Would legal venues stop hoons?

[302 XC]

I believe there has been at least one person killed in this country by a piece of tread ejected in a burnout.[/QUOTE]

A beleif or a fact ???
Only 1 so called death and wow
Your all against building a dedicated venue to curb illegal road activities
How many people die from smoking related deaths a year ???
Whats the government do for this death ???
Wack the ciggie tax up,
IF its so bad why not stop the selling of it ???

Alcohol fuel violence, again
IF alcohol is that BAD for us, why then is it still avaliable for sale ???

Should we ban what ride on mowers as well
I can get stones to flick from the wee tyres
Seriously where does the stupidity stop
IF speeding is such a major (Yep more than 1 death)factor in death tolls
Why can you buy any new car that can go faster than any legal limit within this country
Im sure even the most underpowered new car could still flick a stone or even perform a burnout
Do we ban all cars then
What about a push bike
They can go faster than any 40-50-60K zone
Too fast ???
Seriuosly get the "Hoons" for a better word of the streets
Then slap those who break the law with massive fines
Even then yourself caught speeding would get a massive fine
Not fair ???
Go tell that to all the people in wheelchairs,disabled or the families of the deceased thats not fair
1 or 2 speedsters in your street and the world falls apart

[QIK006]

any chance of a scan or link to the story? I didnt buy the papers this weekend :(

[84xespac]

Yeah another one for a scan of the article please guys. When I went down the servo this arvo there were non left so I didn't bother looking elsewhere.

[AMGC63]

A dedicated venue wont make 1 bit of goats poo difference to road hooning, the knobs who do this do it because e thrill of it being illegal and they are opportunistic, make them conform to safety standards and pay their way and they'll lose interest.

[QIK006]

Originally Posted by Wayne351

A dedicated venue wont make 1 bit of goats poo difference to road hooning, the knobs who do this do it because e thrill of it being illegal and they are opportunistic, make them conform to safety standards and pay their way and they'll lose interest.

Up the penance for breaking the rules, and watch the places that they can do it legally, prosper. If massive fines, confiscations of cars etc were par for the course, there would be a lot less choice, because they would be broke or not have a car. this would also be an up side, as EVERYone would have to be more careful with the way they drove

[UNR8D]

I still don't see the punishment fit the crime, you can be high range drunk and you get to keep your car, but one skid and its impounded?

The idiotic thing about this law and the muppits who don't understand the law, is that for years police have had power to fine for, excessive noise/smoke, speeding/high range speeding, dangerous driving yet we need a law that is not even recognized in the oxford dictionary (slang) HOON to create a whole new set of laws that run parallel to the ones existing..... stupid yes.. but why is this so? because govgo panda to the squeaky wheel.. IE twats like sudzy who will complain because the like the sound of their own voice.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

I still don't see the punishment fit the crime, you can be high range drunk and you get to keep your car, but one skid and its impounded?

The idiotic thing about this law and the muppits who don't understand the law, is that for years police have had power to fine for, excessive noise/smoke, speeding/high range speeding, dangerous driving yet we need a law that is not even recognized in the oxford dictionary (slang) HOON to create a whole new set of laws that run parallel to the ones existing..... stupid yes.. but why is this so? because govgo panda to the squeaky wheel.. IE twats like sudzy who will complain because the like the sound of their own voice.

If you get caught doing skids and such, you get charged with dangerous driving loss of traction. Hoon is just the word made up by the media.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

I still don't see the punishment fit the crime, you can be high range drunk and you get to keep your car, but one skid and its impounded?

The idiotic thing about this law and the muppits who don't understand the law, is that for years police have had power to fine for, excessive noise/smoke, speeding/high range speeding, dangerous driving yet we need a law that is not even recognized in the oxford dictionary (slang) HOON to create a whole new set of laws that run parallel to the ones existing..... stupid yes.. but why is this so? because govgo panda to the squeaky wheel.. IE twats like sudzy who will complain because the like the sound of their own voice.

Here in SA your car gets impounded for DUI of drugs and alcohol, the figures put out by the government here would have the amount of impounds for actual Hoon activities at around 33%.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Your all against building a dedicated venue to curb illegal road activities
How many people die from smoking related deaths a year ???
Whats the government do for this death ???
Wack the ciggie tax up,
IF its so bad why not stop the selling of it ???

Alcohol fuel violence, again
IF alcohol is that BAD for us, why then is it still avaliable for sale ???

Should we ban what ride on mowers as well
I can get stones to flick from the wee tyres
Seriously where does the stupidity stop
IF speeding is such a major (Yep more than 1 death)factor in death tolls
Why can you buy any new car that can go faster than any legal limit within this country
Im sure even the most underpowered new car could still flick a stone or even perform a burnout
Do we ban all cars then
What about a push bike
They can go faster than any 40-50-60K zone
Too fast ???
Seriuosly get the "Hoons" for a better word of the streets
Then slap those who break the law with massive fines
Even then yourself caught speeding would get a massive fine
Not fair ???
Go tell that to all the people in wheelchairs,disabled or the families of the deceased thats not fair
1 or 2 speedsters in your street and the world falls apart

Nice rant, and I agree, massive fines, outlaw selling tobacco, idiots using mowers that flick stones into people in public spaces, we need cars with 300rwkW?........ no argument from me, but you want me to make a crusade on this forum about everyone of them?

But what's your point on push bikes? yep you can be fined for exceeding the speed limit on them too, just like any other road rule, but so far no cyclist that has ridden past my place has managed to fling a stone into my front yard, made a toxic plume or woken me up in the middle of the night with a full 6000rpm burnoout, left the road full of donut trails(rubber) etc

[2011G6E]

I don't think anyone here has said they are "against legal venues being built".
I most certainly am not.

What people are, is being realistic and facing the facts of the world as it is.
A facility in ever town would be great...I'd love to see them built...but most people have no idea of what a big undertaking this would be around the country.

As I said...who will pay to build them?
Who will pay for the land?
Who pays for the planning and architects?
Who pays for the engineers and land reports before building can be undertaken?
Who pays for the materials?
Who pays the construction companies to build the place?
Who pays for the power poles and supply to the location? Who pays for the sewerage and drainage?
Who pays for the running of the facility and pays the wages of the people who will do this?
Who pays for the ongoing upkeep of the place?
Who pays for eventual repairs?
How much would entry fees be to cover costs?
Most importantly, who arranges and pays for the insurance on the place?
Our motorbike club had one small observation rally a year to which the general bike riding public was welcome to attend to win prizes, coupled with a bike display for trophies. This one small event on one day cost us a yearly premium of $500. Heaven knows what a year-round insurance policy on a racing facility would cost...

If you say "The government/councils should just do it!", then you are the one ignoring reality. I am sure ratepayers would be very happy to see a large increase in rates to pay for all this, when it is for a tiny minority of the public. Same with taxpayers, who would rightly say "how about the idiots who do truly dangerous things on public roads exercise a little self control?".

This sort of thing would not be built for free and would not be free to use...someone would have to pay, and pay a lot. Can you see Clancy Numbnuts turning up and paying a large fee on a friday night to do a few burnouts in his $900 VN with steel wheels and more rust than paint?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

I still don't see the punishment fit the crime,

In the paper a couple of weeks ago, I just happened to read two articles, both were relation to death of one killed by another.



The 'shooter' got life or 25 years.
The ' driver' got 2.5 years.

If you kill with a motorised weapon, you will only do 10% of the time.
So where's the responsibility?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by sudszy

But what's your point on push bikes? yep you can be fined for exceeding the speed limit on them too, just like any other road rule, but so far no cyclist that has ridden past my place has managed to fling a stone into my front yard, made a toxic plume or woken me up in the middle of the night with a full 6000rpm burnoout, left the road full of donut trails(rubber) etc

So what your arguement is , that its all about you and your street

The dirt corner about 5 metres from my front fence,gets all the wannabes
in their 4x4s , probably 3 or 4 times a week
Dumping the clutch and throwing back a gear and given it a boot
Stones all over my nice fence,that i must add cost about 5K
One day someone will hit it non the less
But you know once upon a time i would do the same thing
So who am i to criticise

[flappist]

The problem is that some people want to create a society that caters for diverse interests whereas other want to create a society that they control.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is that some people want to create a society that caters for diverse interests whereas other want to create a society that they control.

The main issue here is
Those that are against it , havent lived and have never done 1 thing wrong livin in their cocoon
OR
People have very shallow memories
Id love to see how many blokes have never chucked a skid, done a burnout, flicked a stone, accelorated excessively from the lights, never got a speeding ticket, i bet youd find ,none

My missus would have done all of those as well



Sudszy,
IF the speeding , burnouts,stone flicking is an issue
Complain to the council
They then IF its such an issue, fill your street with speed humps,or little traffic islands
Been done before in many hot spots

[SpoolMan]

This could all be stopped with one piece of legislation govern the cars to 100klms and P platers to 80klms but we all know they wont do it because they will loose to much money.
As they call it a Hoon is now big money just like speed cameras, its filling the coffers for various levels of Governments spending.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I don't think anyone here has said they are "against legal venues being built".
I most certainly am not.

What people are, is being realistic and facing the facts of the world as it is.
A facility in ever town would be great...I'd love to see them built...but most people have no idea of what a big undertaking this would be around the country.

As I said...who will pay to build them?
Who will pay for the land?
Who pays for the planning and architects?
Who pays for the engineers and land reports before building can be undertaken?
Who pays for the materials?
Who pays the construction companies to build the place?
Who pays for the power poles and supply to the location? Who pays for the sewerage and drainage?
Who pays for the running of the facility and pays the wages of the people who will do this?
Who pays for the ongoing upkeep of the place?
Who pays for eventual repairs?
How much would entry fees be to cover costs?
Most importantly, who arranges and pays for the insurance on the place?
Our motorbike club had one small observation rally a year to which the general bike riding public was welcome to attend to win prizes, coupled with a bike display for trophies. This one small event on one day cost us a yearly premium of $500. Heaven knows what a year-round insurance policy on a racing facility would cost...

If you say "The government/councils should just do it!", then you are the one ignoring reality. I am sure ratepayers would be very happy to see a large increase in rates to pay for all this, when it is for a tiny minority of the public. Same with taxpayers, who would rightly say "how about the idiots who do truly dangerous things on public roads exercise a little self control?".

This sort of thing would not be built for free and would not be free to use...someone would have to pay, and pay a lot. Can you see Clancy Numbnuts turning up and paying a large fee on a friday night to do a few burnouts in his $900 VN with steel wheels and more rust than paint?

In regard to who will pay for it...here is an example of who...

http://www.southcoastraceway.com/documents/news.html

The only big name in the town that isn't on that list...the Aluminium Smelter...

Granted this track is only 1/8 mile, but it still gets the guys out and into a controlled environment.

The South Coast Drag Racing Association is a non profit local community run organisation that runs regular drag racing
events at South Coast Raceway.

The ambo's, SES, Firey's are all community minded, and from what I understand do it on a voluntary basis. Tow trucks are on standby if required and it's held every Friday night...

Entry for street drags is as follows

Heads-up grudge racing

$30 Driver entry

$8 Spectator entry

Children under 14 free (When accompanied by an adult)

Otherwise $5

The larger communities have the ability to do this, very easily...as I've said previously, they have less than 11,000 people.

Safety requirements are very clear

- The car must be in generally good condition

- No oil leeks

- Brace on the oil filter

- No wheel hub caps / Trims (take them off)

- All wheels nuts must be on

- Reverse lockout must be working (Car cannot start in reverse)

- Brakes firm

- Liquid overflow bottle

- Battery not loose

- Seat belt working

- Throttle return spring

- No play in the steering wheel

If you're attending the burnouts, you must attend the pre-burnout briefing...and your exhaust must have a muffler.

This event takes place every Friday night - right here

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&s...5&z=17&iwloc=A

You can see the residential blocks...and people actually do live there.

It's far from impossible, it just takes people who really want it to happen...diplomacy, gaining public exposure, and putting a positive spin on it, as opposed to all the negative garbage.

These guys operate for 3 hours on a Friday night - up until 9pm, effectively scrapping the disruption to members of the public surrounding them.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

This could all be stopped with one piece of legislation govern the cars to 100klms and P platers to 80klms but we all know they wont do it because they will loose to much money.
As they call it a Hoon is now big money just like speed cameras, its filling the coffers for various levels of Governments spending.

I reckon speed limits should be set of a "as needed" basis.

The smaller the state the lower the limit.........

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

The main issue here is
Those that are against it , havent lived and have never done 1 thing wrong livin in their cocoon
OR
People have very shallow memories
Id love to see how many blokes have never chucked a skid, done a burnout, flicked a stone, accelorated excessively from the lights, never got a speeding ticket, i bet youd find ,none

My missus would have done all of those as well



Sudszy,
IF the speeding , burnouts,stone flicking is an issue
Complain to the council
They then IF its such an issue, fill your street with speed humps,or little traffic islands
Been done before in many hot spots

Absolutely spot on, hypocrites.

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I don't think anyone here has said they are "against legal venues being built".
I most certainly am not.

What people are, is being realistic and facing the facts of the world as it is.
A facility in ever town would be great...I'd love to see them built...but most people have no idea of what a big undertaking this would be around the country.

As I said...who will pay to build them?
Who will pay for the land?
Who pays for the planning and architects?
Who pays for the engineers and land reports before building can be undertaken?
Who pays for the materials?
Who pays the construction companies to build the place?
Who pays for the power poles and supply to the location? Who pays for the sewerage and drainage?
Who pays for the running of the facility and pays the wages of the people who will do this?
Who pays for the ongoing upkeep of the place?
Who pays for eventual repairs?
How much would entry fees be to cover costs?
Most importantly, who arranges and pays for the insurance on the place?
Our motorbike club had one small observation rally a year to which the general bike riding public was welcome to attend to win prizes, coupled with a bike display for trophies. This one small event on one day cost us a yearly premium of $500. Heaven knows what a year-round insurance policy on a racing facility would cost...

If you say "The government/councils should just do it!", then you are the one ignoring reality. I am sure ratepayers would be very happy to see a large increase in rates to pay for all this, when it is for a tiny minority of the public. Same with taxpayers, who would rightly say "how about the idiots who do truly dangerous things on public roads exercise a little self control?".

This sort of thing would not be built for free and would not be free to use...someone would have to pay, and pay a lot. Can you see Clancy Numbnuts turning up and paying a large fee on a friday night to do a few burnouts in his $900 VN with steel wheels and more rust than paint?

What are we talking here, a few hundred metres of asphalt, a few fences, undercover viewing area and a few other facilities?
Or a full blown raceway with grandstand, pits, few kms of track and all the other things that are built at raceways?

I was thinking the first one would be appropriate for smaller cities and rural areas. Sure it will cost money, but the government manages to pay for heaps of things that only a select group of people use. Why should motoring group miss out.

Could always use money from speed cameras since they are always planning to get more and more cameras.

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

In the paper a couple of weeks ago, I just happened to read two articles, both were relation to death of one killed by another.



The 'shooter' got life or 25 years.
The ' driver' got 2.5 years.

If you kill with a motorised weapon, you will only do 10% of the time.
So where's the responsibility?

Not having a go but was that just from the paper or court transcripts? There are many mitigating factors taken into account when it comes to serving time, for all we know the shooter has had a history of threatening/using a firearm or a string of assault charges etc... And the driver had a clean record but rush of blood to the head... one is more of a danger to the community to have returned to society in 2 years and one isnt.

Having said that I have court transcripts re 2 Victorian accidents;

1 was a woman who had driven through a stop sign and killed a guy but had also previously made this 'mistake' 2-3 years before ended up with a suspended drivers licence for around 2 years and NCR (no conviction recorded) her excuse/reason was that because it wasn’t a busy area it shouldn’t be a stop sign, and that she refused to wear her contacts as required by her licence due to it irritating her eyes.

1 was a 18yo in a non turbo silvia who Tboned a guy on a main street, was proved he was speeding/racing at the time ended up on manslaughter charges and ill recheck when I’m back at home but no licence for 10-15 years, failed to include in closing remarks the fact that the guy who was crossing through a main road failed to give way (regardless if speeding or not both have a duty of care and both have failed in this)

end result is you have a middle aged woman who has after already killing one driver through negligence continued to disobey road rules and kill a second person in the process ends up with a clean record and able to drive again after only a short period with no retraining demanded/requested.

p plater got front page news and trial by media, killed 1 person through stupidity but accident/inexperience and ends up having it destroy his life.

yes both deserve penalty’s but when you have killed 2 people out of your own arrogance the lack of media attention and it not being a HOON accounted for someone that has a contempt for life/laws being able to go on with life without so much as a minor inconvenience.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

It's far from impossible, it just takes people who really want it to happen...diplomacy, gaining public exposure, and putting a positive spin on it, as opposed to all the negative garbage.

Well put the computer down for five minutes and get the ball rolling.....

[Polyal]

Theres a part of me that wants to say yes, something like this would be good. But we already have drag strips that usually also hold burn out comps the same night etc...but the problem remains.

Unfortunately there are always going to be tools. Some tools will never learn, others grow out of it.

Im sure over the years I have done my fair share of silly things, and I would bet everyone here has done the same.

We live in a society where we protect the mentally weak (not disabled, weak) with laws/regs etc and we all get caught up in it aswell.

As noted previously, its all such a huge money spinner now that I cant see it ever being fixed with any logic.

All I can say is that there is a time and a place...work it out from there.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Well put the computer down for five minutes and get the ball rolling.....

Apparently I have more than enough on my plate, and will probably end up divorced before I'm even married if I 'try to change the world' anymore than I already am...

But when I'm done applying for jobs...we'll see what we can come up with.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Unfortunately there are always going to be tools. Some tools will never learn, others grow out of it.

We live in a society where we protect the mentally weak (not disabled, weak) with laws/regs etc and we all get caught up in it aswell.

Your absolutely right

Isnt there warnings on cans nowadays
"Do not lick the rim"
WHAT !!!
So the seraded edge isnt a give away
"Do not stick fingers in oscilating fans"
"Do not stick your hands or feet "under mowers that are goin
Reserving cameras in cars for those incompedant to not look first

Do we always have to compensate for pure lazyness or stupidity
Or those not smart enuf to figure it out

[2011G6E]

Reversing cameras are needed because you can't see the corners of most new cars, not to mention the way the rising styled line towards the back of the car means anything within a couple of meters behind you is invisible...you know, stuff like children...as for reversing sensors (best invention ever...), I've actually thought about the possibility of switchable reversing sensors on the front of the G6E. Apparently the Statesman has them on the front.

Back to the tracks.
Cost: even the simplest eighth mile track has to have council approval, be put on land someone has bought, and have insurance. The insurance is probably the biggest ongoing expense. No one in thier right mind would even think of opening such a venue without it. Sponsors are a possibility, but not easy to get.

Hell, down at Maryborough the local car clubs wanted the council to donate an unused stretch of blocked off local road outside town. All they would have had to do was basically put up fences, but even with the most basic ameneties, no one wanted to get behind it. The council apparently didn't want to be seen to be supporting "hoons" (which is the whole reason most people put forward for building one).

Basically, if there isn't a venue, then jus don't drive around doing burnouts...simple. Otherwise wear it on the chin and drive way out of town to some remote stretch of long straight rural road with no one around for miles, like we used to years ago, and don't expect ratepayers or taxpayers to subsidise your "hobby".

I'd still like to know how many of what could be classed "hoons" would actually bother turning up to a strictly controlled venue...they'd soon be p1ssed at the amount of control and rules they had to follow.

[Jim Goose]

Rockhampton last year ran a semi-street sprint for the first time.
The track started within the showgrounds and then ran around the public road which ran outside the show grounds.
There was nearly 200 entrants.

If you want a facility built dont expect the government to do it for you, you need to put ahead a qasi business case etc forward to the relevent people and get as many dept. companies and people involved.

[xisled]

I think the big problem with hoon's on the street, is that most will not goto a track or a strip because it cost way to much. Look at the cost I posted previously in this post. Calder legal drags cost $80 dollars just to enter your car. This does not include tires and petrol to burn. So with tires, petrol, traveling cost to the venue and the entry cost, you would be looking about $150 odd dollars to just do a skid. Do it on the street in the local industrial area, maybe $50 dollars. Now for a young person $150 a week could be half the persons pay. So one of the main problems is the cost.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Sudszy,
IF the speeding , burnouts,stone flicking is an issue
Complain to the council
They then IF its such an issue, fill your street with speed humps,or little traffic islands
Been done before in many hot spots

You have to be kidding, to get rid of these morons rate payers have to spend thousands and be inconvenienced with chicanes/obstacles in their streets? ......crush the bugger's cars,cancel their licences, word gets around, problem gone!

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by sudszy

You have to be kidding, to get rid of these morons rate payers have to spend thousands and be inconvenienced with chicanes/obstacles in their streets? ......crush the bugger's cars,cancel their licences, word gets around, problem gone!

Rates payers to pay for chicanes/obstacles ???
Dont we pay this in our rego ???
Whats a childs life worth ???
A 10-20K roundabout ???
10 K mini traffic island ???
Wheres all the revenue from road related fines goin then
Please explain


Now im not understanding how long youve had a licence for and wether you actually obtain a licence OR maybe ya just love stirring the pot

Spinning the tyres is classed as a hoon and a fineable offence,so is speeding
So ANY car in near ANY situation can spin the tyres
(My stock 4x4 can spin 31X10.5 X15s any set of lights without trying)
Speeding ANY car can exceed the legal limit on any road
You say crush the cars for this

Problem NOT gone
They crush cars , impound cars, hand out massive fines
It DOESNT work


Seriously i think your just stirring the pot

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Rates payers to pay for chicanes/obstacles ???
Dont we pay this in our rego ???
Whats a childs life worth ???
A 10-20K roundabout ???
10 K mini traffic island ???
Wheres all the revenue from road related fines goin then
Please explain

Revenue from fines is meant to pay for roundabouts, where'd you get that logic from?

so my street has to get covered in these things what happens next, the hoons keep to the next street along until they get the street covered in the obstacles and so it goes until the whole neighbourhood is covered in the things, whereas enforcement of some simple laws could save us all the trouble.

Originally Posted by 302 XC

They crush cars , impound cars, hand out massive fines
It DOESNT work

Really, they havent got serious with these morons yet, how many $40000+ brand new performance falcons and comms have been put through the crusher, they are the main offenders in my locality.....how many have had licences pulled for 5 years +

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Seriously i think your just stirring the pot

No mate, just the voice of reason for the majority out there.