First Chinese Cars Entering Australia

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Magna

believe it or not the X240 just scored 4 stars but wheres the media making a fuss over that!

http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/_...l.php?IID=3007

not saying if its good or bad but its certainly an improvement.

The media made a fuss of it when the Hybrid camry only received 4 stars.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0430-tywy.html

10 new Chinese brands for Australia
TOBY HAGON AND BRUCE NEWTON
April 30, 2010

The number of car brands on sale in Australia could surge by 25 per cent within a few years if more than 10 Chinese car brands fulfill their aspirations of selling cars here.

Australian car buyers could have 10 new brands to choose from within two years with more than a dozen Chinese vehicle manufacturers working on an Australian export program.

The influx of unknown Chinese brands is unprecedented in number but follows a trend forged by Japanese and Korean car makers to use the Australian market as a test bed for western tastes, before tackling the giant US and European markets.

Most Chinese cars headed to Australia are likely to be small cars or four-wheel-drive-style wagons - two of the most popular new-car segments - but they have the potential to change the dynamic of the new-car market.

"If you underestimate the Chinese you will pay a price," said former Holden executive Kevin Wale, the man now in charge of General Motors' flourishing Chinese operations.

"The Chinese manufacturers are growing in capability every day and history tells you that if you underestimate the Japanese or the Koreans you pay the price."

China is now the world's biggest consumer of new cars, beating the US market in 2009 by buying more than $13 million new cars. There are more than 40 new-car brands.

Great Wall Motors was the first Chinese brand to arrive here last year and will be followed this year by Chery, one of China's five big car makers. They're set to be joined soon after by the new owner of Volvo, Geely.

Others hoping to ship cars to Australia include unknowns such as Chana, Dongfeng, Zotye, Gonow, Roewe, Hawtai and BYD, the latter planning to topple Toyota by 2025 as the world's biggest car maker. One, Lifan, is even looking at assembling cars in Australia.

"It may make more sense economically to assemble the cars in Australia than just import them," Lifan assistant general Igor Tan told Drive.

All up more than 10 brands told Drive they either had firm plans or were canvassing export partners with a view to selling cars here by 2012.

The managing director of Ateco, already importing two Chinese brands and looking at more, says the imminent influx isn't a surprise.

"It's an invaluable test market if you want to sell in Europe or North America," said Ric Hull. "It will probably push the Koreans [car makers] upmarket, who in turn will keep pushing the Japanese further upmarket."

Like it's done with consumer electronics, the Chinese look set to lower prices, exerting pressure on the lower end of the market in much the same way Hyundai did in the 1990s.

"It will possibly have its major impact on the used-car market," said Hull. "People then face a very simple choice, do you buy a car with a three-year warranty behind it or do you buy a used car."

Pricing could be 10 or 20 per cent lower than other similar vehicles on the market - and with additional equipment.

"If the Koreans don't have alloy wheels, we'll do alloy wheels," said Dinnesh Chinnappa, Ateco's general manager of new ventures, talking about how the company's Chinese brands - Chery and Great Wall - will get traction.

Currently Chinese car makers are predominantly producing regular petrol- and diesel-engined vehicles, but many are investing hundreds of millions in electric and hybrid vehicles.

BYD is one of the world's largest battery producers and only started building cars in 2003; last year it produced almost half a million vehicles.

Australian importers have their eyes on some of the Chinese electric vehicles, with Ateco considering various options.

"We want to have an electric car in 2011," said Ateco's governing director Neville Crichton, signaling a target price of $25,000. "We're very confident we will."

The Chinese makers have been criticised for building cars with sub-standard safety and quality, but already it's improving exponentially.

"They know they have to learn, but they are quick learners," said GM's Wale. "We just have to be conscious that while they might stumble a few times and some will fall, at least some of them will learn from their mistakes and be successful in Australia."

Despite a disappointing two-star ANCAP rating for one of its utes last year, Great Wall recently scored four stars (out of five) for its X240 four-wheel-drive.

The vice president of Chery, Biren Zhou, said the company takes safety very seriously and will work to improve all aspects of its vehicles.

"We will make the improvement in the shortest period of time," said Zhou. "When the date [of the first Chery ANCAP crash test] is determined I think we need to arrange [to send] engineers to Australia."

Lifan's assistant general, Tan, said: "We want to improve our quality because we know the Australian market has really high expectations for quality.

"We will provide good quality and safety."

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0429-tw82.html

Take Chinese seriously: GM exec
BRUCE NEWTON
April 29, 2010



Former Holden executive and the man in charge of General Motors' Chinese operations says the arrival of up to a dozen new brands will shake up the new-car market.

Cashed-up from booming sales in their home market and hungry to grow their exports, many Chinese car makers are planning to conquer the Australian market. But most will fail.

That's the prediction of Kevin Wale, the Australian-born former Holden executive who now runs General Motors' flourishing Chinese operations.

At the same time Wale, who has run GM China since 2005, warned that anyone who under-estimated the capability and determination of the Chinese manufacturers did so at their peril.

"The Chinese manufacturers are growing in capability every day and history tells you that if you under-estimate the Japanese or the Koreans you pay the price. If you underestimate the Chinese you will pay a price," he told Drive on the Chevrolet stand at the Beijing motor show last week.

"The differences between the Koreans and the Chinese is you are going to get a lot of people wanting to come (to Australia) and they are not all going to succeed. You will have some succeed over time and a lot who will try and fail because the market is just not big enough down there."

Wale refused to nominate which of the many ambitious Chinese brands already in the Australian market, or looking to go there, would succeed.

Ateco Automotive was first on-sale with Great Wall Motors and soon introduces Chery. WA-based Chinese Automotive Distributors is soon test-marketing the Geely MK small car in Western Australia ahead of a national launch in the first half of 2011.

Others looking to come in the near future include Lifan, Hawtai, BYD, Haima, Gonow, Brilliance, Dongfeng, Chana, SAIC and others are less advanced in their planning but have Australia as an export target.

Wale predicted a big issue for them all will be the similar nature of their product lineups, which are aimed at the entry-level where price counts more than quality.

"Their product strategy is to get in at the bottom and grow and nearly all of them have exactly the same strategy. They are going to want to have distributors who support them through that phase," he explained.

"But there are only so many market opportunities in that area and only so many companies and distributors who can get enough volume to justify what they are doing."

Considering the Australian market is only middling in size at around one million sales per annum the Chinese desire to get into Australia ahead of potentially more lucrative markets such as North America and western Europe might seem perplexing, but Wale understands the motivation.

"It's the easiest entry to western standards," he said. "Japan and Korea did exactly the same thing. They are able to test western tastes, able to understand western after-service requirements, they learn western marketing techniques.

"But in world terms it is not a huge investment. It's a controlled experiment, so if you can master Australia you've got a basis to move forward to the US and European markets.

"It's an evolution. Once you do some work in China and you do some work in third world countries and you want to progress up the food chain, the easiest western market to try is Australia."

While the learning curve will be steep for Chinese brands as they venture into sophisticated markets, Wale predicted the best of them will quickly learn the lessons required to bridge the various gaps to established brands.

"They have access to any technology anyone else has because they can buy it from any supplier. All suppliers are willing to sell to them. They can hire good people if they choose to do that. They have good young talent because it is a young industry with lots of well-educated people. And they have enough money to test the market, they are not going to run out of money having a crack at it.

"They know they have to learn, but they are quick learners. We just have to be conscious that while they might stumble a few times and some will fall, at least some of them will learn from their mistakes and be successful in Australia. Have no doubt about that."

Wale says the onrushing Chinese tidal wave of product should be fought using the fundamentals that always deliver sustainable success in the car industry: "Whether it is Australia, China or the US, in order to win you need the best product and deliver the best customer service."

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0503-u3hn.html

Tradies won't buy Chinese utes
RICHARD BLACKBURN
May 3, 2010

The boss of Isuzu says ute buyers will shy away from Chinese and Indian utes, despite their attractive price tags.

Hitoshi Kono, the local boss of the Japanese commercial vehicle specialist, says loyalty to established brands and question marks about the reliability of the Chinese and Indian utes will limit their success in the Australian market.

He says the arrival of sharply priced work utes from India's Mahindra and China's Great Wall Motors will have "almost no impact" on Isuzu ute sales.

"They are more targeting the used car business is what I'm hearing from our dealers," Mr Kono says.

He claims ute buyers place a lot of emphasis on reliability and are loyal to brands that have served them well in the past.

"We are selling a lot of high-end vehicles and a lot of customers see the value of the product in terms of the trust they have in the brand. We have a rock solid brand in the truck business and we get a lot of mileage out of that," he says.

Isuzu launched its own range of D-Max work utes in Australia in October 2008. Until then the brand had merely supplied the D-Max to Holden, which re-branded the ute as the Rodeo.

Kono says that despite launching the vehicle at the "worst possible time" - the beginning of the global financial crisis - the maker has built a solid following in the local market.

Isuzu sold 3566 vehicles last year and Kono says the brand has captured a higher percentage of private buyers than its rivals.

Typically, only one-in-five ute buyers are retail customers, but Isuzu's sales are split 60:40 between private and fleet buyers.
As a result, resale values for the brand are better than rivals, Kono claims.

Kono says Isuzu is looking to double its share of the ute market by increasing its dealer network, particularly in Sydney, where it has just two dealers.

A bigger dealer network will allow the company to compete more aggressively for fleet business, Kono says.

Kono is full of praise for the federal government's response to the global financial crisis, saying that tax breaks for fleet vehicle buyers had helped it to overcome a difficult start in the Australian market.

"We had a very tough time at first, but thanks to the Government support, we finished the year [2009] quite strongly," he says.

He says that while overseas offices of the company were talking about a global "meltdown", in Australia "nothing happened really".

"If anyone wants to complain about the Australian government, they can take the Japanese government," he says.

He says the market has remained strong in 2010 despite the end of the government tax breaks, with Isuzu ute sales almost doubling in the first three months of this year.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0429-tw7j.html

Chinese car maker could build cars in Australia
BRUCE NEWTON
May 2, 2010

Fledgling Chinese car brand Lifan will soon sell cars in Australia and could eventually assemble cars locally.

The small Chinese car manufacturer Lifan Motors has revealed it is considering local assembly as a strategy to gain better sales acceptance in Australia.

The Chongqing-based company is currently in negotiation with several potential distributors to set up an Australian dealer network to sell imported cars, but says it may move to local assembly in the future in the form of semi-knocked down kits (SKD).

"We have discussed SKD plans in the Australian market, build the body in China and import it to Australia", Lifan assistant general Igor Tan told Drive during an exclusive interview at Auto China in Beijing last week."

However, he would not give any sort of timeline for Lifan's plans: "We are wanting to have our cars in Australia but a date is not confirmed.

Setting up local assembly would be true to form for Lifan, which has followed that model in some of the developing markets it has so far established outside China. However, Australia is an established market with relatively low import tariffs and high labour costs, and auto manufacturing is struggling to survive.

"It may make more sense economically to assemble the cars in Australia than just import them," explained Tan "And doing the SKD in Australia it may be much more acceptable to the people than just a completed car.

"SKD would also make the after-sales much more convenient."

Tan said the SKD plan was at such an early stage there had been no investigation of potential government support or assembly plant locations. A study trip to Australia may take place as soon as June.

Lifan is a minnow by Chinese standards, selling only 60,000 cars in 2009. It aims to grow to 100,000 in 2010, with exports accounting for more than 20 per cent of that.

The only attention Lifan has gained in Australia previously has been for its 320 model, a mini-car derided for being obviously inspired by the Mini Cooper - Chinese car makers regularly copy other marques' designs - except for the fact it has five rather than three doors.

Lifan is only one of many Chinese brands planning an Australian assault. But is one important step ahead of many of them because its Toyota Yaris-sized 520 sedan and hatch has already gained Australian Design Rule (ADR) approval for local sale.

Back in 2008 it looked like Lifan would be the first Chinese brand onto the Australian market with the 520, but that plan was scuppered by the GFC.

Instead Ateco Automotive launched Great Wall Motors last June and will soon introduce Chery.

Meanwhile, Perth-based Chinese Automotive Distributors is test marketing the Geely MK small car in WA.

The 320 would be the second Lifan homologated for the Australian market, Tan said, while a new compact SUV launched at the Beijing show would be considered also. The other model in Lifan's passenger car lineup is the Toyota Corolla-sized 620 sedan.

Tan said there were several motivations for selling cars in Australia.

"Firstly, we want to improve our quality because we know the Australian market has really high expectations for quality. Secondly, getting involved in the Australian market can lead to a better future for Lifan through our co-operation with dealers.

"We want to be well respected in the automobile industry in Australia."

Nevertheless Tan confirmed the primary initial sales strategy would be pricing, under-cutting even the Korean competition.

"But only on price," he said. "We will provide good quality and safety."

[G6E Turbo 2]

Anyone got any idea why ANY Government in Australia would think it makes sense
to have more and more makes and models of cars being imported into our Country
to systematically Root the car Industry we are trying desperatley to keep
in tack

Got me stuffed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **************

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by G6E Turbo 2

Anyone got any idea why ANY Government in Australia would think it makes sense
to have more and more makes and models of cars being imported into our Country
to systematically Root the car Industry we are trying desperatley to keep
in tack

Got me stuffed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **************

Its called free trade. It adds to choice, innovation, competition and the correct allocation of resources. Without it, you would be paying $60,000 for your commodore, Falcon or Camry, and $20,000 of each car sold would be flying back to the pockets of General Motors and Ford in the US, and Toyota.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Its called free trade. It adds to choice, innovation, competition and the correct allocation of resources. Without it, you would be paying $60,000 for your commodore, Falcon or Camry, and $20,000 of each car sold would be flying back to the pockets of General Motors and Ford in the US, and Toyota.

Why would we be paying $60,000 - Where do you get this from????

interesting point
In 1971 you could buy a Falcon GT-HO for what $4500? the average weekly wage in 1971 was $90 per week - therefore less than one years salary equals a GT HO. 2010 the average wage is less than $70,000 and new GT P will set you back $80,000 By that reasoning we could argue that we had things better in 1971 (meaning cars were cheaper - before imports and free trade)

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Its called free trade. It adds to choice, innovation, competition and the correct allocation of resources. Without it, you would be paying $60,000 for your commodore, Falcon or Camry, and $20,000 of each car sold would be flying back to the pockets of General Motors and Ford in the US, and Toyota.

No, it would like the XF where the price of a Falcon would match a light hatch, as there would be less pressure to match other cars for equipment and price.

[bobthebilda]

Theres no doubt that you get a lot more bang for your buck these days. Manufacturers often add more into a car each year, and the prices are staying steady, or creeping down, thus it would be hard to compare apples with apples from yesteryear to today. But for example, as the following example (using a more common car than a GT-P)
http://www.used-car.com.au/australia/holden-cars.html

The VN commodore in 1988 went for $20000 (plus I am gonna add $3000 for all the charges they slap on as in 1988 there was no driveaway price)
and as per the following ABS site
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/free.nsf/0/7683B15D189330BACA2574FF0018D114/$File/63020_AUG1988.pdf,
the average wage was approx $500 per week ($410 per week clear) = $26000 per year ($21320 clear)
in 1988 wage =$26000 ($21320) car =$23000 almost a one for one basis. I think in 1988 the import duty on a car was approx 50%, so the local manufacturers had that much buffer on importers.

You can now pick up a commodore for $36000 drive away, and the average wage is around $60000. However if the local manufacturers had a the extra 45% buffer of import duties (50% in 1988, now only 5%), then they could effectively add approx $16000 to the price of a commodore.

If the average family car was selling for over $50,000 (and the average small car $30000), then there would be alot less new cars on the road, alot less people selling cars, alot less people fixing cars, alot less people employed in the car industry. There may be more people making cars in australia (altho maybe not as they would be more expensive), but that would not make up the difference.

[SB076]

From your link we can also compare a HQ (price of $2730 from your link) compared to 1971 wage of $90 per week (or $4680 pa) or basically 58% of the average workers salary.

Now look at the VE at $36,000 compared to $60,000 or basically 60% of the average workers salary.

All I am suggesting is that there is no way we could possibly determine the cost of a Falcon or Commodore if free trade didnt exist. I am not against free trade however I do beleive that other nations protect there trade and industries and see no reason why Australia shouldnt.

I have been lucky(?) enough to go through various local Automotive plants and various manufacturing plants overseas and my personal beleif is that the local guys do a great job. They face different and unique challenges compared to there overseas counter parts.

[robbyg]

Originally Posted by G6E Turbo 2

Anyone got any idea why ANY Government in Australia would think it makes sense
to have more and more makes and models of cars being imported into our Country
to systematically Root the car Industry we are trying desperatley to keep
in tack

Got me stuffed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **************

Mate i have no idea, poeple with a bit of common sense should be able to work that this country cannot sustain a flood of forieign imports whilst keeping local manufacturing profitable for car makers. I suppose when a lot of australians are made redundent when the last real manufacturing companys left in this country, are forsed to go offshore the penny may drop, but its not going to happen sometimes common sense is not so common.

[vztrt]

Chinese car-makers coming ready or not

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25773B000A1620

Subaru warns that well-resourced Chinese will rapidly carve out market slice
7 June 2010
By PHILIP LORD
THE long-term influence of Chinese car-makers on the Australian market should not be underestimated, Subaru Australia says.

Managing director Nick Senior said: “The Chinese are coming, and in an increasingly crowded market, with $12-$13,000 cars.

“I would not dismiss it outright, but we would have a bigger opportunity in the short-term to grow our small car sales (than compete in the light-car segment).”

Mr Senior said the impact of Chinese manufacturers would be felt more rapidly than the Korean invasion.

“Hyundai were here in an ad-hoc way, and it was not really a serious effort until about 1993, and then when they put the Excel out there at $13,990,” he said.

“They really went well. They got traction, sales and market share. They’ve grown the brand as well – so it’s taken them 18 years.

“I don’t think it’ll take the Chinese 18 years to have a significant presence here.

“They’ve got the resources, they’ve got the (domestic) market that will help them amortise costs to put into R&D, and I’ve got a feeling that the Chinese are little bit more sales and marketing savvy than some of the other Asian competitors.

“Also, we’re seeing first-generation cars come – or at least first-generation for us – and I think by the second or third-generation cars, they are going to get some real impetus.”

Mr Senior said Subaru would not lose sales in the short term, but the threat of Chinese – and Korean – manufacturers one day offering the right product to lure away Subaru customers was top of mind.

“Today it is not significant to us, but sure, we’ve got to watch them as we have to watch the Koreans grow over time, and to say they’re not a competitor in the medium term is a head-in-the-sand response.”

Meanwhile, Mr Senior said continued bad economic news, including European debt and mortgage-rate rises, had discouraged private buyers to open their cheque books earlier this year.

“The European crisis is a bit unsettling for the average Australian who reads about this sort of thing,” he said.

“What we’ve seen is private buyers haven’t returned to the market in the numbers that we’ve seen prior to the GFC.

“The very significant factor is that while the market is up 20 per cent, business sales are up 24 per cent while private sales are up only 14 per cent.”

Business buyers are returning to the market after delaying new fleet purchases during the GFC

But Subaru relies on private buyers for the bulk of its sales.

“For those buyers to return, we need them to be confident, we need a strong share market, we need their sentiment to be positive, and things like the thing in Europe don’t help – and there’s the rise in interest rates as well.

“Some of the business is performing really well, but where we’re not seeing it is with these private buyers and for a brand like us it is very much the private buyers.

“There’s still that nervousness out there – it’s astonishing to see the VFACTS coming out every month so strong.”

[ltd]

Don't overestimate the effect that the chinese will have on the locals either.
One group of customers that Gayly and Crashball won't win over, is the chinese themselves. Most of the chinese that are here and have money for buying cars are not born here, and therefore have an inherent distaste for communist China and the products it makes.
Sounds racist yes, but ask your local chinese fella what he thinks of products "Made in China". Usually it will be met with comments in the Australian vernacular of shhhh????
As for the young ABC's (Australian Born Chinese), they prefer Euro or Japanese.
It's a pretty big demographic.
I think there's going to be resistance to these cars more than Hyundai ever received, look at Kia, still hasn't taken off and they've brought out dozens of models. They even park those hideous looking souls strategically around the place but I'm yet to see one on the road. Further to that, when they have had success such as the Kia Carnival they've had an issue (head gaskets) and botched up the warranty claims for it inciting a groundswell of ill will toward Kia.
Finally, wasn't it parts outsourced to China that brought about the latest Toyota recall?

[JimNiki]

The main reason these cars are cheap(er) is because of the labour cost, but that's not the main reason. The main reason is that they haven't spent hundreds of millions in R&D. We have been a tier 1 supplier to the auto industry since 1934 and the labour portion would make a 10% swing at the most.

Poor R&D manifests itself in poor safety. I can't imagine a poor design accidentally making a vehicle safer for the occupants.

So Ford, GM and Toyota spend billions in R&D (inc govt grants) to make vehicles better and safer for us. Then we allow 2 star vehicles in to be sold. It just sends mixed messages. We're not a banana republic just yet Kevin. Maybe one day the way you're going.

[G6E Turbo 2]

Anyone got any idea why we need yet another make of car for sale
in this small car market
What a joke

[vztrt]

For a 'cheap' ute its not that cheap. Seeing as you can get a base model ranger for 1k more.

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0618-ykp8.html

Australia’s cheapest one-tonner MATT CAMPBELL
June 18, 2010 - 10:13AM

Great Wall Motors has released a new cab-chassis version of its V240 ute - and it’s the cheapest tray-back on the market.

Chinese manufacturer Great Wall Motors is set to broaden its appeal with the tradies after releasing its long-awaited single-cab ute.

Ateco Automotive – Australia’s Great Wall Motors importer and distributor – says there has been strong demand for the V240 single-cab ute, which will be on sale later this month from a very budget-friendly $17,990 drive-away.

Both the entry-level rear-wheel-drive model and the four-wheel-drive variant ($20,990 drive-away) will include a drop-side alloy tray, which in some cases can set utility buyers back an extra $2000. And it’s even a “proper one-tonner” according to Ateco, with a 1200kg payload for both models.

The V240 is powered by a 2.4-litre four-cylinder petrol engine matched to a five-speed manual gearbox.

Ateco says its fingers are crossed that the range will be bolstered by both turbo-diesel engines and automatic gearboxes by the end of this year, but they may not make it to Australia until early 2011.

The V240 single-cab gets the aforementioned alloy tray, air-conditioning, central locking, CD player and power mirrors, as well as some important additions like dual airbags and anti-lock brakes with electronic brake force distribution.

Though far from a sales showstopper like the Toyota HiLux (it was Australia’s highest selling vehicle in April), Great Wall’s range of utes have shown respectable sales results since going on sale in Australia almost one year ago.

Already there are 2777 Great Wall Motors utes in Australia, while the X240 four-wheel-drive that arrived after the utes has notched up 1527 sales, giving the first Chinese car brand to go on sale in Australia a respectable tally of 4304.

So far this year Great Wall Motors has Ateco says the utes are based on a value-for-money proposition, and the V240 single-cab does look to be a pretty well packaged vehicle for the price.

“The twin cab V240 has proven to be extremely reliable and very popular with a wide range of customers over the past year,” says Ric Hull, managing director of Ateco.

“We are optimistic that this very keenly priced single cab V240 will be embraced just as enthusiastically.”

[naddis01]

Can you get a Ranger for under $20k on the road?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Can you get a Ranger for under $20k on the road?

Actually I take that back. I can see its reasonably priced.

[ltd]

Can anyone afford to be seen in one of these things?
Not wishing to sound like some vainglorious twat, but if I turned up anywhere in one of these things I would expect people to think I'm a cheapskate who has no concern about mine/others safety (a perception). I'd also think women would find me even more repugnant and I'd take that stigma of being treasonous buying a chinese car.
Yes, this may be far from the truth but we're talking about a public so dumb, that some actually think Kim Jong Il comes from China.

[Pinch]

I have seen a few GWM utes in Sydney CBD lately. You have to be a real trainspotter to pick the dual cab - and then only really by the badge.

Plus I bought a Parsun outboard (Chinese made, Yamaha rip off) for my boat tender (15hp) late last year. Many people on the boat forums have been asking me about it (with a fair bit of animated debate) and to be honest I rate it hightly (as did a boat mag review). I am however a little dissapointed in the hugely expensive old-school ,proved-till-death Mercury I just bought for the big boat (always had Mercurys except for the Parsun which was part of a package). I know it is still running in, but even running in the Chinese Parsun felt a lot smoother and quieter with less vibration than the Merc.

I haven't bought a Chinese car, but wouldn't dimiss it out of hand either. I might need a new tow car soon too.

The old-school is changing. Paying 33% more does always deliver you 33% more these days.

Time will tell.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ltd

Can anyone afford to be seen in one of these things?
Not wishing to sound like some vainglorious twat, but if I turned up anywhere in one of these things I would expect people to think I'm a cheapskate who has no concern about mine/others safety (a perception). I'd also think women would find me even more repugnant and I'd take that stigma of being treasonous buying a chinese car.
Yes, this may be far from the truth but we're talking about a public so dumb, that some actually think Kim Jong Il comes from China.

But this is a car forum, we are a group of people who generally know a little more about cars than the average Joe.

Price is the driving force behind Great Wall vehicles. A 'new' ute, no matter what the stars / ratings / public perceptions are will always 'sound' much better than a '2nd hand' ute.

There are a large group of people who know or understand bugger all about cars. They start em, drive em and get em serviced when the logbook tells them to no questions asked. They have no clue of RWD / FWD pro's and con's nor do they care about where a vehicle came from. If it is cheap, does the job it will sell well. The original bubble shaped Excels proved this point.

Great Wall motors will sell very well as there is a ready market of people buying these utes already, or they wouldn't be investing in expanding their range.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

But this is a car forum, we are a group of people who generally know a little more about cars than the average Joe.

Price is the driving force behind Great Wall vehicles. A 'new' ute, no matter what the stars / ratings / public perceptions are will always 'sound' much better than a '2nd hand' ute.

There are a large group of people who know or understand bugger all about cars. They start em, drive em and get em serviced when the logbook tells them to no questions asked. They have no clue of RWD / FWD pro's and con's nor do they care about where a vehicle came from. If it is cheap, does the job it will sell well. The original bubble shaped Excels proved this point.

Great Wall motors will sell very well as there is a ready market of people buying these utes already, or they wouldn't be investing in expanding their range.

I see what you mean and I agree on the tradies perhaps but I'm also talking about an ever increasingly fashion and/or brand conscious group of people.
For example, for young women these days it seems to be a baby beemer or a VW golf. Third option is a Yaris. How much do women spend on fashionable items all because it has a big label on it like DIOR, or Dolce and Gabbana, or Fendi? It's not like the old days where people were just happy to have wheels, it seems that there are standards to be reached and in the great faux par war waged amongst GenY and GenZ for brand recognition and a perception of not being cheap, Great wall will be seen ostensibly as the "Target" of the automotive world.

[JimNiki]

Originally Posted by ltd

Great wall will be seen ostensibly as the "Target" of the automotive world.

If that's the case, then do not wash with hot water!
Do not mix washing cars with different colours.
Always was the white cars first
and whatever you do, NEVER try to spin dry, you'll blow the diff!

hehe.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by JimNiki

If that's the case, then do not wash with hot water!
Do not mix washing cars with different colours.
Always was the white cars first
and whatever you do, NEVER try to spin dry, you'll blow the diff!

hehe.

Brilliant

[vztrt]

Chinese close quality gap

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25774A0012DACF

Export quality almost within reach of Chinese car factories, survey shows

22 June 2010

By JOHN MELLOR

CHINESE car quality has improved dramatically in the past 10 years, according to data released to GoAuto by the world’s leading vehicle quality authority, J.D. Power and Associates.

Annual surveys of Chinese car owners show that Chinese car factories are fast catching on to the quality levels required to start exporting cars to western car markets in earnest.

The data shows two levels of quality – the cars made by domestic Chinese car-makers such as Chery, BYD and Great Wall and cars made in China by Japanese, European, Korean and US car companies in partnership with Chinese car-makers.

In terms of faults per 100 cars, Chinese domestic car-makers still lag well behind the quality of cars made by the foreign car makers – a clear indicator that the overseas car makers are bringing with them valuable vehicle production knowledge and transfer of technology.

But the gap between the domestic brands and the foreign brands is narrowing. Nor are the domestics chasing a stationary target with the data showing that the foreign car-makers are also squeezing increased quality out of their car factories as well.

In 2000, the Chinese domestic brands were throwing up 834 quality faults per 100 cars – a horrendous figure that would scare off the bravest of candidates seeking to export Chinese cars into Western car markets.

The foreign brands, at 438 faults per 100 cars, had half as many faults but still enough impediments to drive off any serious thoughts of sending these Chinese-made cars to the west.

At that time the gap between the domestic and foreign brands was a massive 396 faults per 100 cars which suggested that it would be a long time before the Chinese domestic brands would be any serious threat in Western markets.

But, in just two years, the Chinese domestic brands had more than halved their faults to 399 per 100 cars and had caught up to where the foreign brands had been just two years before. The foreign brands, meanwhile had improved to 246 faults per 100 cars.

So, in those two years to 2002, the gap between the Chinese domestics and the foreign brands had been closed from 396 faults per 100 cars to 153 faults per 100 cars.

From then on it became harder to make gains in the intervening years but, in the latest 2009 survey, the domestic Chinese car-makers were at 258 faults per 100 cars and the foreign brand car makers were at 142 faults for 100 cars. The gap between the two was 116 faults per 100 cars.

By comparing this data with J.D. Power surveys of US car buyers who bought US brands made in American car factories, the faults of the Chinese domestic brands in 2009 were still way off the scale. But the faults reported in the foreign brands made in China are roughly the equivalent to the faults reported by American car buyers in their domestic cars in 2002. This suggests that in 2009 the foreign brands made in China are about eight years behind the quality standards of the US car-makers in America.

But improvements since then show the gap by 2009 between the foreign cars made in China and US cars made in the US was just 30 faults per 100 cars or less than one fault per car difference.

This suggests that on quality at least, cars of foreign brands in China could just about be ready to hold their own in the US market, which would leave them not far behind for markets such as Australia.

In another key indicator that the Chinese car-makers are on a roll on car quality, J.D. Power reported that the number of Chinese car owners “experiencing problems with their vehicle since owning it” has dropped from almost 60 per cent in 2004 to 28 per cent in 2009.

[vztrt]

Get set for Chinese truck invasion

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25775A00110E10

Importers eye expansion into trucks from huge Chinese commercial vehicle industry

8 July 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

THE Chinese automotive invasion is set to step up a gear with at least two Australian distributors considering expansion into trucks made in the world’s biggest and fastest-growing motor market.

Vehicles ranging from utilities to eight-tonne trucks are under consideration from a number of Chinese manufacturers, one of which is sending a representative to discuss Australian market potential in August.

So far, Chinese imports have been restricted to a pair of utilities and an SUV from Great Wall Motors, with a flock of passenger cars in the pipeline from Chery and Geely.

But Australian vehicle importers Ateco Automotive and Chinese Automotive Distributors (CAD) have confirmed to GoAuto that they are considering importing Chinese trucks.

Ateco, which pioneered Chinese vehicle sales in Australia last year with its Great Wall ute and SUV range, says it is keeping its eyes open for opportunities in all segments of the Chinese motor industry.

Spokesman Daniel Cotterill said that included commercial vehicles, but it was too early to be specific.

“We are interested in a range of things from China, and it think it would be fair say, commercial vehicles,” he said.

“We have got a guy who actively pursues things in China all the time. He is the guy that oversaw the getting of Great Wall here, and I know for a fact he is up to his elbows getting Chery here.

“I am not privy to everything he does, but I know that he is up and down from there all the time.”



Perth-based CAD says it is already in talks with Chinese truck-makers with a view to expanding into commercial vehicles alongside its Geely passenger car business that is due to hit the Australian market in about September or October.

Owner John Hughes – a West Australian businessman and major car dealer in Perth – said he had travelled to China three weeks ago to speak with truck companies, visiting “six different cities in six days”.

“We are not restricting ourselves to purely passenger cars, nor are we restricting ourselves to SUVs and pick ups,” he said.

“We have have got one man coming to visit us in the first week of August, and they make pick-ups and SUVs.”

Mr Hughes declined to name the company, but said it was only one of several he had made contact with.

“We are talking to a number of ultility manufacturers and we are talking with two or three manufacturers of light trucks up to 3.5 GVM (gross vehicle mass), and some that make up to six or eight tonnes,” he said.

The light-to-medium truck market in Australia is dominated by Japanese manufacturers. The hotly contested delivery truck segment – 3.5-7.5 tonne GVM – accounts for about 12,000 sales a year, with Isuzu’s N-Series, Mitsubishi Fuso Canter and Hino the main players.

China’s rapidly expanding truck industry – driven by at least 30 manufacturers – is one of the biggest in the world, accounting for almost four million of the 13.8 million vehicles sold in the market that overtook the United States as the world’s biggest last year.

These truck manufacturers not only dominate domestic sales – propelled by the ballooning construction industry and huge government fleet sales – but those of neighbouring countries.

Among the biggest companies are China National, Foton, FAW, JMC, Shaanxi and Yuejin.

One likely candidate for Australian sales is Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Co Ltd, which sells a vast array for vehicles from light passenger cars to heavy haulage trucks under the JAC brand.

It is China’s biggest bus chassis supplier and has been China’s number one light-truck exporter for six consecutive years, delivering trucks to some 100 countries, mainly in Asia, Africa, South America and Central America.

It recently started construction of a truck factory in Vietnam, to help cope with Asian sales volumes.

Interestingly, it already makes vehicles in right-hand drive for export, including one of its best sellers – a single-cab 2.6-tonne GVM light truck powered by a 3.2-litre 83kW/196Nm four-cylinder diesel engine mated exclusively with a five-speed manual gearbox.

The JAC website also reveals a dual-cab utility that, if it arrived in Australia, would go head to head with Great Wall’s Chinese-made ute, the V240, that retails for $23,990 drive-away in dual-cab guise, as well as Mahindra’s Indian-made $21,999 Pik Up.

The American-style JAC HFC pick-up is powered by a 2.8-litre 68kW/202Nm four-cylinder diesel mated with a five-speed manual gearbox. Load capacity is said to be 500kg, compared with the Great Wall ute’s 1000kg.

The Great Wall V240’s 2.4-litre diesel has more power – 100kW – but marginally less torque (200Nm).

No timetable has been set for the arrival of the first Chinese trucks, but judging by the prolonged gestation period for utes, SUVs and passenger cars, it is likely to be no earlier than 2012.

While Great Wall was the first Chinese brand to hit the Australian market last year, Geely is set to become the first Chinese brand to land a passenger car, the 1.5-litre MK light sedan, in about September or October this year. That, however, will only be in Western Australia, before the brand rolls east next year.

Chery is set to follow close behind in November, when it expects to start selling its 1.3-litre five-door J1 hatch and 2.0-litre J11 compact SUV.

[vztrt]

Ageing Great Wall ute dropped

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25775A0026CA29

Ateco euthanises Great Wall SA220 and puts all its ute efforts into thriving V240

8 July 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

GREAT Wall Motors importer Ateco Automotive has quietly dropped the slow-selling, Chinese-made SA220 ute from its range in Australia.

The 2.2-litre four-door ute became the cheapest dual-cab workhorse on the market when it was launched at $19,990 driveaway alongside its more advanced, better-equipped but pricier sibling, the V240, in June 2010.

Just a year later, dealers are running out the remnants of SA220 stock and focusing sales attention on the in-demand 2.4-litre V240 range, which was expanded last month with a single-cab model priced from just $17,990.

Great Wall spokesman Daniel Cotterill said the decision to delete the SA220 from the range was taken locally for commercial reasons.

“It was our decision to drop it,” he said. “It never quite lived up to its sales potential, so we decided to let it go.”

Called the Great Wall Sailor in China, the SA220 was introduced without airbags, ABS or even a rear high-mounted stop light, which may have scared off some buyers.

A poor two-star crash rating from the independent Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP) would not have helped.

Since launch in June 2010, Great Wall dealers have sold just 576 SA220s – an average of little more than 40 a month – compared with 2406 V240s (about 200 a month).

The two-wheel-drive-only SA220 was already ageing when it was launched in Australia. Even in China it has now disappeared from Great Wall’s public web site and was probably doomed for Australia, even if Ateco had wanted to keep it running.

The V240 has thrived in Australia, despite a safety hiccup when a seatbelt retractor mechanism failed during an ANCAP crash test, forcing the recall of all vehicles in customer hands in December. That was followed by another recall to fix a faulty handbrake in May.

Powered by a Mitsubishi-derived 2.4-litre four-cylinder petrol engine producing 100kW of power and 200Nm of torque – compared with the SA220’s 78kW/190Nm – comes loaded with dual front airbags, ABS, central locking, four-speaker CD/radio and air-conditioning. The two-door version comes standard with a drop-side aluminium tray.

Sales of the V240 are split almost evenly between 4x2 and 4x4 variants, with the 4x2 dual cab starting at $23,990 and the top-of-the-range 4x4 dual cab at $26,990.

The V240 utes share the Great Wall showrooms with the X240 SUV, introduced in Australia at $23,990 driveaway last October.

Based on a full-chassis Toyota 4Runner platform, the X240 is, like its ute siblings, available only in manual form but offers high and low range on the fly.

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/73523/gr...0-sales-crash/

Great Wall SA220 sales crash
By Brett Davis | July 9th, 2010

Only after being on sale for one year, Ateco Motors, Australian importer of Great Wall cars, has removed the SA220 dual cab ute from the current Great Wall lineup. The entry-level twin cab didn’t quite meet the expectations of Ateco even with a competitive $19,990 price tag.

Just 576 SA220s were sold over the short period which could have had something to do with the lack of safety equipment offered with the car; no passenger airbags or anti-lock brakes. The car only received a two-star safety rating during ANCAP crash testing too, possibly hindering sales.

In a recent report, Great Wall spokesman Daniel Cotterill said,

“It was our decision to drop it. It never quite lived up to its sales potential, so we decided to let it go.”

Ateco is now concentrating on the slightly more expensive but better equipped V240 ute.

The higher specification model is powered by a more powerful 2.4L Mitsubishi engine, producing 100kW – the SA220 used a 2.2-litre motor that had an output of 76kW. The V240 also comes with dual airbags and ABS, which has helped sales reach 2406 units so far.

[vztrt]

Chinese trucks set to arrive in early 2011

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257765000D1D25

JAC trucks to be distributed through 24 dealers in first wave of Chinese haulers
19 July 2010
By RON HAMMERTON
SYDNEY-BASED bus distributor White Motor Corporation (WMC) is set to shake up the Australian truck market by introducing Chinese-made trucks nationally from early next year.

The company, which already distributes Chinese-built Higer buses and coaches in Australia and New Zealand, has been granted import rights for the JAC Motors range of light, medium and heavy duty trucks for Australasia.

A second brand of Chinese trucks, this time in the heavy duty field, is set to be added to the WMC armoury later next year.

JAC – Jianghuai Automobile Co – is China’s largest and best-established truck exporter and the country’s second largest truck-maker, with truck products ranging from pick-ups to prime movers, and well as buses and passenger cars.

The leading producer of light trucks in China, the company sold 320,000 vehicles last year. This year, it expects to top a million light truck sales alone.

JAC already makes some of its trucks in right-hand drive for a range of markets, including several African countries, and even has a design centre in Japan – the world’s biggest right-hand drive market.

As GoAuto reported last week, at least two other Australian distributors – well-established passenger car importer Ateco and fledgling Chinese car importer Chinese Automotive Distributors – have told GoAuto they are also looking to expand into trucks from China, which has one of the biggest truck industries in the world.

WMC says it is already testing JAC trucks in Australia to adapt them to Australian conditions ahead of the Australian launch in the first quarter of 2011.



It also has completed Australian Design Rule (ADR) certification testing in China for two JAC trucks. The company is now just awaiting Euro 5 emmissions paperwork from engine supplier Cummins to finalise Australian sales approval.

WMC CEO Jason Pecotic said the company’s acquisition of distribution rights for JAC in Australia and New Zealand marked a milestone for both the truck industry and the company.

“JAC will be the first Chinese manufacturer to market trucks in Australia in significant volume and across a range of models and variants,” he said.

“The arrival of JAC in Australia will inject new competition into the Australian truck market and mark a paradigm shift in truck pricing and value for money expectations amongst truck buyers,” he said.

“While offering competitive pricing and specifications JAC will deliver proven reliability, efficiency and safety standards using globally recognised components from the likes of Cummins, Allison and Wabco to name but a few.”

Mr Pecotic, whose background is in retail sales with Toyota and Holden, said JAC truck distribution would start when a national dealership network was in place in 2011.

He told GoAuto that 24 well-established existing truck retailers covering all states had already signed up for the JAC franchise.

“We have been given the task of establishing the brand in Australia and we have been working hard to secure a strong dealer network throughout the country backed up by parts and service resources to ensure JAC’s success,” he said.

Mr Pecotic said WMC would have access to the full JAC range of trucks, but would launch with a range of light and medium-duty trucks from 4.5 tonnes GVM (gross vehicle mass) with a mix of transmission and wheelbase options.

“Our intention is to add heavy duty models to the range once our initial product range is established," he said.

Mr Pecotic said the range would open with three models, all with Cummins diesel engines and Allison automatic transmissions.

Later, the company would offer a ZF manual transmission alternative.

Australia’s hotly contested delivery truck segment – 3.5-7.5 tonne GVM – accounts for about 12,000 sales a year, with Isuzu’s N-Series, Mitsubishi Fuso Canter and Hino the dominant players.

WMC was established about four years ago to import and distribute completely-built up Chinese-made Higer buses and coaches in Australia.

According to WMC, Higer is China’s leading bus manufacturer and exporter with annual sales of 19,000 buses - almost twice as many as some of Europe’s largest bus-makers.

Since sales started with a limited range about 18 months ago, more than 100 Higer buses and coaches have been sold in Australia.

Mr Pecotic said JAC had chosen WMC – no relation to the original White truck company of America – for the JAC franchise because of its success with Higer buses.

JAC sales will kick off in New Zealand in October after the arrival of two demonstrator vehicles now on a ship from Shanghai. These Euro 4 emissions-compliant trucks can be sold in NZ, but Australia has to wait for Euro 5 comliant vehicles.

The WMC team handling JAC from the company’s new Milperra headquarters in Sydney includes former Nissan UD executive Shannon Taylor as sales and marketing manager.

WMC’s contract with JAC applies only to trucks. GoAuto understands at least two other importers have had talks with JAC about its passenger car and ute offerings.