According to Drive Ranger XL and XLS are not selling?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

You are both onto something there.

Over the decades, Ford US management, either posted here in Australia or based at head office in the US, insisted on certain directions in relation to model choice, powertrain engineering, styling ect. Almost always, these people had absolutely no knowledge of the Australian market, forcing the local management team to prove their side of the story. In other words, Ford US told the local team what Australian customers wanted rather than listening to the local team about what customers actually wanted.

Example - 1997 Taurus.

Ford AUS - "We need funds to further develop the Falcon platform for a new generation."

Ford USA - "Why develop another Falcon when we already have a large sedan that you could simply start manufacturing without an extensive engineering campaign or tooling."

Ford AUS - "That model is too narrow for Australian tastes, is front wheel drive which is perceived negatively by customers and compromises towing ability. The powertrain also lacks torque for towing and general Australian driving."

Ford USA - "The Taurus is an already developed model and would require less investment. Customers will adapt to the perceived drawbacks".

Ford AUS - "We loose customers to a key rival with that model, we can develop a new generation Falcon and put it into production for half the price it would be to tool up for an existing model in our plants."

Ford USA - "Prove it! In the meantime, we will send you Taurus sedans to sell alongside the Falcon to prove our point."

Ford AUS - "No problem.........."

The end result? Australia got a new generation Falcon, developed at a fraction of the cost of a Taurus. Meanwhile, the Taurus bombed and sold two fifths of fu.k all.

I can name a number of other similar instances, XK Falcon, AU Falcon styling, V6 engines...........you get the point. So much internal self-sabotage and we-know-better mentality ends up costing Ford more than it saves.

Lol, you just summed up my attitude towards the company and things I've said many times over the years.
They just dont rate us which is kind of insulting when you consider we delivered some of the best cars the brand has seen worldwide when left to our own devices.

Problem is there's an awful lot of apologists, that in being so, have convinced the masses that near enough is good enough or that the top office knows best.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s a false equivalence though, the commodore was a predominantly V6 based product
where as the new Ranger V6 diesel first time out was supposed to be the premium engine.
Not excusing Ford here but they must have sensed that the V6 would be a huge success…
Mind you this was the same company complaining that Aussie buyers were too capacity oriented
while trying to push the 2.0 biturbo diesel, so maybe still holding onto incorrect ideas.

Not if you read the market, do you really need to be told that Aussies like performance with a serve of bling.
And they'll happily pay you overs for it.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Well, mercedes tried that with the failure that was the x clasd. So yeah a rebadge of the nissan np300 navara and there was a pov spec single cab. Seen a few pov spec x class utes when new, but only out the front of the mercedes comercial dealership. I see the odd np300 navara on the roads, more d40s but still not many in comparison to the older d22 navaras. Dont see a huge amount of those either. Granted the d22 is now an old ute.
So i think mb went too hard too soon, which is a tad odd as vito's and sprinter vans are a common sight.
Cannot see vw getting a market share with the amarok. Partially due to the badge sharing with the current ranger and simply buyer perception. Badge sharing worked quite well with say the bt50 and ranger back then.

Amarok has never been a high seller anyway. They will be premium priced over Ranger too.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yes, but Toyota one comes with tray for $32K DA.

See why we need the single cab on the website?



Then why even make one at all? Just dedicate the entire production line to Raptor and Wildtrack.

They must have made XL/XLS for a reason, you can't say they spent the time/money making them, then turn around and say nah they take away production capacity from our more profitable models so we won't make them.

Doesn't make sense to me, maybe they have a problem of not enough production capacity and they need more people and real estate.

I'm sure South Africa can make some of our Rangers for us, they made my Focus.

The base models are needed for government sales and fleet orders. Probably very few private buyers, so they would be the lowest profit utes they sell. Hence the lack of desire to sell a heap of them, when they can sell tonnes of high profit top spec models to private buyers.

The answer to the question is always $$$$$$, it's not hard to figure this out.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, you just summed up my attitude towards the company and things I've said many times over the years.
They just dont rate us which is kind of insulting when you consider we delivered some of the best cars the brand has seen worldwide when left to our own devices.

Problem is there's an awful lot of apologists, that in being so, have convinced the masses that near enough is good enough or that the top office knows best.

It's not just Ford, it's American's in general.

I have had a lot of interaction with American's over the years and a pattern started to emerge pretty quickly. To put in bluntly, they seem to think we are all just fools down here. Overall, they are just oblivious to the world around them.

[Hulsty]

I've been working with some people in USA and Mexico, literally they were perplexed when I said I was in a different time zone and no I could not attended the 3am meeting.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Hmm I just bought an XL Super cab.

Base model 4x2 single Turbo in Grey. Came in at $54k..... What a joke!

The tray alone was nearly 7k tho, plus factory towbar with brake controller $1800, XLT side steps $1200 and a set of Wildtrak wheels $1200. I also added all plastics etc. It replaced a 2018 4x2 super cab which I just sold for 40k, so not too bad for at $14k change over I guess??

Would have been roughly 12k more for a 4x4 in the same guise with the Bi turbo. I just couldn't justify it or the wait.

[DFB FGXR6]

A lot in this thread has referenced the very entry level single cab chassis and 4x2 models, in particular Ford not wanting to pursue this end of the market due to lower profit margins.

Changing tact here, lets compare RRP's on base model 4x4 double-cab pickups, all automatic, all in white and no options.

Ford Ranger XL Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Single Turbo Auto - $55,051

https://www.ford.com.au/buy/build-an...=3CQZHincluded

Nissan Navara SL Dual Cab 4x4 2.3 Auto - $50,657

https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/b...ry/BAEl/A-ZRng

Mitsubishi Triton GLX Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $48,240

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au...on=MR4W47-2023

Toyota Hilux Workmate Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $53,396

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/prices

Isuzu DMAX Double Cab SX 4x4 1.9 Auto - $55,197

https://www.isuzuute.com.au/build-an...ral-White/None

GWM Cannon Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Auto - $38,990

https://www.gwmhaval.com.au/config?model=ute

LDV don't have a build and price section, but the cheapest auto T60 is $43,148.
https://www.ldvautomotive.com.au/price/

The one that surprises me is the DMAX, so expensive for the 1.9 engine. The BT-50 is likewise as expensive.

But...................how is it determined that Ford are not reaping profits from a $55,000 base model 4X4 double cab?

Don't get me wrong, the Ranger is THE segment leader in most aspects, but its clear why Ford have excess stock of XL and XLS models............they are just too expensive for what they are.

[naddis01]

Reading through those prices above, it struck me what good value the Ranger is compared to much of its opposition despite the higher price.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Reading through those prices above, it struck me what good value the Ranger is compared to much of its opposition despite the higher price.

Better value than?

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The BT-50 is likewise as expensive.

.

Mate, I've cleaned My Glasses Twice & still can't see The Mazda BT50 Listed in your Post...??

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Mate, I've cleaned My Glasses Twice & still can't see The Mazda BT50 Listed in your Post...??

I didn't link it in my original post. This is the cheapest base 4x4 double cab -

Mazda BT50 XT Double Cab 4x4 3.0 Auto - $57,961

https://www.mazda.com.au/build/bt-50...DesignCode=ZEW

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Better value than?

These...

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A lot in this thread has referenced the very entry level single cab chassis and 4x2 models, in particular Ford not wanting to pursue this end of the market due to lower profit margins.

Changing tact here, lets compare RRP's on base model 4x4 double-cab pickups, all automatic, all in white and no options.

Ford Ranger XL Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Single Turbo Auto - $55,051

https://www.ford.com.au/buy/build-an...=3CQZHincluded

Nissan Navara SL Dual Cab 4x4 2.3 Auto - $50,657

https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/b...ry/BAEl/A-ZRng

Mitsubishi Triton GLX Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $48,240

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au...on=MR4W47-2023

Toyota Hilux Workmate Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $53,396

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/prices

Isuzu DMAX Double Cab SX 4x4 1.9 Auto - $55,197

https://www.isuzuute.com.au/build-an...ral-White/None

GWM Cannon Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Auto - $38,990

https://www.gwmhaval.com.au/config?model=ute

LDV don't have a build and price section, but the cheapest auto T60 is $43,148.
https://www.ldvautomotive.com.au/price/

The one that surprises me is the DMAX, so expensive for the 1.9 engine. The BT-50 is likewise as expensive.

But...................how is it determined that Ford are not reaping profits from a $55,000 base model 4X4 double cab?

Don't get me wrong, the Ranger is THE segment leader in most aspects, but its clear why Ford have excess stock of XL and XLS models............they are just too expensive for what they are.

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I didn't link it in my original post. This is the cheapest base 4x4 double cab -

Mazda BT50 XT Double Cab 4x4 3.0 Auto - $57,961

https://www.mazda.com.au/build/bt-50...DesignCode=ZEW

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by naddis01

These...

I get that the Ranger is very well specified at the bottom of the range, but apart from the BT50/DMAX twins, its more expensive than its competition.

Buyers take one look at the price and move on, be that fleet, government or private customers. Ford are simply being crossed off the list at first glance. If you are not brand loyal like I am or not are inclined to pour over each and every specification, then you are just not looking at Ford at this end of the market.

[Franco Cozzo]

With the prices being thrown around here for povvo spec 4x2 work vehicles it just about puts you in Isuzu truck territory.

Yes I know they drive like absolute trash but Isuzu has been marketing the hell out of those things to the LCV market and made all these little option packs to suit various needs.

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16699032

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969573

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969571

They've got stuff like PTOs et al

Westar Trucks should partner up with Bras n Things to get you in for a free sizing and fitment on a suitable sports bra on every purchase of one of those trucks, if you're a fat bastard like me, to keep your manboobs from hitting you in the face every time you drive those things.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

With the prices being thrown around here for povvo spec 4x2 work vehicles it just about puts you in Isuzu truck territory.

Yes I know they drive like absolute trash but Isuzu has been marketing the hell out of those things to the LCV market and made all these little option packs to suit various needs.

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16699032

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969573

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969571

They've got stuff like PTOs et al

Westar Trucks should partner up with Bras n Things to get you in for a free sizing and fitment on a suitable sports bra on every purchase of one of those trucks, if you're a fat bastard like me, to keep your manboobs from hitting you in the face every time you drive those things.

Just so we are clear, those prices I quoted a couple of posts ago are for base model 4x4 Double Cabs.

[Swordie]

Ssangyong are also doing $38,790 drive away on a 4x4 dual cab ute with 7yr warranty and unlimited warranty. That's a competitive price and warranty compared to the Chinese models.

https://ssangyong.com.au/models/musso

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Swordie

Ssangyong are also doing $38,790 drive away on a 4x4 dual cab ute with 7yr warranty and unlimited warranty. That's a competitive price and warranty compared to the Chinese models.

https://ssangyong.com.au/models/musso

Yeah, But what are the Chances of Ssangyong still existing in 7 yrs Time..??

Google them, They're as Broke as the Ten Commandments..!!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A lot in this thread has referenced the very entry level single cab chassis and 4x2 models, in particular Ford not wanting to pursue this end of the market due to lower profit margins.

Changing tact here, lets compare RRP's on base model 4x4 double-cab pickups, all automatic, all in white and no options.

Ford Ranger XL Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Single Turbo Auto - $55,051

https://www.ford.com.au/buy/build-an...=3CQZHincluded

Nissan Navara SL Dual Cab 4x4 2.3 Auto - $50,657

https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/b...ry/BAEl/A-ZRng

Mitsubishi Triton GLX Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $48,240

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au...on=MR4W47-2023

Toyota Hilux Workmate Double Cab 4x4 2.4 Auto - $53,396

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/prices

Isuzu DMAX Double Cab SX 4x4 1.9 Auto - $55,197

https://www.isuzuute.com.au/build-an...ral-White/None

GWM Cannon Double Cab 4x4 2.0 Auto - $38,990

https://www.gwmhaval.com.au/config?model=ute

LDV don't have a build and price section, but the cheapest auto T60 is $43,148.
https://www.ldvautomotive.com.au/price/

The one that surprises me is the DMAX, so expensive for the 1.9 engine. The BT-50 is likewise as expensive.

But...................how is it determined that Ford are not reaping profits from a $55,000 base model 4X4 double cab?

Don't get me wrong, the Ranger is THE segment leader in most aspects, but its clear why Ford have excess stock of XL and XLS models............they are just too expensive for what they are.

I'd probably lean towards the Triton and upspec to GLX/R and use the chanhe for accessories.
Its no Ranger but its tried and proven and well appointed for the coin compared.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Swordie

Ssangyong are also doing $38,790 drive away on a 4x4 dual cab ute with 7yr warranty and unlimited warranty. That's a competitive price and warranty compared to the Chinese models.

https://ssangyong.com.au/models/musso

Yeah but have a look at the thing.

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by franco cozzo

yes, but toyota one comes with tray for $32k da.

See why we need the single cab on the website?

1. Cost of getting a genuine tray fitted isn't worth it.
2. Getting a genuine tray fitted takes too long.
3. Customers want too many different things on their bodies and its just easier to bring them in without a tray

Originally Posted by franco cozzo

Then why even make one at all? Just dedicate the entire production line to Raptor and Wildtrack.

Its up to the dealer on how many single cabs they order, not Ford.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Swordie

Ssangyong are also doing $38,790 drive away on a 4x4 dual cab ute with 7yr warranty and unlimited warranty. That's a competitive price and warranty compared to the Chinese models.

https://ssangyong.com.au/models/musso

They have made vast improvements with the looks of these things.
But - they still look terrible.

I don't care how cheap it is.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

They have made vast improvements with the looks of these things.
But - they still look terrible.

I don't care how cheap it is.

Looks a little better than the current Triton thats for sure for me.....TBH its better tahn I expected having seen it for the first time.
Korean made is big plus compared to Thai specials
Be interesting its longivity but 7yr WTY you'd flip it or extend for some I guess.
The Ford/Toys are way over priced but the market pays.
My nephew got a top of the line Cannon few months back, friggin nice interior.
Having had Rodeo's Hilux's he loves it.

[Gumboot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

With the prices being thrown around here for povvo spec 4x2 work vehicles it just about puts you in Isuzu truck territory.

Yes I know they drive like absolute trash but Isuzu has been marketing the hell out of those things to the LCV market and made all these little option packs to suit various needs.

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16699032

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969573

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16969571

They've got stuff like PTOs et al

Westar Trucks should partner up with Bras n Things to get you in for a free sizing and fitment on a suitable sports bra on every purchase of one of those trucks, if you're a fat bastard like me, to keep your manboobs from hitting you in the face every time you drive those things.

image

Same thing is happening with the bigger 4WD utes. People are now buying the Isuzu NPS 75/155 with tray and super singles, suspension etc from places like all terrain warriors which is cheaper than a decked out Toyota 70 series.
Tows 4.5 tonne , much bigger payload, seats 6, light truck reliability and everything is beefier. Yes it’s not as comfortable but so much more room and I see so many of these 4WDing now.

[BENT_8]

My Brother bought the current Ssangyong 12 months ago to tow his 3t van, no trouble at all so far.
Mate around the corner bought a new GWM just after we considered one and decided on a used Ranger for same coin, again, he's had no trouble at all and with almost 3k to spend on negating the EGR cooler failure possibility, a catch can, intake clean, new glow plugs and tune on the used Ranger, Im starting to think the GWM with warranty would have been the better buy for the k's im doing.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

My Brother bought the current Ssangyong 12 months ago to tow his 3t van, no trouble at all so far.
Mate around the corner bought a new GWM just after we considered one and decided on a used Ranger for same coin, again, he's had no trouble at all and with almost 3k to spend on negating the EGR cooler failure possibility, a catch can, intake clean, new glow plugs and tune on the used Ranger, Im starting to think the GWM with warranty would have been the better buy for the k's im doing.

You are better off with the ranger and there was no real reason to do those mods to the ranger.
I still have my 2012 XLT ranger since new with no mods despite what I have read over the years.
Cheers

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not if you read the market, do you really need to be told that Aussies like performance with a serve of bling.
And they'll happily pay you overs for it.

Sure, you say that now but five years ago, people were scoffing at a $60,000 Ranger,
Look where we are now and how sure of itself is with +$90,000 Ranger Raptor.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You are better off with the ranger and there was no real reason to do those mods to the ranger.
I still have my 2012 XLT ranger since new with no mods despite what I have read over the years.
Cheers

And if the cooler fails tomorrow, you're up for more than that.
Removing the need for it eliminates the possibility and results in a cleaner engine with lower running temps.
Its no different to a heat exchanger on a Falcon, may never fail, but those that did cost owners thousands of dollars more than bypassing it in favor of an air/oil cooler.

[simon varley]

except. technically. that's illegal

but that's up to you

[jpd80]

Sorry, off topic.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by simon varley

except. technically. that's illegal if you get caught

but that's up to you and the thousands of other people who have had it done

fixed.