fastest holden ever claims joshua dowling

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b0son

Ford/FPV/whoever did in a falling large car segment with the S/C 5L, and Holden are coming off a much larger sales volume.

Could always just sit on their hands and do nothing? Either let them die or do your best to quell the fall?

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Where did I say that? I'm not out for a ****ing contest mate. It was just a harmless poke that's all.

I don't or shouldn't need to detail anything.

with your tagline of "HRT all the Way" and your attitude to the ford product what are you doing here?
you obviously have no love of the ford product and seem to be hell bent on dragging down anyone who makes either positive ford or negative Holden comments. although this does not definitively indicate troll intentions it does raise serious doubts about you intentions

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

with your tagline of "HRT all the Way" and your attitude to the ford product what are you doing here?
you obviously have no love of the ford product and seem to be hell bent on dragging down anyone who makes either positive ford or negative Holden comments. although this does not definitively indicate troll intentions it does raise serious doubts about you intentions

Top post...

Back to the topic:

Bring on the blown VF. Regardless of the euro badge names & tech jargon thrown in / being written by Dowling, if the VF owns Ford's blown 5.0s on the road/track then Ford will either step up or back down. Either way we've got another Aussie halo car on the road to include in our rich Holden/Ford history. Hopefully we won't ever return to the days where people are excited over 120kw sixes or eights... Unless they have sub-5L/100km fuel consumption to match.

[Professor Farnsworth]

^^

i'd be interested to see how the mammoth power claims match up to the sprint times. On our slippery, broken local roads you'd need to replace the traction control module before the tyres with that sort of power as it'd be engaging every 2 seconds.

[Windsor220]

I wouldn't think it would be much quicker than 4.5 seconds. Once you get to a certain point it gets harder and harder to go quicker especially with big 4 door sedans like this. Quarter mile times will be interesting.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

with your tagline of "HRT all the Way" and your attitude to the ford product what are you doing here?
you obviously have no love of the ford product and seem to be hell bent on dragging down anyone who makes either positive ford or negative Holden comments. although this does not definitively indicate troll intentions it does raise serious doubts about you intentions

What am I doing here? It's a free forum that anyone can join so why can't I be here? I like this forum because it's one of the few automotive forums that provokes decent discussion.

However it does add a damper when people still question me although I've been a member longer than most of the forum.

I've said it many times before (probably too much) that I do have an interest in the Ford product. I mostly like European and American Fords. Some Falcons are ok, but I don't like all of them.

Honestly this forum is great, but you should be grateful that to have a Holden fan like me here or would you settle for someone who would get themselves banned in a week constantly bashing Ford and its fans?

I'm obviously not as bad as you say.

[Jason[98.EL]]

great post Ryan

I have been here a long time as well and have seen you grow up from a holden upstart to the person you are now ( forum based ) and mate when you first showed up here you were so holden biased it was not funny

Now you put up a good argument for both sides

keep up the good side mate not all of us here see you in the same light

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

with your tagline of "HRT all the Way" and your attitude to the ford product what are you doing here?
you obviously have no love of the ford product and seem to be hell bent on dragging down anyone who makes either positive ford or negative Holden comments. although this does not definitively indicate troll intentions it does raise serious doubts about you intentions

Ryan is one the most level headed Holden fans on here, at least he makes it clear who he favours, unlike some that claim to be pro-ford but then stick the boot into ford every chance they get.

Nothing wrong with some balancing viewpoints being added in...

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Ryan is one the most level headed Holden fans on here, at least he makes it clear who he favours, unlike some that claim to be pro-ford but then stick the boot into ford every chance they get.

Nothing wrong with some balancing viewpoints being added in...

Well posted.

[Bossxr8]

He's a HRT fan, we all should feel sorry for them lol.

They can't help being a little bit slow.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

He's a HRT fan, we all should feel sorry for them lol.

They can't help being a little bit slow.

That's cold lol.

Anyway thanks for the words fellas, but it's probably best we get back on topic.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I wouldn't think it would be much quicker than 4.5 seconds. Once you get to a certain point it gets harder and harder to go quicker especially with big 4 door sedans like this. Quarter mile times will be interesting.

This. Can't see that time being easily topped without an advanced DSG/auto-style transmission. Not that I've researched the matter either, but the VE/VF's frontal area seems damn massive to me. I can't see even this LSA car cracking 280 kph let alone 300 like some articles are speculating.

Walkinshaw cars seem to run mid 12's with a good driver. I imagine this'll be about the same. The magazines will still refuse to acknowledge that FPV's already run those times as standard.

[EDManual]

why can a v8 90's standard m5 crack almost dead on 300? They dont look too aero...so surely something with an extra 200hp can...

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by EDManual

why can a v8 90's standard m5 crack almost dead on 300? They dont look too aero...so surely something with an extra 200hp can...

That's an E39 M5 though. It's the Clark Kent of super sedans. VE's are huge. Even next to an FG they look big.

And like I said, I haven't researched the matter.

[Falcman0o7]

Is that chicken wire in the grill?

[Nikked]

Photoshop is ugly...if it looks anything close to that...


As for the power, I'll believe it when I see it...

[stazza]

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

Walkinshaw cars seem to run mid 12's with a good driver. I imagine this'll be about the same. The magazines will still refuse to acknowledge that FPV's already run those times as standard.

This.

Even when Ford/FPV was using the 260's and 290's, Holden's were slower. I don't care what anyone says.

I raced a VE SS in my FG XR8 ute and my car was faster, despite EVERY man and his dog stating that VE SS's are 'WEAPONS' and XR8's are slugs.

A buddy of mine with an FG XR8 also had a bit of a race with another guy we know who has a VE Maloo 317, and they both acknowledged the XR8 was quicker.

AAAND, my housemate has a VE SS with a exhaust and tune and it is slow as ****. I also know another young bloke that had a VE SS ute and I went for a ride in it and it was painfully slow. I don't care what anyone says.

Not sure if it was just the magazine's claims and everyone believes it, or if Holden drivers just plainly refused to acknowledge the fact that Fords are faster, but the FACT is, Fords are faster, even with the 5.4l.

And as was stated earlier, Holden is completely missing the mark with this whole 'refinement' angle. As if their fans really give a ****. Does anyone here believe their fans would genuinely care if it had a HUD speedo or not? Or fancy suspension? They will just airbag it and have it skull-dragging down the road anyway. HSV could release the same motor this time around (as they are doing for most models), and it will sell.

Ford has had the two faster motors (I6T, 5.0 and arguably 5.4) for a long time, and people still bought the Holden counterpart in significantly larger volumes, despite it being slower, but having a couple crappy gadgets and a couple SIDI/AFM/R8/etc... badges that Ford never bothered to introduce.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stazza

This.

Even when Ford/FPV was using the 260's and 290's, Holden's were slower. I don't care what anyone says.

I raced a VE SS in my FG XR8 ute and my car was faster, despite EVERY man and his dog stating that VE SS's are 'WEAPONS' and XR8's are slugs.

A buddy of mine with an FG XR8 also had a bit of a race with another guy we know who has a VE Maloo 317, and they both acknowledged the XR8 was quicker.

AAAND, my housemate has a VE SS with a exhaust and tune and it is slow as ****. I also know another young bloke that had a VE SS ute and I went for a ride in it and it was painfully slow. I don't care what anyone says.

Not sure if it was just the magazine's claims and everyone believes it, or if Holden drivers just plainly refused to acknowledge the fact that Fords are faster, but the FACT is, Fords are faster, even with the 5.4l.

And as was stated earlier, Holden is completely missing the mark with this whole 'refinement' angle. As if their fans really give a ****. Does anyone here believe their fans would genuinely care if it had a HUD speedo or not? Or fancy suspension? They will just airbag it and have it skull-dragging down the road anyway. HSV could release the same motor this time around (as they are doing for most models), and it will sell.

Ford has had the two faster motors (I6T, 5.0 and arguably 5.4) for a long time, and people still bought the Holden counterpart in significantly larger volumes, despite it being slower, but having a couple crappy gadgets and a couple SIDI/AFM/R8/etc... badges that Ford never bothered to introduce.

I didn't think the 5.4L was as bad as what people reckon it was. they where quicker in the end then the VE SS was at the time. I do know that much. I think it was because before the 5L Miami came out. the V8 offering wasn't as fast as the turbo 6 version and because the turbo 6 was the hero motor for ford. some people just assumed the 5.4L was gutless. the way some people go on about holdens is just bloody ridiculous. already. the car hasn't even been tested and yet theres bogus claims. I remember when the GT-R spec was about too be realised. hardly any mention of it being australias fastest car yet it became just that. comparing it too Mercedes benz and bmws is just bloody ridiculous!! I doubt anyone who would normally buy a beemer or a merc would buy a GTS over what they normally buy.

[2011G6E]

All that matters are two things: "575hp", and "Australian made car".

Ford, Holden, who cares...we should all just be thankful the authorities allow cars like this to be even designed much less sold to the three or four rich buggers that will buy one each year.

It would be extremely easy for a government...for green or other philosophical "needs" just passed a law restricting new cars to something like a power limit or cylinder limit. Been done before elsewhere in the world, would be easy to do here too.

Comparing our cars to Euro models is and always has been stupid...and embrassing. How many years was BMW for example pulling 300+ hp out of a naturally aspirated straight six, when Australian Fords and Holdens had to strap turbos and superchargers on ours to get up anywhere within cooee of those figures?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by stazza

This.

Even when Ford/FPV was using the 260's and 290's, Holden's were slower. I don't care what anyone says.

I raced a VE SS in my FG XR8 ute and my car was faster, despite EVERY man and his dog stating that VE SS's are 'WEAPONS' and XR8's are slugs.

A buddy of mine with an FG XR8 also had a bit of a race with another guy we know who has a VE Maloo 317, and they both acknowledged the XR8 was quicker.

AAAND, my housemate has a VE SS with a exhaust and tune and it is slow as ****. I also know another young bloke that had a VE SS ute and I went for a ride in it and it was painfully slow. I don't care what anyone says.

Not sure if it was just the magazine's claims and everyone believes it, or if Holden drivers just plainly refused to acknowledge the fact that Fords are faster, but the FACT is, Fords are faster, even with the 5.4l.

And as was stated earlier, Holden is completely missing the mark with this whole 'refinement' angle. As if their fans really give a ****. Does anyone here believe their fans would genuinely care if it had a HUD speedo or not? Or fancy suspension? They will just airbag it and have it skull-dragging down the road anyway. HSV could release the same motor this time around (as they are doing for most models), and it will sell.

Ford has had the two faster motors (I6T, 5.0 and arguably 5.4) for a long time, and people still bought the Holden counterpart in significantly larger volumes, despite it being slower, but having a couple crappy gadgets and a couple SIDI/AFM/R8/etc... badges that Ford never bothered to introduce.

The 5.4L is a decent donk IMO. My uncle had an 04 BA XR8 before getting a 09 FG GS and in both cars the motor had some good poke. Sounded nice too.

Personally I'm not into street racing so I couldn't care less about which is faster. I know the VZ I currently have goes alright for a standard car. Whether it would beat a Ford of the same year? Don't know, don't care.

Not everyone buys an SS, XR8 or whatever to go out and beat the opposition.

As you say people still bought/buy SSs in volume despite being "slower" than the Ford offerings. Maybe they just like the car and don't give a rats about what keyboard experts have to say?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The 5.4L is a decent donk IMO. My uncle had an 04 BA XR8 before getting a 09 FG GS and in both cars the motor had some good poke. Sounded nice too.

Personally I'm not into street racing so I couldn't care less about which is faster. I know the VZ I currently have goes alright for a standard car. Whether it would beat a Ford of the same year? Don't know, don't care.

Not everyone buys an SS, XR8 or whatever to go out and beat the opposition.

As you say people still bought/buy SSs in volume despite being "slower" than the Ford offerings. Maybe they just like the car and don't give a rats about what keyboard experts have to say?

Or maybe because it's a brand image thing, that is one major factor I think is happening, the Ford might have a better overall package but when cross shopping them they are pretty close and as you say not everyone cares so much about the performance, but they do care that they can drive down their local or spruce to their friend's and family that they drive a Commodore, because the Commodore is seen as a better vehicle then the Ford amongst Aussie's.

It must be true as there is allways good report's in the paper's, on the new's, in V8 Supercar's etc etc..

I have allway's believed that Ford has a great product let down by their brand image and the way Aussie's percieve the Ford Falcon in general.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Or maybe because it's a brand image thing, that is one major factor I think is happening, the Ford might have a better overall package but when cross shopping them they are pretty close and as you say not everyone cares so much about the performance, but they do care that they can drive down their local or spruce to their friend's and family that they drive a Commodore, because the Commodore is seen as a better vehicle then the Ford amongst Aussie's.

It must be true as there is allways good report's in the paper's, on the new's, in V8 Supercar's etc etc..

I have allway's believed that Ford has a great product let down by their brand image and the way Aussie's percieve the Ford Falcon in general.

I think the imported fords have a much better image in the market palace than the locals.
Just one do the reasons I think its time for the nameplate to,be retired.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I think the imported fords have a much better image in the market palace than the locals.
Just one do the reasons I think its time for the nameplate to,be retired.

Personally I hope that they never retire the nameplate Falcon, it's iconic.

I just think that they have a big issue on their hand's that they need to start improving now , actually they needed to do this a long time ago, They have the product's and market covered they just need to work on their image.

[flooded one]

both commodore and falcon names are iconic but they do have a bad image

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Or maybe because it's a brand image thing, that is one major factor I think is happening, the Ford might have a better overall package but when cross shopping them they are pretty close and as you say not everyone cares so much about the performance, but they do care that they can drive down their local or spruce to their friend's and family that they drive a Commodore, because the Commodore is seen as a better vehicle then the Ford amongst Aussie's.

It must be true as there is allways good report's in the paper's, on the new's, in V8 Supercar's etc etc..

I have allway's believed that Ford has a great product let down by their brand image and the way Aussie's percieve the Ford Falcon in general.

Definitely. From my experience the Commodore and Falcon have their strengths and weaknesses that define their status with the buyer. I did say I don't like every Falcon, but then again I don't like every Commodore either (VN, VP and VT).

I agree Ford has been let down by brand image and poor marketining over the years. I guess it steams back to the "American" stigma attached. Some people see them as pieces of **** because they're not "Australian" which we all know isn't true.

In alot of ways I do think Ford make a better product than Holden. I would take a Focus over a Cruze any day of the god given week. Just as I would with a Territory over a Captiva, but I have my reasons for sticking with a Commodore.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by stazza

This.

Even when Ford/FPV was using the 260's and 290's, Holden's were slower. I don't care what anyone says.

So true. I remember doing some comparison work with my then company supplied VE SSV vs an FG XR8 with a 290 boss motor. Both cars were Autos.

The XR8 was a lot smoother and quieter and steered and handled better and, but also felt heavier and more lazy. The SSV by comparison was a little more raucous and raw, but felt fast and urgent. And driven separately you would swear, I know I did, that the SSV was faster. All that changed when we rolled them out side by side. Despite its smooth and lazy feel, it was quicker than the SSV from a standing start, and any number of rolling increments. The XR just did it all with less fuss.

Now, back to the topic.

[Eaturbo]

Anybody know what sort of power these LSA's can make with a tune and some small bolt on mods. Could end up being quite a scary car if it makes anything near 430kw's stock.

[GTMOND]

Then ford could stick in the 5.8 662 hp gt 500 motor lol. Good luck to holden though the price will be the big factor for the GTS.

[SSVPom]

"AAAND, my housemate has a VE SS with a exhaust and tune and it is slow as ****. I also know another young bloke that had a VE SS ute and I went for a ride in it and it was painfully slow. I don't care what anyone says."

And I don't care what anybody says either, but there is no way you can describe a 6.0V8 SS as "slow".

[stazza]

I just did. They are slow. Dude, go drive a 290 XR8/GT or a GS (similarly priced to an SS/SSV) and tell me an SS isn't slow.

They get that talked up I expected my hair to be blown back when I went for a ride in one.