WTF !!! VE Wheels Car Of The Year !!!!

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by TE50 056

Id like to see that, then we will get to the corners and its all over

Open the Motor Mag with the PCOTY. Check SS (SS is same drivetrain, suspension and wheels/tyres as Calais) laptime versus GT (I know the F6 was better but we don't seem to be commenting on the best car FPV produce), whoops guess he couldn't drive a Ford proparly, not like you aye. :

The VE came up short for me. As for hero cars and where they should sit in the scheme of things, I wonder why a carry over Ford product was able to comprehensively beat the supposedly best hero car to ever come out of Holden performance workshop?

Having read the PCOTY writeup, it really was dissapointing. Value for money. Whats that got to do with performance. A Enzo has stunning performance, but would be beaten by a Corolla given Motors critera. Holdens Performance arm produced a car which beat the F6 (lets not mention the GT) in 0-100, 1/4 mile and lap time (straight line and cornering for those who need it explained). The fact its paint shade didn't match somebodies wifes lipstick so it got a low score just shows the value of all these awards.

The biggest problem I see is that most people on this site still don't understand that Holden doesn't see Ford as their competitor anymore. They have happily handed over the fleet market so Ford can battle Toyota for the biggest discount. Holden have gone out to take on the world and so far have certainly at least managed to open the door. Ford meanwhile are struggling to complete the Orion (the BF/BF2 upgrade was basically cosmetic because Ford didn't have the money to do anything else).

Resale rating over three years for the FPV GT is 58%, resale rating for the VE SS-V over three years is 53%, resale rating for the VE Calais is 48%. Massive.

That is not a fact its somebodies opinion. The VE Calais has only been out six months. Ask the Leasing companies what they see the resale as being, they all revised their costs in December because they now beleive the VE models will have better resale than the VZ's which their initial cost models were based on (I know cause I got 3 quotes over 4 months on VE SV6 before I got my BF XR6).

Oh and while I'm at it lets take a stab at why the GT is so much more than just the car. Could it be that Ford are trading off the name and heritage of the best performance car to come out of Australia SO FAR (GTHO). It surely isn't because the GT is in the same league as its namesake. In fact if you think the GT is anything more than an overpriced average performance car then you really are the exact target Ford aimed the car at, good luck to you. I have a bridge you could also invest in.

Well done Holden the VE was a deserving winner (except the pov pack Omega/Berlina), this year. Orion will not be the 2008 COTY as it will not be released in time for next years awards. (Judging is Jan 08, Orion target release is April 2008). It will therefore be eligable for the 2009 COTY. Its main competition could be the VF Commodore.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Mick K.

What was interesting is that the most of the drive footage was showing V8 VEs - no wonder - that alloytech V6 is a shocker. Noisy, harsh, no low down torque and max power right at the redline.

MK

It's easy to spot those who have not driven a VE with comments like this.
I fail to understand where people come up with terrible misconceptions like this. I have driven a VE SV6 and found what you are saying completely false. I found it smooth and quiet with plenty of torque down low, as an unbiased person I generally couldn't fault it.
I think you will also find that most engines produce their max power close to redline, so what else is new?

[Falcon Coupe]

Congratulations to Holden, the VE is now offically a "tall poppy"
Don't Aussies just love THEM ! _2:

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Ryan

About time someone said it.

I hate it when people slag off OHVs for being old tech (Usually boy racers and their fulli sik DOHC 4s), when OHCs and DOHCs are just as old. (Maybe a bit newer, but not by much)

Comparing OHVs to OHCs is like comparing a blonde to a brunette. As long as they put out who really cares :

I love my fulli sik DOHC 4 too :P

[FordFalconBF]

The new VE commondore is bloody ugly.. I work at Mitsubishi and the 380's look better than that poc... Sorry I'm biast, but The VT looked better..

Cya,
Alan

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by colossus

and the fact the resales stinks more than a dead fish...

Then falcon must have resale that stinks more than a whole pod of dead whales

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by havoc19

Ve's Are Crap, the backs look like a mitsubishi 380 and the front headlights are similar to Ba headlights and the sides of them look like a mazda 6 or some crap like that, so how can they say its a entirely new car? & it won an award? how crap

Stoopid post of the day award goes to..............

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by BadMac

The biggest problem I see is that most people on this site still don't understand that Holden doesn't see Ford as their competitor anymore. They have happily handed over the fleet market so Ford can battle Toyota for the biggest discount. Holden have gone out to take on the world and so far have certainly at least managed to open the door. Ford meanwhile are struggling to complete the Orion (the BF/BF2 upgrade was basically cosmetic because Ford didn't have the money to do anything else).

Now where does one start with this comment. I know

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by DOC

Your Cool champ, can i ask a very stupid question, have you owned a XR8 AU / BA or BA / BF GT ?

i really dont know this answer

Pete

Nope, i never was in the possition to own one.

Ive had a AUIII XR6 VCT and a BA XR6 NA, then when it came to buying a V8 i drove the BFII XR8 six speed auto, then a SSV (both were fitted with leather etc). The XR8 was my first drive and I was like ow wow (i have driven a BA GTP before and a few F6's). I got out of it and was pretty much set on getting one as it was powerful, Looked good and i was used to it. Then I drove the SSV and it was that wow factor all over again. As for ending up with the Calais I drove a Calais V and was happy with the extra gizmos over having a body kit / bigger wheels, then ended up with a Calais.

The biggest difference between the 2 cars for me was steering (BF was extremely heavy like my old BA and had very little feel to it) and the handling. If it wasnt for those 2 factors i could have very well bought the XR8 as power isnt the be all for me, but why buy a car that looks the same as one you had 3 years ago, for me the VE was going to be something different and personally im over Ford service bullshit!

Id still buy a Ford tomorrow if money permitted, a Turbo six of some description and we still have 2 Territorys in the driveway. I will say one thing though as i was at Holden today getting some parts, Ford have a serious issue with product differentiation, while i was there there were a number of cars parked next to each other, a statesmen, a GTS, a Omega and a Calais V, all these cars had different characteristics that stood out. You go to a Ford dealer and park an XT, Fairmont Ghia, GTP and a Fairlane next to each other and you wonder what all the fuss is about, they all fundementally carry the same basic parts, theres no side vents on the GTP, no differentiated Taillamps, nothing! I understand this is a Ford forum and i appreciate that, my point is soley to do with the fact why Holden won COTY and why Holden can move 2000+ more units a month.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Nope, i never was in the possition to own one.

Ive had a AUIII XR6 VCT and a BA XR6 NA, then when it came to buying a V8 i drove the BFII XR8 six speed auto, then a SSV (both were fitted with leather etc). The XR8 was my first drive and I was like ow wow (i have driven a BA GTP before and a few F6's). I got out of it and was pretty much set on getting one as it was powerful, Looked good and i was used to it. Then I drove the SSV and it was that wow factor all over again. As for ending up with the Calais I drove a Calais V and was happy with the extra gizmos over having a body kit / bigger wheels, then ended up with a Calais.

The biggest difference between the 2 cars for me was steering (BF was extremely heavy like my old BA and had very little feel to it) and the handling. If it wasnt for those 2 factors i could have very well bought the XR8 as power isnt the be all for me, but why buy a car that looks the same as one you had 3 years ago, for me the VE was going to be something different and personally im over Ford service bullshit!

Id still buy a Ford tomorrow if money permitted, a Turbo six of some description and we still have 2 Territorys in the driveway. I understand this is a Ford forum and i appreciate that, my point is soley to do with the fact that Holden won COTY.

Ah! it's all good, forgot to mention before congrats to holden for the award, well done, and it can only be good for all, for me i cant get around the style of the thing with the front guards still leaving me puzzled each time i see it.

It sort of reminds me that even though Mary johns won the high school beauty parade, not everyone was quick to want to take her for a ride around the block either, to some she looked great, others saw bumps in all of the wrong places.

[xfghia460]

Yeah wheels car of the year. The base model omega doesn't have a/con, rear electric windows oh but it does get one of those space saver spare tyres that should be banned in Australia as standard, Oh thats right its a Commodore so of course it won. Wheels mag is not worth the paper its written on. Absolute bunch of ******* who no ******* all about cars.

[Jason[98.EL]]

it doesnt surprise me one bit that the VE got wheels car of the year

look at how they advertised it ford need to take a few notes on the way they advertise the new falcon when released they just might get there to

jason

[merlin]

Originally Posted by BadMac

Open the Motor Mag with the PCOTY.

. Holdens Performance arm produced a car which beat the F6 (lets not mention the GT) in 0-100, 1/4 mile and lap time (straight line and cornering for those who need it explained). The fact its paint shade didn't match somebodies wifes lipstick so it got a low score just shows the value of all these awards.
.

Actually the brand new VE GTS was comprehensivley smashed by the now 4 year old F6 in PCOTY - performance times were all near identical poofteenth of a second stuff - where do you Holden guys get this stuff from? MOTOR later explained that it lost due to its dynamics being sub-par which included its absolutley shizer-house 6 speed auto being nowhere near as good as the ZF. So no it wasnt about paint shade as you tried to spin it, but rather about other dynamic qualities which Holden have been behind in for the last 4 years (and it seems continue to be behind in no matter how much money they throw at things).

[merlin]

Originally Posted by BadMac

Oh and while I'm at it lets take a stab at why the GT is so much more than just the car. Could it be that Ford are trading off the name and heritage of the best performance car to come out of Australia SO FAR (GTHO). It surely isn't because the GT is in the same league as its namesake. In fact if you think the GT is anything more than an overpriced average performance car then you really are the exact target Ford aimed the car at, good luck to you. I have a bridge you could also invest in.
.

Lol seriously the irony is killing me here.

Your entire post could swap the letters from GT to GTS and still be accurate. Holden called their VE Clubsport the VE GTS, and a whole heap of suckers are buying them thinking they are like the VY GTS et al.IT HAS THE SAME POWER AS A CLUBSPORT - What exactly is the difference?

[colossus]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

Stoopid post of the day award goes to..............

You are a Holden salesman so you sould hardly comment. or didnt you want that fact to come out?

AS for the resale comment - once again I never said Ford was any better...

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by Coalminer

Good for Holden. A very deserved win. I'm actually surprised that there is so much bad blood towards the VE on this site. But i'm pretty sure that MRC isn't the first thing introduced to Aussie motorists by Holden before Ford. Cast my mind back...........ABS,IRS, airbags, traction control the list goes on.

Oh i forgot..........has the falcon station wagon got coil suspension on the rear yet...........

May I ask you how many loaded up Commodore wagons you have seen? Seen any towing a horse float or caravan? Not many aye. Ford actually had a coil sprung EA wagon prototype but I guess their marketing research on why people use wagons for stopped them from releasing it. Do not get me started on the IRS Commodore wagon loaded up....

[Coalminer]

Originally Posted by V8GLI

Nah I cant see any similarities here :

Like Bucket said even Holden says that it used design influences of Audi, BMW and Mercedes in their design.

Yeh i see what your talking about:

Antenna location.......mmm.........Nope
Rear tail lights...........mmm........nope
bootlid shape..........................nope
rear 1/4 panels........................nope
door handles...........................nope
1/4 window in rear door.............nope

What they said was the the Audi, Mercedes and BMW were used to benchmark the finish and fit of car components.

Your right though, the simarlarities between those 2 cars is uncanny. A silver BF falcon gt without stripes from the same angle looks nothing like those 2 cars.

I notice the BF Falcon wasn't bused as a benchmark......... :

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Coalminer

Good for Holden. A very deserved win. I'm actually surprised that there is so much bad blood towards the VE on this site. But i'm pretty sure that MRC isn't the first thing introduced to Aussie motorists by Holden before Ford. Cast my mind back...........ABS,IRS, airbags, traction control the list goes on.

Oh i forgot..........has the falcon station wagon got coil suspension on the rear yet...........

Yeah but arguing who brought what first to the Australian motor car is kind of like arguing who is going to win a race at the special olympics. Sort of null and void dont you think considering most other car makers in the world had all this stuff many decades ago. Wer'e a bit slow here by world standards, we are gradually catching up but still...

[Powdered Toast Man]

No they woudnt say that they used the Falcon as a benchmark would they but they would have considered it also. You cant tell me that the back of the Commodore doesnt remind you of an Audi. I said remind you not looks identical not resembles. Even the wheels look similar in design but that was just a fluke with those 2 pics.

Why do people believe that Holden designed the car without any influences from any other car! They are building it to compete with these cars so of course they consider what the customers of other cars like about them in order to design a product that the customer wants. Very rarely do car makers design cars without any outside influences of any kind. That would be a big leap of faith, look what happened with the AU. Not that I am claiming Ford didnt use other cars in that design either, Taurus comes to mind, just that they didnt consider what the customers wanted and the sales reflected that. (Im not bashing the AU either to all the AU lovers out there)

And I have nothing against the Commodore! I havent driven one so I cant comment on it. By the sounds of it it deserved to win.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by merlin

Actually the brand new VE GTS was comprehensivley smashed by the now 4 year old F6 in PCOTY - performance times were all near identical poofteenth of a second stuff - where do you Holden guys get this stuff from? MOTOR later explained that it lost due to its dynamics being sub-par which included its absolutley shizer-house 6 speed auto being nowhere near as good as the ZF. So no it wasnt about paint shade as you tried to spin it, but rather about other dynamic qualities which Holden have been behind in for the last 4 years (and it seems continue to be behind in no matter how much money they throw at things).

F6 is just over 2 years old thanks. :

[merlin]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

F6 is just over 2 years old thanks. :

Fair enough - its hard to remember that far back though

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

F6 is just over 2 years old thanks. :

But its based on a 4 year old platform

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

But its based on a 4 year old platform

And whats wrong with that? You can continuely improve an existing platform to compete with new ones. Show me some stats that prove or disprove that the VE chassis/structure is any better than the Falcons?

AFAIK Orion is still based off the same platform, but again, modified and upgraded.

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by colossus

You are a Holden salesman so you sould hardly comment. or didnt you want that fact to come out?

AS for the resale comment - once again I never said Ford was any better...

What does it matter if i sell Holden's or not? I can still comment, and be fair, and not make complete stupid coments like the one to which i replied.

I can see that each car has its pluses and minuses. I ain't no one eyed fan boy that needs to rely on pointless jibberish to get my point across (not refering to you)

[Franky]

LSTerritoryGhia you say you have nothing against Fords yet you pretty much bash them in every post. I get it your a fan of both camps but expect a little flaming here and there (not always serious either)... remember what forum your own, not everyone loves the VE

I for one would have hoped the new falcon and commodore could go head to head to win car of the year but with Aurion as the biggest VE competitor it was always going to win. if I could i'd put a million dollars on the new falcon for '08 COTY

[Coalminer]

Originally Posted by Franky

if I could i'd put a million dollars on the new falcon for '08 COTY

I'll take you up on any amount

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by Polyal

And whats wrong with that? You can continuely improve an existing platform to compete with new ones. Show me some stats that prove or disprove that the VE chassis/structure is any better than the Falcons?

AFAIK Orion is still based off the same platform, but again, modified and upgraded.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying get across. The VE GTS is based on a brand new platform, but its getting beaten by a car with a 4 year old platform.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Franky

LSTerritoryGhia you say you have nothing against Fords yet you pretty much bash them in every post. I get it your a fan of both camps but expect a little flaming here and there (not always serious either)... remember what forum your own, not everyone loves the VE

I for one would have hoped the new falcon and commodore could go head to head to win car of the year but with Aurion as the biggest VE competitor it was always going to win. if I could i'd put a million dollars on the new falcon for '08 COTY

Go read my 4000 posts and then tell me about how much i bash ford.

Whats with getting so serious, who gives a ****, ive got my opinion and ill stick to it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

I think you misunderstood what I was trying get across. The VE GTS is based on a brand new platform, but its getting beaten by a car with a 4 year old platform.

Just like the BA GT was beaten by the VT Platform which was 5 years old when it was released. The point of this is?

Woolah, im a bit over the snakey bullshit that goes on here and who really gives a ****... The car won the award so its time everyone got over it, its nearly always outsold the Falcon for the last 10 years, people don't buy cars because they are crap, they do so for a reason.

[Wally]

Its eems only two of us actually have a VE as such it seems to me that we are the only two qualified to speak about the car. In another thread I was quite open about the problem I had with my car (split fuel tank) and even then I got the rounds as if I was bashing Ford, for heavens sake.

Indignant posts about how the VE is rubbish and therefore the Falcon is better does nothing to elevate the positive profile of Ford enthusiasts. Citing obscure street drags as proof means nothing except that there are stupid people in Holdens and Fords out there. Repeating and building on heresay is nonsense.

You guys have the benefit of two impartial members telling you that the Calais is a cracker jack car. It may well turn out to be a lemon, but so far my experience has been very enjoyable. Why some of you feel the need to attack the likes of LSTerritoryGhia just astonishes me. Friendly banter and flaming is one thing, but I don't have to be Nostradamus to see where this topic is going.