VP commos they r quickish!?!? y?

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Thew most accurate part of this whole thread is the bit at the start where someone said "if you throw X amount of dollars on a windsor it will beat any VP.
Gee what a feeling knowing i have to change my factory V8 with big dollars just to beat a V6 commodore!
I wonder what would happen if the same X amount of dollars was thrown into a V6?
I bet it wouldn't rattle then, and belt the windsor proberbly too.

LOL good luck all you could get out of that vaccuum cleaner is more power to clean my car, pfft v6 commodores belting windsors too far bro

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by TotalDriver

I can't believe you lot are still going over this OLD GROUND!

It's a good read though. Funny as all 5hit!

Cheers,

lol i agree with the amount of bitching and drag/race stories its a wonder it hasnt been pulled

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by TotalDriver

I can't believe you lot are still going over this OLD GROUND!

It's a good read though. Funny as all 5hit!

Cheers,

Much like a certain $1k XA GT eh...

[xd5.8l]

Auto the commo has the advantage due to better gearing. A manual i6 would destroy I reiterate DESTROY a commodore V6. I've driven many and I don't think anyone can argue this. The i6 breathes deeply and with that heavy bottom end needs a few revs to get going. The buickj V6 is like the 202 a wheezy off the mark jack rabbit.

[x_phantom_x]

Geez reading this thread puts the late model BA 6 cylinders to shame..I mean a piece of sh.t vn pulling same times as a current model ford which has 182kw. Anyway still love my BA, as power doesn't worry me.

[FGX-351]

as much as i consider myself the king of commodore bashing rants and threads on aff im tryin to stay on my leash in this one(check it out folks mr showstoppa showing some self control for a change:P) but anyways this is how i see it here, your all talking about these v6 commodores compared to i6 falcons of the same era am i right? of course i am juniors! lol:P but theres one that everyones forgotten about and one of my personal favourites the 3.9 mpfi s pack falcon, since the commodore s rival was the falcon s and since the commodore s used the same buick thing as the base model im taking it upon myself to make a comparison with the multipoint, but yes vn/p v6 has nothing on the multipoint s pack. rant over for now lol

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

The V6 Buick derived Holden motor has been the laughing point of Holden for years, no motoring journo's like it, HSV played with a 180s/c version, and couldnt sell any, what more proof do you want ???

I own one, and i have driven VN's through to VY's, the motors got progessively better with each model, with the VN ranking as one of the worst cars i have ever owned, and the VY not being a bad car.....its a good car for the family and pottering around, but as i said earlier.....the V6 IS A BREATHLESS, NOISY AND UN REFINED MOTOR, compared to the BA I6.


Oh, and btw, why are there so many more Falcon I6 Taxis around than V6 Commodores?????The Falcon I6 lends itself better to LPG conversion and is a FAR more durable motor than the V6.

You can't tell me what my car does since you have no clue as to what it is. Simple as that. Don't tell me it's the worst engine built don't tell me it's breathless, Don't tell me it's the laughing point of holden for years cause that laughing point has handed many a I6 a big beating and you know it. Simple truth is i own one and have not issues as you have stated simple as that. If you can't take the word of a owner of one then you got problems.
Man you can gas anything it means nothing what type of car it is you can gas my rear or anyones gas is gas they all run it.
Don't forget ford don't want to be known as a taxi car.
I was online reading a review on the EB Falcon one point that made was it was noisy, And the tester had it a close second behind the VP.

Originally Posted by Rollin

LOL this thread is funny!!!!

commo V6 = poo, and I reckon I have driven more of them than everyone who has posted in this thread put together.

In stock form, over 400m, a vn/vp/vr/vs/vt/vx MAY beat its equivalent model I6 falcon, but it will be a much nicer drive for the person in the I6, and does anyone on either here or the holden forums really care about the stockers?

Start with a manual version of each car, throw 1500 bucks at aforesaid vehicles and you will see why the I6 is a superior motor to the V6.

Throw 14psi into each (dead stock) engine and then run down the quarter until one of them dies - Not only will the I6 live longer, but it will be quicker every time...

Now thats a bit wrong, (The I6 will do a head gasket first:P) One thing the Buick engine isn't is crap or unreliable. This i vouch for, I had to drive my car back over 200km because i couldn't get a tow and had no road side assitance (i do now), I was on the freeway @ about 65kp/h all the way home with only 2 gears, It didn't over heat it didn't miss a beat, With then almost topping 300,000km i was very surprised and very happy with it.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

(The I6 will do a head gasket first:P)

not if the 3.8 drops its guts between the 150k and 350k mark :P

[Beetus]

JESUS!!! i leave this forum, for a few days and its gone off its chops, right i started this thread. it was about me in my ed v8 only just beating a vp manual ute.......... alrite the commos are quick down low and dont handle well at high speed. But whoever said i needed to spend money to beat one is wrong, i was just wondering why they were so close, but then i used my iniciative and di some research. light and low geared gearbox simple as that. mines auto its a slug off the satrt and when revised i found the main r3eason for being wooped was i had major wheelspin........... stop baggin holdens and u holden owners stop sayin the motor is the saviour of commodores. and from my personal experience the new holdens against the ba's are completely dog . peace out...........

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

not if the 3.8 drops its guts between the 150k and 350k mark :P

Leaving it wide open there there was a guy on here his brother owns a 350,000km+ VN original engine, Reset your gauge mate
But i know the old 79 VB would cream everything in here for long serves, The clock on that stopped 4 years before we got it, That was 14 years ago the only thing done to it new head done in 1994. I couldn't even guess it's KM's. But it never broke down.
Even when it done the head we only had 4cylnders. But it was a engine that ran out of puff in the high revs, You just sat and waited for the shift to get some good drive again. But it couldn't last for ever it didn't have power steering and mum needed it so the VP found me when i needed car.

[FGX-351]

lol yeah i have a little brother whos after either a vl or a vp atm, the stress!:( haha

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

lol yeah i have a little brother whos after either a vl or a vp atm, the stress!:( haha

The case for a VP over a VN is bigger then many think, Wider track improvements to the Engine transmission. The VL's are smooth but not very powerful, they wind up good and are very nice sounding with a good sports. Maybe if it's his first the VL might be the go. I had experience in many cars much more powerful then myn but never in a V8:( It's always good to work it up harder to get a VL rear out, Very easy hitting a corner with a VN-P kickdown is neck snapping on corners out goes the rear. But don't let him buy a VK yuk i can't stand them plastic box.

[Joes_meat]

SlickHolden: Why didn't you just put power-steering on the VB? It's not that diffcult.

Also, the main reason the 202's ran out of puff at high revs was due to the carby. The VK EFI engines were quite a bit better, plus they had higher-flowing heads.
I still love my VC though, just got her running again today =). Loads of torque off idle, sounds like a beast, embarrases excels with two spark plugs leads missing. Only failed me once in the time I've had it. Shame it was a 20cent coin sized hole in piston 6.

I must say, the buick and ECOTEC engines are very reliable. I've seen many examples go to 4-500,000kms with only regular servicing. (Although I can say the same for e-series I6's, not including head gaskets.)

[Grechie]

The i6 IS a very tuff motor, mine survived a compression lockup into 1st @ 100km/h (mist down shift) and it still drove home, (never knew a vacuum line came off though) and nothing was wrong with it at all when we checked over, bit of a fright, but yea shes fine

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Joes_meat

SlickHolden: Why didn't you just put power-steering on the VB? It's not that diffcult.

Also, the main reason the 202's ran out of puff at high revs was due to the carby. The VK EFI engines were quite a bit better, plus they had higher-flowing heads.
I still love my VC though, just got her running again today =). Loads of torque off idle, sounds like a beast, embarrases excels with two spark plugs leads missing. Only failed me once in the time I've had it. Shame it was a 20cent coin sized hole in piston 6.

I must say, the buick and ECOTEC engines are very reliable. I've seen many examples go to 4-500,000kms with only regular servicing. (Although I can say the same for e-series I6's, not including head gaskets.)

The car was starting to rust and without spending a fortune on that it was just going to get us in trouble, And i hate them pulling us over, Truth was i have always wanted some extra grunt and A/C I get the VP the compressor died:(.
Know doubt the VK 3.3 with EFI is a decent car with some speed a guy around the corner has one it goes good, But the car as overall i got problems with all that fake plastic and such it's a VH with plastic,
Before the VB we had a Gemini Hot that thing was i loved it, Mum hated it was a rev heads car cam head 4 speed to low was a ripper and zooming past the big 6's, Mum looped it around a roundabout about 10 times. Blew the engine one night and i Had to cry it cost $3000. Stuffed a stock in it but it was toast.
My mums car before that was a VC 4 speed man. Another great car, She lent it to my sister 3 crashes later it was a rite off:( i could slap her:P.
My friend traded in his EA 5 speed for a VR berlina it's louder then my car i can here the engine before i see the car, A couple of years ago he bought a VSII Ute on gas, It's so quite never here him anywhere.

So is your VC stock or warmed up a touch?.

[FPVWEPN]

Slick holden:

Drop I6 into vp = quick car
Drop v6 into eb= slow car

nuff said

[Joes_meat]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

The car was starting to rust and without spending a fortune on that it was just going to get us in trouble, And i hate them pulling us over, Truth was i have always wanted some extra grunt and A/C I get the VP the compressor died:(.
Know doubt the VK 3.3 with EFI is a decent car with some speed a guy around the corner has one it goes good, But the car as overall i got problems with all that fake plastic and such it's a VH with plastic,
Before the VB we had a Gemini Hot that thing was i loved it, Mum hated it was a rev heads car cam head 4 speed to low was a ripper and zooming past the big 6's, Mum looped it around a roundabout about 10 times. Blew the engine one night and i Had to cry it cost $3000. Stuffed a stock in it but it was toast.
My mums car before that was a VC 4 speed man. Another great car, She lent it to my sister 3 crashes later it was a rite off:( i could slap her:P.
My friend traded in his EA 5 speed for a VR berlina it's louder then my car i can here the engine before i see the car, A couple of years ago he bought a VSII Ute on gas, It's so quite never here him anywhere.

So is your VC stock or warmed up a touch?.

If a VH A/C compressor is the same as a VP one I've got one you can have. Power steering pump too.
Came with the VH motor I bought off ebay. My old engine was stock, but I think the new one might have a lumpy cam by the way it idles and revs. Has a chrome rocker cover and a hi-flow air filter, so that makes me think the old owner may have done some cam-modifying as well. I've only driven it up and down the driveway so far, gotta get the carb tuned and registered.

I know how you feel about the VK's. The VB-C-H's look much better with their proper bumpers.

I've got a VS too. My dad will take it if I've parked behind him. I never hear it start up, take off, anything. Not like the EF, which always starts on 5 cylinders - I just can't get that thing running properly.

So... What was this thread about again?

[macca_779]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

The case for a VP over a VN is bigger then many think, Wider track improvements to the Engine transmission. The VL's are smooth but not very powerful, they wind up good and are very nice sounding with a good sports. Maybe if it's his first the VL might be the go. I had experience in many cars much more powerful then myn but never in a V8:( It's always good to work it up harder to get a VL rear out, Very easy hitting a corner with a VN-P kickdown is neck snapping on corners out goes the rear. But don't let him buy a VK yuk i can't stand them plastic box.

VP's aren't very powerfull either 127kw's is hardly earth shattering and besides VL's weigh nearly 70kg's less so the power to weight comparrison is close.

EB's put out 148kw's not to mention a hell of a lot more torque. Not hard to work out the superior engine is it.

[Faker]

Holy crap, what a ridiculous thread. Oh, Hi I'm new.
It started with a Ford V8 racing a VP V6 look at it now.
I drive an AU Falcon and a VN Lexcen series one and as stock cars the VN kills the AU over the 400m easily. The AU is worlds apart in the way it drives and is so much more comfortable than the VN.
The VPs were slower than the early VNs and both run between 15.62 and 15.87 in the autos in stock form.
The figures below are from performance tests recorded on various sites on the net so look them up. Here is a Falcon site http://www.geocities.com/falconfacts/falcon/index.html
and one for the Commodore http://holden.itgo.com/vn.html (this site is good for a laugh for Ford lovers as it shows just how slow the old Monaros were)
The EA Spack manual ran 7.54 - 8.5 0 - 100 and 15.58 - 15.8 0 - 400m.
The Commodore S or exec manual ran 7.56 - 7.75 0-100 and 15.60 - 15.78 0 - 400m.
As for autos the VN/VP 7.93 - 8.22 0 - 100 and 15.62 - 15.87 0 - 400m.
EA/EB Autos were as we all know very slow at 9.0 - 10.83 0 - 100 and high in the 16s for the 400m as were all Falcons up to the BA (excluding XR6s and V8s).
Most of the XR6 manuals were actually slower than the EA Spack manual.
The EB 5.0 litre manual was also slower than the Spack and the VN V6s in either Auto or manual.
Both the V6 and I6 are breathless motors up in the rev range nobody can truthfully claim otherwise. Neither is terribly nice to sit behind.
The Buick motor is very harsh and noisy but is very reliable, Falcon motors, well how many head gaskets should you have to change in 3 years. Apart from that they are reliable. Both are ridiculously inefficient compared to say the 3.0 litre Camry 140kW in the 93 model when the 3.8 had 125kW, the 3.9 had 139kW and the 4.0 148kW with nearly an extra litre in capacity. Then there are the non turbo 2.0 litre cars with 105+kW, we won't mention them.
I hope there is no more spouting of inane garbage in this thread as it is a waste of time arguing and achieves nothing.
This, my first post, will probably anger or annoy some but who cares, no-one else has posted any figures for or against. Save typing the crap and check independant test figures for the Commodores.
Of course some will say this post is crap but I hope if anyone does they are mature enough to have the details handy to prove it.

[Joes_meat]

Originally Posted by macca_779

VP's aren't very powerfull either 127kw's is hardly earth shattering and besides VL's weigh nearly 70kg's less so the power to weight comparrison is close.

EB's put out 148kw's not to mention a hell of a lot more torque. Not hard to work out the superior engine is it.

On paper the VL and VP's are closer than actual performance. (A bit like my VS, which has a better power-weight ratio and can barely get a sub 9.0 second 0-100.)

However, I'd probably get the VL. Easier to get big power figures out of (think RB25/26 head.) Cheaper. Better looking, especially a nice VL Calais over a VP exec - probably not many good examples of Calais around these days though.

A Falcon may be a better bet for your brother - they seem to have lower resale values. Which is always a good thing when you're stuggling to get your first car. (Although a VL is a lot lighter, with a much more economic engine.)

[OzJavelin]

.. and yet again this morning I had two VN junkboxes try and drag me off at the lights in my SV8. I think it's a bit of a "complex" for some of their owners .. "no my cars not junk, see how fast it goes, see, see!!!"

[oneredED]

Like most holden commodore you get into the 200's you can't believe the handling and smoothness that comes, They call it like a coan of silence the wind dies the car just hit smoothness from no-where, That was motors words a couple of years ago.

Thats not true. If you've ever taken a pre-VT commodore to those speeds, you would know that the wind noise is unbearable, and the handling is actually quite scary. I would not like to admit it, but having been over 200 in quite a number of them, I can safely say you haven't. However 5ltr VS's arent too bad, maybe it's the extra weight in the front, but I'm not sure. This is one issue that my younger brother agrees with me on, he even thinks his car is woeful at speed (which is rare for a young commodore driver to admit).

[VS MANUAL]

Originally Posted by oneredED

Thats not true. If you've ever taken a pre-VT commodore to those speeds, you would know that the wind noise is unbearable, and the handling is actually quite scary. I would not like to admit it, but having been over 200 in quite a number of them, I can safely say you haven't. However 5ltr VS's arent too bad, maybe it's the extra weight in the front, but I'm not sure. This is one issue that my younger brother agrees with me on, he even thinks his car is woeful at speed (which is rare for a young commodore driver to admit).

Your right.
Yes in standard form i would not take a pre VT past 200km/h.
But if it has been lowered, has stiffer shocks and fatter tyres, they are not that bad. Mine pulls past the 220 mark quite easily and of all the times i have done this, i have never been concerned about the handling.

But i will admit that against my bro's ED XR6, his handles even better at speed. I put it down to the wider track.
His is a nice car the drive, an excellent cruiser. Power wise it is ok (being an auto it not awesome, i don't know why ford insist on using a ridiculous tall first gear), starts pulling hard from 3000rpm to redline, where mine pulls harder below 3000rpm than his, but not as well as his at the redline area.
The old mans BA however is a pretty quick car for its bulk. A past threat says i think anything over 120km/h and you can wave bye bye to a V6, i can say this would be quite correct.
Again the BA would over my car power wise throughout the rev range, especially up top. bUt performance wise it still would not keep up with mine purely to the weight issue.

I am hoping thought that the higher ratio rockers i have just ordered correct this i guess "asthmatic" higer rpm problem.

[SunDrifter]

Oh look its a thread with mention of holdens! ZOMG!



Have a pancake.

Current stock Vs Current stock, the I6 is the better motor. If you spend enough money on any car and make it somewhat decent.

[RG]

This thread is worse than a dodgy old Commo V6.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by FPVWEPN

Slick holden:

Drop I6 into vp = quick car
Drop v6 into eb= slow car

nuff said

Stick a VP engine and tranny into a EB you got a sleeper:P All your mates will be asking why does your car actually move now?

Originally Posted by Joes_meat

If a VH A/C compressor is the same as a VP one I've got one you can have. Power steering pump too.
Came with the VH motor I bought off ebay. My old engine was stock, but I think the new one might have a lumpy cam by the way it idles and revs. Has a chrome rocker cover and a hi-flow air filter, so that makes me think the old owner may have done some cam-modifying as well. I've only driven it up and down the driveway so far, gotta get the carb tuned and registered.

I know how you feel about the VK's. The VB-C-H's look much better with their proper bumpers.

I've got a VS too. My dad will take it if I've parked behind him. I never hear it start up, take off, anything. Not like the EF, which always starts on 5 cylinders - I just can't get that thing running properly.

So... What was this thread about again?

I'm not sure with the compressors also?.
What a spew you could have had the old VB my brothers mate was to take it up on his farm to drive around but moved back to Melbourne, The reg ran out and i was thinking it would cost a lot to fix the rust, And time which was the main issue, We need a car that the cops won't pick because it's old it wouldn't have passed a Police check, And as much as i would have loved to have keeped it we just couldn't keep 2 cars, We tried that with the Gemini and the VB but it was a waste of money the Gemini just sat there we really don;t need 2 cars and also i got no-where other then the back lawn to keep a car. Pretty easy car to work on compared to the VP but thats how they all get over the years.
Your VC sounds like my friends old VC it ran ruff and drank petrol bad, He finds a big lumpy cam in it He's funny he said ohh thats why it drank and burnt my tyres out :hihi:
But VB-C-H all in SLE trim looks sweet still, I love the two tone VH SLE.
On you EF my brothers old EF was similar to yours, He told me he had to warm it up more to get it running on all 6. He done the head about 8 months later but it came back. Didn't worry him much cause he always warms a car up. Even the BA.

Originally Posted by macca_779

VP's aren't very powerfull either 127kw's is hardly earth shattering and besides VL's weigh nearly 70kg's less so the power to weight comparrison is close.

EB's put out 148kw's not to mention a hell of a lot more torque. Not hard to work out the superior engine is it.

Sure the VP isn't earth shattering in Power i don't think i have claimed that 127kw is earth shattering in power and runs with lambos.
But if your going to look into the VP VL EB look closer.
VP 127kw 293NM 1337kg.
VL 114KW 247Nm 1272kg.
EB This is funny i had to find a EB II GLI to find that power increase because the EB GL was a snail. Why ese did ford move back to the 4LT. But if you have driven a VL and VP on the same day you would know it is no match for the V6. For starter they don't get off the mark as fast they don't build revs as fast and as easy, My nephew spent over $2000 on his mum VL Calais, LSD Diff 3.9 Tranny shift kit had the motor tunned for 145kw. It still wasn't door to door with the V6 but it got the rear out easier and it was much more responsive low down with the 3.9 and mid range power was boosted.
But you should know more power and torque doesn't make the Superior engine. I can here the LS1 owners screaming that for the last 4 years.

Originally Posted by oneredED

Thats not true. If you've ever taken a pre-VT commodore to those speeds, you would know that the wind noise is unbearable, and the handling is actually quite scary. I would not like to admit it, but having been over 200 in quite a number of them, I can safely say you haven't. However 5ltr VS's arent too bad, maybe it's the extra weight in the front, but I'm not sure. This is one issue that my younger brother agrees with me on, he even thinks his car is woeful at speed (which is rare for a young commodore driver to admit).

A good question to ask anyone that has hit high speeds in these pre electronic autos if it was?. Did you hit 4th gear flat out?

[TotalDriver]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Much like a certain $1k XA GT eh...

Cold, that was cold!!


Cheers,

[Joes_meat]

SlickHolden: It only runs on 5 for 5 seconds at the most. I hope its not a headgasket :(. It took 4litres of coolant the other day too - hope its leaking. Surging on acceleration, idles like a pig.

[minux]

Being a holden owner(by the looks of things soon to be ford owner) i have not seen holden people post so much in one post. Ford's 6 has always been better then holdens V6, actually even better then holdens straight 6. I much prefer to drive my oldies BA II Fairmont Ghia, over a mates VY Calais. Granted Off the line ford's seem slow, but nothing that diff gears cant fix

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Joes_meat

SlickHolden: It only runs on 5 for 5 seconds at the most. I hope its not a headgasket :(. It took 4litres of coolant the other day too - hope its leaking. Surging on acceleration, idles like a pig.

Even when warm my brother would run at first on 5cyl. But i had no idea until this thread it was such a wide spread thing the head gaskets. It Might with yours just maybe a tune-up?. The VP only when it wants to leaks coolant for days then stops and hasn't in about a month leaked a thing.
My brothers mate had a cracked head in his EL, He got chemi weld and the car is still going and they say it's only a temp fix over 12 months ago.
But it kind of sounds like his car what you described not sure on the surging but it started to go through coolant more. I wonder how you can find out if it's going?.