Australia housing bubble

[Citroënbender]

Also on the ABC news website today.

I wonder what happened to this trio: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-...tion/101026362

[anobserver]

I used to work in banking and im amazed those loans get approved. Interest only on half a mill for a single income household?

This is an example of the mess that artificially prolonged low rates have brought. But while some are flipping, trading up and living their best lives, even the super funds have loaded up on property trusts, and noone bats an eyelid.

A mllion households in mortgage stress is bad news for the lenders, unless theyve packaged the low quality loans into bundles and securutised them. In which case the likes of blackrock will probably own big chunks of Australia soon.

Maybe therell be a national buyback scheme of distressed mortgages, funded by a 'temporary' one per cent levy....

[FTE217]

https://apple.news/ALe03ZR7HQciYK3zcb7uMtg


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[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by anobserver

I used to work in banking and im amazed those loans get approved. Interest only on half a mill for a single income household?

This is an example of the mess that artificially prolonged low rates have brought. But while some are flipping, trading up and living their best lives, even the super funds have loaded up on property trusts, and noone bats an eyelid.

A mllion households in mortgage stress is bad news for the lenders, unless theyve packaged the low quality loans into bundles and securutised them. In which case the likes of blackrock will probably own big chunks of Australia soon.

Maybe therell be a national buyback scheme of distressed mortgages, funded by a 'temporary' one per cent levy....

Your final point/suggestion would not surprise me, as it could be viewed like a vote buyer.

I also frequently wonder about overarching national legislation to allow conversion of titles into 99 year leases. Which conveniently meshes with your second-to-last suggestion.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Your final point/suggestion would not surprise me, as it could be viewed like a vote buyer.

I also frequently wonder about overarching national legislation to allow conversion of titles into 99 year leases. Which conveniently meshes with your second-to-last suggestion.

I have a hunch that this is to reduce passing on inherited wealth to ongoing generations. i.e. Your kids/grandkids will not own wealth in that property should you pass it on down to them.

[BA-XT]

For a period of not less than twenty minutes between 5:30PM and 7:30PM (8:30PM DST) on days of fair weather Sunday to Friday, it is expected that residents will progress forth from their homes to walk gently around the development, exchanging pleasantries and compliments with other residents."

Sorry I know this is an old post, but WTF. I have some questions.

Firstly, who would ever police this? If you're not out and walking will the local HOA knock on your door?

That is the most rediculous thing I've heard.

With these new estates that state driveways need to be at a certain angle, certain colours cannot be used ect, how long afterwards does it all get forgotten and possible pretty much build add ons and how they want to without anyone really caring?

About 5 years or pretty much after the estate is built?

[MrEL]

I can see it being approved for existing mortgages to be rewritten and buffered out to 50 years.
Payments would drop back to the levels people signed up for and they will happily pay it forever knowing its costing them a crap load more coin in the end but they still have somewhere to live.
Banks will go for it because suddenly they get an extra 20 years of interest out of people and they are not stuck trying to move on a house for recovery in a dead market.
The government will rubber stamp it because they will be the hero's that saved the day by giving relief to voters.........

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by BA-XT

For a period of not less than twenty minutes between 5:30PM and 7:30PM (8:30PM DST) on days of fair weather Sunday to Friday, it is expected that residents will progress forth from their homes to walk gently around the development, exchanging pleasantries and compliments with other residents."

Sorry I know this is an old post, but WTF. I have some questions.

Firstly, who would ever police this? If you're not out and walking will the local HOA knock on your door?

That is the most rediculous thing I've heard.

With these new estates that state driveways need to be at a certain angle, certain colours cannot be used ect, how long afterwards does it all get forgotten and possible pretty much build add ons and how they want to without anyone really caring?

About 5 years or pretty much after the estate is built?

Estates are just the beginning. The idea is to get used to 15min cities worldwide.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/...ty-stickiness/

[Poetic Justice]

I don't see anything wrong with that if you're happy to be in that type of environment.

I'm very happy being in a somewhat rural suburb these days with two girls under 7.. but when those girls are ready to leave the nest, I won't be hesitating to move back to inner city suburbs like Fitzroy/Collingwood etc subject to affordability.

[T3rminator]

Right on cue

https://www.news.com.au/finance/real...03d97578d58254

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by That article T3rminator linked

But it was Ms Boylett’s advice for Millennials that truly sparked uproar, as she suggested young people give up holidays, nights out and buying new technology so they can get onto the property ladder.

“They (Millennials) want, you know, the latest mobile phone, the latest iPad, they want a nice car, they want to go on holidays, they still want to go out to restaurants – they pay $20 or $30 for a drink if they go out, have a nice time,’ she said.

I mean, she's got a point, does she not?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I mean, she's got a point, does she not?

If one assumes that is a true representation of what young home owners are doing, then yes.

[Poetic Justice]

Young renters, you mean? lol

But yeah, perhaps a generalisation but I don't think I'd be going on too much of a limb if I suggested that the younger crew live more liberally than their parents did at the same age. This isn't just necessarily choice so to speak though, because their parents traditionally had kids younger and therefore different responsibilities.

The only thing to add to that though, is that if they want to live a liberal lifestyle, just be sure not to complain about any inability to get in to the property market.

[FTE217]

Whats your POV on it T3 ?
Curious to see.
That apple article I posted earlier quotes GenX are in the good position interestingly.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Whats your POV on it T3 ?
Curious to see.
That apple article I posted earlier quotes GenX are in the good position interestingly.

So we are talking about comparison of housing affordability yeh? The apple article starts off with "single mum in 1995" and I already know its going to be some boomer telling the current generation they have it easier

If you look at the data, rather than articles which will always have some bias depending on who the article quoting, current generations have it tougher. This is base on income to loan ratio alone. Add to it other cost of living pressures (e.g. insurance costs), I don't think its a fair representation to say the woes of the younguns are due to their lattes and smashed avo addictions

https://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliam...gaffordability

Having said that, I do still think there are affordable housings around, but just not in the most desirable areas where everyone wants to get into. I think sacrifices have to be made there, especially with many organisations now allowing semi permanent work from home.

[GO FURTHER]

Who had it harder... Boomers, Generation X or Millennials?

I think this chart, sums it up fairly well.

The 3 "points in time", represent the 3 generations above.

[blueoval]

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/perso...onth-c-9678235

0.25% Increase

[FTE217]

TBH T3, I hardly read much crap nowadays for as mentioned, depends by whom, the bias yaddayadda - journalism today is sensationailsm/click bait as they say more than anything else.
Reality tv is/has been popular, why can't the media put out some "real" good/positive millineal stories instead of beating this BB's GenX etc BS.
I've observed some hitting their goals from hard work, marriage, buying 1st home, first kid and as you say, WFH is a whole new perspective to working life and your future.
Others trying but struggling, not everyone is a saver or will be a home owner no matter the Gen.

My observations is having 3 kids 30/22/18yrs, friends of theirs I get to know, relos niece's nephews etcetc...more so real world observations and listenning.
All these people have had various levels of upbringings/single parenting and varied support and not.

IMO what BB's considered tuff, tuff applies to following Gens of the times, thats how it is.
The silver spooners are no different past to present then you have the movers and shakers do'ers and the its all too hard %.
Thats life.
Each Gen have their mountain/s be it Insurnace, be it interest rates, be it market prices you name it.......the goal posts always change.
Correct there is affordable housing around, some can't accept moving further than half hour drive let alone an hour lol......
Main thing is is getting yourself in, thats the mental sacrifice more than anything else compared to avo's latte's etc.....

Another look I have is, so be it if less affordable 1st home housing is getting out of reach, just get on with working and living and see where you end up.
Can't beat yourself up forever nor blame past or present, just live as long as you have health, roof over your head eat socialise just keep looking ahead.
Many other countries isn't about having the anvil of a mortgage.
Keep looking at links of reasons why its better or worse might as well shoot yourself in the foot let alone the head, all bad news.

[BENT_8]

Before rents started going crazy id agree that its not such a bad option but now you'd have to be crazy to consider life long renting.
Im glad we decided to jump back into ownership when we did, the build has been delayed due to shortages so we'll have to sign another lease in the meantime which will come with an increase to just under $400pw whereas the mortgage will be a bit over half of that.

[BA-XT]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8fHAVju/

For those with tiktock she explains how much harder it is now to get into property now.

My mortgage has gone up nearly $800 a month and we have a relatively "small" loan.

[Citroënbender]

So… Why aren’t people taking lodgers or tenants to support their mortgage? You’d think it was a win-win.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

So… Why aren’t people taking lodgers or tenants to support their mortgage? You’d think it was a win-win.

Our house has a granny flat upstairs above the garage.
We haven't had a Tennant in it for years. Who wants a random living near you?
But we are currently giving it a bit of a renovation and am going to put a Tennant in it.
We don't need too to pay the bills , but with the price of Sydney rents at the moment , in all honesty it's a pretty fair whack of easy money that's currently sitting there doing nothing

[zilo]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Who had it harder... Boomers, Generation X or Millennials?

I think this chart, sums it up fairly well.

The 3 "points in time", represent the 3 generations above.

image

The percentage of monthly wage to service a mortgage seems approximately the same 1990-NOW

Of course the devil is in the detail with those numbers.

Two incomes in 1990 only $54k ? In Sydney?....NAhhhhh
I recall earning $80k on my own.

I also recall NOT having a theatre/multimedia room, NOT having a 75 inch flat screen, NOT driving a new car or two new cars.

I also recall banks completely disregarding a spousal income in the mortgage stress test.

shock...horror to all the girlie princesses these days.

flame suit on.

[Citroënbender]

Indeed, women were still seen as fecund liabilities. My parents, as New Australians, were nearly refused a loan in the sixties due to perceived inadequate savings. A canny friend snooped on the issue and topped up their account with a spur-of-the-moment $3K cash deposit, the revised letter of credit sorted things.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Indeed, women were still seen as fecund liabilities. My parents, as New Australians, were nearly refused a loan in the sixties due to perceived inadequate savings. A canny friend snooped on the issue and topped up their account with a spur-of-the-moment $3K cash deposit, the revised letter of credit sorted things.

I was in the same boat with the bank in regard to savings, they changed the goal posts every time I applied. In the end I sold my pride and joy to secure the loan.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Who had it harder... Boomers, Generation X or Millennials?

I think this chart, sums it up fairly well.

The 3 "points in time", represent the 3 generations above.

image

Got to say from my own 1st loan experience in 1990.
A 2bed semi in Petersham.
Kitchen was like a galley and only cold water - bathroom was up the creek, backyard the size to swing a cat and on street parking.
Loan was $153k plus the other additional charges.
$20k deposit @ 17%.
All our work doing Reno’s through trade contacts, wall cracks you name it no bells and whistles.
Both working, mum in-law baby sitter from the get go why buying close too in-laws, hated the area but had to be or buy way out west afford a house.
It was crawl like mad before you walk.
1 second hand car for wife i had a company car.


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[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Got to say from my own 1st loan experience in 1990.
A 2bed semi in Petersham.
Kitchen was like a galley and only cold water - bathroom was up the creek, backyard the size to swing a cat and on street parking.
Loan was $153k plus the other additional charges.
$20k deposit @ 17%.
All our work doing Reno’s through trade contacts, wall cracks you name it no bells and whistles.
Both working, mum in-law baby sitter from the get go why buying close too in-laws, hated the area but had to be or buy way out west afford a house.
It was crawl like mad before you walk.
1 second hand car for wife i had a company car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Going by the chart I posted earlier, I would say that Millennials will have it the hardest.
Simply because their debt-to-income ratio is more than double that of the Boomers.

Let's face it, many Boomers were able to easily pay out their relatively small mortgages (especially once interest rates dropped from the initial high 17% they were paying for a few years to the much lower 5 - 8%), over the term of their loans, well before the 25 - 30 year term finished.

This allowed many of them to invest in other areas, such as an investment property, shares or buy luxury items, once their mortgages were paid out, and build their wealth.

In contrast, it is unlikely that many Millennials will be able to pay out their mortgages early, so will be faced with the ongoing struggle of monthly mortgage stress for a much longer term than the Boomers.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Who had it harder... Boomers, Generation X or Millennials?

I think this chart, sums it up fairly well.

It assumes someone now is in a position to put down a 20% deposit. They're not, so add at least $100-150k to the amount borrowed, plus LMI. And borrowing >>80% LVR means an interest rate closer to 6% today.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Going by the chart I posted earlier, I would say that Millennials will have it the hardest.
Simply because their debt-to-income ratio is more than double that of the Boomers.

Let's face it, many Boomers were able to easily pay out their relatively small mortgages (especially once interest rates dropped from the initial high 17% they were paying for a few years to the much lower 5 - 8%), over the term of their loans, well before the 25 - 30 year term finished.

This allowed many of them to invest in other areas, such as an investment property, shares or buy luxury items, once their mortgages were paid out, and build their wealth.

In contrast, it is unlikely that many Millennials will be able to pay out their mortgages early, so will be faced with the ongoing struggle of monthly mortgage stress for a much longer term than the Boomers.

I recall we borrowed on 90% of the house value and paid a penalty.
In saying that GF, thats a pretty general statement as mentioned of today saying Boomers easily pay out their loans.
Sorry not so, maybe for that usual small % but not the majority imo despite the differences of cost of living etcetc.....
I've known people who have just paid off their mortgage - my father a Grp 1 Boomer payed off his mortgage in his late 60's.
Those days you'd put tv's on credit via the dept store etcetc.....
Sure some over time could invest more using their equity same as today.
Building up to a deposit is the hard part, same went for us who doesn't struggle, took us 2yrs min whereas my eldest has taken 4yrs of hard saving (over $150k, go figure correct b0son) with his partner now ready to buy but imo that period could have been shorter for they did have a lifestyle way more than we had.
I have faith in them once in the door and will forge on, flip the property in say 5yrs.
In saying that lets face it this way as you quote, there are manymany Boomers who have failed as well and have nothing ! living off welfare, buckets loads of them.
There will also be a % millenials who will do veryvery well, a % who will plod along, a % like all before never own a home.

[PG2]

I am not saying that any generation has ever had it easy to buy a home. Each generation has had a set of different challenges to overcome in buying a home.

In my own very humble opinion, the only thing that stays constant is that you have to become a tight **** when saving for a deposit. That is not to say that you still can't live, but you have to be smarter in your spending.

I am not preaching this is the bible on how to save money but here are a couple of things that could help;

Shop for specials, cheapest prices for groceries
If something is on 'special' then buy two, three or four of it - just be careful not to buy too much that it will go out of date. Shop between the supermarkets - I know that this won't apply to everyone, but Woolies, Coles and Aldi are generally located very close to each other.

Mince, sausages etc are not glamourous but there are many ways to make it interesting.

Not only keep your phone for a little longer but reduce your phone plan
Have a look at your phone plan. Check to see if the data is used each month. Maybe consider looking at ways to reduce the amount of data that is used. People would be surprised on how they can reduce their download data.

Shop around for cheap petrol
I don't mean drive around aimlessly for cheap petrol but if you come across a service station that is cheaper than everywhere else you have seen and have less than half a tank, maybe consider topping up. Also consider do you really need to drive somewhere - will you be going that way later in the week anyway?

Peak/Non-Peak electricity
Have a look at when you are using your appliances etc. I'm going to sound like my Dad here but turn off all lights that are not in use. Also, consider your heating - throw another jumper or blanket on instead.

Take your lunch to work
I know, it doesn't sound sexy but I have always thought leftovers taste better the next day. Try making buying your lunch as a treat and do it only once a week, maybe on a Friday for example.

Have something to eat before going out
Don't go out on an empty stomach. You will be less tempted to buy something while out.

With a lot of the above, most people will already know and may have been mentioned in this thread and not all of the above will apply to everyone.



Does anyone else have any hints on how to save money?