Covid 19 -

Originally Posted by zilo

Darling, you are grasping at straws...

This is not an anti-vax message...

It is absolutely an antivax message.

BTW...quoting youtube videos as supporting adult discussion is where credibility is lost in my world.

Yeah that makes no sense, sweetheart. It was the MSNBC's youtube channel that I linked, they are a televised news station in the united states. More credible than Fox News, I might argue...
Would you believe even our own ABC has a youtube channel? They not only stream each state's daily covid conferences live each day but you can also go back and watch any that you missed.

[russellw]

Global 30/1/22 (figures up to 29/1/22)

During the last 15 days, global CMR's have mostly been dropping with the global whole of pandemic average now at 1.522% compared to 1.713% in the previous period and 2.281% a year ago today.

Case number continue to skyrocket with 48.56M in the last 15 days compared to 35M in the previous period with 136,340 deaths in the last 15 days for a CMR of 0.281% on an unadjusted basis. That's 31.6% more than the 103,594 deaths in the previous period despite the 38.6% increase in cases although the adjusted CMR based on the previous period case numbers is not so healthy at 0.390% but that's far from an exact science.

Note that 'adjusted' CMR uses the case numbers from between 16 and 30 days ago and the mortalities from the last 15 days

Overall the increase in cases numbers was 13.0% but the variance in the number of deaths only 2.4% so that's a positive sign.

Countries (with <100k cases) that were well above that growth rate are headed by Réunion (+43.4%); Australia (+39.1%); Denmark (+34.9%); Norway (+33.9%); Guadeloupe (+29.8%); France (+27.9%); Japan (+27.7%); Uruguay (+25.0%); Sweden (+24.6%); Slovenia (+24.5%); Maldives (+23.9%); Belgium (+22.1%); Finland and Latvia (+21.9%); Switzerland (+21.8%); Austria (+21.6%) and Panama (+21.2%). The USA +12.6%) and UK (+8.2%) fared a bit better.

Very few countries saw their mortalities increase by much with only South Korea (+11.1%), Finland (+11.2%), Laos (+11.5%), Réunion (+13.0%) and Australia (+29.0%) having double digit growth amongst countries with >100k cases.

Belarus, British Virgin Islands, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, DRC, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Fiji, Ghana, Greenland, Guinea, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Laos, Madagascar, Malawi, Namibia, Nicaragua, Nigeria, South Africa, St. Vincent Grenadine, Uganda and Zimbabwe all recorded worse overall CMR's than the previous period - there's a fairly obvious pattern there.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Why do people that ask questions like this get discounted as anti vaxxers, or conspiracy theorists or just plain old nut jobs?

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Bit I think there is a transparency issue, and there is a huge financial issue, and there’s a power imbalance that stops people from getting and discussing facts.

I agree with these bits. Asking questions can get you into a lot of heated debate and trouble these days. It just makes me more suss to be honest. In my circle of friends, there are those with strong opinions on the vaccines from both sides. I have been attacked from both sides, as I'm for (pro) vaccination but anti wholesale mandates (I understand there is a need for mandate in high risk settings). To be honest, the attacks from the "pro vaccine" camp tends to be a lot more vicious when you start asking questions.

Originally Posted by zilo

BTW...quoting youtube videos as supporting adult discussion is where credibility is lost in my world.

You boomer Youtube, google etc is just a platform. Its the source of who is publishing to these platforms that you should question

[zilo]

Originally Posted by leesa

It is absolutely an antivax message.

Rubbish.

Originally Posted by leesa

Yeah that makes no sense, sweetheart. It was the MSNBC's youtube channel that I linked, they are a televised news station in the united states. More credible than Fox News, I might argue...

Youtube for all your facts? Now I know why little makes sense to you.

Certainly not the place for reliable global Covid information.

Originally Posted by leesa

Would you believe even our own ABC has a youtube channel? They not only stream each state's daily covid conferences live each day but you can also go back and watch any that you missed.

ROFL? You watch the ABC for news content....

Sorry...I don't like womens football and that's about all get on the GAYBC

Complete with empty stadiums....

You seriously spend time watching ABC reruns?

Show me an ABC reporter that is:-

1. A man
2. A man that's not a vegan
3. A hetrerosexual man
4. A man NOT representing some fringe minority.
5. A man that can find a job elsewhere...

Go on...I dare you.

BTW....Al Jazeera has world news without ads.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by zilo

BTW....Al Jazeera has world news without ads.

You watch Al Jazeera as a source of truth?

From The Factual: Over a dataset of 1,000 articles, Al Jazeera scored an average Factual Grade of 54.3%. This is well below the average of 61.9% for all 240 news sources that we analysed, placing the site in the 18th percentile of our dataset.

However, it is also fair to say that their reporting has less bias:

Al Jazeera had an average Writing Tone score of 0.69, placing it in the 68th percentile in our dataset. This suggests that articles from Al Jazeera typically have a more neutral tone. The average Writing Tone score for the entire dataset was 0.56.

Further: MBFC assigns Al Jazeera a “Left-Center” bias due to story selection that at times favours the left.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by russellw

You watch Al Jazeera as a source of truth?

From The Factual: Over a dataset of 1,000 articles, Al Jazeera scored an average Factual Grade of 54.3%. This is well below the average of 61.9% for all 240 news sources that we analysed, placing the site in the 18th percentile of our dataset.

However, it is also fair to say that their reporting has less bias:

Al Jazeera had an average Writing Tone score of 0.69, placing it in the 68th percentile in our dataset. This suggests that articles from Al Jazeera typically have a more neutral tone. The average Writing Tone score for the entire dataset was 0.56.

Further: MBFC assigns Al Jazeera a “Left-Center” bias due to story selection that at times favours the left.

And.......Al Jazeera has a channel on youtube

[prktkljokr]

Before I get bombarded with being a anti Vaxxer or that I am a pro Vaxxer, This is a genuine question.

So from what I understand, if I'm fully Vaxxed, I can catch it , I can spread it, I can end up in hospital with it, and I can still die from it, but the symptoms might be "milder", but its ok for me to wander the community and mingle with my good to go pass.

But if I was not Vaxxed, I can still catch it , I can still spread it, I can still end up in hospital with it, and I can still die from it, the effects might be mild or aggressive, but im not allowed into the community or allowed to mingle with the Vaxxed, in lock down I will not be allowed to go to work with the vaccinated even if I dont have it?

I just want to know why a vaccine that is meant to protect me might or might not protect me, it does have side affects for those with known heart problems from what I have found out and confirmed by my GP, pity the ones that don't know like the 6 funerals I had to attend, 2 blood clots and the other 4 were heart related within weeks of getting the jab, and now my mates son who is in hospital with an adverse reaction of Myocarditis which is a Heart condition in a always healthy 22 year old within days of getting the jab?.

Sorry, it's not really what I thought a vaccine was?, and I don't know why the government is so hell bent on us getting a vaccine that might or might not work against a mutant variant of this.

Im not going to say whether I am Vaxxed or not as I think everyone's medical status should be private.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by zilo

WHO published new vaccine guidance. Here’s what it says: children should not take the coronavirus vaccine. Why? The drugs are too dangerous.

Here he is quoting the WHO guidelines back at them and questioning the about face in guidance relating to children's safety.

I read the opinion piece that bolded quote is from. Nowhere does he reference which WHO document he is talking about, and nowhere does he quote it directly.

I could only find one guidance document WRT vaccinating kids, published in November (ie. AFTER he wrote his piece), and it said kids are simply a lower priority while high risk populations in developing nations have yet to be given the vaccine. That's a wildly different message than your quote implies.

Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day

https://www.statesman.com/story/news...id/4989132001/

Its the same old faulty logic applied by antivaxxers here that question the TGA's vaccine adverse reaction reporting stats.

Amazing how many antivaxxers no longer have the courage of their convictions, now they're not antivaxxers, they're just 'questioning' and 'standing up for their freedoms'.

Give me a break. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's certainly not a Dyson.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Sorry, it's not really what I thought a vaccine was?, and I don't know why the government is so hell bent on us getting a vaccine that might or might not work against a mutant variant of this.

Because even if you get infected, your likelihood of getting hospitalised is substantially lower, around 15-fold.

So lets theorise for a moment. Nobody gets vaccinated and omicron hits. We have at least the same level of hospitalisations (but quite likely at least double given we know the vaccine has 30-40% effectiveness against infection in recently vaccinated/boostered people), but now there's no protection against serious illness. So perhaps 15x as many people die, or around 25,000 people so far.

And that's omicron. If we'd taken the same approach with delta, we get a similar number of deaths, but that was with major lockdowns. So lets scrap the lockdowns since this is 'just a flu', and you're probably looking at well north of 100k deaths.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Before I get bombarded with being a anti Vaxxer or that I am a pro Vaxxer, This is a genuine question.

So from what I understand, if I'm fully Vaxxed, I can catch it , I can spread it, I can end up in hospital with it, and I can still die from it, but the symptoms might be "milder", but its ok for me to wander the community and mingle with my good to go pass.

But if I was not Vaxxed, I can still catch it , I can still spread it, I can still end up in hospital with it, and I can still die from it, the effects might be mild or aggressive, but im not allowed into the community or allowed to mingle with the Vaxxed, in lock down I will not be allowed to go to work with the vaccinated even if I dont have it?

I just want to know why a vaccine that is meant to protect me might or might not protect me, it does have side affects for those with known heart problems from what I have found out and confirmed by my GP, pity the ones that don't know like the 6 funerals I had to attend, 2 blood clots and the other 4 were heart related within weeks of getting the jab, and now my mates son who is in hospital with an adverse reaction of Myocarditis which is a Heart condition in a always healthy 22 year old within days of getting the jab?.

Sorry, it's not really what I thought a vaccine was?, and I don't know why the government is so hell bent on us getting a vaccine that might or might not work against a mutant variant of this.

Im not going to say whether I am Vaxxed or not as I think everyone's medical status should be private.

The odds of someone dying from the vaccine are that long , that for you to know 6 people , you should of already bought a lotto ticket.

Your going to win for sure.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You hopefully being a reasonably educated person should know all medicines go through a strict testing regime before being approved for public use.

What I didn't realise, before this pandemic and all the focus on vaccines, is that the testing is done by the manufacturer themselves. Approving bodies like TGA and FDA rely on the data that the manufacturers give them. I'd like to see more independence in the testing regime.

Some people from the early trials have actually testified that their adverse side effects were ignored and dismissed by manufacturers. Maybe not big enough to change the safety threshold, but hardly gives you the full confidence you once had when once you know about it.

The US and UK gave emergency use approval. TGA here gave provisional approval... the only definition for "provisional approval" I could find on TGA's website was this one related to prescription medicine, but I assume it would be somewhat similar.

"Provisional approval of prescription medicines
20 June 2019
Provisional approval allows us to approve some prescription medicines for a limited period of time while more research is conducted."

Not sure if CV19 vaccines have now been moved to full approval. But it does show there were still some levels of uncertainty at the early stages.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by b0son

Because even if you get infected, your likelihood of getting hospitalised is substantially lower, around 15-fold.

So lets theorise for a moment. Nobody gets vaccinated and omicron hits. We have at least the same level of hospitalisations (but quite likely at least double given we know the vaccine has 30-40% effectiveness against infection in recently vaccinated/boostered people), but now there's no protection against serious illness. So perhaps 15x as many people die, or around 25,000 people so far.

And that's omicron. If we'd taken the same approach with delta, we get a similar number of deaths, but that was with major lockdowns. So lets scrap the lockdowns since this is 'just a flu', and you're probably looking at well north of 100k deaths.

I'm not against vaccination, I just don't agree with the way our so called leaders are resorting to to push it and I'm not sure that they have done enough to protect us from the Vaccine itself.

They have done wrong by my good friends that have died from the vax itself and the many thousands that have already died around the world, they are just a figure that the government can live with, collateral damage?, funny how the Government set up that they or the Big Pharma companies cant be held responsible for deaths from a adverse reaction.

The people I work with that openly say they have had it 2 of them are having health issues all of a sudden related to the vaccine and have 1 with a exemption from getting it because they know it will kill him.

Look I'm not so sure anymore that they do have their ducks in a row with this vaccine, plus if you go through the figures of the past, the Flu takes out a lot of people world wide every year leading up to Covid, Covid is taking a small percentage more, its here we have to deal with it, im sure there will be more and more vaccines and them telling us we are more protected the more of it we have, but we are at 3 now with them suggesting a 4th will make it even harder for the virus, when will it stop, do we need to have 10 each?.

Lets say they have it wrong and this vaccine has a problem that has not shown its head yet, who are they hurting?, looks to be every one they are mandating to get it and the ones that they are making get it more and more.

So if for argument sake if I don't get it and I'm wrong, who am I hurting?

I don't understand that if my work colleagues are all vaccinated and lets say I'm not, I cant work with them if we go into lock down just in case I infect them, but one of them can get infected and bring it to work?, who is it I would be hurting to make it so I cant work for not being vaccinated?

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by MrEL

The odds of someone dying from the vaccine are that long , that for you to know 6 people , you should of already bought a lotto ticket.

Your going to win for sure.

I have a very very large circle of friends, 2 were close relations.

Its funny I dont know anyone with Covid either maybe i should buy a Lotto ticket for that reason too

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

What I didn't realise, before this pandemic and all the focus on vaccines, is that the testing is done by the manufacturer themselves. Approving bodies like TGA and FDA rely on the data that the manufacturers give them. I'd like to see more independence in the testing regime.

Some people from the early trials have actually testified that their adverse side effects were ignored and dismissed by manufacturers. Maybe not big enough to change the safety threshold, but hardly gives you the full confidence you once had when once you know about it.

The US and UK gave emergency use approval. TGA here gave provisional approval... the only definition for "provisional approval" I could find on TGA's website was this one related to prescription medicine, but I assume it would be somewhat similar.



Not sure if CV19 vaccines have now been moved to full approval. But it does show there were still some levels of uncertainty at the early stages.

It will always be the manufacturers doing the tests since they are the ones putting in the money doing their research, god help the manufacturers if they are fudging the figures and get caught out, imagine the ramifications and lawsuits.
Like you I would like to see more independent scrutiny in their research but that is up to government organisations that regulate this industry.
Cheers

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I'm not against vaccination, I just don't agree with the way our so called leaders are resorting to to push it and I'm not sure that they have done enough to protect us from the Vaccine itself.

They have done wrong by my good friends that have died from the vax itself and the many thousands that have already died around the world, they are just a figure that the government can live with, collateral damage?, funny how the Government set up that they or the Big Pharma companies cant be held responsible for deaths from a adverse reaction.

The people I work with that openly say they have had it 2 of them are having health issues all of a sudden related to the vaccine and have 1 with a exemption from getting it because they know it will kill him.

Look I'm not so sure anymore that they do have their ducks in a row with this vaccine, plus if you go through the figures of the past, the Flu takes out a lot of people world wide every year leading up to Covid, Covid is taking a small percentage more, its here we have to deal with it, im sure there will be more and more vaccines and them telling us we are more protected the more of it we have, but we are at 3 now with them suggesting a 4th will make it even harder for the virus, when will it stop, do we need to have 10 each?.

Lets say they have it wrong and this vaccine has a problem that has not shown its head yet, who are they hurting?, looks to be every one they are mandating to get it and the ones that they are making get it more and more.

So if for argument sake if I don't get it and I'm wrong, who am I hurting?

I don't understand that if my work colleagues are all vaccinated and lets say I'm not, I cant work with them if we go into lock down just in case I infect them, but one of them can get infected and bring it to work?, who is it I would be hurting to make it so I cant work for not being vaccinated?

No medicine or medical procedure is fool proof, do you realise how many people die daily from adverse reactions to medicines and operations world wide, covid vaccine is no different. There will always be an element of risk.

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

So if for argument sake if I don't get it and I'm wrong, who am I hurting?

Probably noone, provided you don't take yourself to hospital if you do catch it and end up deteriorating. Would you agree to those terms? The country's medical system can't cope with the amount of people that would need assistance if everyone were unvaccinated. We don't have the hospitals, the supplies, the beds or the number of staff to operate it all. That's how we end up with people dying from gallstones, like other countries have experienced.

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They have done wrong by my good friends that have died from the vax itself and the many thousands that have already died around the world, they are just a figure that the government can live with, collateral damage?,

if you go through the figures of the past, the Flu takes out a lot of people world wide every year leading up to Covid, Covid is taking a small percentage more, its here we have to deal with it

Out of interest, how come you're happy to accept people dying of flu as the cost of business and they're just a figure you can live with but it's somehow different for people dying from the vaccine? Are vaccine deaths not also a small percentage? Why is that small percentage not okay but the small percentage of flu deaths okay? a death is a death, no? It just sounds to me like you're okay with accepting a percentage of deaths provided it's not one that you or your friends qualify for. If other people are caught up in that percentage then it's okay.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

What I didn't realise, before this pandemic and all the focus on vaccines, is that the testing is done by the manufacturer themselves. Approving bodies like TGA and FDA rely on the data that the manufacturers give them. I'd like to see more independence in the testing regime.

This is true for all medicines. It didnt bother you with nurofen, or your antibiotics, why is it a problem now?

Not sure if CV19 vaccines have now been moved to full approval. But it does show there were still some levels of uncertainty at the early stages.

The only difference between provisional and full approval was that the phase 3 follow-up studies (the ones where they check back with the trial participants for long term effects) were over a shorter timeframe than usual (2mths instead of 6). The 6mth data has long since been completed and full approval granted. And guess what? Nothing identified that wasnt already observed in 2 mths. The only real uncertainty is your own.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Lets say they have it wrong and this vaccine has a problem that has not shown its head yet

vaccine issues show up within weeks, not years/decades after.

So if for argument sake if I don't get it and I'm wrong, who am I hurting?

you mean other than the other people you unknowingly transmit it to? like your friend who cant be vaccinated because it will kill them?

THAT is why the government are pushing so hard for everyone to be vaccinated. because of the people who cant be vaccinated. the more of us that are, the more of a fighting chance they've got, because an indefinite lockdown (even lockdown lite) is a fool's errand.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Itsme

It will always be the manufacturers doing the tests since they are the ones putting in the money doing their research, god help the manufacturers if they are fudging the figures and get caught out, imagine the ramifications and lawsuits.
Like you I would like to see more independent scrutiny in their research but that is up to government organisations that regulate this industry.
Cheers

At the risk of being shouted down for sharing a youtube video....



And to set the context around this hearing, (it was not an antivax exercise).....

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...ne/7785463002/

Also note that governments have given Pfizer and Moderna indemnity on vaccine injuries. It'll be interesting to see what one needs to do / prove to get access to government compensation schemes.

As mentioned before, I am hesitant on my 3rd because of the effects I felt after my 1st. Its a huge dilemma for me because my mum is immune compromised. At first my parents were shouting me down for not getting the 3rd sooner, but when my Dad shared the story of my side effect with his circle of friends, he was surprised to hear that 3 others had reported something similar. They have now asked me to see if I can get GP approval to have the AZ shot as a booster instead, and that will likely be the way I will go if it becomes a mandate.

Originally Posted by b0son

This is true for all medicines. It didnt bother you with nurofen, or your antibiotics, why is it a problem now?

Because its only now been given the attention, so when one starts to hear and learn something new......whats wrong with asking questions?

I don't take nurofen...isn't that the stuff that destroys your liver? The last time I took antibiotics was because an illness got hold of me when I was in a country where hygiene wasn't great....it was to treat/cure whatever I had.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by b0son

This is true for all medicines. It didnt bother you with nurofen, or your antibiotics, why is it a problem now.

Perhaps because no one is being forced to take nurofen or antibiotics?
(And yes, if it’s take the vaccine or lose your livelihood, or face segregation that’s being forced)

This pandemic is making a lot of people ask questions, myself included.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by leesa

It is absolutely an antivax message.

Yeah that makes no sense, sweetheart. It was the MSNBC's youtube channel that I linked, they are a televised news station in the united states. More credible than Fox News, I might argue...
Would you believe even our own ABC has a youtube channel? They not only stream each state's daily covid conferences live each day but you can also go back and watch any that you missed.

OK. Stupid question then.

If reporting these types of stories and facts on Fox News makes it an anti-vax message, what does it make them if they were reported on our ABC or MSNBC?

Does it make it a public service announcement? A political stand maybe?

If it can be 110% directly unequivocally proven that the vaccine caused 3700-whatever deaths, why is anti-vax if reported by Fox News? Would it not be considered a coverup because it wasn't reported by MSNBC?

If MSNBC reported these 3700 deaths I'm sure you'd be saying its in the public interest and because Fox didn't they are in fact trying to cover up harmful side effects.

Can you not see the stupidity paradox here???

In an article written by the ABC, posted here the other day, it said:

Annastacia Palaszczuk retained power in the 2020 Queensland election despite The Courier Mail pushing for a change.

I read the Courier Mail, in addition to other papers of various owners, daily. And I can tell you this is a bald faced lie.

They wrote a profile about Frecklington, the then opposition leader, where they wrote how similar she looked to Chook Lady and quoted her as saying "I'm a down to earth mother. I buy my clothes at Target. Have no need for flashy clothes and makeup". For the next 2 week all they printed was how the Libs hired a doppelganger who put another woman down based on her dress sense and would look like trash at official events.

They played up her proposed hiring of 7000 health professionals that haven't eventuated yet and largely ignored she failed to produce a budget for the year or a means to pay for her promises. She purposely held it until after the election so no one could see how bad a financial hole the state was in.

In my local area they trotted out the same "Keith Pitt (Federal LNP member) wants to build a nuclear power plant in Burrum Heads" story as they do every state and election.

They spent months writing weekly stories about "where's Ted? What Ted done lately". Ted Sorensen being the then incumbent Lib member. When he decided to retire all they wrote about his replacement was he was a failed business man that organised a cash for access dinner during his campaign. The eventual winner, Labor tosser Adrian Tantari, hasn't been seen of or heard from in months. I just had to check to see if he's still alive. But not one word in the Courier Mail.

Point is, your beloved media outlets are no better. They lie, spread misinformation, run spin campaigns, write with a bias and to a narrative.

P.S. Don't focus on my examples. Focus in the hypocrisy. That's whats

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by leesa

Out of interest, how come you're happy to accept people dying of flu as the cost of business and they're just a figure you can live with but it's somehow different for people dying from the vaccine? Are vaccine deaths not also a small percentage? Why is that small percentage not okay but the small percentage of flu deaths okay? a death is a death, no? It just sounds to me like you're okay with accepting a percentage of deaths provided it's not one that you or your friends qualify for. If other people are caught up in that percentage then it's okay.

I didnt say any deaths were ok, no deaths are ok, all I was saying is that if they know that this vaccine adversely affects some people, then they would know what people are susceptible, not to have a does one does all attitude like they do.

Its funny if they reported all the Flu deaths of all the years before Covid every day to the public, you would think that the Flu was a pandemic pre Covid and Covid was no big deal, but they didn't, its only the Covid statistics every day and how many people are dying from Covid, its also funny that the deaths from the Flu have dropped since Covid, maybe its on holiday while Covid does its job?.

Im sure if they reported every single death around the world each day of whatever virus is going around Im sure there would be more than 1 pandemic in the public eye.

I know Covid is real, I know it makes people sick and I know it kills them, not disputing it, but the Government and Pharma companies know a lot more than they are letting on, most people say ok they are the experts so it must be ok, look at the statistics and information its all there , some people are not so sure and there are people who question the things that dont add up which there are plenty, the things that the Government and Pharma companies know but are not telling us , I am in the latter and dont trust what we are being fed at the moment.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by b0son

you mean other than the other people you unknowingly transmit it to? like your friend who cant be vaccinated because it will kill them?

THAT is why the government are pushing so hard for everyone to be vaccinated. because of the people who cant be vaccinated. the more of us that are, the more of a fighting chance they've got, because an indefinite lockdown (even lockdown lite) is a fool's errand.

What the other vaccinated people that work with him who can also catch it and transmit it are ok for him to work with?, I'm glad the Covid virus has a conscience and he wont get it from them

[b0son]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I don't take nurofen...isn't that the stuff that destroys your liver?

No, it's the stuff that treats my at times very debilitating headaches. God knows how many days off work I would take if not for it. Medicines have side effects. It's always been the case.

The last time I took antibiotics was because an illness got hold of me when I was in a country where hygiene wasn't great.

So if people washed their hands better, they'd never need antibiotics???

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

What the other vaccinated people that work with him who can also catch it and transmit it are ok for him to work with?, I'm glad the Covid virus has a conscience and he wont get it from them

They're less likely to pass it on. In the Hoxton Park superspreader event that gave Sydney its delta outbreak, the only people who didnt get covid were those that were vaccinated.

Delta is still out there, omicron doesnt yet make up 100% of cases. But I'm glad you can tell who has what strain by sight....

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by b0son

Medicines have side effects. It's always been the case.

I think that's the point. Some side effects are worse than others. With treatment drugs people can read the disclaimers and footnotes and make a choice. Headache vs side effects of nurofen, well you can weigh up the benefits and the risks, and make that choice. Put "possible heart defect" on a packet of nurofen and see how many people will still take it as frequently as they do.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

So from what I understand, if I'm fully Vaxxed, I can catch it , I can spread it, I can end up in hospital with it, and I can still die from it, but the symptoms might be "milder".

As you can with many many other common vaccines. Flu, measles, whooping cough, etc, etc. You could ask the same thing about the whooping cough vaccine when new mothers demand you have one before seeing their baby. Why bother having it if you can still infect the baby.

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I just want to know why a vaccine that is meant to protect me might or might not protect me

Because its a vaccine, not a cure.

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Sorry, it's not really what I thought a vaccine was?,

The question would be then "what did you think it was"?

To me a vaccine is a substance used to trigger a response in the human immune system to provide the best possible chance of resisting an attack from an unknown infection or disease. I'm pretty sure the dictionary will say the same thing.

Layman's terms, you are priming the body with the best possible teaching and techniques on how to fight if and when the fight comes, with the chance of winning being pretty high, but no assurances how beat up you might be when you walk off.

I have 2 uncles, one in his early 60's the other mid 70's, both have cardiac and respiratory problems, among other issues. I described the older one elsewhere as a scooter riding co-morbidity. Both had covid over the last 4 weeks. The older one was released from hospital in 5.5 days, the other 7 days. They both spent about 18 hours on oxygen and sounded like they had a massive chest infection on the phone. The next day it was gone, disappeared.

My early 30's cousin only realised he had covid because of a RAT test and follow up PCR. He's had nothing more than a sniffle.

Another late 30's good friend who is a nurse unit manager at a hospital has had covid 3 times now. Back at work within 6 to 8 days.

I think if a person expects any more from ANY vaccine than situations and recoveries like what I've listed above is either a fool or seriously misinformed.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

They have now asked me to see if I can get GP approval to have the AZ shot as a booster instead, and that will likely be the way I will go if it becomes a mandate.

You won't be able to. I tried with Dad given his "success" with AZ for his first 2 doses.

Word from the doctor was boosters provided can only be picked from the options approved by the state. Which I'm sure stems from Federal.

Choices are limited unless Novavax becomes approved/recommended.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by b0son

They're less likely to pass it on. In the Hoxton Park superspreader event that gave Sydney its delta outbreak, the only people who didnt get covid were those that were vaccinated.

Delta is still out there, omicron doesnt yet make up 100% of cases. But I'm glad you can tell who has what strain by sight....

See you are just confusing me more now, less likely to pass it on does not mean that they cant.

Its also known each day that a decent percentage of people hospitalised have had the injection and people who have had 1 and 2 injections are dying, they report this each day.

We also have some conflicting information, from what McGowan is telling us even with the vaccine you can still catch it, you can still spread it, you may still be hospitalised from it and you can still die from it, so getting your booster shots may assist with not getting it or if you do it will be milder which will give you a better chance of getting over it, but what he does not say is if you have underlying issues it is still dangerous even if you have had all your shots.

I dont think it makes any difference to what strain is floating about, we know it is deadly, its just the bull$#!t floating around that is muddying the water, you cant tell me that any of these vaccines are going to stop it when they even say you can still catch it, but less likely if you have had all your shots, so bottom line is you can still catch it even with the boosters.

Great Vaccine so far

I never got the Flu with the Flu vaccine

I'm not saying the vaccine is a snake oil, I think it works for some and does not for others, it also has some serious side effects for some people, I just don't think we are being told the full story and are kept in the dark regarding its effectiveness, it is being sold to us as a preventer from getting it if you have all the jabs on 1 hand, then told it will not completely protect you in the event you come in contact with it on the other.

[GTMOND]

Originally Posted by b0son

Because even if you get infected, your likelihood of getting hospitalised is substantially lower, around 15-fold.

So lets theorise for a moment. Nobody gets vaccinated and omicron hits. We have at least the same level of hospitalisations (but quite likely at least double given we know the vaccine has 30-40% effectiveness against infection in recently vaccinated/boostered people), but now there's no protection against serious illness. So perhaps 15x as many people die, or around 25,000 people so far.

And that's omicron. If we'd taken the same approach with delta, we get a similar number of deaths, but that was with major lockdowns. So lets scrap the lockdowns since this is 'just a flu', and you're probably looking at well north of 100k deaths.

I'm fully vaxxed, but if you think they force it on us for our benefit, I call that BS. Why can't someone who is unvaxxed come and sit beside me, if the vax does what it's meant too. The rules have no logic. Also if it was to stop us getting serious illness, why not have the same a[[roach with smoking as it has caused many deaths. Why not ban smokes.