Has your ZF milkshaked poll - POST 2012 ONLY

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

And the same people continue to call authenticated knowledge to be unfounded rubbish

Can you please show us the authenticated evidence to the contrary?

There are 7 failed heat exchangers in the poll

The poll is not accurate because some people struggle to comprehend english, and i probably wasn't as clear as i should have been. I know at least one of the 'failed' votes is a v8, so doesn't apply, and at least 2-3, possibly more are 2012 build dates or earlier.

your 'authenticated knowledge' is just your opinion. it doesn't matter how you say it.

[NITRO307]

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

authenticated knowledge

How? Because you authenticated it George?

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

There are 7 failed heat exchangers in the poll

How do you ‘authenticate’ the poll wasn’t affected by friends of trans cooler resellers?

Little knowledge can be disastrous. You don’t even seem to understand how a ZF gearbox functions. You can install whatever trans cooler you want on your car. Run the gearbox on fish oil if you want. Just don’t go around telling people your “fix” and pretend you know it all and more than Ford + ZF R&D teams combined.

I apologise if I offend you with this. I respect you as a person and appreciate you have gone to the length of solving an issue on your car with the best solution you found at the time. But please let us not mislead others.

“Let us eliminate the paranoia....”

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by prydey

The poll is not accurate because some people struggle to comprehend english, and i probably wasn't as clear as i should have been. I know at least one of the 'failed' votes is a v8, so doesn't apply, and at least 2-3, possibly more are 2012 build dates or earlier.

your 'authenticated knowledge' is just your opinion. it doesn't matter how you say it.

No, my opinion is based on "authenticated knowledge".

So we remain "polls apart" as ever

Originally Posted by NITRO307

How? Because you authenticated it George?



How do you ‘authenticate’ the poll wasn’t affected by friends of trans cooler resellers?

Little knowledge can be disastrous. You don’t even seem to understand how a ZF gearbox functions. You can install whatever trans cooler you want on your car. Run the gearbox on fish oil if you want. Just don’t go around telling people your “fix” and pretend you know it all and more than Ford + ZF R&D teams combined.

I apologise if I offend you with this. I respect you as a person and appreciate you have gone to the length of solving an issue on your car with the best solution you found at the time. But please let us not mislead others.

“Let us eliminate the paranoia....”

It is quite clear from your comments that you have not read or have misinterpreted my posts here and most definitely have not read my thread or taken the time to consider my poll outcomes either, despite you posting in it

It is not my "fix", I am not misleading others and I do not pretend to know more than Ford/ZF.

The pros and cons of all options need to be out in the open and not just the OEM, so people can make a considered choice, that is not misleading anyone

When you have read my thread, then I will welcome your judgement on my motives and knowledge

Any constructive comments you may have will be welcome in my thread once you have taken the trouble to actually read it

This is primarily a poll thread after all and is supposed to be an indicator of what is happening with respect to failed (or not) OEM heat exchangers

George.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

This is primarily a poll thread after all and is supposed to be an indicator of what is happening with respect to failed (or not) OEM heat exchangers

George.

Not quite. There was already a thread, with a poll, canvassing the forum regarding the reliability of the factory setup.

I started this thread, specifically referencing later build dates, to establish whether or not the situation had improved in later builds.

Of course it just ended up getting abused by those with an agenda.

It did mostly confirm that the situation did indeed improve toward the end despite some people continuing to push the idea that it was a ticking bomb.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

And the same people continue to call authenticated knowledge to be unfounded rubbish

Can you please show us the authenticated evidence to the contrary?

There are 7 failed heat exchangers in the poll

We established years earlier that those 7 results were from people that couldn't read the criteria of the Poll.

Sorry if that upsets you, as I know you've spent an unusual amount of time posting long threads for no apparent reason.
But I'm quite happy that mine, an others are driving Fords without having to worry about this myth.

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

We established years earlier that those 7 results were from people that couldn't read the criteria of the Poll.

Sorry if that upsets you, as I know you've spent an unusual amount of time posting long threads for no apparent reason.
But I'm quite happy that mine, an others are driving Fords without having to worry about this myth.

It does not upset me in the least if the latest OEM heat exchanger has never failed and caused a "Milkshake in a post 2012 ZF", quite the contrary, if that is actually the case, I am very glad to hear it

There are also people that have voted "no" in the poll that have actually installed air/oil coolers.

But sorry, anyone who believes that the "Milkshake" is a myth has been mislead

[NITRO307]

George, you may decide to run your ZF gearbox on used cooking oil. Then you go to the effort of demonstrating your ‘authenticated knowledge’ by documenting how you filtered the used cooking oil, how you drained the ZF, how you filled it with used cooking oil, how you went for a drive and recorded transmission temperature and compared with an earlier drive you went on. Nothing goes wrong and you conclude it is OK to use cooking oil and want people to know that they don’t have to use Lifeguard 6 anymore.

If someone questions your knowledge, you push them to read your thread. No thanks.

Here is a tip for you George. Get numerous identical cars from brand new. Fit them with various coolant/oil heat exchangers, air/oil coolers. Then run them under various controlled and reproducible conditions so many times that it is statistically valid. ZF gearbox gives out a wealth of data so record all that data along with controlled test conditions and ambient conditions. Get your findings peer reviewed by experts and get it published in a high impact journal. Share that study here and it won’t be called misleading and having a hidden agenda.

Until you do that George, no need to post here.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by BF11GhiaZF6

There are also people that have voted "no" in the poll that have actually installed air/oil coolers.

So In my view they are more at risk by somebody doing a botched job. a lot of mechanical failures are from where people have tampered with things.

Better off leaving it alone - trusting the manufacturer - save your pennies to make tin foil hats

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by NITRO307

George, you may decide to run your ZF gearbox on used cooking oil. Then you go to the effort of demonstrating your ‘authenticated knowledge’ by documenting how you filtered the used cooking oil, how you drained the ZF, how you filled it with used cooking oil, how you went for a drive and recorded transmission temperature and compared with an earlier drive you went on. Nothing goes wrong and you conclude it is OK to use cooking oil and want people to know that they don’t have to use Lifeguard 6 anymore.

If someone questions your knowledge, you push them to read your thread. No thanks.

Here is a tip for you George. Get numerous identical cars from brand new. Fit them with various coolant/oil heat exchangers, air/oil coolers. Then run them under various controlled and reproducible conditions so many times that it is statistically valid. ZF gearbox gives out a wealth of data so record all that data along with controlled test conditions and ambient conditions. Get your findings peer reviewed by experts and get it published in a high impact journal. Share that study here and it won’t be called misleading and having a hidden agenda.

Until you do that George, no need to post here.

Ludricrous,

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

So In my view they are more at risk by somebody doing a botched job. a lot of mechanical failures are from where people have tampered with things.

Better off leaving it alone - trusting the manufacturer - save your pennies to make tin foil hats

Can be the case, that's true, but it's like any aftermarket mod, if it's done correctly it's fine.

There are many top mechanics/service providers/aftermarket suppliers around and some of them are sponsors of this Forum.

As our Falcons get older we will be relying more and more on aftermarket products and parts too.

You can choose to leave well alone and that's fine too.

George.

[gkhn]

I guess we will find out in a year or two.
Those new FGXs are getting older bordering 4-5 years old now.
They will end up in one of these threads once milkshaked or is it milkshooked ?
Will see what happens

[mexicov]

Does anyone really know how many ZFs have milkshaked? How many have milkshaked but owners are unaware of these Ford Forum threads and thus have not reported? I doubt Ford Australia would advertise “in-warranty” milkshaked boxes. Maybe the reported milkshaked incidents on these Forums are only the tip of the iceberg.

[NITRO307]

Originally Posted by mexicov

Does anyone really know how many ZFs have milkshaked? How many have milkshaked but owners are unaware of these Ford Forum threads and thus have not reported? I doubt Ford Australia would advertise “in-warranty” milkshaked boxes. Maybe the reported milkshaked incidents on these Forums are only the tip of the iceberg.

Exactly. Thanks Mexicov. And how many got paranoid and got sucked into scaremongering by people running fear based business.

No real data on why the milkshake occurred in the first place. I doubt aftermarket resellers would advertise their failed trans coolers and heat exchangers. And people who made the decision to fit one or the other aftermarket "fix" that failed or caused issues in working of the gearbox are unlikely to come here any say they made a wrong decision and go on to defend their fragile ego. Including George.

To prove your point George, perhaps send letters to all the Ford owners who bought the car with a ZF gearbox and ask for the responses to failed/not failed how the car was maintained. Aftermarket fitted or not worked as normal or not. Gears shifted as normal or not. Fuel economy worsened or not. Maybe then your "Poll" may be factual and authenticated.

Until then, it is just scaremongering and promoting an agenda. People here have mentioned several times that perhaps George gets a commission hence feels the need to promote this "fix". Personally I don't think that is the case. I think it is just human nature that George needs to defend his decision and don't want to see his time spent on doing all his garden shed testing go to waste and proved wrong.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by NITRO307

George, you may decide to run your ZF gearbox on used cooking oil. Then you go to the effort of demonstrating your ‘authenticated knowledge’ by documenting how you filtered the used cooking oil, how you drained the ZF, how you filled it with used cooking oil, how you went for a drive and recorded transmission temperature and compared with an earlier drive you went on. Nothing goes wrong and you conclude it is OK to use cooking oil and want people to know that they don’t have to use Lifeguard 6 anymore.

If someone questions your knowledge, you push them to read your thread. No thanks.

Here is a tip for you George. Get numerous identical cars from brand new. Fit them with various coolant/oil heat exchangers, air/oil coolers. Then run them under various controlled and reproducible conditions so many times that it is statistically valid. ZF gearbox gives out a wealth of data so record all that data along with controlled test conditions and ambient conditions. Get your findings peer reviewed by experts and get it published in a high impact journal. Share that study here and it won’t be called misleading and having a hidden agenda.

Until you do that George, no need to post here.

Rubbish.

I have examined over half a dozen ZF heat exchangers and two PWR heat exchangers. They do fail for multiple reasons.

If you dont know the history of the car change it immediately for a new genuine ford

[NITRO307]

Originally Posted by arronm

If you dont know the history of the car change it immediately for a new genuine ford

Thank you. Finally someone makes a sensible comment.

[mexicov]

WHY are we arguing???
It seems to me those who oppose fitting air/oil exchangers do so on the basis that the modification contravenes ZF engineers’ designs and will cause transmission damage thus reducing the life of the box. They are prepared to risk a milkshake based on the expectation that the designed OEM exchanger won’t fail even on a time/mileage basis. They are entitled to their opinions.
Those who have fitted air/oil exchangers are not prepared to risk a milkshake (which has occurred even while the vehicle is under warranty – albeit infrequently) and have used a low cost modification that will completely eliminate the risk of a milkshake and the possibility of $6000 to $7000 hit in the wallet. They are gaining confidence daily in the integrity of the mod following the positive experiences over reasonable mileages. They, also, are entitled to their opinion.
George, who highlighted the milkshake and recommended air/oil exchanger, has never proposed the mod be mandatory; is trying to spread the word of a potential problem, and to my knowledge has not gained financially from his recommendations. Who knows how many owners have been spared the cost and inconvenience of a milkshake due to his advice?
So, lets chill out and accept that we have different views with different risk aversion and cease the angst that is coming out in these threads of the Forum. As I’ve always maintained – “to each his own”.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by gkhn

I guess we will find out in a year or two.
Those new FGXs are getting older bordering 4-5 years old now.
They will end up in one of these threads once milkshaked or is it milkshooked ?
Will see what happens

Same odds as it happening to a Prado id say.. but some people wear sunscreen in winter - good for them.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by mexicov

Does anyone really know how many ZFs have milkshaked? How many have milkshaked but owners are unaware of these Ford Forum threads and thus have not reported? I doubt Ford Australia would advertise “in-warranty” milkshaked boxes. Maybe the reported milkshaked incidents on these Forums are only the tip of the iceberg.

umm, isn't that the point of this thread Poll? just read the title.

[ratter]

There is some good information here, but there is so much rubbish information in this post it would be funny except it may cost an owner a lot of money following some of it.
Most of it has no substance or factual information except for hearsay supplied by some people trying to support their choice on the direction they personally went.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by mexicov

WHY are we arguing???
It seems to me those who oppose fitting air/oil exchangers do so on the basis that the modification contravenes ZF engineers’ designs and will cause transmission damage thus reducing the life of the box. They are prepared to risk a milkshake based on the expectation that the designed OEM exchanger won’t fail even on a time/mileage basis. They are entitled to their opinions.
Those who have fitted air/oil exchangers are not prepared to risk a milkshake (which has occurred even while the vehicle is under warranty – albeit infrequently) and have used a low cost modification that will completely eliminate the risk of a milkshake and the possibility of $6000 to $7000 hit in the wallet. They are gaining confidence daily in the integrity of the mod following the positive experiences over reasonable mileages. They, also, are entitled to their opinion.
George, who highlighted the milkshake and recommended air/oil exchanger, has never proposed the mod be mandatory; is trying to spread the word of a potential problem, and to my knowledge has not gained financially from his recommendations. Who knows how many owners have been spared the cost and inconvenience of a milkshake due to his advice?
So, lets chill out and accept that we have different views with different risk aversion and cease the angst that is coming out in these threads of the Forum. As I’ve always maintained – “to each his own”.

You do release there are plenty of other brands of cars driving around with in radiator transmission coolers. earlier falcons did have some issues. this thread is to demonstrate the issue was resolved.

[mexicov]

arronm In recommending that one changes the OEM exchanger if you don't know the history of the car suggests that you don't have confidence in the product.
Bevsta007 I am fully aware of the title of this thread. The poll is not definitive. How many of the tens of thousands of BF/FG owners are unaware of, or uninterested in contributing to this Forum?

[gkhn]

Please let us know the rubbish and good information so we all know and can make better decisions.

Originally Posted by ratter

There is some good information here, but there is so much rubbish information in this post it would be funny except it may cost an owner a lot of money following some of it.
Most of it has no substance or factual information except for hearsay supplied by some people trying to support their choice on the direction they personally went.

[NITRO307]

Originally Posted by mexicov

arronm In recommending that one changes the OEM exchanger if you don't know the history of the car suggests that you don't have confidence in the product.
Bevsta007 I am fully aware of the title of this thread. The poll is not definitive. How many of the tens of thousands of BF/FG owners are unaware of, or uninterested in contributing to this Forum?

Arronm isn't saying he has no confidence in the product. He has seen OEM and PWR both fail for various reasons. If you buy a second hand car, you do not know how it was maintained. Many people buy a second hand car and replace all fluids straightaway because they do not know when the fluids were changed or what fluids were used or what unnecessary additives added based on their knowledge founded from the 'spin' by aftermarket sellers.

[Vesper Martini]

Sigh........

[gkhn]

You can keep replacing the heat exchanger regularly with FORD OEM heat exchanger. Don't forget to top up with fluid too. This is a good advice if you want to save your transmission.
But deep within you, there will always be that fear of milkshake even with new heat exchangers...
Hope you have xray vision so you can see if the part is faulty before installing it and do not end up with a cheaply made weak Chinese heat exchanger.
I bought the air2oil cooler. It will last until the transmission craps itself which can be a long time.

Originally Posted by NITRO307

Arronm isn't saying he has no confidence in the product. He has seen OEM and PWR both fail for various reasons. If you buy a second hand car, you do not know how it was maintained. Many people buy a second hand car and replace all fluids straightaway because they do not know when the fluids were changed or what fluids were used or what unnecessary additives added based on their knowledge founded from the 'spin' by aftermarket sellers.

[mexicov]

Notro307 Changing fluids because of unknown history is based on fluids having a time/mileage life. What is the life of an OEM exchanger?

[ratter]

Originally Posted by arronm

Rubbish.

I have examined over half a dozen ZF heat exchangers and two PWR heat exchangers. They do fail for multiple reasons.

why did the PWR ones fail and what did PWR say about it?

[gkhn]

I would be ****ed if that expensive heat exchanger failed...
Best to go with Ford OEM as arronm suggested.
Or you know the other option by now

Originally Posted by ratter

why did the PWR ones fail and what did PWR say about it?

[gkhn]

It is a lifetime OEM heat exchanger.
It lasts the life time of your transmission.
What is a lifetime?
It is 5 years according to fine print.
If you want to keep your car for 5 years, its ok I guess.

Originally Posted by mexicov

Notro307 Changing fluids because of unknown history is based on fluids having a time/mileage life. What is the life of an OEM exchanger?

[arronm]

Originally Posted by ratter

why did the PWR ones fail and what did PWR say about it?

Both were stray currents leading to electrolysis

As soon as i cut them open i knew. Didnt bother contacting PWR its not their issue