Covid 19 -

[hackney]

Going to ‘open’ a can of worms here!Masks should be mandated again, cases are rising expediently.I have had 4 shots of the vax & will continue to keep getting them.Science does not lie.In my mind it is just not worth the risk of getting this thing.Our daughter caught it, she had two shots, was as crook as a dog,felt like she had been run over by a bus.If she had not been vaxxed, she would have undoubtedly been in ICU & would have been in a critical state.Some people get it & hardly have any symptoms, everyone IS different in how their body reacts.But, in saying all this, is it worth the risk?What the Vaccine does is give you a level of immunity & keep you out of ICU.These ‘anti vaxxers’ are just a brain dead lot.I have absolutely no sympathy for them if they catch it & are in a critical condition.You want to play ‘Russian roulette’ go right ahead!

[KobiXR6T]

Originally Posted by hackney

Going to ‘open’ a can of worms here!Masks should be mandated again, cases are rising expediently.I have had 4 shots of the vax & will continue to keep getting them.Science does not lie.In my mind it is just not worth the risk of getting this thing.Our daughter caught it, she had two shots, was as crook as a dog,felt like she had been run over by a bus.If she had not been vaxxed, she would have undoubtedly been in ICU & would have been in a critical state.Some people get it & hardly have any symptoms, everyone IS different in how their body reacts.But, in saying all this, is it worth the risk?What the Vaccine does is give you a level of immunity & keep you out of ICU.These ‘anti vaxxers’ are just a brain dead lot.I have absolutely no sympathy for them if they catch it & are in a critical condition.You want to play ‘Russian roulette’ go right ahead!

This statement shows how much you know about science, and is contridicted in your very next sentence.

The only way you could undoubtedly know how she would have reacted without being unvaccinated would be for her specifically to catch it without being vaccinated.

There is a possibility it may have been better, but you have 100% convinced yourself it would be worse.

And where is the data that supports this one asks? Who would know, because aiming for 100% vaccination rates removes any control group from the equation.

I'm not asking for vaccines to be unavailable. I'm not suggesting that they don't help reduce severity in some cases. I'd just like to see someone real weight and acknowledgement to the adverse effects that some people experience from them, and some more data around who the demographic is who represent both the unvaccinated and vaccinated who end up hospitalised and in ICU.

Science shouldn't cherry pick or omit data in order to convince people. Good science should be transparent and freely available, and speak for itself..



We might be 2 years in, but there's certainly a lot of questions that still remain to be answered, and labelling anyone who dares ask those questions with petty name calling goes to show the integrity or lack of that many people have.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

This statement shows how much you know about science, and is contridicted in your very next sentence.

The only way you could undoubtedly know how she would have reacted without being unvaccinated would be for her specifically to catch it without being vaccinated.

There is a possibility it may have been better, but you have 100% convinced yourself it would be worse.

And where is the data that supports this one asks? Who would know, because aiming for 100% vaccination rates removes any control group from the equation.

I'm not asking for vaccines to be unavailable. I'm not suggesting that they don't help reduce severity in some cases. I'd just like to see someone real weight and acknowledgement to the adverse effects that some people experience from them, and some more data around who the demographic is who represent both the unvaccinated and vaccinated who end up hospitalised and in ICU.

Science shouldn't cherry pick or omit data in order to convince people. Good science should be transparent and freely available, and speak for itself..

image

We might be 2 years in, but there's certainly a lot of questions that still remain to be answered, and labelling anyone who dares ask those questions with petty name calling goes to show the integrity or lack of that many people have.

The thing is,Covid is a very dangerous virus(that is just fact).Couple of facts, that came to light last year in the US,Arkansas has a very low uptake rate of the vaccine, but the highest intake of unvaccinated people in ICU,a lot pleading for the vaccine,to late for that.Florida is was also in the same situation.I do not apologise for my statement,& stand by it.Quite a few of our family have had it,is not pleasant @ all.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Never had a flu shot in my life, why would I mess with my immune system like that?

I have not had as much as a cold or sniffle in the past five years.

It makes no sense to me to be injecting stuff into my body for a simple flu.

Well good on you if you one of the lucky ones who has excellent health but you should spare a thought for those who do not.
Enough said with hearing rubbish from your lips.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

So anyone that does not agree with your exact point of view is a troll?.

No, only those who continually post rubbish that has no foundation in fact. If the cap fits ...

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Since you like statistics consider this:

The average age of Covid death in Australia is the same as average life expectancy.

Coincidence?

No, another case of playing with figures. The average life expectancy in Australia is 82.9 whereas the median age of COVID deaths is ~83 and that is not the same thing.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Never claimed to know anything, that is why I asked the question.

Simply saying 'science has proven', does not make it so. How do we actually know without having a control group of equal size?

The whole scientific model is based on asking questions, however when people ask questions in relation to covid or vaccines they are immediately labeled. Which you have proven above.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

We might be 2 years in, but there's certainly a lot of questions that still remain to be answered, and labelling anyone who dares ask those questions with petty name calling goes to show the integrity or lack of that many people have.

I think the issue here, XB and Kobi, is not so much that you're asking the questions, more so that the questions you are asking have all been asked before in this thread, most of them multiple times. Russ (and others) has spent many, many hours on here addressing these over the last few years and has provided sound, evidenced based studies that back up his (their) views. Hence this response:

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yawn ......have you been in a cave for the last 2 years when all this rubbish went on for ever it's like the endless replay of an annoying song

I wouldn't take the responses as a personal attack. More so a frustration from those of us who have been invested in this thread since covid first became an issue and was discussed on this forum.

I appreciate that it is a VERY long thread (indicating the level of discussion we've had from both sides of the vaccination viewpoint), but it may pay for you to peruse past discussion in here to see how those questions have been answered before you post essentially the same thing in here again.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Honest Gaza

But the Flu shot normally isn't mandatory....that's the difference.

I've had more COVID shots in the last couple of Years than I've had Flu Shots in a lifetime.

In my age group, if one had taken every shot when eligible, it would be 4 shots in under a year. And going by the results coming out of Israel, whilst its effective, the 4th wanes quickly, so you are looking at a 5th pretty soon I'm guessing.

There was some industry "expert" on ABC radio just 30 mins ago, saying that people need to weigh up the risk of side effects to the benefits of the 4th...and beyond. Benefits are getting shorter with every booster, but the risks of side effects stays the same.

Originally Posted by hackney

Going to ‘open’ a can of worms here!Masks should be mandated again, cases are rising expediently.

From this morning's news "Federal Health Minister Mark Butler has declared Australia has “moved beyond” the era of broad mask mandates and lockdowns."

Reckon there should be more education rather than just talking about mask mandates. I think more education and promoting that, even if you are feeling just a tad unwell, and not yet tested positive, put on a mask for the sake of others. They have been doing that in other parts of the world for decades. Its not that hard.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by hackney

Science does not lie

But scientists have the ability to.

[russellw]

Australia / New Zealand
NSW records 12,768 cases for a 10-day average growth rate of 1.0507 (1.0807) and the actual line remains below the predictive trend line.



VIC records 9,676 cases for a 10 day average growth of 1.0405 (1.0693) while the actual line remains above the predictive trend.



Here is the predictive trend graph for four States based on cases since Omicron was identified which, for our purposes, will be taken as December 1st. NSW passes 3,000 deaths in 2022.



New Zealand data goes back to January 15th and the actual line is back below the predictive trend line.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

In my age group, if one had taken every shot when eligible, it would be 4 shots in under a year. And going by the results coming out of Israel, whilst its effective, the 4th wanes quickly, so you are looking at a 5th pretty soon I'm guessing.

There was some industry "expert" on ABC radio just 30 mins ago, saying that people need to weigh up the risk of side effects to the benefits of the 4th...and beyond. Benefits are getting shorter with every booster, but the risks of side effects stays the same.



From this morning's news "Federal Health Minister Mark Butler has declared Australia has “moved beyond” the era of broad mask mandates and lockdowns."

Reckon there should be more education rather than just talking about mask mandates. I think more education and promoting that, even if you are feeling just a tad unwell, and not yet tested positive, put on a mask for the sake of others. They have been doing that in other parts of the world for decades. Its not that hard.

Perhaps so,but wearing masks prevents it.If you cast your mind back when we into Covid, the flu was all but wiped out, due to people having to wear masks,this year though it is rampant.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

There was some industry "expert" on ABC radio just 30 mins ago, saying that people need to weigh up the risk of side effects to the benefits of the 4th...and beyond. Benefits are getting shorter with every booster, but the risks of side effects stays the same.

Have you ever had an operation? I had my Achilles fixed, had to sign off that I could die on the table. We have a very open and informative medical industry. They tell you about every tiny risk. The continual carry on that we would have been better off without a vaccine, or stopping after the second is mind numbing. If we should stop, I am sure the experts will tell us we should.

EVERYONE is aware that there can be side effects.

This expert brought up nothing new.

Vaccination should not be changed because there are two people who eat only organic food and can bench press x pounds. They are awesome, and are better placed to beat an infection, absolutely no doubt. I am sure they will be ok without a vaccine. But only because there are two of them and they are fit and healthy, which mean the stats are in their favour. If there was a couple of thousand of them, one could very well avoidably succumb.

It is all a numbers game.

[KobiXR6T]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Have you ever had an operation? I had my Achilles fixed, had to sign off that I could die on the table. We have a very open and informative medical industry. They tell you about every tiny risk. The continual carry on that we would have been better off without a vaccine, or stopping after the second is mind numbing. If we should stop, I am sure the experts will tell us we should.

EVERYONE is aware that there can be side effects.

This expert brought up nothing new.

Vaccination should not be changed because there are two people who eat only organic food and can bench press x pounds. They are awesome, and are better placed to beat an infection, absolutely no doubt. I am sure they will be ok without a vaccine. But only because there are two of them and they are fit and healthy, which mean the stats are in their favour. If there was a couple of thousand of them, one could very well avoidably succumb.

It is all a numbers game.

Life is inherently risky and dangerous. Medical intervention can be terminal, as can doing nothing..

I think we can both agree with that.

You are working off the assumption that some people don't want a vaccine available, or the medical advice to go with it. My personal opinion is that they should be available freely to anyone who wishes to participate. The medical advice should be sound and come from professionals, to patients.

When you make the move from advice to orders, and from information to advertisement.. from choice to coercion. Well that is where the waters get muddied.

My perspective from the fence is that there are people on both sides trying to push their beliefs on others.. Some of which acting from a place of concern, some from a place of fear.. but regardless, ultimately the choice should be up to the individual without having to choose between unemployment or participation.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It is all a numbers game.

Yep. 1 and 2 were about protecting yourself as well as the rest of the population. Given vax requirements were only recently removed for all incoming travellers, it would suggest there is sufficient vaccination within the population, and that 3 and 4+ is very much about protecting yourself.

So from here on, its each to their own on re boosters. There should be little angst against opinions either way. People will need to live (or die) by their decisions, as we do everyday.

Originally Posted by hackney

Perhaps so,but wearing masks prevents it.If you cast your mind back when we into Covid, the flu was all but wiped out, due to people having to wear masks,this year though it is rampant.

Yes I do remember. Yes I agree, masks stop the spread. It doesn't stop the wearer from receiving it though?. Look up all the studies on mask wearing, its all about limiting particles escaping through your mouth and nose, not about stopping particles from entering your body, which can be through other parts of your body such as your eyes etc.

Rampant - New cases are on an upward trajectory yes, but 7 day average is still lower than that at the start of April and mid May. Deaths, we have been on an upward trend since March. That's the current stats, but yes, it could take off.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT July 7th 2022.

43,130 new cases for Australia and 61 deaths so the CMR is 0.122% (-).

NZ reported 28,538 cases and 27 deaths over 2 days for a CMR of 0.0111% (ê).

The UK didn’t report for a CMR of 0.790% (-).

152,348 new cases in the USA yesterday and 569 deaths sees CMR at 1.161 (ê).

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 558M;
USA passes 90M cases;

No countries recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Japan moves above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and Ghana drops below.

[ute83]

My experience over the last nine months or so...
One of my customers died after receiving his second, a family member in his twenties has had vertigo since the second jab and hasn't worked since, another family member is having heart problems after her third and doctor offered her a forth while seeing him about chest pain.
Another young woman that I know cannot play sport after her shots. the son of a friend has had seizures after his two. Another is having leg pains, he is in his twenties. I know of three SADS, one a friend of my daughter all around forty. A nephews gf died of asthma, I believe she was in her late twenties. I could go on. Look around people this can't just be happening around my circle.

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Never had a flu shot in my life, why would I mess with my immune system like that?

I have not had as much as a cold or sniffle in the past five years.

It makes no sense to me to be injecting stuff into my body for a simple flu.

Neither have i for 30 something years...

So a month ago i was actually in the ICU with Pneumonia and lost 6kg while in there !!

I have had the 2 covid shots mandate required for my place of work plus a booster as a lot of people around me were falling sick and then the flu shot that i dont remember ever having had previously!

Am i getting sick because of the shots , or are people burying their head in the sand about how serious this has become and i am actually very lucky i am still alive ??

Never mind ... i just realised whom i actually responded to was

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yawn ......have you been in a cave for the last 2 years when all this rubbish went on for ever it's like the endless replay of an annoying song, you anti-vaxers are worse than born again Christians

Oi.. nothing wrong with Born again Christians.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I think the issue here, XB and Kobi, is not so much that you're asking the questions, more so that the questions you are asking have all been asked before in this thread, most of them multiple times.

I was going to say the same thing. When someone opens the conversation with a particular line, statement, set of words or tone you just do "here we go again".

Not saying it always will happen, but for me personally it moves into the person trying to educate me about things they saw on a video narrated by a person in dark glasses speaking in whispers and ending with that person calling me a moron because I've been suckered in by a fairytale. Heard it once and not interested in going into it.

I said previously we weren't prepared or expecting the extreme views and beliefs of people.

For me, I'm happy to go get my jabs and move on with life. I did that. I would never jump down the throat of someone with opposing viewpoints in the same way an anti-vaxer jumps down my throat for the way I handled myself. I respect their choice in what they do and what they choose to believe, but they don't respect mine. They offensively trample all over it. But thats just my experience.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

The only way you could undoubtedly know how she would have reacted without being unvaccinated would be for her specifically to catch it without being vaccinated.

There is a possibility it may have been better, but you have 100% convinced yourself it would be worse.

It's simply because historically it has been proven that taking vaccines in general decreases or nullifies the change of an infection or virus taking hold or getting serious.

I get the flu shot every year. Every couple of years I come down with a bit of a run down feeling and sniffles that disappears the next or following day. I have no idea what it is, but it could have been the flu and the flu shot did its job for that year.

I believe that being vaccinated is the best possible thing for me and when something happens it provides the best possible protection. I have to believe the same of the coivid vaccine. But I'm left to wonder why people who hold the same original viewpoint as me threw it all out the window with the covid vaccine.

The same people who demand we all take whooping cough vaccines before seeing their new baby but refuse to let vaccinated people see their baby incase they give the kid cooties.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

I'd just like to see someone real weight and acknowledgement to the adverse effects that some people experience from them

What if I said that vaccines aren't responsible for the adverse reactions people received?

But they are caused by the immune response to the introduction of the covid spike protein. Which is actually the same reaction a person may experience during and post a covid infection.

If a person has the exact same reaction, or list of reactions, while or after being infected with covid as what they might receive after being vaccinated, then to me they wouldn't be adverse reactions to the vaccine but simply a consequence of the bodies immune response to the same protein being introduced.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...8b04a671a0f75b

Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...n-vaccination/

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showpo...ostcount=19038

I'm starting to believe there is merit in the idea that vaccine side effects aren't attributable to the vaccine itself, just the immune response to the covid protein.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

The only way you could undoubtedly know how she would have reacted without being unvaccinated would be for her specifically to catch it without being vaccinated.

The same could be said for someone who suffered a neurological problem post vaccination. How could you undoubtedly know this was caused by the vaccine when it could be caused by a covid infection itself. The only way to know would be for the same person to catch covid unvaccinated.

I'd love to see some more research into the idea.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

My personal opinion is that they should be available freely to anyone who wishes to participate. The medical advice should be sound and come from professionals, to patients.

When you make the move from advice to orders, and from information to advertisement.. from choice to coercion. Well that is where the waters get muddied.

I absolutely believe that vaccines should be a choice. Except....

Where the social impact of not doing it would have resulted in a complete breakdown of the medical system. That would have happened, we are struggling now, imagine what a full wave with no vaccination would have been like?

We could not rely of the population doing things for the greater good, we are all too selfish. People were refused hospital and sent home to die in first world countries, we were lucky.

Now that we should have had time for vaccination and Governments should have prepared the healthcare system, it should all be rolled back to voluntary.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by ute83

My experience over the last nine months or so...
One of my customers died after receiving his second, a family member in his twenties has had vertigo since the second jab and hasn't worked since, another family member is having heart problems after her third and doctor offered her a forth while seeing him about chest pain.
Another young woman that I know cannot play sport after her shots. the son of a friend has had seizures after his two. Another is having leg pains, he is in his twenties. I know of three SADS, one a friend of my daughter all around forty. A nephews gf died of asthma, I believe she was in her late twenties. I could go on. Look around people this can't just be happening around my circle.

Interesting, we are an essential service, 500 staff and 1800 contractors. About 30 gave up their jobs. Over 1700 individuals and we had a few (just over 100) people take the next day off, and that is it.

[KobiXR6T]

Originally Posted by arm79

I'd love to see some more research

This, this and this. There are still a load of studies being undertaken and I'm sure with time we will certainly learn a lot more about what we've done well, and what we could have done better.

What do you say to ute83 above in response to his personal data. I know we can't make causal links between those illnesses and vaccines/covid.

I have also considered your theory regarding the spike protein being the cause. It certainly is very possible, but then also opens one up to the following: do I throw myself into the firing line by injecting myself with it, or do I try to ensure I have no exposure to the virus. One is certainty, the other option has high chances of failure too. I'd love to see more studies done on this.

In our small workgroup of around 12 people. Ones daughter has experienced miscarriage. One has had Ophthalmic side effects. One has had myocarditis. One has had bouts of vertigo. Two are dealing with blood pressure/heart rate concerns. Anothers husband is suffering with autoimmune illnesses (still being investigated). And my own mother came down with Bells palsy in the days following vaccination.

Of all above, only one has been proven to be causal.. Of all these people I've know for 10+ years it seems very interesting that all of this has happened closely following a certain medical treatment.

More research is definitely required.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by zilo

Don't think anyone is interested in this anymore Russell.
Thanks for all your efforts to date.

You were saying?

[arm79]

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

This, this and this. There are still a load of studies being undertaken and I'm sure with time we will certainly learn a lot more about what we've done well, and what we could have done better.

I'd love to see more research, but ultimately I don't think it will matter in the end. Covid and the vaccines is such a divisive subject and will be for years to come I think. Many people have already made up their mind and spending billions on research and reports to answer todays questions years down the track won't do much.

When the FDA releases the Pfizer report, no one is going to read all 450,000 pages. Very few people will understand its contents. But random and uneducated people will cherry pick information to suit their bias and report and share that information.

Person or media company A print information from pages 5 to 9 and say "See, I fu*ken told ya. All lies and BS. Murderers". Person or media company B will read pages 5 to 12 and report back "yeah, but what about this? You need to consider that too". We won't be in any better position than we are now.

The research and findings might come out and answer everything perfectly wrapped in a nice bow and I can see my friendly anti-vax friend saying "Thats all BS, they were bought and paid for".

Is it wrong to feel so disillusioned? I know I shouldn't be, but it just seems to be a byproduct of modern times sometimes.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

What do you say to ute83 above in response to his personal data. I know we can't make causal links between those illnesses and vaccines/covid.

It's always interesting answering questions like this in a group of people you don't know and don't know how they will react. So hopefully its taken on general face value and not considered personally insulting or cruel.

I think there is a hypersensitivity to our surroundings following covid that there was never there before. And in some cases a selfishness I don't think there was there before (for this one I refer you back to things I wrote previously about border closures, babies, etc, etc).

Someone else wrote here how they were pi$$ed off by a coworker who had the sniffles while standing near to them. Couple of years back no one would have given a second thought.

This stupid chest infection that I have that won't go away just makes me cough. I can't walk through the shopping centre or supermarket without someone looking at my like I had the plague. Same in the doctors waiting room, where once a coughing patient was par for course, now you get looked at like your dirt.

I think some of this sensitivity gets carried over to the scenarios surrounding deaths, or SADS as it seems to be called now, and/or conditions as well.

In my lifetime I've experienced the death of multiple people within short spaces of time. Back then it was an unfortunate coincidence. If you asked Mum, it was always "because these things come in threes". Same goes for conditions. Some of the conditions people suffer post vaccination can also be caused by other infections or they just happen.

So I have to consider that what was once bad or unfortunate, these days has to be given a reason. Because everything has to have a reason these days. And the prevailing reason is vaccines.

That said, I don't doubt that some of these deaths and conditions post vaccination aren't related to the vaccine. But as I said I'm questioning whether these incidents should be called adverse reactions or the blame put on the vaccines considering they are symptoms of having covid itself.

One of the other questions I'd love to know the answer to is do Australian's feel stupid (I cant think of another word) for railroading the AZ vaccine as they did. A vaccine that was arguably well tested and very capable that had none of the potential side effects of the Pfizer.

Australian's got what they wanted when the government pivoted from AZ to Pfizer. What do they make of the choice they forced?

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

do I throw myself into the firing line by injecting myself with it, or do I try to ensure I have no exposure to the virus. One is certainty, the other option has high chances of failure too. I'd love to see more studies done on this.

That one is down to personal choice. Being a car forum the analogy would be "do I put urethane diff bushes in my car".

I suppose personally if given the choice of suffering a short minor case of myocarditis from a vaccine compared to a serious one or death following a covid infection, I know I'd be choosing the vaccine. It being an informed choice.

But I suppose that was one thing that was lacking early on in the vaccine program, the information to make an informed choice. Which would have been a catch-22 if we had to live like many people did for the past 2 years before the information became available to make an informed choice.

Originally Posted by KobiXR6T

In our small workgroup of around 12 people. Ones daughter has experienced miscarriage. One has had Ophthalmic side effects. One has had myocarditis. One has had bouts of vertigo. Two are dealing with blood pressure/heart rate concerns. Anothers husband is suffering with autoimmune illnesses (still being investigated). And my own mother came down with Bells palsy in the days following vaccination.

That is one side of things that I have always found confounding. Your and ute83's experience differ massively from mine. In my group of friends, colleagues or Dad's customers we have not heard of one person having any sort of ill effects post vaccination. And my group isn't small and made up of rather vocal and open people.

The sister of our anti-vax friend passed away suddenly and unexpectedly a couple of weeks back. This was months past her booster. Our friend would unilaterally and despicably label any person like this as a SADS victim. But anyone dare mention SADS around her in relation to her sister and expect a b*tch slap.

But I'm sad and sorry to hear that those things happened. However it happens or whatever caused it, its not fair for people to have to experience that.

[Metdevil]

I swear that reading through this thread, I witness the entire library of logical fallacies on a daily basis...

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Have you ever had an operation? I had my Achilles fixed, had to sign off that I could die on the table.

So, you had a problem, and in order to fix it and walk properly again you were willing to take that small risk. Thousands do that daily and the vast majority are corrected.

I don't get the flu ( not recently ), nor do I get flu shots so why would I risk my life for a covid vaccine? To make people like you feel better about themselves? Ain't gonna happen.

Brains have been washed more than hands.

[KobiXR6T]

Originally Posted by arm79

Arm79

Thanks for being able to put your thoughts into words without it becoming a name calling contest.. IMO that may possibly be one of the biggest things I've learnt over the last couple years. Many people purely lack the ability to put emotion aside and process information and be confident in their own outcomes.

I don't think the research is needed to change peoples minds. I think there are a lot of lessons to be learnt, both in how society reacts, and how governments govern. It was always going to be a catch 22 (doomed if you do, doomed if you don't).. but I think there certainly was a bit of over-reach and a lack of transparency. Only time will tell where we head next.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

I swear that reading through this thread, I witness the entire library of logical fallacies on a daily basis...

Ad hominem seems to be a bit of a favourite amongst some.

[russellw]

Australia / New Zealand
NSW records 11,434 cases for a 10-day average growth rate of 1.0119 (1.0507) and the actual line remains below the predictive trend line.



VIC records 8,776 cases for a 10 day average growth of 0.9923 (1.0405) while the actual line drops below the predictive trend.



Here is the predictive trend graph for four States based on cases since Omicron was identified which, for our purposes, will be taken as December 1st. Tasmania passes 200,000 cases and NSW passes 3,000 deaths in 2022.



New Zealand data goes back to January 15th and the actual line is back below the predictive trend line.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

I heard on the news last night that hospitalisations in Victoria due to covid have increased by 33% in the last week alone.

No wonder there's a bit more focus on covid 19: in the media, in governments, in the general public and on here.