy to import our product to sell along side theirs, Ford US on the other hand seem determined that our rear drive platform which is far better than theirs never be offered on any other shores.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

We traded our G6E on a Mitsubishi Triton dual cab GLX-R...and you know what? It's far more comfortable and just as quiet...sometimes quieter inside...than the luxurious G6E was...

Out here, roads are atrocious...rough edges, drop offs at the edge of the bitumen of sometimes three inches, potholes that just go on and on...a "country pack" makes perfect sense for people out in , well, the country, who want a sedan.

Raised suspension by (taking our G6E as an example), at least an inch or inch and a half...17" wheels with tyres that actually have a sidewall...stronger suspension, sump protection, the usual stuff.

I still see heaps of RTV's out here, and a sedan done the same would sell well.

Agree with the roads
But a falcon country pack would have to be something special,dual cab 4x4s are the big thing ATM
Room for the family,room for the junk in the back,good ground clearance and well price
Mitsubishi were doin dual cab 4x4 base model 29990 drive away,navaras are 39990 drive away,and many more aren't much more drive away
50 grand for something falcon based,with country pack,as you mention the triton is just as comfortable on the ruff stuff
Nissan are doin 1 % on most of the fleet and that includes the 4x4s,ford are still at 2.9 %, that alone is why Nissan are out selling even the much publicised holden ...
I personally don't think it would sell well against whats out there

[Cespenar]

This has been a very interesting forum. I'll add a few things i have picked up.
Ford and Holden both said they make cars for tar road. (Read city roads)
Even Landrover gave a squeek when their latest thin tyre huge wheel was taken off road. The testers were told that it wasn't to go bush. WTF?
I would like bigger (taller) tyres on my '99 Ghia, but I'd rather sell it. Apparently not worth more than 2 grand. So tall tyres would fix it for me.
One ford dealer told me he could care less about selling Falcons. The sooner Ford ditches them the happier he'd be. Well, my small city is full of the four cylinder fords.
I tried to see if Ford could put the Territory diesel in the Falcon, but they said definitely not. The Territory and the Mondeo were enough. ( makes me think Ford does plan to ditch the Falcon) And many country people have stated they'd buy a diesel Falcon if it was available.
Hmmm .... Diesel Falcon and better road clearance! Bring it on!

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Cespenar

This has been a very interesting forum. I'll add a few things i have picked up.
Ford and Holden both said they make cars for tar road. (Read city roads)
Even Landrover gave a squeek when their latest thin tyre huge wheel was taken off road. The testers were told that it wasn't to go bush. WTF?
I would like bigger (taller) tyres on my '99 Ghia, but I'd rather sell it. Apparently not worth more than 2 grand. So tall tyres would fix it for me.
One ford dealer told me he could care less about selling Falcons. The sooner Ford ditches them the happier he'd be. Well, my small city is full of the four cylinder fords.
I tried to see if Ford could put the Territory diesel in the Falcon, but they said definitely not. The Territory and the Mondeo were enough. ( makes me think Ford does plan to ditch the Falcon) And many country people have stated they'd buy a diesel Falcon if it was available.
Hmmm .... Diesel Falcon and better road clearance! Bring it on!

ford wont do it. the excuse will be territory and mondeo. nothing against mondeo but i'd buy a falcon over a mondeo. I reckon the falcon looks better personally.

[Brazen]

Diesel Falcon is obvious, especially diesel Falcon ute. It would be a hit.

[axialmark]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Diesel Falcon is obvious, especially diesel Falcon ute. It would be a hit.

As i said earlier the 3.2 diesel from Ranger with 6 sp auto would be awesome in falcon ute, interesting little known fact Ford has sitting in the weather at the development center a couple of medium capacity V8 turbo diesels( not the 7.3) given to them by Ford UK, no surprise that they are not allowed to even fit them to test mules for appraisal.
Ford US seems to have a definite agenda to kill of the Falcon for good.

[axialmark]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah they were great, but to be honest I would be happy even if we went back to the ground clearance on the AU ute, the AU ute was a great work ute and used to sell up to 2000 units a month. My FG I reckon is around at least an inch lower and sadly sales are dying (last month they sold around 300). The FG base ute looks good but has as much clearance as a Mazda 3 and just doesn't get taken seriously as a work ute anymore.

image
image

Brazen
Your a man after my own heart, although i have to say that given the ride height of the AU and the position of the front spring hangers relative to chassis rail this looks suspiciously like it may be one of the early AU RTV test mules.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by axialmark

As i said earlier the 3.2 diesel from Ranger with 6 sp auto would be awesome in falcon ute, interesting little known fact Ford has sitting in the weather at the development center a couple of medium capacity V8 turbo diesels( not the 7.3) given to them by Ford UK, no surprise that they are not allowed to even fit them to test mules for appraisal.
Ford US seems to have a definite agenda to kill of the Falcon for good.

I doubt they would consider the 3.2 for the Falcon as it is too noisy. The high output 2.2 from the overseas Mondeo or the 3.0 relative of the Territory's 2.7 would be better choice in my opinion, ignoring cost considerations of course.

[Bossxr8]

They trialled the 3.2 I5 for the Territory and rejected it for NVH reasons, it just wasn't refined enough. Its good enough for a commercial vehicle, but not for a passenger vehicle they reckon.

[axialmark]

They must have forgotten what it was like to drive an early muscle car with lumpy cam, all bad manners and good vibrations Ha Ha.
Seriously though i think that the NHV from 3.2 would be acceptable in a work ute ,correct though maybe not in passenger car.

[irsa76]

I'm assuming the take up rate of Country pack Falcons is similar to that of the Commodore, VERY few retail buyers bought country pack Commodores. And I know Holden did push the availability of the option, in contrast I can't actually remember seeing it even listed in Falcon brochures.

[onfire]

I think it's pretty safe to say, most people in the " country " rarely see a dirt road. Let alone need a country orientated Falcon.

Those who do see mud and dust and actually work on the land, wouldn't waste their time with a jacked up rear-wheel drive Falcon. IE: RTV.