AFL Finals - Discussions and results

[rodderz]

What a great final. One of the better games I've seen all year. The 1st half was very hard fought. It seemed like Geelong were expecting to win and went out with that in mind, the hawks went out with "stuff them, we'll play our own game" attitude, and it paid off.

Geelong had their opportunities, with Bateman and Croad off injured and a couple of others with injuries still on the ground they squandered opportunities and had they converted some opportunities into goals, I reckon Geelong would of ran away with it. The hawks were on the back foot for a while, especially when they deliberatly rushed a heap of behinds. But the hawks seemed to keep fighting and ended up running away with it.

Well done Hodgey for the Norm Smith, the guy is as tough as nails. A great possible sendoff for Crawf too, the guy has a massive heart. I'm tipping Sam Mitchell will miss the 1st few games next year with his 2 hits on Ablett too!

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by pejamas

Just got home from centre square, and what can i say but suck on that geelong! god its so sweet to shut geelong up after they were so cocky about "running over hawthorn easily" as well as all the omg hawks will only win if it rains.. or only if buddy kicks a big haul ha ha couldn't be more wrong. So happy for crawf and the best game of footy Ive ever been too.

Were a happy team at Hawthorn....

When did Geelong ever talk about running over Hawthorn easily? Just because a few supporters do, you're prepared to brush an entire club with the same paintbrush?

On SEN, a call-in poll suggested that the cockiest supporters in the finals were Hawthorn supporters, and although their premiership is well deserved, had the Hawks lost, the egg on their faces would have been significant.

How about you go back and read some of my posts and see what I said about Hawthorn? Maybe then you'll get a better feel of what real Geelong supporters are like, rather than the few bandwagon jumpers who don't know who Fred Flanagan, Bernie Smith or Edward Greeves are, or who only follow Geelong because of Bartel.

It's arrogance that makes clubs so disliked...don't do a discredit to your club.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

hawthorn deserve their success - there is no doubt about that. they went out there to play

the signs were there from the anthem, when hawthron stood arm in arm and geelong stood arms by their sides. one side seemed to be there for each other, maybe not the other

from around 3-4 minutes when hawthorn's nerves were over, geelong looked pretty ordinary. they dropped the ball, missed targets and couldn't kick a goal from 15 metres - all with virtually no pressure

Rubbish.

In the 1997 Grand Final, St Kilda stood arm in arm while the Crows didn't. Who won that Grand Final?

All these silly theories are about clutching straws.

Cometti also spoke crap saying, "the signs might have been there last week when Geelong v Bulldogs blah blah"...well last year we beat Collingwood by 5 points and Port beat the Kangas by 76 or thereabouts, yet we thrashed Port by 119.
GF is down to the day...the moment...not the year or the previous week.

Hawthorn won because they played smarter and were more efficient, while Geelong at times was lazy. Better on the day, and although I reckon Thompson is a great coach, Clarkson coached a lot better on the day.
Hawthorn had a very open forward line, while Geelong's was cluttered. Hawthorn did not get all that many shots on goal, but their running power from smaller men were always at the drop of the ball, while our lack of leg speed showed. Stokes played stupidly for a small man.

Our best three were Scarlett, Selwood and Ablett. Johnson got the ball, but he caused a lot of errors along the way. Stokes is a disgrace. Lazy.
Too many passengers.

At Hawthorn, the performance was more even. That's where the difference lies...not in the linking of arms or any of that gestural crap.

Hawthorn deserved to win as a premiership is about a team effort, and the previous 25 weeks of the season are consigned to toilet paper and quickly used.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Fab

As Crawford said at the medal presentation.... "That's what i'm talkin' about!!"

GO THE HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :

LOL I knew you'd be a happy chappy Fab, what with that avatar you've had for ages. hehe

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

All these silly theories are about clutching straws.

maybe so, but geelong were in deep trouble by hawthorn's first goal. it seemed geelong were not switched on at all. i still thought they would win after 10 minutes, but they needed to lift big time. they did not
you may be right, but the fact is they looked disinterested minutes before the game and did not play at a level that could have won it, for virtually the whole game
i think you were right about the lazy part. geelong tried to rely on talent - hawthorn relied on effort


but then, it doesn't matter what i think (or anyone else for that matter), a golden opprotunity was let slip by one side and was taken by the other. history will always state that hawthorn won in 2008

in some ways it is a pity as the best side over the year did not come out on top, but that is what finals are all about. one day only - and the team that takes their opportunities with both hands will be very deserving

[prydey]

brisbane had a golden patch and walked out of it with 3 premierships and 4 GF's in a row. thats making the most of your opportunities.

essendon, for all thier greatness (52 from 57 or something) have only 1 flag to show for it.

geelong now have squandered their chance to do something special. 42 from 44 so far and only 1 flag. i think they went out there just expecting to win.

If young gary didn't have ablett for a surname, i don't think you'd hear half as much about him as what you do. i'm not saying he is not a great footballer, i'm saying the commentators get a bit too much to bear at times. there were about 20 players out there having a better game and yet when he got his hands on it they all ooh and aah like he's got the sun shining from you know where.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by prydey

brisbane had a golden patch and walked out of it with 3 premierships and 4 GF's in a row. thats making the most of your opportunities.

essendon, for all thier greatness (52 from 57 or something) have only 1 flag to show for it.

geelong now have squandered their chance to do something special. 42 from 44 so far and only 1 flag. i think they went out there just expecting to win.

If young gary didn't have ablett for a surname, i don't think you'd hear half as much about him as what you do. i'm not saying he is not a great footballer, i'm saying the commentators get a bit too much to bear at times. there were about 20 players out there having a better game and yet when he got his hands on it they all ooh and aah like he's got the sun shining from you know where.

When your team mates are not putting in an effort, Ablett's effort was supreme.
He broke through tackles and tried to make opportunities.
I don't agree with you totally. Yes, his name is recognised, but considering how great his father was, his PEERS AND the coaches of the AFL have voted him the best player. You don't win both in the same year just on a surname. He earned it.
20 players did not have a better game. Very few did. That's a distorted opinion based on the fact that his team didn't win.
He had a game high number of possessions, he was targeted twice off the ball and still got up, had the second most number of contested possessions, broke tackles as usual, and kicked two goals.

I do not believe your point is highly validated.

Ablett almost won the Brownlow, won several awards, and came second in the Norm Smith Medal. Commentators aside. He is worthy of adulation.

[gtxb67]

a bit of worthless trivia - slightly off topic, but slightly relevant to yesterday's game

in my life footscray/western bulldogs have lost 5 preliminary finals. in 4 of those years one of our players polled the most votes in the brownlow

in the 3 years we won the brownlow, the team that defeated us lost the grand final. in the other 2 years, the team that defeated us won the grand final

[prydey]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

He is worthy of adulation.

i never said he wasn't a great player. i just meant that at times the commentators go a bit over the top when he touches the ball. there is one d.cometti that i cannot stand. bruce is no better. expert comments by lethal were about the only ones i could stomach. one of the best call's going is triple m but its always out of synch if you have that playing whilst watching the tv.

[uranium_death]

Commentators have to make the game interesting...their job is to make the good players bigger than they are. IF not, their commentary would be boring.

Dake Thomas IMO is among the most overrated players in the league, but commentators always make his few productive deeds seem majorly important because they know that people's perception will be altered by their commentary...and it works.

I have no problem with Ablett being made big, because in my opinion, he has been the best player in the league over the past two seasons, and yesterday was not his fault. He was one of few whose form was level with their reputation.

Players like Steve Johnson are not as good and always are spoken up by commentators. I'm not a big Steve Johnson fan because I feel he's a genuine idiot.

One of the best players to watch over the past decade has been Andrew McLeod. The commentators get excited when watching him, and I reckon he's just great to watch. He moves so smoothly and his ball use is normally excellent.

I think a lot of people dislike Ablett because he is so good, and his father was so good.

People envy success. Nobody cared about Geelong until they started winning last year.
Now, Hawthorn will be the hunted team next year, and all other 15 teams envied the position they were in at 5:30pm on Saturday afternoon, as each captain of those teams would have loved to lift the cup in place of Sam Mitchell.

There is a lot of bullpoop in football, which is formulated by the media, as well as loud-mouthed footballers.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I'm not a big Steve Johnson fan because I feel he's a genuine idiot.

Atleast I'm not the only one.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

Atleast I'm not the only one.

I presume you mean not the only person who thinks Steve Johnson is an idiot, and not that you are not the only idiot :P

But I think Johnson is just a receiver too often. In last year's Grand Final, all of his goals were easy receives with little pressure.

Chapman was way, way better, and IMO best on ground was Scarlett, who two years in a row has been among Geelong's best players on the big day.

Johnson is the kind of person who doesn't appreciate the opportunity they have in playing AFL, nor do they accept the responsibility.

There is an argument that AFL players should not have to uphold the standards that are expected and reluctantly placed upon them, but when you represent a business and a sporting organisation, as well as earn a bloody good wage for kicking around a piece of leather, it is something you take on board, whether you want it or not.

Professional sport is constantly analysed and scrutinised for good and bad reasons, and a large degree of that is player behaviour.

If you don't want that spotlight on you, then go and play with your local football team, and nobody will care about you.

Didak and Shaw learned that this year the hard way, as did Johnson last year.

[Cobra]

Absolutely gutted. That's all I have to say...

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Absolutely gutted. That's all I have to say...

I am more peeved...we should have won the game, given our form all year, as well as our opportunities.

Hawthorn played so much better and had a better system up forward.
We had no system, and no accuracy.

So given our poor performance on the day, we didn't deserve it. Too many passengers.

Gary Ablett showed why he was the best in the AFL in the Grand Final...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i never said he wasn't a great player. i just meant that at times the commentators go a bit over the top when he touches the ball. there is one d.cometti that i cannot stand. bruce is no better. expert comments by lethal were about the only ones i could stomach. one of the best call's going is triple m but its always out of synch if you have that playing whilst watching the tv.

Cough* Buddy Franklin* Cough.

Some commentators think he's the second coming, yet the past 2 big games he has had little influence on the game like they all expected him too.

Ablett on the other hand stood up like a true champion does.

[uranium_death]

Franklin is good, but he is really still a receiver. If the supply from down the ground is cut, he won't get goals.
If he improved his fitness base and became more of a centreman, he'd be even better.

Look what it did for Ablett...

[pejamas]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Gary Ablett showed why he was the best in the AFL in the Grand Final...

Ummmm do u mean for Geelong or AFL in general? cause I'm pretty sure if he was the best he would have won the norm smith ( or brownlow )? ( Icing on the cake watching him cry when they announced Hodge the winner ). IMO after watching the game for the 5th time Ablett really does love to play for the free kicks, not to mention geelong had a lot of "helpfull" free kicks, 7 of there goals were from frees on top of the 29-21 overall tally, Don't care what any one thinks but Mclarren was wearing a Geelong jersey under that red shirt of his.

Geelong had all the help they needed, but like i said they got cocky they thought they would come to the game and beat hawthorn without a challenge. I'm also curious, if Geelong were so good why did they double team Buddy? didn't see hawthorn double team any geelong players? ( especially Ablett )

[SLY XR8]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I am more peeved...we should have won the game, given our form all year, as well as our opportunities.

Hawthorn played so much better and had a better system up forward.
We had no system, and no accuracy.

So given our poor performance on the day, we didn't deserve it. Too many passengers.

Gary Ablett showed why he was the best in the AFL in the Grand Final...

They were lucky to even make the Grand Final. If the Dogs had a full forward Geelong would have had an extra week off. Put Geelong under pressure and play them man on man thats what happens they can't handle it.


And the only thing Gary Ablett Showed he was the best at was Crying..

GO the Hawks...

[SLY XR8]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Franklin is good, but he is really still a receiver. If the supply from down the ground is cut, he won't get goals.
If he improved his fitness base and became more of a centreman, he'd be even better.

Look what it did for Ablett...

Just like most full forwards if their is no supply it's prity hard to kick goals..

[rodderz]

There was a news report today that one Geelong player or fan had already got a 2008 premiership tattoo put on last week, anyone know if it's fair dinkum? He'll have fun getting it off if true!

[SLY XR8]

Their was a picture of that in todays paper...


I never laughed so much.....

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by pejamas

Ummmm do u mean for Geelong or AFL in general? cause I'm pretty sure if he was the best he would have won the norm smith ( or brownlow )? ( Icing on the cake watching him cry when they announced Hodge the winner ). IMO after watching the game for the 5th time Ablett really does love to play for the free kicks, not to mention geelong had a lot of "helpfull" free kicks, 7 of there goals were from frees on top of the 29-21 overall tally, Don't care what any one thinks but Mclarren was wearing a Geelong jersey under that red shirt of his.

Geelong had all the help they needed, but like i said they got cocky they thought they would come to the game and beat hawthorn without a challenge. I'm also curious, if Geelong were so good why did they double team Buddy? didn't see hawthorn double team any geelong players? ( especially Ablett )

My my my...you really need to read more carefully.
My wording never said he was the best in the Grand Final...admittedly, he was one of the best on ground, but NEVER said he was best on ground.

I said that he showed he was the best in the AFL in the Grand Final. He performed on the big day, where Franklin (who is number two) was soundly beaten by one of the full-backs of this decade.
Ablett has also beaten taggers several times this year, and tagging him has proven counter-productive as he runs hard and breaks tackles at will. He was not caught often in the Grand Final, despite the heavy attention he received. It's called tactics mate. Ablett is hard to out-gun.
In fact, it shows how pathetic Mitchell was to target him twice in an unfair hit-off-the-ball.
Franklin was also beaten one-on-one by Scarlett many times during the game. He was kept quiet...beaten on the big day. No excuses.

And if you actually knew anything about the Brownlow Medal, you will learn that it does not truly represent the best player in a year in the AFL. Umpires are the worst judges. Greg Williams in 1993..40+ touches and not one vote. John Russo had an alledged personal agenda against Williams.
How can Goodes get only a handful of touches and get three votes? The umpires love him. Bartel had a great year again, but only received 10 votes. I would argue that BArtel had far more productive games than Goodes, yet Goodes received 9 more votes.
Even last year, I didn't think Bartel was the BEST player in the league. He was among the better, but not the best. Crawford in 1999 was one of the few occasions where the best player in a year wins the medal. Stynes in 1991 was another.
The Brownlow as I said is losing its relevance.
In 2004 when Essendon beat West Coast by a goal (the goal that Hird went to hug a supporter) and Hird creamed the Eagles in the last quarter (something like 14 touches in the last quarter to win the game for Essendon), he missed out on Brownlow votes after calling McLaren's umpiring the week before "a disgrace" on The Footy Show. As I said, umpires have too much of an agenda, and in a period of a 2-3 hour match, only remember certain instances, like Goodes running hard. (I don't understand how Goodes gets votes despite an average year!).

The AFLPA MVP has been gathering momentum for a while now, and that is where you are recognised as the best player by your peers, who are far better judges. Ablett won convincingly. Need another argument there?
Ablett also missed 4 games through injury. Given his strike rate of votes before he was injured, it was likely that he would have received a vote during this period and could have won...but he didn't. Such is life.

Ask most football fans who had a better year...Cooney or Ablett, and I am sure I know what people would say. Cooney had a great year and thorougly deserved his medal, but Ablett had a better year. Franklin also had a better year than Cooney overall, but why didn't he beat Cooney? As I said, Brownlow medals are awarded by wimpy little wusses that make inconsistent calls throughout the year. That is the way it goes.

Geelong was not cocky. Geelong never under-estimated Hawthorn. We only beat them by 11 points earlier in the year. This cocky thing in your head is a little complex you've developed through tension. All those Akermanis articles have possibly helped your complex develop further (and we all know how reliable Mr Akermanis is!).
Geelong was very confident, but on the day, players simply did not perform.
On the other hand, Hawthorn had a far more even contribution. That is why you won.
If Geelong had a forward structure and had kicked straight, you might have been put away in the second quarter. The Grand Final is about taking your oppportunities on the day. Geelong didn't.
Geelong lost because they were beaten by their opponents fair and square and kicked poorly.
A couple of those free kicks were justified, as fairness is important in sport, and Mitchell sniped Ablett twice. Of course, you'd think that was great. I think it was pathetic. Even the Hawthorn supporter next to me (a friend of mine) said that Mitchell was a for it.

In every game there are weak decisions, but I don't think there were any terrible decisions. There was one where Hunt was penalised for in-the-back, but he hardly touched his opponent. Ok...the game goes on. Build a bridge and walk over it.

You need to look at the facts. Geelong was not cocky. That's just a little seed that has grown in your head. Geelong was confident, and performed like a bag of manure on the day.
Enjoy your premiership with humility and grace rather than rubbing other people's faces in it.

Don't do a disservice to your club and how its fans are perceived.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by SLY XR8

Their was a picture of that in todays paper...


I never laughed so much.....

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/09/27/19565_news.html

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by rodderz

There was a news report today that one Geelong player or fan had already got a 2008 premiership tattoo put on last week, anyone know if it's fair dinkum? He'll have fun getting it off if true!

He was a supporter...yeah...that's arrogant. But one dillhole doesn't represent the entire Geelong supporter base.

[uranium_death]

Ablett the best at crying? Maybe he was upset because he was one of few who actually gave his all and the game meant something to him.
You need to watch the game and see what Ablett did. The only person who the judges voted ahead of Ablett was Hodge.

What is it with people bagging Ablett so much? He had passion on the day, and people are chastising him for that. If the rest of his team mates (Selwood and Scarlett aside) showed the same passion on the day, it might have been a different result entirely.

Looks like the SEN poll is coming out here.

[SLY XR8]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ablett the best at crying? Maybe he was upset because he was one of few who actually gave his all and the game meant something to him.
You need to watch the game and see what Ablett did. The only person who the judges voted ahead of Ablett was Hodge.

What is it with people bagging Ablett so much? He had passion on the day, and people are chastising him for that.

Looks like the SEN poll is coming out here.

I did watch the game. Im shore you being a Geelong suportor. and me being a Hawthorn suportor will have differant views. He thought he should have got the Norm Smith and didn't like it when he didn't. It wasn't going to be 89 all over again if he had kicked 9 goals he may have got it.

And i don't even listen to SEN.

[FordFella]

Get some balls and follow NRL.


If only the NRL were as smart as the AFL, THINK OF WHERE WE COULD BE NOW

[uranium_death]

Ablett was crying regardless...he wanted the premiership. His team mates let him down.

Simple as that.

SEN listeners said that of all the finals teams, Hawthorn supporters were the most arrogant. Geelong was second, but there was a massive gap.

In life, we can all believe what we want to believe, or take facts.

Facts are that Ablett was the best this year (proven by his Grand Final performance), Hawthorn played best on the big day, and there are 14 other clubs who wanted to be where both Geelong and Hawthorn were.

You won't see a performance like Ablett Snr. in a Grand Final ever again. He was on the best full back of the time (Langford) in the second half and part of the second quarter and had Langford not done such a good job, Ablett would have ended up with 11 or 12 (Langford out-positioned Ablett many times, and affected many spoils).

Ablett has been frustrated by umpire's voting in the Brownlow the last two years. It's proven inconsistent, but to a point, I do not think he should worry so much about individual awards as ultimately, the premiership is what it's all about.

And in the case of the AFL having balls, look up Neil Sasche or Blake Caracella.

[Craig]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter who's arrogant, who cried for whatever reason, if Buddy was well held. Because

Hawthorn are PREMIERS in 2008 and you can't change that.

Luke Hodge certainly deserved the Norm Smith because he played better than Ablett. Watch the game again and you will see the possesions of both players and Hodges were far more effective and damaging. Anyone can get the ball and run with it and pass it to another player but not everyone can stop forwards and then get the ball to a team mate accross half back and run it forward. Hodge is the master of that half back line even better than Chris Mew and that's saying something.

We're a happy team at Hawthorn that's what i'm talking about.......

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by FordFella

Get some balls and follow NRL.


If only the NRL were as smart as the AFL, THINK OF WHERE WE COULD BE NOW

If only indeed...