Twice as Many P platers died this year than last - Power Restrictions - Page 6

ssb2005 · 27-09-2006, 09:54 PM

if your gunna commit a crime with a gun and want an illegal one there is the black market and ways to get it. same with cars people steal them. there was a kid a while ago that drive his dads heavily modified skyline and died. the people that were going to do dumb things in a powerfull car will do the same thing in a smaller less powerfull one

Keepleft · 27-09-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

Heres a fun story from 2 weeks ago.

Theres a kid across the road from me trying to get he's P's, exept he cant read, write, and hes definatly not right in the head. Anyway someone from centrelink tells him to tell the RTA he needs his license as his father is sick, and he NEEDS to drive him around, and so they give it to him, without a test. When i heard this i got so angry. Less than a week later hes working on a farm, and takes the ute to 'fix' something. He runs it off the road, through barb wire and into a paddock, crashing it and leaving massive shreads on one side of the car.

If the RTA are stupid enough to give a mentally retarded kid a license who cant even read road signs, they should really have a good look at themselves. He previously failed the P's test 4 times before pulling this ****.

Tell me all about this if the story is 'true', I want specifics, names and locations etc and I'll take it much further. You can PM me the detail.

JP.

Keepleft · 27-09-2006, 10:08 PM

I'll just point out that licenses can have certain "license conditions" imposed, in much the same way as is done with speed limits on L, P1 and P2 categories.

Other license condition restrictions can include a limitation as to hours of the day a person may drive, that sort of thing, they are sometimes done in consultation with medical guidance. It might be that Falcon_Phill's story relates to this aspect, it might not.

Without Prejudice.

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 10:18 PM

making a driving curfew won't do a thing, drink driving is illegal but people still do it, burnouts are illegal people still do it, speeding is illegal and people still do it

DOC · 27-09-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

making a driving curfew won't do a thing, drink driving is illegal but people still do it, burnouts are illegal people still do it, speeding is illegal and people still do it

EBFalcs, Being real for 5 minute's in your mind what would do the trick ?

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 10:29 PM

nothing, it can't be stopped

Rapid Tornado · 27-09-2006, 11:00 PM

Well I find that the RTA is just as much to blame. Having been a driver who has gone through this new licensing system (L,P1,P2 2 years,Full license)
all I can say is that its a dismal attempt at trying to educate drivers.
How can touching a computer screen better educate someone then actually putting them in a car?
I say shame on the RTA because the only benefit they get out of it is that its more tests they can charge and make money on. I dont see the RTA spending this money on young driver education.
Having done the FPV driver course (basically a drive to survive course and also just did a hi performance course) its amazing how the simple things they teach you make such a difference.
Its courses like this that need to be setup for young drivers not sitting in front of a screen and touching it whenever.
I've read articles from John Bowe and other drivers and they state that education,training and changing the attitudes of young drivers is the only way to help stop these needless deaths.
Dont get me wrong I dont solely put the blame on the RTA of course the drivers are just as much to blame but the RTA (and there equivalent in other states) are the ones who put these systems in place to get your license and the continuos loss of young drivers is testament that there not doing enough and the systems arent thorough.

uranium_death · 27-09-2006, 11:10 PM

I have said too many times that all the education, penalties etc will do nothing.

Some people are simply stupid, inconsiderate ********* who think they are complete and utter top **** as they speed without a care in the world.

They may attend, but it won't change anything. So as I said, some people are doing others a favour by wrapping their (and ONLY their) carcass around a pole and bleeding a slow death, allow time for them to realise what a stupid idiot they have been, and that the messages of speeding and being a ******** have been around for 20 years, yet their minute little brains couldn't respond.

I think that a responsible P-Plater will drive a V8 without a problem.
It's when you get an egotistic little **** who wants to make his balls hang lower and his head bigger, decides to do street burnouts in front of his cool mates and cool chicks that the problems begin.

I reckon that if you're caught ******* about on your Ps, your license should be torn up and you should have to complete 2 more years on your Learner's permit.

Maybe once we drum into some people that driving is a dangerous activity, and a privilege, NOT A RIGHT, maybe they'll realise that other's lives need to be respected, even if they don't care about themselves.

photn · 28-09-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid Tornado

Well I find that the RTA is just as much to blame. Having been a driver who has gone through this new licensing system (L,P1,P2 2 years,Full license)
all I can say is that its a dismal attempt at trying to educate drivers.
How can touching a computer screen better educate someone then actually putting them in a car?
I say shame on the RTA because the only benefit they get out of it is that its more tests they can charge and make money on. I dont see the RTA spending this money on young driver education.
Having done the FPV driver course (basically a drive to survive course and also just did a hi performance course) its amazing how the simple things they teach you make such a difference.
Its courses like this that need to be setup for young drivers not sitting in front of a screen and touching it whenever.
I've read articles from John Bowe and other drivers and they state that education,training and changing the attitudes of young drivers is the only way to help stop these needless deaths.
Dont get me wrong I dont solely put the blame on the RTA of course the drivers are just as much to blame but the RTA (and there equivalent in other states) are the ones who put these systems in place to get your license and the continuos loss of young drivers is testament that there not doing enough and the systems arent thorough.

and i suppose you have a better idea on how to train people. im sure you can find the funding within the rta to get this done. im sure you can put forward a business case. Dont blame the RTA they are doing everything they can to prevent deaths. just because you dont hear about it doenst mean that we arent doing anything. there are numerous programs atm in progress. the peolpe you need to blame are the governments. Nsw Government are the ones that need to pass legislation to get all new licence holders to do this test.
and im sorry that some new licence holders cannot afford a 57g new car so that we can go and do a FPV course. as ive said earlier in this thread there is only so much you can do to stop people from dying on the road. education will not stop sum young jerk off from doing stupid things. there is always some one out there that is an idiot. there is always sum1 out there has no common scence.

the rta licence system believe it or not is stringent enough. ive seen many people fail there tests and wonder why they got them wrong.

you cant blame the RTA for every douche that gets there licence and then goes and throws everything they have learnt out the window cause they got there licence. and believe me it happens reguarly.

the whole point of having this computer test and practical test is so that you study so you pass. you learn things when your study and you will remember them when you do the test. the fact that after you do your test and say yes i have my licence and you choose to behave like an idiot is your own fault. you cant force some one to remembe and behave by the rules. all you can do is catch them when they dont.

merlin · 28-09-2006, 09:29 AM

What I find funny about this thread (well disturbing really) is the members that have been around the block a few times and are probably mostly older (over 26 at least) are giving good advice as to why P platers are more at risk, and why powerful cars are dangerous in the wrong hands but get post after post in return from 16/17/18 year olds that have been driving for 5 minutes on their L and P plates telling them how wrong they are, how there is no problem (they seem blind to the percentages) and how an 84 Corolla is as dangerous as an XR6T (think about what you are saying) in the hands of a P plater. I can tell you now that when I was 17 I would also probably talk this shite - but eventually you mature - you guys will look back on it in 10 years and laugh and say "I can't believe I said that" guaranteed.

Yes an 84 Corolla can kill you just as much as an XR6T can but which one will do more damage? Of course acceleration plays a part as I can guarantee you the Xr6T will be doing a higher speed at impact than the Corolla. And there is the key that you are all missing - impact speed = extent of injuries or death. Look at it this way - you come round a bend and see a 200 metre straight in front of you. P plater in the Corolla guns it and hits 80km/h by the end of it before they go round the next bend - P plater in the XR6T guns it and hits 160km/h before the next bend, can't wash of the speed and spins into a tree. L and P bike riders have been restricted to 250cc bikes for a while now and the mortality rate fell massivley when this came in - there is a reason they dont hand 300kmh + bikes to 16 year olds, no-one has yet been able to explain to me why this same inititive dosnt work with cars. Of course it wont stop all deaths - it is just one factor, but its worth it.

ssb2005 · 28-09-2006, 09:33 AM

the XR-6 in question is significantly safer than the corolla, it has airbags and ABS, better built etc. the car also has better brakes better handling and everything else going for it

4Vman · 28-09-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

What I find funny about this thread (well disturbing really) is the members that have been around the block a few times and are probably mostly older (over 26 at least) are giving good advice as to why P platers are more at risk, and why powerful cars are dangerous in the wrong hands but get post after post in return from 16/17/18 year olds that have been driving for 5 minutes on their L and P plates telling them how wrong they are, how there is no problem (they seem blind to the percentages) and how an 84 Corolla is as dangerous as an XR6T (think about what you are saying) in the hands of a P plater. I can tell you now that when I was 17 I would also probably talk this shite - but eventually you mature - you guys will look back on it in 10 years and laugh and say "I can't believe I said that" guaranteed.

Yes an 84 Corolla can kill you just as much as an XR6T can but which one will do more damage? Of course acceleration plays a part as I can guarantee you the Xr6T will be doing a higher speed at impact than the Corolla. And there is the key that you are all missing - impact speed = extent of injuries or death. Look at it this way - you come round a bend and see a 200 metre straight in front of you. P plater in the Corolla guns it and hits 80km/h by the end of it before they go round the next bend - P plater in the XR6T guns it and hits 160km/h before the next bend, can't wash of the speed and spins into a tree. L and P bike riders have been restricted to 250cc bikes for a while now and the mortality rate fell massivley when this came in - there is a reason they dont hand 300kmh + bikes to 16 year olds, no-one has yet been able to explain to me why this same inititive dosnt work with cars. Of course it wont stop all deaths - it is just one factor, but its worth it.

Well said, the ones who are prepared to be respectful of those who have more experience than them, accept the stats and advice they're given, be humble and mature in their approach to driving and accept that having a licence is a privilige and responsibility, not a right are the ones i want to share my driving time on the roads with, not the ones who argue the point or are in total denial of the facts.
These are the ones who display the attitude that is the cause of the problems.....

For the record ive held a licence for 20 years, done well over half a million KM's in that time, had only 1 accident that was not my fault (caused by a lunatic P plater in a turbo commodore), and have only been booked twice for speeding in 20 years and both times for less than 15 over.

photn · 28-09-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

What I find funny about this thread (well disturbing really) is the members that have been around the block a few times and are probably mostly older (over 26 at least) are giving good advice as to why P platers are more at risk, and why powerful cars are dangerous in the wrong hands but get post after post in return from 16/17/18 year olds that have been driving for 5 minutes on their L and P plates telling them how wrong they are, how there is no problem (they seem blind to the percentages) and how an 84 Corolla is as dangerous as an XR6T (think about what you are saying) in the hands of a P plater. I can tell you now that when I was 17 I would also probably talk this shite - but eventually you mature - you guys will look back on it in 10 years and laugh and say "I can't believe I said that" guaranteed.

Yes an 84 Corolla can kill you just as much as an XR6T can but which one will do more damage? Of course acceleration plays a part as I can guarantee you the Xr6T will be doing a higher speed at impact than the Corolla. And there is the key that you are all missing - impact speed = extent of injuries or death. Look at it this way - you come round a bend and see a 200 metre straight in front of you. P plater in the Corolla guns it and hits 80km/h by the end of it before they go round the next bend - P plater in the XR6T guns it and hits 160km/h before the next bend, can't wash of the speed and spins into a tree. L and P bike riders have been restricted to 250cc bikes for a while now and the mortality rate fell massivley when this came in - there is a reason they dont hand 300kmh + bikes to 16 year olds, no-one has yet been able to explain to me why this same inititive dosnt work with cars. Of course it wont stop all deaths - it is just one factor, but its worth it.

mate i agree with you there. i am on my greens and although the restrictions dont apply to me cause i got my licence b4 the restrictions came in i had a choice of and AU Fairmont series 1 4.0ltr or a ford fiesta 1.6ltr. i chose the fez, now some ppl may call me a pussy but i dont care. the fact is that i didnt feel comfortable driving a 4ltr car due to the fact that on my l's i learnt what they can do to you (lost control around a corner doing 60k. spun out and scared the crap out of me.) when my children learn to drive and get there car i plan on buying them a small car for there l's.a medium car for there p's and if there still at home i will buy them a large but not powerfull car when they get there blacks. that way they learn bit by bit how to control larger cars.

Merlin i support the restrictions of vehicles and i aggree with the more experience drivers on this site. but i get angry at every one who blames the RTA or blames some stupid reason why P platers are dying on the road. more people die from lloosing control of there car doing the speed limit than a speeding P plater dies from. i agree there is a problem there and measures are being taken but people always complain that there isnt enough. im waiting for the day the goverrnment says that no one is allowed to have cars and thats the only way to reduce the death toll. id like to see what people would say then.

photn · 28-09-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssb2005

the XR-6 in question is significantly safer than the corolla, it has airbags and ABS, better built etc. the car also has better brakes better handling and everything else going for it

all that wont save you from a 90 degree bend unless you have rails!

merlin · 28-09-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssb2005

the XR-6 in question is significantly safer than the corolla, it has airbags and ABS, better built etc. the car also has better brakes better handling and everything else going for it

These comparisons could be endless but to engage you in this specific example:

Comparing a modern corolla with an Xr6T - A Corolla has dual airbags, ABS is alot better built than the ford (the Ford weighs more is about its only advantage in a crash), the Xr6T has pretty small brakes for its performance potenial unless you dosh out for premiums, the XR6T has better handling in the right hands, in the hands of a 16yo dumb$hit bogan the corolla has better handling as it wont power oversteer when provoked.

Now a better example would be something a P plater could actually afford vs the Corolla (or any other newer non-"performance" car- lets say an $15K R33 turbo Skyline - big power + RWD + mods, no airbags (rare ones do), no abs (rare ones do), 15 year old crash design technology.

Forgetting all the above for a second explain to me why impact speed is irrelevant.

MITCHAY · 28-09-2006, 10:33 AM

merlin and 4Vman have you guys looked at the links I've provided here.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...7&postcount=92

I am interested in your views of this research. It was conducted last December and was based on WA stats, weighed up against the Victoria PWR restrictions.

4Vman · 28-09-2006, 10:35 AM

The key to all of this is READ AND UNDERSTAND the road conditions and UNDERSTAND the limits of your vehicle.... then drive well within both accordingly....If you push the limits in either scenario you're headed for trouble.
The more powerful car is more likely to bite you quicker though.

Has anyone been east bound along Doncaster road and seen the long skids and impact damage on the brick wall next to the traffic lights outside the council offices??? Its a classic text book example of stupidity, inexperience combined with too much power...

merlin · 28-09-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

merlin and 4Vman have you guys looked at the links I've provided here.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...7&postcount=92

I am interested in your views of this research. It was conducted last December and was based on WA stats, weighed up against the Victoria PWR restrictions.

Mitchay I did read it and thank-you for finding it (it was interesting), but I think it supports the fact that the majority of P platers drive moderatly powered cars which they can afford. Of course high PWR vehicles are not over-represented as only a small minority drive them.

You dont need complicated statistical studies to understand that a 300rwkw car is harder for a novice driver to control than a 100rwkw car when the ***** hits the fan. You also don't need them to understand that the terminal speed a novice can reach on a given stretch of road is proportional to the vehicles P/W ratio.

I really do hate to be harping on about the high-power thing, as I dont believe restrictions are the solution, I think they are just a very small part of the solution.

LTDHO · 28-09-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Yes an 84 Corolla can kill you just as much as an XR6T can but which one will do more damage? Of course acceleration plays a part as I can guarantee you the Xr6T will be doing a higher speed at impact than the Corolla.

At 120kph if both vehicles applied brakes at same time the P plate legal Corolla will hit at higher speed than the XR6T. Also you will have better seat belts and airbags in the no P plate legal XR6T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

And there is the key that you are all missing - impact speed = extent of injuries or death. Look at it this way - you come round a bend and see a 200 metre straight in front of you. P plater in the Corolla guns it and hits 80km/h by the end of it before they go round the next bend - P plater in the XR6T guns it and hits 160km/h before the next bend, can't wash of the speed and spins into a tree. L and P bike riders have been restricted to 250cc bikes for a while now and the mortality rate fell massivley when this came in - there is a reason they dont hand 300kmh + bikes to 16 year olds, no-one has yet been able to explain to me why this same inititive dosnt work with cars. Of course it wont stop all deaths - it is just one factor, but its worth it.

As I said the power to weight law will not save lives.

Merlin this comparison wasn't considering affordablity, it was to show that power to weight does not save lives.
I still stand and will always stand by driver education. People learn and aftr bouncing of a wall and waking up in hospital the driver is less likely to go out and do it again. Drivers need to be shown that you can not drive off from hitting a wall and it is their actions that will avoid hitting the wall.

MITCHAY · 28-09-2006, 10:53 AM

That was the point I was making. Most PWR were in the 50-74.9kw/tonne category. That is not a lot of power.

I have been thinking of an alternative. I'd say if they have these restrictions impose them for the first year and then derestrict it for the remainder.

I admit my WRX was a lot harder to drive than my TX5 when I first started driving it, but it did not take longer than a few days to get used to it.

I am not debating the fact that you are more likely to die on your Ps. That is fact.

I am debating that you are no more likely to die in a hi powered car than any other car. There is no evidence to prove this.

4Vman · 28-09-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

That was the point I was making. Most PWR were in the 50-74.9kw/tonne category. That is not a lot of power.

I have been thinking of an alternative. I'd say if they have these restrictions impose them for the first year and then derestrict it for the remainder.

I admit my WRX was a lot harder to drive than my TX5 when I first started driving it, but it did not take longer than a few days to get used to it.

I am not debating the fact that you are more likely to die on your Ps. That is fact.

I am debating that you are no more likely to die in a hi powered car than any other car. There is no evidence to prove this.

This is not just a P plate thing, its an under 26 thing.
The power to weight restrictions are to reduce the "hoon" factor too, serious injury's sustained in accidents cost the TAC far more money than fatalities...

merlin · 28-09-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

At 120kph if both vehicles applied brakes at same time the P plate legal Corolla will hit at higher speed than the XR6T. Also you will have better seat belts and airbags in the no P plate legal XR6T..

Firstly why are we comparing an '84 corolla vs an Xr6T - lets compare a 2003 Corolla vs a 2003 XR6T which is a much better comparison and eliminates the seatbelt/airbag factor.

Your example is true, the Xr6T will outbrake the Corolla if both were doing 120 - I agree. My example in return is that if the road is 100m long and both P platers plant the foot, the Corolla will only be doing 50km/h at the end of it and is more likley to be able to stop at that speed whereas the XR6T will be doing 120kmh (nevermind the exact maths here, I think you know what I getting at) and has buckleys of making the stop/corner. I think both examples are valid situations that could happen on any given day in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I still stand and will always stand by driver education. People learn and aftr bouncing of a wall and waking up in hospital the driver is less likely to go out and do it again. Drivers need to be shown that you can not drive off from hitting a wall and it is their actions that will avoid hitting the wall.

I agree 100%.

merlin · 28-09-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I am debating that you are no more likely to die in a hi powered car than any other car. There is no evidence to prove this.

OK try these pieces of evidence:

Fact 1 - Braking distance increases with speed.
Fact 2 - A high performance car is capable of a higher terminal speed than a low-performance car.
Fact 3 - A high performance car is capable of accelerating to any particular speed faster than a low-performance car.

These 3 Facts do not prove a high-performance car is dangerous. So lets add another fact.

Fact 4 - The only thing in control of the speed is the driver.

So the debate is really weather an inexperienced under 26 year old driver has more control than an experienced over 26 year old driver?

gozza · 28-09-2006, 11:39 AM

do they have a statistic on how many more P platers were on the road? than last yr

4Vman · 28-09-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

OK try these pieces of evidence:

Fact 1 - Braking distance increases with speed.
Fact 2 - A high performance car is capable of a higher terminal speed than a low-performance car.
Fact 3 - A high performance car is capable of accelerating to any particular speed faster than a low-performance car.

These 3 Facts do not prove a high-performance car is dangerous. So lets add another fact.

Fact 4 - The only thing in control of the speed is the driver.

So the debate is really weather an inexperienced under 26 year old driver has more control than an experienced over 26 year old driver?

A bit like comparing a bolt action .22 rifle with an auto M16.... both can kill, but one does far more damage and is far more lethal.
Its all about risk management and removing as many potential issues as possible because people can't be trusted to act maturely and responsibly on the roads.

photn · 28-09-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

do they have a statistic on how many more P platers were on the road? than last yr

http://whome.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafe...tstats2004.pdf this may not be P plates but its a start. i will try and find the P plate one for you.

also people from 30-39 are just as highly likely to do in a car accident. speeding.

http://whome.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafe...tstats2004.pdf

and here are the licence holders for 2004.
http://whome.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafe...tstats2004.pdf

photn · 28-09-2006, 12:02 PM

stats are also showing that it is more deadlier to be doing 60 that 110 in a metropolitan area.

4Vman · 28-09-2006, 12:05 PM

So why are people aged 18-26 2 and a half times more likely to die on our roads than those over 26? what's killing them? are martians coming down and zapping them?

photn · 28-09-2006, 12:09 PM

id try and find out but people are busy in the office at the moment

Steffo · 28-09-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

What I find funny about this thread (well disturbing really) is the members that have been around the block a few times and are probably mostly older (over 26 at least) are giving good advice as to why P platers are more at risk, and why powerful cars are dangerous in the wrong hands but get post after post in return from 16/17/18 year olds that have been driving for 5 minutes on their L and P plates telling them how wrong they are, how there is no problem (they seem blind to the percentages) and how an 84 Corolla is as dangerous as an XR6T (think about what you are saying) in the hands of a P plater. I can tell you now that when I was 17 I would also probably talk this shite - but eventually you mature - you guys will look back on it in 10 years and laugh and say "I can't believe I said that" guaranteed.

Yes an 84 Corolla can kill you just as much as an XR6T can but which one will do more damage? Of course acceleration plays a part as I can guarantee you the Xr6T will be doing a higher speed at impact than the Corolla. And there is the key that you are all missing - impact speed = extent of injuries or death. Look at it this way - you come round a bend and see a 200 metre straight in front of you. P plater in the Corolla guns it and hits 80km/h by the end of it before they go round the next bend - P plater in the XR6T guns it and hits 160km/h before the next bend, can't wash of the speed and spins into a tree. L and P bike riders have been restricted to 250cc bikes for a while now and the mortality rate fell massivley when this came in - there is a reason they dont hand 300kmh + bikes to 16 year olds, no-one has yet been able to explain to me why this same inititive dosnt work with cars. Of course it wont stop all deaths - it is just one factor, but its worth it.

I'd say an 84 Corolla is MORE dangerous then an XR6 Turbo. Why? Well, lets start with brakes. They're not very good. And 22 years on they'll be even less good. They're light, and built from flimsy, thin materials, they're not very impact resistant. I'd rather be in a hit at 100km/h in a BA then at 50 in an old Corolla.

The XR6 would also be better able to avoid an accident. What with a simple feature such as ABS, that allows inexperienced drivers who do not know how to threshold brake, to steer while braking, and possibly steer their way out of a collision. The Corolla would lock up and slide into whatever they're trying not to hit.

There is ZERO passive saftey in said Corolla. So if you do hit something or get hit, there's a very good chance that you're going to go splat inside it, whereas the Falcon driver is very well protected.

Then of course there's the POS vs New Car factor. Having just moved from a '91 Pintara that I sold for $400 to a brand new Fiesta, I can vouch for it with real experience. Young people don't take care of cars like that. They thrash them and think its fun. You're far more likely to see an old POS like that being thrashed to pieces, whereas a newer car would get taken greater care of. My mate that I sold that car to drives like crap, I hate being in the car with him, and he does it for that very reason. He didn't pay much for it, he doesn't care.

And let me give you a slightly different version of your scenario with the straight followed by bend...

P-Plater in Corolla gets onto the straight, guns it, hits 80km/h, brakes late, panics, hits the brakes hard, car locks up and slides straight into a tree. P-Plater dies.

P-Plater in XR6 Turbo gets onto the straight, guns it, hits 160km/h, brakes late, panics, hits the brakes hard, they don't lock up, is able to manouvre away from said tree while under full braking application.

And to finish, my mother died resulting from an accident in a 1988 Corolla. She was not in any way a fast or dangerous driver, it was just a chain of unfortunate events caused by other drivers on the road that led to it. Had she been driving say, an EL Falcon (the newest at the time), she would be alive today. Passive saftey (ie: airbags) means alot.

Vehicle restrictions won't do anything. Idiots will continue to be idiots in vehicles that are now not capable of saving them in any way.