Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

[PoweredByCNG]

Don't forget that in many European countries, LPG infrastructure is very limited if available at all.

Regards,
Dave

[MO]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Don't forget that in many European countries, LPG infrastructure is very limited if available at all.

Regards,
Dave

I'll check and get back tomorrow but in the mean time isnt there a lpg pipeline from Russia that feeds a quite a few countries there.

[Mr Hardware]

The reason the euros love diseasels is because of the way they structure their fuel excise
The reason real aussies love LPG is because of the way we structue our fuel excise

Aussies who follow euro trends in different circumstances are barking up the wrong tree.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by MO

I'll check and get back tomorrow but in the mean time isnt there a lpg pipeline from Russia that feeds a quite a few countries there.

Ummm... that would be a natural gas pipeline.

Regards,
Dave

[RG]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

The reason the euros love diseasels is because of the way they structure their fuel excise
The reason real aussies love LPG is because of the way we structue our fuel excise

Aussies who follow euro trends in different circumstances are barking up the wrong tree.

That's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it, however insinuating that only real aussies love LPG is a little extreme.

You can keep your BBQ fuel (you want to bag diesel, I can bag LPG.)

[PoweredByCNG]

From what I've read, the market penetration of LPG cars is rather quite high in several European countries - namely Italy, The Netherlands and Poland. Notice something? YES, most of the LPG equipment available in Australia come from these countries!

Regards,
Dave

[prydey]

Originally Posted by RG

That's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it, however insinuating that only real aussies love LPG is a little extreme.

You can keep your BBQ fuel (you want to bag diesel, I can bag LPG.)

i wonder if petrol wasn't a finite resource, if lpg would ever have been considered. diesel on the other hand has many benefits of its own esp in the heavy vehicle industry.

[MO]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Ummm... that would be a natural gas pipeline.

Regards,
Dave

Yes it is and going by your nick not out of the realm of powering a car??

[RG]

Originally Posted by prydey

i wonder if petrol wasn't a finite resource, if lpg would ever have been considered. diesel on the other hand has many benefits of its own esp in the heavy vehicle industry.

Interesting, I feel that you may be on to something there as there really would be no need for it at all.

[eb2fairmont]

Funny thread this.

I have an dual fuel XFute and a TDI golf. Both have similar running costs given the price of the respective fuels.

However, would I pay for a conversion? No, mainly as the cost of conversion has increased by about 2K, negating the rebate. Not withstanding that I have to stump up the rebate upfront prior to getting it back. I don't drive far enough to justify it.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

However, would I pay for a conversion? No, mainly as the cost of conversion has increased by about 2K, negating the rebate...

Rubbish.

Mixer-based conversions can be had for under $3000 which will leave you less than $1250 out of pocket after the rebate.

Care to tell me how you got PAID to convert your XF ute to LPG???

Regards,
Dave

[RG]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Rubbish.

Mixer-based conversions can be had for under $3000 which will leave you less than $1250 out of pocket after the rebate.

Care to tell me how you got PAID to convert your XF ute to LPG???

Regards,
Dave

Maybe it was on gas when he bought it?

I can't really see why some can't discuss/debate this without becoming aggressive.

[MO]

Originally Posted by RG

Maybe it was on gas when he bought it?

I can't really see why some can't discuss/debate this without becoming aggressive.

Might have something to do with being a real aussie and loving lpg...or not?lol

[BruceT]

I understand the LPG Falcon (156 kW) is quite underpowered and less torquey (371 Nm) compared to the petrol version (195 kW & 391 Nm). One important reason for this is the Falcon still has a carburettor.
See:
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...=60920&IsPgd=0

This doesn't have to be the case as the (after market) Commodore demonstrates.
Liquid injection, as the linked article explains, would deliver more power with the Falcon.

The LPG Falcon even lacks standard safety features seen on the petrol version and has a 4 speed auto, instead of 5 or optional 6 on the petrol - not to mention occasional refueling problems.

If Ford made a decent effort of the LPG Falcon I would probably buy one. As it is they have a captive market in taxis and don't seem to care. It may be too late for them to try. It may be impossible to save the Falcon. I hope not, it's the most Australian car there is and has a proud history. A good family car that cost less than a Fiesta in fuel costs would be a fantastic competitive advantage. But there is no way I'd consider their current offering.

I am still not sure of the feasibility of LNG or CNG cars. LNG requires an expensive refrigeration system. CNG requires heavy thick walled tanks to hold the huge pressures. LNG & CNG probably work well on heavy vehicles (buses & trucks) due to economies of scale and weight not being an issue. In fact I would strongly support converting ALL Australia heavy vehicles to natural gas fuel. Then our heavy vehicles could be fueled cheaply with an abundant local energy source, rather than importing expensive diesel. (Australian crude oils are light and are used to make mostly petrol.) But that would require a Federal governemnt with at least have a brain and a vision for the future.

[Mr Hardware]

You can keep your BBQ fuel

Fine with me. Also, I love BBQs.

Falcon still has a carburettor.

Wrong.

The LPG Falcon even lacks standard safety features seen on the petrol version

Not any more. Old news.

If Ford made a decent effort of the LPG Falcon I would probably buy one.

Well you'll only be waiting 6months to a year.

As it is they have a captive market in taxis and don't seem to care.

Ford doesn't care about taxis.

[RG]

^^ People, please meet my "Example A" ^^

[Mr Hardware]

Huh?
No aggression there!
You see, LPG isn't used because so much old information surrounds LPG. Even if it is only six months old, people are happy to peddle it.

[PoweredByCNG]

Wrong.

Actually a venturi-style gas mixer IS an elementary carburettor...

Regards,
Dave

[BruceT]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Wrong.
Not any more. Old news.
Well you'll only be waiting 6months to a year.
Ford doesn't care about taxis.

Sorry Mr Hardware, do you have any evidence for your assertions? :

[Mr Hardware]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/28837/20...iew-road-test/ for stability control

and saying that a car has a carby does not equal saying the gas setup is similar in fashion to the workings of a carby

And there's several threads on here about Ford's new Liquid Injection LPG system for the new falcons in 2010

And ford stopped caring about taxis when they stopped making taxi-packs and fitted IRS as standard in 2002.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Huh?
No aggression there!
You see, LPG isn't used because so much old information surrounds LPG. Even if it is only six months old, people are happy to peddle it.

You have an opinion and it is a valid one, you may even have a few valid points in there too.

Your delivery of said opinions and points is where you seem to fall down. Work on that and you may just have a wider audience.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

and saying that a car has a carby does not equal saying the gas setup is similar in fashion to the workings of a carby

That's the biggest load of tripe I've heard you come up with so far.

An elementary carburettor is a venturi that draws fuel into the intake stream using Bernoulli's principle. Venturi-style LPG systems function like this, no?

They may have addition electronic controls, but at the end of the day an air-valve or venturi-style LPG system is a single-point, carburetted system.

Regards,
Dave

[MO]

I'm with you on the carby,saved me googling so that I got it right.

[4Vman]

Does every LPG thread have to turn into a freakin contest? im genuinely interested in this topic but like most others its rapidly disintegrating....

[BruceT]

Several people on this forum seems to confuse liquified petroleum gas (LPG - a propane/butane mix) with compressed or liquified natural gas (CNG/LNG), which is methane. Currently LPG is a by-product of oil refining or natural gas extraction. LPG (Aust. annual production about 3.5 million tonnes) is no where near as abundant as natural gas (Aust. annual production 16 million tonnes).
http://www.aph.gov.au/SEnate/committ...ions/sub91.pdf
While there is scope for growth in LPG use (especially beyond peak oil), it probably won't be the only solution.

I would like to see efforts made to:
1) Convert all heavy vehicles in Aust to natural gas.
2) Try and reduce the cost of natural gas in cars:
"Light-duty natural gas vehicles tend to cost $4,000 to $8,000+ more than a gasoline-powered vehicle." (In the US)
See:
http://www.pge.com/myhome/environmen...cs/index.shtml
3) Stop "wasting" natural gas by liquifying and exporting so much of it - 30% of its energy content is required to liquify it!
4) Double LPG take-up (almost certain)
5) Look at alternatives including hybrids.

I don't think diesel has a long term future in Australia - all of it is imported and there will be so much demand in 10 years it will be too expensive. At least our dwindling oil supplies produce petrol!

[PoweredByCNG]

Personally I believe that LNG looks promising for cars. The problem with CNG is the space required onboard a vehicle for the pressure vessels. Just to give you a bit of an idea, a diesel bus has a 200-300L fuel tank which yields a range of about 600km. A CNG-fuelled bus requires cylinders with a liquid capacity of well over 1000L to achieve the same range.

Regards,
Dave

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Does every LPG thread have to turn into a freakin contest? im genuinely interested in this topic but like most others its rapidly disintegrating....

Seconded.

But is anybody listening?

There are some interesting offshoots to this thread which may even deserve their own discussion, but as usual we seem to find difficulty staying on topic.

[russellw]

For those who don't read the monthly sales stats in the Tech area here are a couple of the graphs we look at each month.

The first looks at new car sales for passenger vehicles as a percentage of the total sales in the segment - this is a better way of looking at the data because the raw numbers are impacted by movements in the market.



From this we can see that diesel has risen from 1% to 6.5% of sales while Hybrids started at 0.26%, peaked at 0.78% last year and are currently running at 0.63%.

LPG started at 0.91%, peaked at 1.39% in 2006 and is currently running at 1.16%.



Light commercials show a slightly different picture.

The diesel share has risen from 41% to 65% while LPG started at 1.32%, also peaked in 2008 at 2.97% and is currently running at 2.34%.

Across all segments (including SUV), diesel holds 23% of the market, Hybrids 0.45%, LPG 1.15% and petrol the rest - 75% or still 3 of every 4 cars however when we compare this to 2005 petrol vehicles made up 87.6% of all new car sales.

Why this is the case is the difficult question to answer but clearly motorists are turning to alternatives in substantial numbers. Whether these decisions are based on marketing initiatives, perception of "green" or the alignment of the planets is perhaps a question we don't have an answer to.

Cheers
Russ

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by MO

Might have something to do with being a real aussie and loving lpg...or not?lol

They should put this question on the Aussie citizenship test:

You are a true Aussie if?

A. You drive a Ute
B. You like either a Holden or a Ford
C. You love BBQ's
D. Your car has an LPG system

[zetec]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

No offence, but you will NEVER those figures from city driving out of a Falcon. You'd be lucky to get under 13L/100km in the city, and that's with sedate, careful driving.

Regards,
Dave

How do you explain my 12.5L/100 average in a 2,000km old FG Falcon XR6 Turbo then?

Pfffft. Must be bulldust. I'll book you in for an appointment with my trip computer.