Ford Delivers Outstanding Value with FG Falcon MkII

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not many people know that FoA was in the running for supplying the V6 Duratecs
but the collapse of the Magnesium plant project in Central Queensland robbed them of their
supply base and as such the alternative supplier put their cost avove Nth America.

What could have been....

That would have required a big dollar spend to modernise the engine plant and even then it wouldn't be able to compete with sheer economy of scale the US plant has.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That would have required a big dollar spend to modernise the engine plant and even then it wouldn't be able to compete with sheer economy of scale the US plant has.

This was during the early AU days, when the Australian dollar bought about 60¢ US.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That would have required a big dollar spend to modernise the engine plant.

Precisely what was planned.....

and even then it wouldn't be able to compete with sheer economy of scale the US plant has.

The cost of our raw materials like Aluminium and Magnesium would have put the bid over the top...

The tender was to for supplying ALL the V6s to the USA....

[BAFrod]

Question: (if anybody knows) Will the fg2 g6 lower grille fit the XR grille? I don't like all the black plastic, and the chrome surround on the g6 would sit nicely next to the xr6t's chrome foggies...

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Whoever said diesels were dirty is wrong. These days with particulate filters they are better than petrol.

If they are fitted with a particulate filter, that may be. Neither the Territory or Ranger (in Australia) has a particulate filter - only meet Euro Stage 4 Emissions - no need for particulate filter.

[Polyal]

Who gives a bugger about a filter though. I know many, myself included, who want a diesel wagon and its euro or nothing, save for the 300C, throw the requirement of a manual in there and your options are slim.

Im not saying thats a market Ford should be pushing for, Im just not wanting a SUV or 4x4 at the minute, but TDi across the range would rock and I feel that its not there for political reasons...if you go through the effort of engineering it for the RWD Tez the its not going to take alot (mainly tweeking) to get it into a Falcon.

Still there are awesome choices coming up and it seems Ford is playing the field to see what will work or what the market wants, but the market cannot buy something that is not there.

[dimka100]

The market does, the market simply buys a diesel VW as clearly seen by VW's constantly growing sales numbers ...

I agree with you about the Falcon Diesel ... its clearly political ... as Ford would not get extra funds from GovCo if they did not go the EcoBoost route ...

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im not saying thats a market Ford should be pushing for, Im just not wanting a SUV or 4x4 at the minute, but TDi across the range would rock and I feel that its not there for political reasons...if you go through the effort of engineering it for the RWD Tez the its not going to take alot (mainly tweeking) to get it into a Falcon.

Still there are awesome choices coming up and it seems Ford is playing the field to see what will work or what the market wants, but the market cannot buy something that is not there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

The market does, the market simply buys a diesel VW as clearly seen by VW's constantly growing sales numbers ...

I agree with you about the Falcon Diesel ... its clearly political ... as Ford would not get extra funds from GovCo if they did not go the EcoBoost route ...

Not true, the funding was to provide more fuel efficient vehicles as the
$40 million covered V6 Diesel Territory, EcoLPI Falcon and Ecoboost Falcon.
Now, if Ford felt there was a case for an Ecoboost RWD Territory and a V6 Diesel Falcon
then I'm fairly certain that the governemnt would add money to develop such vehicles
but the point is that Ford has to be careful which vehicles it develops and in what order
to avoid internal competition between two products. The aim of the game is to grow sales,
and not to replace existing vehicles with new ones with perceived economy advantages.

So while it might be nice to have V6 diesel, EcoLPI and Ecoboost options available
perhaps Ford feels it may be too many products, too quickly in front of buyers...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But the point is that Ford has to be careful which vehicles it develops and in what order
to avoid internal competition between two products. The aim of the game is to grow sales,
and not to replace existing vehicles with new ones with perceived economy advantages.

Avoid internal competition???..... meanwhile I look over and see the same sized Mondeo and Falcon for the same price with the same 2.0l EcoBoost motor.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Avoid internal competition???..... meanwhile I look over and see the same sized Mondeo and Falcon for the same price with the same 2.0l EcoBoost motor.

You're not seeing the same thing:
1) The FG Ecoboost is not released yet
2) Mondeo barely passed 300 sales last month..
3) I know what you're saying but the buyers are different

When speaking about internal competition, I'm talking about the petrol I-6 being replaced by other engines,
there's a need to protect the volume of I-6 sales but also grow new products too so careful attention
to which engine options are offered at present is prudent if Ford is to pull this off.

I don't doubt that a diesel falcon would have significant following but maybe that's a vehicle to
consider when fuel prices begin to ramp up in the future. For now, I'm pleased that the
Falcon range is drought proofed as mucha s possible, I doubt that Holden folk could say the same....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You're not seeing the same thing:
1) The FG Ecoboost is not released yet
2) Mondeo barely passed 300 sales last month..
3) I know what you're saying but the buyers are different

When speaking about internal competition, I'm talking about the petrol I-6 being replaced by other engines,
there's a need to protect the volume of I-6 sales but also grow new products too so careful attention
to which engine options are offered at present is prudent if Ford is to pull this off.

I don't doubt that a diesel falcon would have significant following but maybe that's a vehicle to
consider when fuel prices begin to ramp up in the future. For now, I'm pleased that the
Falcon range is drought proofed as mucha s possible, I doubt that Holden folk could say the same....

I understand. Just that Burela's EgoBoost seems like such a waste of time and money for a vehicle which is being aimed at fleets (according to Ford) and in my opinion will have very little incremental volume. Geesh its not even going into the utes, which need some help.

We both agree that diesel would be interesting for the Falcon. I am the first one to say you have to spend money to make money in the car business - but I am seriously thinking that the trouble of making the 2.0l EcoBoost fit this generation Falcon for a few years is not worth it. Could be wrong though (hopefully), I suspect it must be more bankrolled by the government than we realise.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I understand. Just that Burela's EgoBoost seems like such a waste of time and money for a vehicle which is being aimed at fleets (according to Ford) and in my opinion will have very little incremental volume. Geesh its not even going into the utes, which need some help.

Huh?
I think you'll find that EcoLPI is by and large for fleets and that Ecoboost is mostly aimed at retail.
The first vehicles to get Ecoboost will be G6 and G6E, does that sound like fleet customers to you?
And the Ecoboost XT is aimed squarly at Mums and dads getting tech at a right price to save fuel.
The fact that Ecoboost Falcon also gives it access to four cylinder only fleets is an added bonus.

We both agree that diesel would be interesting for the Falcon. I am the first one to say you have to spend money to make money in the car business - but I am seriously thinking that the trouble of making the 2.0l EcoBoost fit this generation Falcon for a few years is not worth it. Could be wrong though (hopefully), I suspect it must be more bankrolled by the government than we realise.

Yes, it's a very different vehicle, an image changer and perhaps needed to break the stereotype..
This Falcon still has close to four years to run, two until the next update and two more after that.

IMO, Holden are the ones stuck for a plan, Malibu looms large as the fuel efficient large vehicle above Cruze,
The best Holden can hope for is that Malibu fails badly because if it doesn't, chances are that Commodore
sales will be savaged by an own product, something deeply troubling to Holden chiefs.....

[prydey]

that goauto article on the previous page tells me ford's lpg sales must be starting to ramp up and the general is getting worried, so it releases an article (a big long one) that doesn't really say much at all.

they will release a dedicated lpg model next year but have no details

Although Holden is yet to spell out details of its system,

then it appears that after bagging the ford's spare wheel issue, they face the same problem

To try to free up room, Ford has dispensed with the full-sized spare wheel as standard equipment, instead offering a puncture-repair ‘goo’ can or no-cost space saver spare. If owners insist on the full-size spare, they can have it, but luggage space is further restricted.

It is unclear if Holden will follow a similar route with the spare wheel,

just holden trying to steal some thunder yet again.


as for the euro diesels, do they sell more diesels than petrol?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

that goauto article on the previous page tells me ford's lpg sales must be starting to ramp up and the general is getting worried, so it releases an article (a big long one) that doesn't really say much at all.

they will release a dedicated lpg model next year but have no details

Yes there is:

Now, Holden and its LPG tank supplier appear to have engineered a solution with a gas tank mounted under the back of the Commodore, using the space usually occupied by the petrol tank and apparently without encroaching on boot space.

This solution means all three Commodore body styles – sedan, wagon and ute – can accept the new tank arrangement without space penalty in cargo areas.

Holden will become the only local manufacturer to offer an LPG-equipped wagon, as Ford has discontinued its Falcon wagon and does not offer an LPG Territory. This will give Holden an advantage with fleet buyers.

Commodore uses a saddle tank behind the rear seat, so that means the new dedicated LPG can keep the spare tyre.
and will be available in Sedan, ute and Station wagon, it also means that Caprice can also be fitted with LPG.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Commodore uses a saddle tank behind the rear seat, so that means the new dedicated LPG can keep the spare tyre.
and will be available in Sedan, ute and Station wagon, it also means that Caprice can also be fitted with LPG.

re read the article. they are referring to the fact that the falcon lpg tank gives falcon a shallower boot than the petrol. they then go on to discuss the tyre issue, which is what i quoted.

i'm guessing the lpg tank will be bigger than the existing petrol tank and may make the spare wheel placement a little tricky.

i'm just guessing, but thats the way i read the article, otherwise why state what i quoted.

[jpd80]

Phew, glad to be proven wrong.

OK, they might have a dedicated LPG car but it's not as good as the Falcon,
and they still don't have anything to go against Ecoboost and ya know what,
I'm now thinking that a diesel Falcon may be impossible for Holden to match.

Is it me or does Holden seem to be stuck (addicted) to performance V8 sales?
I think that could be a dangerous thing for them if fuel prices suddenly jump..
Ford seems to have a better package of engines with Falcon....

[spaceman]

Originally Posted by BAFrod

Question: (if anybody knows) Will the fg2 g6 lower grille fit the XR grille? I don't like all the black plastic, and the chrome surround on the g6 would sit nicely next to the xr6t's chrome foggies...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe the lower grille is part of the Bumper Bar!!!

[Falc'man]

If I had the choice between Ecoboost and diesel I'd go the former; it gives nothing away at low rpm and murders the latter up top.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

If I had the choice between Ecoboost and diesel I'd go the former; it gives nothing away at low rpm and murders the latter up top.

Ecoboost I-4 will be fine, similar power and torque as AU XR6 VCT.

Mind you, Jaguar XF with 2.2 I-4 diesel gives 5.5 l/100 km...

[notty1978]

i have just seen this post and my prices are different...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

BMW 3 Series & 5 Series Diesels would prove you wrong there.. Likewise with MBENZ C Class Diesel and E Class Diesel.. The new C250 is apparently the car to own atm!

Diesels more up market then LPG...

Diesels only make up like 5-10% of passenger vehicle sales. Its over 50% in SUV's. So its only really a small slice of the market for Falcon if it got a diesel.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not many people know that FoA was in the running for supplying the V6 Duratecs
but the collapse of the Magnesium plant project in Central Queensland robbed them of their
supply base and as such the alternative supplier put their cost avove Nth America.

What could have been....

I always wondered why they bought into that magnesium mine. I was thinking we were going to start seeing magnesium used to help keep weight down, in dash support panels and seat frames. But where does the Duratec V6 use magnesium. As far as I know it doesn't, the only Ford engine I know of that has used magnesium was the rocker covers in the Triton 5.4 3V.

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Whoever said diesels were dirty is wrong. These days with particulate filters they are better than petrol.

Particulate emissions and NoX are much higher in diesels, and they still smoke under heavy acceleration. Even the high end Euro stuff does it, i've seen a new Audi Q7 blowing a big puff of smoke, as well as an X5. After a few k's they will all do it eventually.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

When people think LPG they think dirty old taxi.

And when people think of diesel they think dirty old truck.

Everyone hates having to sit behind diesels cause they stink. The new diesel engines ain't much better, and the greasy pumps are horrible too.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I always wondered why they bought into that magnesium mine. I was thinking we were going to start seeing magnesium used to help keep weight down, in dash support panels and seat frames. But where does the Duratec V6 use magnesium. As far as I know it doesn't, the only Ford engine I know of that has used magnesium was the rocker covers in the Triton 5.4 3V.

Ford did not buy the mine or plant, they and Fiat agreed to buy the first 12 months production...
Unfortunately the development company commenced the plant construction before the design
was complete and without a major financial backer. So when the investors money ran out,
the project wen bankrupt and $30 million of mom amd dad investment money was gone.
The Queensland government was left embarrassed because they encouraged investment in the project.
Ford was left without the promised supplies and so had to bail on the V6 proposal...

Originally the block and heads were going to be magnesium alloy to produce a light engine...

The plan was to build a future vehicle with Aluminium body on a magnesium frame.

[Polyal]

I dont understand the logic behind saying "this fuel is less energy dense", or it "emits more bad particles"..at the end of the day I care about one thing only when it comes to a daily, family type car, and thats running costs.

From my experience diesel gives drive-ability that I would rate as good (low down torque, IMO it actually makes less sense in small cars but anyway), and better fuel consumption. Whether it has filters etc does not phase me one bit, people only harp on about being green because its the PC thing to do, both from a corporate and private perspective (although I note business is pushed via legislation etc).

My preference is LPG because its more "local", and its a proven product with my experience, but it just does not suit everyone, I think TDi has a much wider audience.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...om_top_choices
more carsguide dribble

[Nikked]

Was there even a point to that story?

Ive got a better one

Headline:
The sky is blue.


Canberra is the captital of australia...


Makes more sense...

[prydey]

i just saw that as well, and filled out the survey ticking all the fords (where possible) any one can do this, and like me, have no clue about the cars they are voting against or for (at least i know about falcon).

how can those awards have any credibility at all? any one can just log on and vote without knowing a thing about each car.


all the article did is drum up even more negativity toward the local products.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...om_top_choices
more carsguide dribble

And the leader of the poll is Nissan GTR.

So what does this say......it is a poll voted on by people who don't buy new cars....

[jpd80]

A poll is only worthwhile if it serves a purpose and in this case, it appears to be nothing more
than a wish list for people who may or may not be seriuos buyers, we just don't know,
they could be 12 year olds on mum's computer.

People's opinions of cars are also based on past experience and not usually what's being offered
in new models and that's why we should take these dodgey polls with a grain of salt......

[dimka100]

And what exactly is wrong with the GTR??? Its a marvel of engineering that easily betters just about anything under 400K in this country ...

Originally Posted by flappist

And the leader of the poll is Nissan GTR.

So what does this say......it is a poll voted on by people who don't buy new cars....