The drug "Ice"

[Dash_XR]

Removed.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by trublu

Can you provide references to prove this?

I would beg to differ it would curb premeditated crimes in the taking of human life, it would be an interesting result if a referendum was held in this country on reintroduction of capital punishment.

To be quite honest I don't think drug dealers crimes would ever fall under capital punishment at all

Look up the US States where capital punishment is still used for premeditated murder than reference their premeditated murder rates against those States where capital punishment isn’t used.

While I lived there this was a common ongoing debate because of the conceived US hypocrisy with their stance on human rights issues around the world, whilst at home they still kill their own in the name of criminal punishment.

That debate uses many references from around the world and through history to argue the points.

Add to that the percentage of wrongful convictions that is also currently under debate there, the need for offenders to ensure all witnesses are deceased prior to exiting the crime scene, the fear police already have of offenders and their quick use of lethal containment to deal with that fear and probably many other scenarios smarter people other than me could divulge. Check out Mexico for their take on ensuring no witnesses to the drug trade.

Genocide is the only way that comes close to cleansing a population’s mindset and even that only works if there are absolutely no survivors. Look at some parts of Asia where the death penalty is used for trafficking for further examples. Add to that the executions handed out in the Middle East and South Asia for soft crimes involving women and adultery or extreme punishments for thief and you see punishments no matter how horrific do not change the human condition.

There is plenty of info available if you are really interested in researching it and you’ll start to get a picture of the failure of Capital Punishment as a deterrent.

As they say, laws are only for the honest, nobody else gives a ……

And I’ll stress again, I’m not pro drugs in any form but your children are already dying and families being destroyed in huge numbers and the only ones doing well out of it are the top tier criminals who have the money and power to make themselves untouchable.

This is an extremely emotional and difficult problem that is growing out of control and I understand the stance others take on extreme punishment as a solution.

This is my take on it and it’s not for the faint hearted.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ross 1

I'm not advocating giving them the drugs, just making sure they are safe when they do. It would be better to take half an ecstasy at a friends house with water and help available compared to a whole tablet in the middle of a paddock at a rave in 35 degree heat.

Or pick the wrong mushroom by mistake off the ground at Mt Macedon and surrounds where magics grow naturally and die from it.

Not neccessarily magic related but it seems ACT pops up in the news every now and again where some poor sucker has picked and eaten a death cap thinking it was something else.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Look up the US States where capital punishment is still used for premeditated murder than reference their premeditated murder rates against those States where capital punishment isn’t used.

While I lived there this was a common ongoing debate because of the conceived US hypocrisy with their stance on human rights issues around the world, whilst at home they still kill their own in the name of criminal punishment.

That debate uses many references from around the world and through history to argue the points.

Add to that the percentage of wrongful convictions that is also currently under debate there, the need for offenders to ensure all witnesses are deceased prior to exiting the crime scene, the fear police already have of offenders and their quick use of lethal containment to deal with that fear and probably many other scenarios smarter people other than me could divulge. Check out Mexico for their take on ensuring no witnesses to the drug trade.

Genocide is the only way that comes close to cleansing a population’s mindset and even that only works if there are absolutely no survivors. Look at some parts of Asia where the death penalty is used for trafficking for further examples. Add to that the executions handed out in the Middle East and South Asia for soft crimes involving women and adultery or extreme punishments for thief and you see punishments no matter how horrific do not change the human condition.

There is plenty of info available if you are really interested in researching it and you’ll start to get a picture of the failure of Capital Punishment as a deterrent.

As they say, laws are only for the honest, nobody else gives a ……

And I’ll stress again, I’m not pro drugs in any form but your children are already dying and families being destroyed in huge numbers and the only ones doing well out of it are the top tier criminals who have the money and power to make themselves untouchable.

This is an extremely emotional and difficult problem that is growing out of control and I understand the stance others take on extreme punishment as a solution.

This is my take on it and it’s not for the faint hearted.

Just banish them, problem solved. anyone into that stuff and your gone end of story.
You want to take it up, fine ! your gone. problem solved. happy times for people with out putting up with deros.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by castellan

Just banish them, problem solved. anyone into that stuff and your gone end of story.
You want to take it up, fine ! your gone. problem solved. happy times for people with out putting up with deros.

Look at it this way, if it were your child, sibling, friend, would you want them banished? Killed? Imprisoned? Or, would you rather see them get help?

[_Ben]

While we're out giving capital punishment for druggies, how about mandatory jail time for speeding. Cars 98mm instead of 100? Cut of a toe, see if you do that again.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

Look at it this way, if it were your child, sibling, friend, would you want them banished? Killed? Imprisoned? Or, would you rather see them get help?

I can assure you there are many times when you want them banished or in Prison.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by _Ben

While we're out giving capital punishment for druggies, how about mandatory jail time for speeding. Cars 98mm instead of 100? Cut of a toe, see if you do that again.

Where has this been said?

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I can assure you there are many times when you want them banished or in Prison.

Punish those in need of help, if that's how you feel towards a loved one I really don't want to know your opinion of how the others should be treated....

[Maka]

Family's are victims too when loved ones make the choice of taking drugs. All victims of crime want is creditable justice not a slap on the wrist, victims want rehab for those who need it but what about repeat offenders who cant be rehabed?

You know the ones, they play the system, they know the in's & out's of the system, do the minimum time then come out of jail (after 6 months) & are back into it. These people could be aged 14 or 52, what do we do about these people?

cheers, Maka

[Ibanezteve]

Part of rehab for any kind of abuse, should include going out and seeing, first hand, in a sober frame of mind the destruction that is caused by these affected people. I.e, in emergency wards, police callouts and on the streets. Putting them through a mundane govt organised slide show doesn't work. Or even better, throw them into the military for a few years.

[XBROO]

I for one would rather see them go the legalizing way, as this has a better chance of working then what we are currently doing. Why is there drug dealers? Money that's why, because most drugs cost SFA too produce. So by being illegal it makes a business for the dealers as the users can only get it of them. If the government set up a scheme where the users can go get their fix for nothing. This should get rid of the dealers and also identify the users. So they can help them slowly with out them thinking they are getting help. By having a program in place to try and ween them off it, by slowly changing doses. Look I haven't got a correct be all or end all answer, but they need to try something.

[motorcycles4eva]

very sad but real topic

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

Punish those in need of help, if that's how you feel towards a loved one I really don't want to know your opinion of how the others should be treated....

Then you haven't been there.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

Look at it this way, if it were your child, sibling, friend, would you want them banished? Killed? Imprisoned? Or, would you rather see them get help?

Just banished is the deal and if they did this 50 years ago we would not have all the problems we have today.
I am not talking about dope but stuff that kills and destroys people. you can come back after a time I would think.
Not jail that does not work.
Help would be there for them if they wanted it in banishment.
Same thing with grog if it's out of hand.
I seen my mate go down the path of drugs and I am not impressed with how the government deal with it all. they created it as well as a backward weak stupid peoples. I could of stoped him from his self back in the beginning but society did not want that, mainly because they are to stupid to know how to deal with it all and there is big money to be made in a lot of fields out there.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Then you haven't been there.

I have seen the effects of methamphetamine abuse first hand.
I understand the sense of frustration felt in trying to deal with such. Acting out on these frustrations isn't the answer. But yes at times it's easy to wish it all away, crave for it to be someone else's problem. Gotta be above it.

[Polyal]

Not an easy topic to discuss. I want to agree with the legalisation theory but I just cant swallow it.

In saying that I trial surely couldnt hurt in one state, use good ol Tassie which has happened before when trailing idea's.

My only concern with the gov giving it for free is will that promote others to try it? Or is it that easy to get now anyone could if they wanted to.

I must hang with a different crew, I wouldnt even know where to get pot let alone anything hardcore. My mates are all normal blokes, drink to much on weekends etc but none of us have taken that path. Tried the odd pill here and there but certainly nothing more than that and certainly not regularly.

As for the producers and dealers themselves, all assets seized, and there should be some kind of community service within rehab centers for a prolonged period for the effects to sink in. They know what happens but obviously dont care.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I for one would rather see them go the legalizing way, as this has a better chance of working then what we are currently doing. Why is there drug dealers? Money that's why, because most drugs cost SFA too produce. So by being illegal it makes a business for the dealers as the users can only get it of them. If the government set up a scheme where the users can go get their fix for nothing. This should get rid of the dealers and also identify the users. So they can help them slowly with out them thinking they are getting help. By having a program in place to try and ween them off it, by slowly changing doses. Look I haven't got a correct be all or end all answer, but they need to try something.

Legalise drugs will not see much happening at all, you will stop users going to gaol & that will be about it as the government will just collect taxes, oh yea governments will advertise the bad things drugs do like cigarettes & Alcohol & no more.
In the end government gets extra revenues, less people in gaol & more increased taxes which wil be win win win for government coffers.

Governments now cannot control Acohol & smoking abuse, what makes you think drugs will be any different.

Just my opinion.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by trublu

Governments now cannot control Acohol & smoking abuse, what makes you think drugs will be any different.

Just my opinion.

This is pleading ignorant to the facts buddy.
Austrlaias rate of decrease in smokers in amongst the highest in the world. In recent years a decreasing trend in binge drinking has been seen as well, not as substantial in comparison, but we do have decades of social promotion to combat.

[Ross 1]

Health experts in Portugal said Friday that Portugal’s decision 10 years ago to decriminalise drug use and treat addicts rather than punishing them is an experiment that has worked.

“There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal,” said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

The number of addicts considered “problematic” — those who repeatedly use “hard” drugs and intravenous users — had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said.

Other factors had also played their part however, Goulao, a medical doctor added.

“This development can not only be attributed to decriminalisation but to a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies.”


With these kind of results shouldn't it be worth a go? Even if it takes 20 years to achieve the same results in Oz.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

This is pleading ignorant to the facts buddy.
Austrlaias rate of decrease in smokers in amongst the highest in the world. In recent years a decreasing trend in binge drinking has been seen as well, not as substantial in comparison, but we do have decades of social promotion to combat.

You should go out more often to the entertainment hot spots to see Binge drinking & as for smoking well you can ban people smoking in a lot of places does not mean people give up smoking.
Granted people are quitting but not in the high numbers as portrayed by the authorities.

Again my opinion.

[tut0r]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

This is pleading ignorant to the facts buddy.
Austrlaias rate of decrease in smokers in amongst the highest in the world. In recent years a decreasing trend in binge drinking has been seen as well, not as substantial in comparison, but we do have decades of social promotion to combat.

With the price of smokes here now days, no wonder people are quitting more than other countries, we pay a small fortune for those damn things.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by trublu

You should go out more often to the entertainment hot spots to see Binge drinking & as for smoking well you can ban people smoking in a lot of places does not mean people give up smoking.
Granted people are quitting but not in the high numbers as portrayed by the authorities.

Again my opinion.

So that you notice people acting the fool out drunk, that you notice the people smoking where they shouldn't be, on this basis you assume numbers portrayed by the authorities are wrong?

I realise it still occurs, go to a club or pub on a Friday night and you'll see a bunch of drunks.
In non smoking areas of course you will notice those doing the wrong thing.

I just don't see where you are making your correlation between the bleeding obvious and the assumptions you've made.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by tut0r

With the price of smokes here now days, no wonder people are quitting more than other countries, we pay a small fortune for those damn things.

Absolutely. The ridiculous taxes are a great incentive for a lot to give them up.
But take up rate of school aged kids is also on a downward trend, this might also be due to pricing, hard to say really.

[GasoLane]

Stay on topic please.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by trublu

Legalise drugs will not see much happening at all, you will stop users going to gaol & that will be about it as the government will just collect taxes, oh yea governments will advertise the bad things drugs do like cigarettes & Alcohol & no more.
In the end government gets extra revenues, less people in gaol & more increased taxes which wil be win win win for government coffers.

Governments now cannot control Acohol & smoking abuse, what makes you think drugs will be any different.

Just my opinion.

Look like I said I haven't got a total answer, but I know if you take the money away, then you take the dealers away. So if it's free the users won't have to pay for it, so the crime rate should go down. If there's no money in it then you won't get people pushing the stuff at schools. And yes if the government can make money from it, then maybe they might relax on speeding. 'Yeah I know wishful thinking.'

[pottery beige]

Such interesting concepts

lol

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/hea...-1227136922443

[bathurst-racer]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I for one would rather see them go the legalizing way, as this has a better chance of working then what we are currently doing. Why is there drug dealers? Money that's why, because most drugs cost SFA too produce. So by being illegal it makes a business for the dealers as the users can only get it of them. If the government set up a scheme where the users can go get their fix for nothing. This should get rid of the dealers and also identify the users. So they can help them slowly with out them thinking they are getting help. By having a program in place to try and ween them off it, by slowly changing doses. Look I haven't got a correct be all or end all answer, but they need to try something.

This sounds like the methadone program which operates in the community and in prisons.
If people knew of the rorts, crime and misery caused by this scheme they would be appalled.
I don't want to generalise however it is my experience everyday that there is no helping a drug addict because they lie, manipulate and live to take without any thought of gratitude or contributing to society.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Look like I said I haven't got a total answer, but I know if you take the money away, then you take the dealers away. So if it's free the users won't have to pay for it, so the crime rate should go down. If there's no money in it then you won't get people pushing the stuff at schools. And yes if the government can make money from it, then maybe they might relax on speeding. 'Yeah I know wishful thinking.'

Why make it free, bloody hell you want to get people off it not promoting free drugs to use courtesy of the tax payer.