Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[2011G6E]

Back when the Commodore first came out, and for some time afterwoods, the general feeling was that the Commodore was a "drivers car" and the Falcon was your nice, staid, average "family car"...solid, dependable...but hardly exciting.
Perhaps that's linked to, as you say, the linking of the very recognisable Brock face to the brand for many years? Who did Ford use? A TV advert of Moffat,Bond, and some others standing there while an XC Falcon carved through witches hats behind him rolling like an oil tanker in a heavy sea? Haven't really seenany motor sport names linked to them in advertising since...

[BFZ Wagon]

It's definitely the perception thing that is putting people off. I'm always getting into debates with people who think any Ford is crap and Holden's are the only thing. When I do find a Ford fan, I nearly fall over out of sheer shock.

I would love my next car to be a new XR6T, F6, GT or Territory AWD TDCi but the main reason (at this stage) is that I just can't afford it.
Hell, if I had the money to do it, I would get all 4.

I know I want my next car to be another Ford and it has to be a large one as I'm a large bloke and small cars are uncomfortable for me. They also make me feel like a giant in a kiddy/clown car.

So for now, it would only be a B series Falcon as that's probably all I could afford at the time and I really like driving them and I find them comfortable.
Hmm, now what was the other main important fact on why I would buy another Falcon?? Oh yeah that's right, It's made right here in Australia.

Mind you, if i had the money tomorrow, I'd be out to the dealer in a flash to get a new XR6 or whatever I could decide upon. Unfortunately, I wouldn't get a G6/G6E etc as I don't really like the look of the front. XR's/FPV's just look nicer. (in my opinion)

I really wish that sales would pick up. Here's hoping that the LPi and the Ecoboost help with sales.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Back when the Commodore first came out, and for some time afterwoods, the general feeling was that the Commodore was a "drivers car" and the Falcon was your nice, staid, average "family car"...solid, dependable...but hardly exciting.
Perhaps that's linked to, as you say, the linking of the very recognisable Brock face to the brand for many years? Who did Ford use? A TV advert of Moffat,Bond, and some others standing there while an XC Falcon carved through witches hats behind him rolling like an oil tanker in a heavy sea? Haven't really seenany motor sport names linked to them in advertising since...

Don't really agree on that. Your talking about the good days of ford when the X series right up to the XF ( even with no V8) was very popular. Many cases beating Holden very regulary in sales. They were always extremely popular with the rural community where 90% of farmers had a Ford because they are realiable and could tow a crap load. This was before 4x4's took over as a work hack and doubled as the family commuter. Fairlanes and LTD's were massive then with the majority in country towns. Fords network of dealers were also found in every smallish town.

Not everyone buys cars because they are advertised by drivers and wins at Bathurst but don't forget. Those large 'oil tankers' were doing very well at the time, Moffat was the pin up boy and then followed by Dick

[F6E]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Totally agree with this point. That's why my Mrs drives a fairmont. Yes a peugoet gti or mini cooper s is cooler but I want my Mrs (and me) to be safe. Sometimes accidents are other peoples fault and unavoidable.

But unfortunately most people dont think like us. They are penny pinchers at the expense of safety. For a couple of bucks a week.

Bigger cars are not automatically safer by virtue of their mass
Id rather have my Mrs in a 5 star, modern Peugoet than a 90's tech big car...
seen this video of the "safe-as-houses" Volvo tank v's tiny Renault compact in a head on ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by F6E

Bigger cars are not automatically safer by virtue of their mass
Id rather have my Mrs in a 5 star, modern Peugoet than a 90's tech big car...
seen this video of the "safe-as-houses" Volvo tank v's tiny Renault compact in a head on ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

If you compare cars of the same vintage or at least same price to buy, the bigger car will in most circumstances be safer.

Compare a 05 ba ford with a 05 peugoet gti? Which would you want your mrs driving in the unfortunate event of a crash? Both cars are rated 4 star ancap.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

If you compare cars of the same vintage or at least same price to buy, the bigger car will in most circumstances be safer.

Compare a 05 ba ford with a 05 peugoet gti? Which would you want your mrs driving in the unfortunate event of a crash? Both cars are rated 4 star ancap.

So it really doesnt matter which one she is in then does it if they are both 4 star.
Point is moot.

[jphanna]

Of the big aussie built family cars, I had 2 commodores, 2 falcons and one valiant. I had a few jap cars along the way also. I am no diehard of any brand in particular, and the only reason I got a VE at the moment is because the FG was still a year out, still and I wanted the latest model car on offer.

So with that background, what I am about to say may upset a few ford diehards, but it may also turn out to be true. I hope not but its hard not to see it coming….

Over the last 50 years there have been a few models that have been known for the wrong reasons. EVERY brand of car has them, no exceptions. But the topic of this thread relates to fords falcon in particular. History has shown prior to the FG, that there have been 3 models with a ‘troubled’ reputation.

XK – suspension failures
EA – build quality and resale
AU – styling of base models and resale

This brings us to the FG. Lets look at some facts.

Road reports have been in favour of the FG right from its release. The LPG model stopped it from winning COTY? That was a bit rough, for sure, but its not a deal breaker as far as public is concerned.

Reliability – nothing unusual wrong there.
Fuel economy – better than holden
Power – better than holden
Build quality – nothing unusual for a big aussie built car. VE is no better.
Styling – it looks like a updated BA/F from a distance, BUT, you cant blame ford for not going BOLD again (ala VZ toVE) as they paid the price with AU, the last time they tried ‘bold’.

But one thing is for sure, it will be known in the industry as the most underperforming of ALL the falcons to date, in direct comparison to Holden product (from 60’s till now).

It it marketing or styling? I think it’s the styling. The buying public out there seem to be very reserved with the FG.

I personally love the G6E and the XR models. My son wants an FGXR6 turbo, and I tell him that it’s a great car. I don’t want him to get a jap riceburner. ALL his friends want commodores though…..

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

agreed 100%

Many of our family friends wont touch a falcon, but as soon as they hop in our BA, they can't comment on enough on how nice a car it is to ride in

sorry guys that was supposed to read " They can't comment enough on how nice a car it is to ride in "

[Falc'man]

We knew what meant.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

i agree with what you're saying and it demonstrates just how much European and Asian car divisions
have listened to buyers who now demand more utility and flexibility of space and carrying capacity,
a large SEDAN is very limited these days, hence my suggestion Falcon become a 5-door hatchback.
A slight change needing considerable engineering but yielding a much more usable vehicle

Don't say 5-door. Say.... Sportback.

Yeah....

[buickman]

In the last year and a half I've purchased two new cars a FG XR650th for myself and last month purchased an updated Mazda 3 for the wife. I don't know why people are complaining about quality on the Falcons as I've had no issues with the car and it returns mid 7lts to100kms on the H/way in fuel consumption.
The Mazda 3 is a very easy car to live with and the wife loves driving it also has a decent resale value so I can see why it performed well in sales as it’s in a good price range as well.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by buickman

In the last year and a half I've purchased two new cars a FG XR650th for myself and last month purchased an updated Mazda 3 for the wife. I don't know why people are complaining about quality on the Falcons as I've had no issues with the car and it returns mid 7lts to100kms on the H/way in fuel consumption.
The Mazda 3 is a very easy car to live with and the wife loves driving it also has a decent resale value so I can see why it performed well in sales as it’s in a good price range as well.

FG is a big improvement in quality over the BA-BF. The quality figures don't lie. Big improvement in TGW's, at one point it was class leading, better than Commodore and Aurion. I'd assume its still the same but I haven't seen the comparison lately.

[basteve]

This question is more appropriate in a non Ford forum to answer!

[Fireblade]

The fact is the Falcon is not well liked any more, history has some bearing on that, dropping the V8 in the 80's killed the racing enthusiast, most Joe Publics consider it to be a dinosaur that chews fuel like no end, us enthusiast know different but Ford don't market to the public the fuel efficiency they are getting nowadays. Women in general prefer small cars, Holden are in your face with advertising and so have got the attention of the must have macho man image, add peer pressure by your mates who are all Holden freaks and suddenly you find yourself behind the wheel of a Holden. I have only Holden close mates, they will tell me when they go for a ride in my car how nice it is and how well it goes but owning nothing but Holden is akin to sacrilege, I'm not easily swayed though and enjoy my Fords but on the other hand I also like their Holdens, other than the love of my F6 I actually can't tell you why I don't have a Holden.

[IDT]

Would Model confusion have anything to do with it?
A mazda 6 is a mazda 6, mazda 3 is a mazda 3 completely different car as is the rest of the range and then you option that model
But a falcon is what?
XT is a model
XR is a model
G6 is a model
G6E and so on
Then you have limited options
Ask the average joe (non car enthusiast) what the difference is...
Now imagine being that average joe and going in to a car yard and having a salesman explain all the differences in the limited time you are there.............
Then walk across to Mazda..............
Most non falcodore manufacturers build a car to suit the segment, for far too long both Ford and holden have tried fill every segment with falconadore. And that has come back to haunt them....

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by WAForce8

Would Model confusion have anything to do with it?
A mazda 6 is a mazda 6, mazda 3 is a mazda 3 completely different car as is the rest of the range and then you option that model
But a falcon is what?
XT is a model
XR is a model
G6 is a model
G6E and so on
Then you have limited options
Ask the average joe (non car enthusiast) what the difference is...
Now imagine being that average joe and going in to a car yard and having a salesman explain all the differences in the limited time you are there.............
Then walk across to Mazda..............
Most non falcodore manufacturers build a car to suit the segment, for far too long both Ford and holden have tried fill every segment with falconadore. And that has come back to haunt them....

How is Mazda any different? There's the base Mazda 6 'Touring' hatch, sedan and wagon. There's a diesel hatch and wagon, and there's a top of the range 'Luxury Sports' hatch. Mazda 3 models consists of 'Neo', 'Maxx Sport', 'MZR-CD' (diesel), 'SP20', 'SP25' and 'MPS'.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

The fact is the Falcon is not well liked any more,

i don't think its a problem unique to falcon. sales figures have shown a pretty consistant gap between commodore and falcon and both are trending downward. commodore sold less than 3000 units for the 2nd month in a row and all the ads i see are about them trying to sell 2011 plate stock.

maybe i'm a glass half full kind of guy. in 6-12 months we'll look back and laugh at all the doom and gloom comments.

falcon has a definite stay of exectution until 2016 so their business plan mustn't look too bad to head office.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by NX74205

How is Mazda any different? There's the base Mazda 6 'Touring' hatch, sedan and wagon. There's a diesel hatch and wagon, and there's a top of the range 'Luxury Sports' hatch. Mazda 3 models consists of 'Neo', 'Maxx Sport', 'MZR-CD' (diesel), 'SP20', 'SP25' and 'MPS'.

SP20 is the older BJ series 323, its just SP23 for the previous generation and SP25 now plus the others you mentioned.

Its not neccessarily that there is something majorly wrong with the Falcon (for me there is a lot of niggly issues, but I'm not in the market for that kind of car anyways) but Ford itself has a fairly bad reputation, and its because a lot of people have been burnt in the past and still carry the same opinion to this day, because their EA Falcon was a heap of crap.

Two of my workmates, one has only bought Toyota and now BMW, he looks down on Ford, because apparently to him they're low quality, crappy cars with lots of issues, another drives a new Lexus RX350 and his wife wouldn't look at anything Ford because "Its just a dirty Ford".

Even P platers in their crappy junk first cars will form opinions on a brand based on that experience, my mate has a massive hunk of junk XG Falcon ute, and its been the most unreliable piece of crap which breaks down constantly and uses heaps of fuel. Because of that he now hates Ford and wont purchase another Ford product, even though its probably his fault he got sucked into buying a piece of crap.

I prefer Ford and Mazda over any other brands.

[IDT]

They aren't sold as models they are sold as variants of models, and without categorising people/sex's races backgrounds and such:
Hatch attracts the girls
Sedan attracts the young blokes on a budget
Wagon young family
Do the same with:
XT
G6
XR6

and don't forget we haven't even included FPV.

Like I said, they have always tried to sell falcodore to the entire market as it can do it all, but it can't because perception is everything "a falcodore is a falcodore is a falcodore". Thats the way the general puplic see it and sales prove it.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by WAForce8

They aren't sold as models they are sold as variants of models, and without categorising people/sex's races backgrounds and such:
Hatch attracts the girls
Sedan attracts the young blokes on a budget
Wagon young family
Do the same with:
XT
G6
XR6

and don't forget we haven't even included FPV.

Like I said, they have always tried to sell falcodore to the entire market as it can do it all, but it can't because perception is everything "a falcodore is a falcodore is a falcodore". Thats the way the general puplic see it and sales prove it.

What are you talking about?? Every model offered by every car maker has the same thing!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by WAForce8

They aren't sold as models they are sold as variants
Like I said, they have always tried to sell falcodore to the entire market as it can do it all, but it can't because perception is everything "a falcodore is a falcodore is a falcodore". Thats the way the general puplic see it and sales prove it.

Which is why something so abruptly different and deeply confronting to traditional Falcon buyers is needed,
something that really breaks the myth that big cars are thirsty lugs that no one wants other than fleet mangers..
Maybe that's why Ford chose the Ecoboost 2.0 I-4 over the much safer 2.7 V6 diesel option...

[LightingBA]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

SP20 is the older BJ series 323, its just SP23 for the previous generation and SP25 now plus the others you mentioned.

SP20 is the new skyactive model in the recent update. So in the current range there is both an SP20 and and SP25.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by LightingBA

SP20 is the new skyactive model in the recent update. So in the current range there is both an SP20 and and SP25.

Oops, I stand corrected.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

my mate has a massive hunk of junk XG Falcon ute, and its been the most unreliable piece of crap which breaks down constantly and uses heaps of fuel. Because of that he now hates Ford and wont purchase another Ford product, even though its probably his fault he got sucked into buying a piece of crap.

I'm not sure what he was expecting buying a 15+ year old commercial vehicle, it's hardly going to be the epitome of roadworthyness after all this time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm not sure what he was expecting buying a 15+ year old commercial vehicle, it's hardly going to be the epitome of roadworthyness after all this time.

I completely agree, but its always the manufacturer who cops it regardless.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I completely agree, but its always the manufacturer who cops it regardless.

True that, oh well.

As you were gentlemen.

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

sorry guys that was supposed to read " They can't comment enough on how nice a car it is to ride in "

So did that convince them to go out & buy one, or are they still blind & have to have the comdore or nothing??????????

The falcon FG is a drivers car , the comdore isn't as much, but why do we hear that the crapdore is?????????

Funny thing is that in this risky global financial crap that has been going on last year & this year , how will anybody afford a new car????????????

[turboxf]

My son wants an FGXR6 turbo, and I tell him that it’s a great car. I don’t want him to get a jap riceburner. ALL his friends want commodores though…..

Have you asked him why they say they wan't a crapydore, my sons friends wanted crapydores too when they wanted a seconhand car ( for 1st car ), my son got a ba XR6 .most of his friends laught at him , but when they went for a ride & drive of it they were hooked & all changed there minds

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by turboxf

My son wants an FGXR6 turbo, and I tell him that it’s a great car. I don’t want him to get a jap riceburner. ALL his friends want commodores though…..

Have you asked him why they say they wan't a crapydore, my sons friends wanted crapydores too when they wanted a seconhand car ( for 1st car ), my son got a ba XR6 .most of his friends laught at him , but when they went for a ride & drive of it they were hooked & all changed there minds

I still think it's "image"...for too many years, Falcon has had the image of a nice solid dependable family car, while you have to admit Holden has been very successfully able to draw on people like Brock and have had no hesitation about using thier motor racing history to link it to the Commodore.
Ford really needs to hammer advertising for the Falcon the same as Holden does with the Commodore...it's not a good marketing strategy with anything from toothpaste to motor vehicles to rely on "brand loyalty" and "tradition". You have to blast the public with non-stop advertising about the car, tell them why they should come and drive your car first when making a choice.

There's an upcoming four cylinder Falcon that will give people a large roomy car with four cylinder running costs and economy...yet where is the lead-up advertising? Whatever happened to the old Ford who used to advertise an XD in a block of slowly melting ice months before it was available saying "We've got your new car on ice", which piqued the public interest? Where's the "Don't make a decision to buy a new large car until you've seen this" type ad campaign? It's no use restricting it to on-line reviews on a few motoring website, internet forums, and specialist magazines...the majority of ma and pa buyers don't go searching the net for reviews of upcoming cars (they might look at something like RACQ or whatever motoring organisation they trust to see if they have looked at one), they watch TV or see a newspaper advert, get intrigued, walk into a dealership, and then ask about it.

Looking objectively at Ford advertising on TV, you wuld almost think they are embarassed that they still make this large car in a changing world where economy and peoples money is tight. Holden, unfortunately, has no such problem doing this...

[DJM83]

I think they should change the lion badge to a sheep