Covid 19 -

[FairmontGS]

+1 for no legs up for Virgin - they've lost hundreds of millions in the good times and carry about $6b in accumulated debt. Let them go to the wall.

I'd support Singapore and/or Air New Zealand being given domestic route rights and they can soak up most of Virgin's infrastructure and staff much like Virgin did with Ansett. Australia can only support 1.5 airlines at best.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

+1 for no legs up for Virgin - they've lost hundreds of millions in the good times and carry about $6b in accumulated debt. Let them go to the wall.

I'd support Singapore and/or Air New Zealand being given domestic route rights and they can soak up most of Virgin's infrastructure and staff much like Virgin did with Ansett. Australia can only support 1.5 airlines at best.

So Qantas & Jetstar - Oh wait...

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Are there data sets of flu and pneumonia deaths available?

Edit..found data from CDC. Look at weeks 10 through to 15, a drastic reduction in flu cases. Must be coincidental the Covid-19 cases are going the other direction.

https://ibb.co/m5CXHch

That was stated on a podcast I listen to saying Flu and Pneumonia deaths had dropped through the floor and overall deaths in the US were actually down 10-15 percent compared to the average, as detailed in the video with the doctor from Minnesota the criteria to be a Covid death are quite broad, I assume for efficiency in zones like NY but also likely leading to many false positives, like the over 3000 added to the count a day or two ago.

[98TLS]

Wouldnt be to concerned about the US death rate going down Trump will have it going back up soon enough.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Bongo Boy

So Qantas & Jetstar - Oh wait...

Mmmm. FF points on both... Gets my vote

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I guess it puts us bit of a quandry because the one thing we certainly do not need is a qantas monopoly.Airfares away from the main inter capital cities are expensive now,imagine what could happen with a monopoly.$300 Melb Syd. $1200 Perth Melb etc Maybe $2500 Melb Darwin.Launceston Melb $300 who knows.

Virgin will survive.. There's enough vultures circling to ensure that..

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...17-p54kw6.html

https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0200417-p54kpr

[Syndrome]

The new post COVID-19 mantra

Use up
Wear out
Make do
Or do without

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

+1 for no legs up for Virgin - they've lost hundreds of millions in the good times and carry about $6b in accumulated debt. Let them go to the wall.

I'd support Singapore and/or Air New Zealand being given domestic route rights and they can soak up most of Virgin's infrastructure and staff much like Virgin did with Ansett. Australia can only support 1.5 airlines at best.

Actual losses or just 'on paper' to avoid paying Pappa ATO?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Actual losses or just 'on paper' to avoid paying Pappa ATO?

Real losses, as in money. Gone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Citroënbender]

If there is a mandate on the tracking app, will there also be an AFF “Faraday Bag” fundraiser?

[Citroënbender]

A friend sent through some Ukrainian health awareness adverts using classic artworks. Maybe they’re all over Faceache already, if so it’s why I’ve not seen them prior.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Qantas won't operate under a monopoly. The rules have changed since the early 2000's for airline companies. Another player will step up to the mark and fill it's place.

I agree neither airline should receive any government subsidies.

So when the government gave billions in subsidies to Holden and Ford, also foreign owned, was that okay?

The foreign owned airlines, also employ thousands of Australians as well.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They can't do it without cause under the current system unless you're on the police ****list - ie Adrian Bailey and tracking him through Citylink tolls and the phone tracking of Jill Meagher's husband when he was a suspect.

Things like this:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...20-p53m0e.html

and Australian police using Clearview AI:

https://theconversation.com/australi...ability-132667

Personally I'm against the idea of the COVID-19 tracking apps, if it became mandatory I'd leave my phone(s) at home or just get rid of both of them.

I accidentally smashed my phone at the start of 2015, I decided not to replace it, the only way to contact me was through AFF or knock on my door

I ended up replacing it with two when I started my own business but now I'm working for the man, I don't 'need' phones anymore.

That's it, they have ways if they need to. Why would anyone serve it to them on a platter

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So when the government gave billions in subsidies to Holden and Ford, also foreign owned, was that okay?

The foreign owned airlines, also employ thousands of Australians as well.

Where did I state the bail outs to Fraud and Government Motors was acceptable? I haven’t. GM in particular should be forced to pay back the billion odd in subsidies it received from you and me via out taxes.

Virgin’s owners need to reach into their pockets if they want to survive. And while that SJW Joyce is at the helm Qantas they shouldn’t receive a cent either.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So when the government gave billions in subsidies to Holden and Ford, also foreign owned, was that okay?

The foreign owned airlines, also employ thousands of Australians as well.

Not to justify an overseas company receiving a tax payer bailout. But another airline will take Virgins place, retaining those jobs. Providing the demand returns. That was never going to happen with the car makers. Nearly all of those jobs have gone.

I have around $2500 in flights through Qantas for this month and May, and another $3k to the USA in November.
The US ones still stand, Qantas sneakily tried to put my April and May flights into credit, despite me being allowed full refunds. Refund will take up to 6 weeks.
I'd hate to see how much money they're bleeding.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by smoo

Not to justify an overseas company receiving a tax payer bailout. But another airline will take Virgins place, retaining those jobs.

Yes, I heard on the news that China is looking to buy Virgin.

More Chinese ownership of not only Australian assets but also foreign owned.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Where did I state the bail outs to Fraud and Government Motors was acceptable? I haven’t. GM in particular should be forced to pay back the billion odd in subsidies it received from you and me via out taxes.

So if they were made to pay back the subsidies, should the govt hand back all the revenue they received through these companies? I think I know who would be better off, hence why subsidies were given. The govt certainly didn't lose out.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by prydey

So if they were made to pay back the subsidies, should the govt hand back all the revenue they received through these companies? I think I know who would be better off, hence why subsidies were given. The govt certainly didn't lose out.

What revenue is the government to hand back? Taxation revenue these companies should have paid in the first place? We certainly do know who was better off, GM and Ford, definitely not the tax payer.

[Citroënbender]

Didn’t Mitsubishi get a fat hand-up not long before they bailed, too?

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Yes, I heard on the news that China is looking to buy Virgin.

More Chinese ownership of not only Australian assets but also foreign owned.

Well I don't know where the "news" got its information from but:

"Etihad Airways (20.94%) Singapore Airlines (20.09%) Nanshan Group (19.98%) HNA Group (19.82%) Virgin Group (10.42%)"

that totals 90.26%. (source Forbes go here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhor.../#7ad3363f3ffc)

HNA is a Chinese conglomerate and Nanshan also a privately owned Chinese conglomerate.

I guess the reason Virgin is listed on the ASX is the remaining 9.74% is owned by Australian interests.

So basically already overseas owned and so the assets are not Australian, and many of the aircraft may be leased or be on time payment arrangements with Boeing (I do not think they have any other manufacturer's aircraft), there's a happy arrangement at the moment. SFAIK Virgin does not own any Real Estate in Australia but leases airport space at the various terminals. I'm happy to be corrected on this.

And so, back to the Pandemic

Cheers

[Franco Cozzo]

I'd rather than handing out cash that they made registration free for the first 3 years, no FBT and no GST on purchase of new Australian manufactured vehicles, subsidise that way through tax breaks and incentives for buyers rather than hand out bazillions of spondoolies to the manufacturers.

Maybe more people would have been buying Australian cars with these discounts.

[AlanD]

On the question of bailouts of foreign owned businesses operating in Australia who ask for Government assistance in times of trouble.

I have been heard to say, but not here, that any use of Taxpayer funds for this purpose should only be considered if the company concerned is willing to provide the government with a quantity of the comapney's shares to the value of the level of funding being asked for.

If they went to the share-holders or the market for a capital injection they would have to do that.

Then, if the company chose to fold its tent in this country, the government could sell the shares and recoup some of the capital provided. Provided of course that the company shares were still viable overseas. If the company was bankrupt then the taxpayer loses, but this would be no different to what has happened with many of the assistance grants that have been provided in the past.

BTW the return to Govco from such companies activities is mostly from us, the taxpayer, in the various taxes and charges levied by Govco on the products being sold here.

And again: back to the pandemic

Cheers

Cheers

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Are the Government actually on top of this or are they riding on our (relatively) low population density and claiming this as a win?

I think not.

Canada has an area about 1.3 times ours and a population about 1.5 times ours

Their major population areas are centred around the bit of Ontario bordering Lake Erie and the northern border of Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence seaway - roughly equivalent to the Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane corridor.

Currently they have 32,000+ confirmed cases and 1350+ deaths. (Source Johns-Hopkins)

I think we are doing pretty well considering the effect of the Diamond Princesss on our death count.

I believe we could have gotten to the current place quicker but only with far more stringent lockdown measures, a quite large effect on the economy (whether bigger than what is happening currently might be debatable) and urinating off our trading partners with absolute rejection of the entry of foreign nationals for the duration and perhaps beyond.

Is 67 deaths (currently) acceptable? Absolutely not, but I can't see any reasonable alternative to what is currently being done.

At least we have not gotten to the stage that our health care systems have gone beyond capacity, but the staff (cheers to them) must be getting shell shocked by now.

I don't plan on doing anything that might make the situation worse. And since that's the plan I don't need to go looking for flaws/inconsistencies in the lockdown rules.

Cheers

[CoupeKing]

Bye bye


https://pjmedia.com/trending/huge-th...r-coronavirus/

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Bye bye


https://pjmedia.com/trending/huge-th...r-coronavirus/

PJ Media must be on the ball as I can't find that story on any other media.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

PJ Media must be on the ball as I can't find that story on any other media.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ink-china-ties

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Bye bye


https://pjmedia.com/trending/huge-th...r-coronavirus/

Japan is subsidising its own business to pull out of China too

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-out-of-china

Good to see everyone hurting them where it hurts the most - their hip pocket.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ink-china-ties

LOL, PJ media says that Boris Johnson is dropping Huawei, whilst Bloomberg says that the idea is under threat.

Journalistic license perhaps

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

LOL, PJ media says that Boris Johnson is dropping Huawei, whilst Bloomberg says that the idea is under threat.

Journalistic license perhaps

Everything the media says regardless of who it is should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyone see ABC's end of the road story on just now about Holden leaving Australia? They had a panel with a Holden enthusiast, a car journalist, Mark Skaife and some woman from Deloitte Access Economics who self admitted she knows nothing about cars, has never owned a Holden and sees cars as things you should spend the least amount of money on and try not to drive it as much as possible:

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/holden...nd-of-the-road

Lets see how it evolves, it would be a great idea to cut out China from everything future infrastructure.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So when the government gave billions in subsidies to Holden and Ford, also foreign owned, was that okay?

The foreign owned airlines, also employ thousands of Australians as well.

Did Ford get a bailout? I thought it was only Holden...