According to Drive Ranger XL and XLS are not selling?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Buyers take one look at the price and move on, be that fleet, government or private customers. Ford are simply being crossed off the list at first glance. If you are not brand loyal like I am or not are inclined to pour over each and every specification, then you are just not looking at Ford at this end of the market.

Fleet pricing is completely different to advertised price.

Hint: make the base model seem expensive, then people wont mind spending a bit more for a premium model.
Especially when you're talking 3 year leases where the resale of the upper model will be a better percentage.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

My Brother bought the current Ssangyong 12 months ago to tow his 3t van, no trouble at all so far.
Mate around the corner bought a new GWM just after we considered one and decided on a used Ranger for same coin, again, he's had no trouble at all and with almost 3k to spend on negating the EGR cooler failure possibility, a catch can, intake clean, new glow plugs and tune on the used Ranger, Im starting to think the GWM with warranty would have been the better buy for the k's im doing.

So why do you need to do these mods to the Ford, yet not the Ssangyog or the GWM or any other car for that matter??

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Same thing is happening with the bigger 4WD utes. People are now buying the Isuzu NPS 75/155 with tray and super singles, suspension etc from places like all terrain warriors which is cheaper than a decked out Toyota 70 series.
Tows 4.5 tonne , much bigger payload, seats 6, light truck reliability and everything is beefier. Yes it’s not as comfortable but so much more room and I see so many of these 4WDing now.

Has a 5.2L engine too which is pretty impressive for a 4 cylinder engine

I think one of our members in WA has a 4x4 Canter as his daily - the Isuzu NPS comes in a 4500KG GVM as well which you can drive on car licence.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Amarok has never been a high seller anyway. They will be premium priced over Ranger too.




The base models are needed for government sales and fleet orders. Probably very few private buyers, so they would be the lowest profit utes they sell. Hence the lack of desire to sell a heap of them, when they can sell tonnes of high profit top spec models to private buyers.

The answer to the question is always $$$$$$, it's not hard to figure this out.

I'm finding the logic around the base model Ranger a bit strange,

A) Make a base model Ranger for government and fleet sales
B) But price it well over the odds, so governments and fleets don't buy it,
C) Even if they did want to buy it - we don't want to dedicate production capacity to making a lower profit model because we sell more high spec models at a better profit margin.

Why even offer it in the Australian market at all? They don't even advertise it on their website either, you can't even build/price single cab Rangers. I haven't even seen a single one on the road so far.

I think its a case of where Ford Australia wants to position itself in our market, its the premium option for a ute, they don't really want to make the povvo spec work vehicles, so why even offer it to our market?

It seems like they're doing everything possible to sabotage it on purpose.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Has a 5.2L engine too which is pretty impressive for a 4 cylinder engine

I think one of our members in WA has a 4x4 Canter as his daily - the Isuzu NPS comes in a 4500KG GVM as well which you can drive on car licence.

5.2L 4cyl? - made me take a look

https://www.isuzu.com.au/Media/Isuzu...RK1443_V10.pdf

Yet it only produces 114kw 419NM at fairly high revs for such a big displacement Diesel.

strange engine

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm finding the logic around the base model Ranger a bit strange,

A) Make a base model Ranger for government and fleet sales
B) But price it well over the odds, so governments and fleets don't buy it,
C) Even if they did want to buy it - we don't want to dedicate production capacity to making a lower profit model because we sell more high spec models at a better profit margin.

Why even offer it in the Australian market at all? They don't even advertise it on their website either, you can't even build/price single cab Rangers. I haven't even seen a single one on the road so far.

I think its a case of where Ford Australia wants to position itself in our market, its the premium option for a ute, they don't really want to make the povvo spec work vehicles, so why even offer it to our market?

It seems like they're doing everything possible to sabotage it on purpose.

Because you want fleet business for volume, and reliable sales via contracts. Then their are image fleet sales like police paddy wagons etc.

Those sales are pretty much recession proof, and keep a steady buying base.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

5.2L 4cyl? - made me take a look

https://www.isuzu.com.au/Media/Isuzu...RK1443_V10.pdf

Yet it only produces 114kw 419NM at fairly high revs for such a big displacement Diesel.

strange engine

truck engine are all about torque.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

truck engine are all about torque.

Yeah I know but its got less than a 2L Ranger

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Yeah I know but its got less than a 2L Ranger

The same engine comes in a higher state of tune in one of the other variations of those Isuzu trucks.

140KW/513NM in its other state of tune, its getting close to that VDJ79 that everyone loves

I'm curious on the differences between the 4HK1-TCC and the 4HK1-TCR which is the limp wristed one.

The same engine is also available in 154KW/726NM and 177KW/765NM:

https://content.isuzu.com.au/news-me...ner-than-this/

Makes me wonder why its in limp wristed form a couple times there.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Because you want fleet business for volume, and reliable sales via contracts. Then their are image fleet sales like police paddy wagons etc.

Those sales are pretty much recession proof, and keep a steady buying base.

But then everyone has been saying that they won't waste time building low spec vehicles because it takes production capacity away from the high spec models which are more profitable.

You can't have it both ways, you can't have recession proof, steady buying base from these low spec models, if you don't actually make the vehicles for them to buy.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

So why do you need to do these mods to the Ford, yet not the Ssangyog or the GWM or any other car for that matter??

New, put a catch can on it to help keep it clean and warranty covers any failures, flip it before it runs out, start again.
Buying used, even though mine had 90k's, immaculate one owner, no mods, still got 110k worth of soot and oil blocking the egr and intake..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

But then everyone has been saying that they won't waste time building low spec vehicles because it takes production capacity away from the high spec models which are more profitable.

You can't have it both ways, you can't have recession proof, steady buying base from these low spec models, if you don't actually make the vehicles for them to buy.

That's incorrect, no one is saying they won't build any. It's about getting the production mix right, and they are continually adapting it. But it takes lead time with suppliers to do it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That's incorrect, no one is saying they won't build any. It's about getting the production mix right, and they are continually adapting it. But it takes lead time with suppliers to do it.

This is massive, beyond their wildest dream. Monthly revenue from Ranger
is virtually two years of FPV sales revenue. Maybe that’s an unfair comparison
but Ford has really hit pay dirt with the new Ranger and promising signs for Everest.

Give the right ute the right engines and buyers do the rest.

Is VW releasing the 2.3 EB Amorok locally?
If so, that might spark an interesting discussion………

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Is VW releasing the 2.3 EB Amorok locally?
If so, that might spark an interesting discussion………

Yes they are but only as an option in the highest model. It will be interesting to see how it goes. They are saying it has generated a lot of interest. Time will tell if that converts to sales. They might have nailed the timing with the price of diesel.

[CyberWasp]

What is happening to the 5 star rating of most of the competitors come Jan 1?
Don't they lose their 5 star rating?
Does this push fleets and govt departments into buying the Ranger, Isuzu or Mazda?
If so, it may be Ford laughing for the next year or so even on the pov packs.
Not sure how this will play out with the Health & Safety Issue and 5 star rated cars.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What is happening to the 5 star rating of most of the competitors come Jan 1?
Don't they lose their 5 star rating?
Does this push fleets and govt departments into buying the Ranger, Isuzu or Mazda?
If so, it may be Ford laughing for the next year or so even on the pov packs.
Not sure how this will play out with the Health & Safety Issue and 5 star rated cars.

I can't see Toyota overlooking this issue.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I can't see Toyota overlooking this issue.

Only need to look at what they did to make LC70 comply.
Let's not do anything and just increase the GVM so the rules don't apply!

LC70 wagon gvm increases by nearly 500kg!
That's 1250kg payload!

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I can't see Toyota overlooking this issue.

The cynic In Me suggests this is why they stopped taking Orders for the 79 Series..!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What is happening to the 5 star rating of most of the competitors come Jan 1?
Don't they lose their 5 star rating?
Does this push fleets and govt departments into buying the Ranger, Isuzu or Mazda?
If so, it may be Ford laughing for the next year or so even on the pov packs.
Not sure how this will play out with the Health & Safety Issue and 5 star rated cars.

Crash testing required in the past six years or the rating gets downgraded in alignment with the latest ANCSP scoring system.

This is gonna be brutal for tradies who ordered something nine months ago and maybe excluded from client sites because no five star

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What is happening to the 5 star rating of most of the competitors come Jan 1?
Don't they lose their 5 star rating?
Does this push fleets and govt departments into buying the Ranger, Isuzu or Mazda?
If so, it may be Ford laughing for the next year or so even on the pov packs.
Not sure how this will play out with the Health & Safety Issue and 5 star rated cars.

It will help, cause some fleets will instantly exclude any vehicles without 5 stars.

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I can't see Toyota overlooking this issue.

They already have, the Prado loses it's 5 star rating.







The funny thing about this whole debate about XL and XLS selling is in the surrounding blocks to my house, there are 4 XL/XLS new Gen's, all white with 3 on them having service bodies on them, and zero models above XLS ie no XLT's, Wildtraks or Raptors yet. Heaps of those in P375, but none in P703 yet. That could be an availability thing though, my Wildtrak could still be a year away but I could get an XL/XLS tomorrow if I wanted one.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

New, put a catch can on it to help keep it clean and warranty covers any failures, flip it before it runs out, start again.
Buying used, even though mine had 90k's, immaculate one owner, no mods, still got 110k worth of soot and oil blocking the egr and intake..

You spend 3K to do this?
not what I asked though, would you be doing this to any diesel? or just the Ford.

[barra240t]

Wow can't believe 8 pages worth of comments regarding XL/XLS, didn't think there would be so much passion over base models?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Wow can't believe 8 pages worth of comments regarding XL/XLS, didn't think there would be so much passion over base models?

We want to see Ford's 4x2 Ranger numbers come up

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Wow can't believe 8 pages worth of comments regarding XL/XLS, didn't think there would be so much passion over base models?

what's more surprising is it hasn't converted to another EV Thread

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good work, we've confirmed they do actually exist

Now whats the drive away price, what are the options and how come these ones don't have trays on them

The headlights look like 7"x5" semi sealed beam assemblies packaged inside a fancy housing

Anyone know how much extra for the Auto..??

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2030/?Cr=1..??

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The funny thing about this whole debate about XL and XLS selling is in the surrounding blocks to my house, there are 4 XL/XLS new Gen's, all white with 3 on them having service bodies on them, and zero models above XLS ie no XLT's, Wildtraks or Raptors yet. Heaps of those in P375, but none in P703 yet. That could be an availability thing though, my Wildtrak could still be a year away but I could get an XL/XLS tomorrow if I wanted one.

I see more next gen XLT/XL/XLS in my are than anything else. There are a few Wildtrak's, and 1 Raptor in my estate but right now I see way more the lower based (XLT the most, with XLS second and a few XL's) which is interesting, and probably at least partially caused by availability.

I could get an XLT V6 straight away. My dealer even has an XLT V6 in Sedona Orange (my ordered colour) sitting in his showroom unsold, ready to go and has had it for at least a week. They also have a grey one arrived not yet with them unsold and a white one on the water. All unsold ready to go. He keeps bloody offering the Sedona Orange one to me for $70k D/a...lol

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

You spend 3K to do this?
not what I asked though, would you be doing this to any diesel? or just the Ford.

$2800 for intake and egr clean, new glow plugs, delete egr cooler and replumb, catch can install, new fuel filter and coolant change, plus dyno tune.

Any used diesel would be clogged up with 110k's on it if it didnt have preventative measures from day 1, yes.
The egr issue is due to failures on Rangers, not sure about other brands as its irrelevant to me.
Point is, buying new for the same coin eliminates the cost of repairs thanks to the warranty so its just a case of install the catch can and drive it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Anyone know how much extra for the Auto..??

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2030/?Cr=1..??

Oof - $53K DA.

https://www.trucksales.com.au/items/...AG-AD-16699032

EDIT: Didn't notice that your listing was for 4x4

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

I see more next gen XLT/XL/XLS in my are than anything else. There are a few Wildtrak's, and 1 Raptor in my estate but right now I see way more the lower based (XLT the most, with XLS second and a few XL's) which is interesting, and probably at least partially caused by availability.

I could get an XLT V6 straight away. My dealer even has an XLT V6 in Sedona Orange (my ordered colour) sitting in his showroom unsold, ready to go and has had it for at least a week. They also have a grey one arrived not yet with them unsold and a white one on the water. All unsold ready to go. He keeps bloody offering the Sedona Orange one to me for $70k D/a...lol

Funny, I'm seeing more and more RAM's and imported F150 getting around here than the new Rangers but there are a lot of large farms and horsey people in this area pulling goosenecks.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

$2800 for intake and egr clean, new glow plugs, delete egr cooler and replumb, catch can install, new fuel filter and coolant change, plus dyno tune.

Any used diesel would be clogged up with 110k's on it if it didnt have preventative measures from day 1, yes.
The egr issue is due to failures on Rangers, not sure about other brands as its irrelevant to me.
Point is, buying new for the same coin eliminates the cost of repairs thanks to the warranty so its just a case of install the catch can and drive it.

So it would seem to me the best bet for a lower specced Ranger would be a 140-150 kw bigger 4 or small V6 petrol.No catch cans for those that THINK every diesel should have one.no 3-4 thousand dollar injector replacements.no expensive fuel filters etc.just regular $300 dollar 15000 km services.Sell it for $40k DA?probably sell thousands