SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

SS
Still Selling

Sales don't always mean it is the better car... you have to consider your target demographic aswell.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Considering the XR8 is essentially a GT R spec I wouldn't have expected it to be outperformed by a lowly SS.

While that is true, it's still only an XR8.... a direct competitor to the SS.

[SensationFG8]

It's priced in line with an SSV redline. The fact that it can almost bloody the GTS nose in a straight line is a credit to ford for offering this performance at this price.

Honestly, all jokes aside I hope holden respond and do something special, for now tho XR8 is the king of the muscle available on the showroom floors.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I have been waiting for these reviews because I just knew Holden's 6.0 would have no chance against the Mighty Miami.

380kW vs 260kw and I'm not even going to bother mentioning the difference in torque output... how embarrassing for Holden right now...

Who cares if the XR doesn't have useless gagdets like lane departure assist, it has the looks, it has real V8 power and of course the most important part, it sounds like thunder!

We might even see the XR8 being compared against some Euro muscle at some point...

I gotta say, I have never been more proud to own an XR8!

Engine wise the XR8 is a killer in its price range.

If you read the comments associated with the media reviews you’ll also notice the chalk and cheese expectations and differences between the comments from performance enthusiasts and the wider buying general public.

To put it in perspective the XR8 is a godsend for some and in that department Ford has hit the nail squarely on the head and has done a sensational job, for others in the majority who have no interest in ¼ mile times, the new Falcon to put is nicely from a lot of comments is a non-event.

Originally Posted by Bent8

Sales don't always mean it is the better car... you have to consider your target demographic aswell.

It was just a tongue in cheek comment but you are so right. Apple has successfully traded on that premise for years. The only difference being sales to their demographic target are more important than product quality.

[Dave R]

I still think some of this is an overreaction. You've been able to buy a new F6 for years for about what the XR8 is going for, less in a lot of instances. Ditto GS. The FG XR6T has also been in the 12s stock as a rock from day one. Now you have the XR8 (or GT by another name) which, consistent with Ford of the last 10 years, is much quicker than the Holden V8 equivalent in a straight line. It's not as exciting to read as it used to be.

More interesting to me (and something that really hasn't been talked about at length) is the fact that they're not even fighting the same fight anymore. For the final generation Holden has completely changed the SS formula. No power bump for the new model, an exterior with splashes of chrome all over, the traditional wing spoiler replaced by a subtle lip, interior appointment you'd expect from a Calais style model, a long list of technologies that Australian-built cars have never seen before- the SS formula is not what it used to be. Most people have said that the true XR8 competitor is the SSV Redline, which on price may be true. But examine how different they are and it's clear that the XR8 is in its own league- it is the last of the true Aussie muscle cars (I exclude the GTS because average Joe can't afford one, Aussie muscle cars were never meant to be $100k IMO). The SS Redline formula had nothing to do with straight line speed for Holden, it's a handling and technology package- that says enough about Holden's intentions. They spent the money on technology and dynamics instead of dropping a bigger engine in or squeezing more from the 6L (which we know isn't hard at all). They aren't even going after the same customer anymore. I think what we've seen so far is exactly how it will continue to play out. I mean they tested the cheapest, most base SS against the FGX flagship and still walked away calling the SS a more sophisticated car. That gap only widens substantially once you start looking at the Redline package vs the same XR8. Whereas nothing Holden makes shy of an almost 6 figure GTS was built with the same intention of pure speed like the XR8.

It's clear Ford and Holden have built totally different cars for this generation, they're no longer trying to be the same thing like the previous generations. At the end of the day the customer has it good and that's all that matters really. It's just a waste of time trying to compare cars that are built on such different formulas. You can be equally brutal both ways- the Holden is slower by comparison or the Ford is ancient by comparison. Which isn't a flaw for either car- they are exactly what the manufacturer intended them to be.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I still think some of this is an overreaction. You've been able to buy a new F6 for years for about what the XR8 is going for, less in a lot of instances. Ditto GS. The FG XR6T has also been in the 12s stock as a rock from day one. Now you have the XR8 (or GT by another name) which, consistent with Ford of the last 10 years, is much quicker than the Holden V8 equivalent in a straight line. It's not as exciting to read as it used to be.

More interesting to me (and something that really hasn't been talked about at length) is the fact that they're not even fighting the same fight anymore. For the final generation Holden has completely changed the SS formula. No power bump for the new model, an exterior with splashes of chrome all over, the traditional wing spoiler replaced by a subtle lip, interior appointment you'd expect from a Calais style model, a long list of technologies that Australian-built cars have never seen before- the SS formula is not what it used to be. Most people have said that the true XR8 competitor is the SSV Redline, which on price may be true. But examine how different they are and it's clear that the XR8 is in its own league- it is the last of the true Aussie muscle cars (I exclude the GTS because average Joe can't afford one, Aussie muscle cars were never meant to be $100k IMO). The SS Redline formula had nothing to do with straight line speed for Holden, it's a handling and technology package- that says enough about Holden's intentions. They spent the money on technology and dynamics instead of dropping a bigger engine in or squeezing more from the 6L (which we know isn't hard at all). They aren't even going after the same customer anymore. I think what we've seen so far is exactly how it will continue to play out. I mean they tested the cheapest, most base SS against the FGX flagship and still walked away calling the SS a more sophisticated car. That gap only widens substantially once you start looking at the Redline package vs the same XR8. Whereas nothing Holden makes shy of an almost 6 figure GTS was built with the same intention of pure speed like the XR8.

It's clear Ford and Holden have built totally different cars for this generation, they're no longer trying to be the same thing like the previous generations. At the end of the day the customer has it good and that's all that matters really. It's just a waste of time trying to compare cars that are built on such different formulas. You can be equally brutal both ways- the Holden is slower by comparison or the Ford is ancient by comparison. Which isn't a flaw for either car- they are exactly what the manufacturer intended them to be.

Paragraphs are your friend but anyways....

When you say the XR8 was built for straight line speed, you conveniently forgot to mention the R-Spec suspension and wider rear tyres.

Yes, it destroys the Holden in a straight line but does the SSV Redline with FE2 suspension upgrade out-handle the XR8 ??

[responsef6]

XR8 wins by country mile...nuff said
Holden selling out their followers with no power upgrade for 8 years, trying to appeal to a broader market with gadgets and tech. The fact is jap lovers won't go commodore, euro lovers can't stand the brand, cheap Korean Chinese car buyers will always go for lowest price cars, so commodore in its final hour has lost focus on its niche.

Ford will sell less, but goes out with a bang, with xr8, xr6t and g6et, all of which wipe the floor with Holden ss/v

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by responsef6

SS
Second Sucks

Actually what's more relevant

Second Slower

SS= Super Sh#t

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Paragraphs are your friend but anyways....

When you say the XR8 was built for straight line speed, you conveniently forgot to mention the R-Spec suspension and wider rear tyres.

Yes, it destroys the Holden in a straight line but does the SSV Redline with FE2 suspension upgrade out-handle the XR8 ??

Well firstly the Redline has it's own unique FE3 suspension, not FE2.

But of course they're just names. Like "R Spec". You know it's a cool name, but anyone who knows anything about suspension and in particular, the chassis of these two cars, knows that the "R spec" (which really should have been called S Spec) is not coming close to a Redline VF. We really need someone like Chris Harris or Carlos Lago to review these cars. I could start with the basics, like the FG continues to be a long chassis with a short wheelbase, poor weight distribution and a dicey IRS in contrast to Zeta's beautifully long wheelbase, perfect weight distribution and generation-ahead IRS. They are totally different beasts. While the FG hauls around a huge front overhang and heavy V8 over the front wheels, the VF has next to no overhang, the engine further back and lower, the wheels further forward and rearward with alloy panels at each end. What that means in the real world (fancy "R spec" monikers aside) is that VF has physics on its side. You cannot beat physics. This is what that difference looks like:



I recommend you read some of the comprehensive reviews of the Redline chassis from the states, written by proper automotive journalists with proper equipment for objective dynamics comparisons (unlike the garbage automotive journalism we get here). I could quote Car and Driver- "the SS’s Holden chassis is a monument to sports-sedan fundamentals", "with plenty of confidence, the SS’s lateral grip bests not only that from GM’s last Cadillac CTS-V, but the current Audi S6 and BMW M5 as well". I could tell you that the SS achieved the same figure 8 time as the 2015 Mustang GT. Or that it pulls more Gs than a MK7 GTI, or that it lapped quicker than an AWD E63 AMG, or that it decimated everything out of SRT's stable to the point where MT's review against the SRT 300 went as far as saying it wasn't even a comparison.

I'm not holding my breath for a comprehensive dynamics review from anyone in this country. Our car culture is plagued by the notion of straight line performance = performance. I imagine we'll get a bunch of reviews praising the XR8 for its grunt and praising the SSV-R for its sophistication and technologies. I'm not sure how familiar you are with FGs (I see you have a BF) but I've been pushing the FG chassis as far as it'll go since they came out in '08. I live near some awesome roads so I get to drive the cars pretty comprehensively from a dynamics standpoint. I've spent some quality time with the R spec GT- I've compared it directly against my (at the time) FG XR6T with springs/shocks (custom valved), adjustable sway bars, bushes throughout, quality rubber etc. It was no comparison (no surprise). Comparing that same XR6T to a standard Redline VF was a revelation. Softer of course, but actually more capable. The way they hang on mid-corner is unbelievable. It's not until you drive them, then review the specs do you realise the extent to which the R Spec is out-gunned by the Redline's suspension hardware. One example is the rear sway bar which was upgraded to 19mm (from 18mm) in the R Spec. The Redline has a 28mm rear sway bar, up from 18 in the normal sedans. You can't even buy an aftermarket sway bar that large for a Falcon.

Now I'm not calling the R Spec setup bad, it's just that the Zeta II Redlines are extremely good. Once you take them off the highway onto a winding road you will understand just how competent they are. But like I said in my last post, different cars for different people. Nobody will be disappointed with an XR8, the R Spec tune is perfectly adequate to have a lot of fun. But I think my head will explode if I keep reading that the "R Spec" suspension is going to take down a Zeta II Redline. Quite frankly it's ridiculous.

[Bent8]

Fair enough mate, I wasn't saying the R-spec setup on the XR8 was better to start with...

But after reading your post, I think current SSV Redline owners have nothing to worry about seeing as their cars can already beat a 444hp Audi S6, 552hp BMW M5 and the 577hp E63 S.... what hope does a supercharged Falcon have going against it around a track?

[XtRmn8]

Adrenaline, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

[SensationFG8]

Yep, we don't want that pesky 335 + over boost fact getting in the way here.

[Falcon Coupe]

That picture really illustrates the chassis difference, thanks for posting!

I'm very interested in a full comparison against the Redline on strip and circuit (Preferably Phillip Island) ;) to see just how much the chassis can pull back from the power deficit.

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Our car culture is plagued by the notion of straight line performance = performance. .

That's due to Draconian speed policing in this country and not many people actually take their car on a circuit, so the "Traffic light Grand Prix" is what many see as bragging rights.

[Bent8]

Only problem I see with that chassis comparo is that it looks like the FGX wheelbase is much shorter than the Holden, when in reality the difference is 77mm. (just 2.6% shorter than the VF)

Does anyone the know weights of the 6.0 and Miami engines ?.. I would think they would be about the same....

Granted overhang does make a difference with weight distribution and the XR8 is a good 130kg heavier than the Redline, it will be interesting seeing them go head to head on a track with a good mix of tight bends and long straights.

As far as I know, both cars wear the same spec rubber 245 front/275 rear (just different brands)

SSV Redline 270kW (1731kg) 159kW/tonne 306Nm/tonne

FGX XR8 380kw (1861kg) 204kW/tonne 349Nm/tonne

Yep, it's gonna be a close one...................

[Dave R]

Yeah the comparison isn't 100% scale perfect (I didn't make it, I imagine part of the issue is the FG being a longer car than VF, but 77mm is still a big difference for a car that's already shorter which is why I called the FG a long chassis with a short wheelbase) but it does show visually just how much more front and rear overhang the FG is carrying. While the rear overhangs are a bit closer, it's the front where the FG suffers and unfortunately that's where you really don't want overhang. The R Spec is definitely a nose-heavy car and you do feel it at the limit.

I think a track like Broadford (where Motor did their R Spec test last year, leaving it closer to the Fiesta than it was to the GTS in track time) would really suit the Redline, whereas power circuits like Phillip Island, Sandown etc would see the Holden in big trouble.

Rubber will hurt the XR8 too. The Bridgestones on Commodores are a much better tyre than the Dunlops Ford uses.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

It doesn't need to be, it just needs to sell twice as much... which it did, and then some.

Lol.....pretty sure it needs to make PROFIT....not sell twice as much......which it didn't and then some.

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by Bent8

FGX XR8 380kw (1861kg) 204kW/tonne 349Nm/tonne

Geez that got heavy all of a sudden... I remember when 1700kgs was considered a porker!

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Geez that got heavy all of a sudden... I remember when 1700kgs was considered a porker!

Yeh I was a little shocked too but seeing as the XR8 is now basically a GT R-spec under the skin, it's not that surprising.

But when compared to Euro muscle, our Ford's/Holden's are lightweights

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Well firstly the Redline has it's own unique FE3 suspension, not FE2.

But of course they're just names. Like "R Spec". You know it's a cool name, but anyone who knows anything about suspension and in particular, the chassis of these two cars, knows that the "R spec" (which really should have been called S Spec) is not coming close to a Redline VF. We really need someone like Chris Harris or Carlos Lago to review these cars. I could start with the basics, like the FG continues to be a long chassis with a short wheelbase, poor weight distribution and a dicey IRS in contrast to Zeta's beautifully long wheelbase, perfect weight distribution and generation-ahead IRS. They are totally different beasts. While the FG hauls around a huge front overhang and heavy V8 over the front wheels, the VF has next to no overhang, the engine further back and lower, the wheels further forward and rearward with alloy panels at each end. What that means in the real world (fancy "R spec" monikers aside) is that VF has physics on its side. You cannot beat physics. This is what that difference looks like:

image

I recommend you read some of the comprehensive reviews of the Redline chassis from the states, written by proper automotive journalists with proper equipment for objective dynamics comparisons (unlike the garbage automotive journalism we get here). I could quote Car and Driver- "the SS’s Holden chassis is a monument to sports-sedan fundamentals", "with plenty of confidence, the SS’s lateral grip bests not only that from GM’s last Cadillac CTS-V, but the current Audi S6 and BMW M5 as well". I could tell you that the SS achieved the same figure 8 time as the 2015 Mustang GT. Or that it pulls more Gs than a MK7 GTI, or that it lapped quicker than an AWD E63 AMG, or that it decimated everything out of SRT's stable to the point where MT's review against the SRT 300 went as far as saying it wasn't even a comparison.

I'm not holding my breath for a comprehensive dynamics review from anyone in this country. Our car culture is plagued by the notion of straight line performance = performance. I imagine we'll get a bunch of reviews praising the XR8 for its grunt and praising the SSV-R for its sophistication and technologies. I'm not sure how familiar you are with FGs (I see you have a BF) but I've been pushing the FG chassis as far as it'll go since they came out in '08. I live near some awesome roads so I get to drive the cars pretty comprehensively from a dynamics standpoint. I've spent some quality time with the R spec GT- I've compared it directly against my (at the time) FG XR6T with springs/shocks (custom valved), adjustable sway bars, bushes throughout, quality rubber etc. It was no comparison (no surprise). Comparing that same XR6T to a standard Redline VF was a revelation. Softer of course, but actually more capable. The way they hang on mid-corner is unbelievable. It's not until you drive them, then review the specs do you realise the extent to which the R Spec is out-gunned by the Redline's suspension hardware. One example is the rear sway bar which was upgraded to 19mm (from 18mm) in the R Spec. The Redline has a 28mm rear sway bar, up from 18 in the normal sedans. You can't even buy an aftermarket sway bar that large for a Falcon.

Now I'm not calling the R Spec setup bad, it's just that the Zeta II Redlines are extremely good. Once you take them off the highway onto a winding road you will understand just how competent they are. But like I said in my last post, different cars for different people. Nobody will be disappointed with an XR8, the R Spec tune is perfectly adequate to have a lot of fun. But I think my head will explode if I keep reading that the "R Spec" suspension is going to take down a Zeta II Redline. Quite frankly it's ridiculous.

The way you clarify the suspensions has me thinking that if the Ssv isn't MILES ahead on any track then it's a fail. After all, it's just a big engine on a horse and cart falcon xr8 vs a revolutionary fe2 SSV!
Can't wait for some track comparos. I wish they did the figure 8 andGforce test like the states do!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

The way you clarify the suspensions has me thinking that if the Ssv isn't MILES ahead on any track then it's a fail. After all, it's just a big engine on a horse and cart falcon xr8 vs a revolutionary fe2 SSV!
Can't wait for some track comparos. I wish they did the figure 8 andGforce test like the states do!

Depends on the track. On power circuits (which are arguably the most fun) the XR8 would smash the SSV. Unfortunately there aren't any roads (maybe except for NT) where we can legally drive at 200+ approaching bends etc.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Lol.....pretty sure it needs to make PROFIT....not sell twice as much......which it didn't and then some.

Neither did the Falcon though. What helped Ford was having better products across the rest of the range. If both companies had only Falcadores, which do you think would be in a better financial position? Remember that the Commodore is currently outselling Falcon by 5 to 1 and then some.

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Paragraphs are your friend but anyways....

When you say the XR8 was built for straight line speed, you conveniently forgot to mention the R-Spec suspension and wider rear tyres.

Yes, it destroys the Holden in a straight line but does the SSV Redline with FE2 suspension upgrade out-handle the XR8 ??

and the SS has less sophisticated engine and transmission, it has more gadgets on the dash, that's all imho

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Well firstly the Redline has it's own unique FE3 suspension, not FE2.

But of course they're just names. Like "R Spec". You know it's a cool name, but anyone who knows anything about suspension and in particular, the chassis of these two cars, knows that the "R spec" (which really should have been called S Spec) is not coming close to a Redline VF. We really need someone like Chris Harris or Carlos Lago to review these cars. I could start with the basics, like the FG continues to be a long chassis with a short wheelbase, poor weight distribution and a dicey IRS in contrast to Zeta's beautifully long wheelbase, perfect weight distribution and generation-ahead IRS. They are totally different beasts. While the FG hauls around a huge front overhang and heavy V8 over the front wheels, the VF has next to no overhang, the engine further back and lower, the wheels further forward and rearward with alloy panels at each end. What that means in the real world (fancy "R spec" monikers aside) is that VF has physics on its side. You cannot beat physics. This is what that difference looks like:

image

I recommend you read some of the comprehensive reviews of the Redline chassis from the states, written by proper automotive journalists with proper equipment for objective dynamics comparisons (unlike the garbage automotive journalism we get here). I could quote Car and Driver- "the SS’s Holden chassis is a monument to sports-sedan fundamentals", "with plenty of confidence, the SS’s lateral grip bests not only that from GM’s last Cadillac CTS-V, but the current Audi S6 and BMW M5 as well". I could tell you that the SS achieved the same figure 8 time as the 2015 Mustang GT. Or that it pulls more Gs than a MK7 GTI, or that it lapped quicker than an AWD E63 AMG, or that it decimated everything out of SRT's stable to the point where MT's review against the SRT 300 went as far as saying it wasn't even a comparison.

I'm not holding my breath for a comprehensive dynamics review from anyone in this country. Our car culture is plagued by the notion of straight line performance = performance. I imagine we'll get a bunch of reviews praising the XR8 for its grunt and praising the SSV-R for its sophistication and technologies. I'm not sure how familiar you are with FGs (I see you have a BF) but I've been pushing the FG chassis as far as it'll go since they came out in '08. I live near some awesome roads so I get to drive the cars pretty comprehensively from a dynamics standpoint. I've spent some quality time with the R spec GT- I've compared it directly against my (at the time) FG XR6T with springs/shocks (custom valved), adjustable sway bars, bushes throughout, quality rubber etc. It was no comparison (no surprise). Comparing that same XR6T to a standard Redline VF was a revelation. Softer of course, but actually more capable. The way they hang on mid-corner is unbelievable. It's not until you drive them, then review the specs do you realise the extent to which the R Spec is out-gunned by the Redline's suspension hardware. One example is the rear sway bar which was upgraded to 19mm (from 18mm) in the R Spec. The Redline has a 28mm rear sway bar, up from 18 in the normal sedans. You can't even buy an aftermarket sway bar that large for a Falcon.

Now I'm not calling the R Spec setup bad, it's just that the Zeta II Redlines are extremely good. Once you take them off the highway onto a winding road you will understand just how competent they are. But like I said in my last post, different cars for different people. Nobody will be disappointed with an XR8, the R Spec tune is perfectly adequate to have a lot of fun. But I think my head will explode if I keep reading that the "R Spec" suspension is going to take down a Zeta II Redline. Quite frankly it's ridiculous.

That's a big effort and attempt to justify SS still being in the game.
28mm rear sway? Overkill much?

R spec is set up as a perfect cross over between road and track, normal gt softer and more road focused. Thats how Ford do it, they focus on quick ROAD cars.

Redline might be good on a dead flat track, but take a car that stiff in the rear on a cross country Aussie road blat on our bumpy roads and I know which suspension would result in better rear world traction and grip.

First thing you do when grip is diminished when racing (at a track, there isnt the bumps, so its when wet) is loosen off the rear sway bar. Bigger ain't necessarily better if you want rear end traction. Aussie roads you don't want super stiff.

Redline is a niche product for holden that will result in better lap times at a track, but certainly not a better drive out on the roads, which is where we drive most of the time.

Perspective is key when comparing r spec suspension and redline, horses for courses, but r spec isn't inferior as you insinuate, what is better depends on its context surely.

My GTF with its rspec suspension was as quick across my back road route as the overly stiff 997 911 GT3 I just punted on the same roads two weeks ago.

Now on a track the GT3 would eat the GTF, but on Aussie roads, GTF with a similar power to weight as the GT3 was as good if not better than the GT3 which required more settling for balance, power down and safety reasons(especially with no ESP on the GT3) before full throttle input.

Handling with r spec is great, have some balance in your argument, it will sway more people to your view.

Anyway how about that power difference

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by uniacidz

Ok, now i do not have the latest cars to compare.
But happy to provide measurements on what i had and currently have.
No access to newer models anytime soon, someone else will have to help in that department.

All measurements in millimeters

Old EL XR6 (car is dead, long gone but have these measurements)
Head to Roof - 50mm
Bottom steering wheel to leg - 30mm

VX SS 2001 (current)
Head to Roof - 180mm
Bottom steering wheel to leg - 60mm

Other Measurements VX SS
Floor to Roof - 1000mm (front of windscreen roof lining to floor)
Bottom Seat Base (where back rest meets base) to Roof - 960mm
Inner of front Seat(where base meets backrest) to Floor Firewall(under accelerator) with seat along rail at furthest back position - 1240mm
Steering Wheel to Floor - High setting Point - 434mm
Steering Wheel to Floor - Low Setting Point - 373mm
Steering Wheel width - 380mm
Floor to sill - 58mm
Floor to Seat Base (rear bottom) - 110mm
Floor to top of dash - 750mm
Floor to top of door opening - 950mm
Floor to bottom of window - 640mm
Floor to top of window - 1300mm
Top Dash to Roof (angled measurment) - 360mm
Pillar A to B - 900mm
Pillar B to C - 920mm
Boot Depth - 1100mm
Boot Width - 1650mm
Rear Seat Belt extended length - 1400mm
Front seat belt extended length - 1800mm

Remembering atm it's a vxSS and an FG here's some more figures. Sorry I can't alter or mod others posts on iPad. Maybe a forum mod can adjust it or even move it to a better thread!

135mm
45mm

1045mm
980mm
1280mm
445mm
400mm
378mm
77mm
135mm
740mm
965mm
633mm
1300mm
375mm
890mm
953mm
Skipped the 2 seatbelt measurements....

Briefly they seem pretty close with the SS having 15mm more room from the seat to the wheel.
I feel there's deff something to be said for perspective with the SS door window not only higher, but a smaller opening.(22mm) surely giving you the slight feeling of being lower and more enclosed. Anyway it may be more suitable with similiar age models. Although the ford seat height has been an issue for some for along time!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Yep, we don't want that pesky 335 + over boost fact getting in the way here.

Sigh. When all you have is a hammer, the solution to every problem is a hammer.

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Sigh. When all you have is a hammer, the solution to every problem is a hammer.

So by your comment, you think xr8 is nothing but an engine, with no other redeeming qualities?

What do you want or expect from a 4 door family car? Transform into a 2 door lotus perhaps. Appreciate how good it is rather than pointless and baseless attack on another persons comment.

At one point Daniel you must have been proud to have an xr8, after all, you chose it for your username. Is this FGX xr8 so much worse than your xr8 that it deserves your " all it has is a hammer, SIGH" sarcasm

[SensationFG8]

Good to see so many stick up for the falcon. There is no need to try and belittle it.

Interesting that some chose to revert to name calling and that's acceptable.

[Freiherr]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Sigh. When all you have is a hammer, the solution to every problem is a hammer.

So the new XR8 should have been codenamed “Thor”. Hmm, now that's an idea for a car that hammers sll it's competitors.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Sigh. When all you have is a hammer, the solution to every problem is a hammer.

Sounds like someone got nailed!

[mik]

Despite any tiny handling advantage the commy has mostly on a track, on the road most people wont feel the difference driving at 6,7,8, tenths of the cars capability , the major difference they will feel however is the performance of the engine and that is where the fun factor really comes in, and the big ford has it in spades in that beautiful refined miami.....despite detractors calling the car a dinosaur.