Holden closure

[Hawkeye84]

Im going to give credit where its due.
Compared to Holden, Ford did a great job with its PR in announcing the withdrawral of manufacturing in Australia. Ford were well prepared and have (it seems) a clear exit strategy as well as a well thought out product roadmap that does its best to service the segments in demand. To date, their plan moving forward has been well executed and communicated (albeit not revealing too much about future products, but giving us enough to speculate)

Holden - what an absolute cluster $@#¥ - their PR team must be working over time to rectify this. I would not want to be in their shoes.

With all this talk about Holden pulling out of Australia. Has it been confirmed whether or not the Commodore will still exist - produced somewhere else and still sold in Australia?

[au2000]

The last job I had, I did maintenance work in buildings the government were/are renting. Why is it, even under lib rule when you go through the car park of govt plated cars, there are just as many imports as there are local cars?

Vic gov under both labour & the lib's has a firm buy Australian made car policy combined with a "green" policy which is why the majority of their fleet cars, ie dept of human services, dept of justice etc drive hybrid camrys , Victoria police almost exclusively drive commodores as sedans & divvy vans. Only if they can't find an Australian made alternative do they look at imports , can't speak for other states though

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Pfft. Forget the Asian Camry disguised as the Aurion. The closest thing to an Australian car, let alone a performance car will be a Victa ride on lawnmower.

Victa isn't Australian owned or manufactured anymore. Like everything else we let it go.

We stand to be a third world nation with first world incomes until the holes we dig run dry. Then the reality of what we have left our grandchildren will hit - nothing.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Victa isn't Australian owned or manufactured anymore. Like everything else we let it go.

We stand to be a third world nation with first world incomes until the holes we dig run dry. Then the reality of what we have left our grandchildren will hit - nothing.

http://www.victa.com/au/support-centre/faqs/

Yes! Virtually all Victa mowers are assembled at Victa's factory in Moorebank NSW, from components sourced mostly from local businesses. The 2-stroke Victa engines are made in Australia, while the 4-stroke Briggs & Stratton and Honda engines are manufactured at their various international facilities. All internationally sourced components and finished goods are designed, manufactured and tested to ensure compliance with Victa's rigorous quality and safety standards.

[OLD BALDY]

I wonder how what % Oz made Holdens were parked in the workers car park yesterday!!?

[Struggo]

Horror unfolding as Holden production goes off-shore

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-1...es-off/5151020

[johnydep]

There's been talk of Holden closing for years. They almost shut up shop in the 80's. Today everyone is shocked but not many in the trade are surprised.

What is surprising is that the SA State government seems to have failed us, they have not laid the ground work for any new type of major service or manufacturing industry while they had the chance.

I heard on the ABC that the Playford government planned for a State that would attract manufacturing with cheap housing, electricity, taxes, etc. What's happened since?

We can't compete anymore. We've spent our money on some great projects, but what will they add to the growth of the State? Besides debt - nothing.

We need industry that will grow and add to our economy.

Mining is not the answer for SA. The defence industry was meant to be but that has slowed down.

All I want from our governments is to stop chasing the popularity vote and start making decisions that will benefit the state and country - not their own political career. I want politicians that are willing to make their own sacrifices, not other peoples.

All I've heard from Mr Jay Weatherill is "blah blah his fault, not mine". Just shut up and do your job - look after the State, not your political behind. Build a strong State and economy, by getting business to come, stay and grow.

[babyf6]

While this is pretty much a confirmation that auto manufacturing in Aus is dead (for now - perhaps a rebirth like the british auto industry is on the cards)
To all those who gave me **** about ford ceasing manufacturing - not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it...

[Blueford260]

It wasn't that many years ago a car that was not built here in Australia had to have so much Australian content (parts) to be sold here. Now we have 60 odd car brands on sale here with I don't know how many different models and only about half a dozen that are for the moment made here. Somewhere the government stopped thinking about Australian manufacturing and allowed cheap imports to flood the market.
It will not be to long until we make nothing here at all and all we will be is the worlds gravel pit

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by b0son

An XR6 sells now for what it did 10 years ago, and production volumes dwarfed those of the current model. Clearly, there was a LOT of fat in the price and I don't think it particularly fair for the consumer to be expected to subsidise that industry to such an extent.

There has been a lot that was cut out of the cars and production. While that may sound good these cars aren't as good as they use to be.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Blueford260

It will not be to long until we make nothing here at all and all we will be is the worlds gravel pit

Ford (unfortunatley) will let go of 1200 workers who screw cars together but retain 1500 in the design studio. Likewise Holden plan to have an engineering / design base here.

The smart end of the auto industry (and many other industries) is doing very well. Painful as it may be for some, our wage costs and knock on standard of living does not allow us to participate in low value add manufacturing.

Macro economic reform is never easy -- just smake sure you are on the right side of it when it happens.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by vztrt

There has been a lot that was cut out of the cars and production. While that may sound good these cars aren't as good as they use to be.

????? In the words of Pauline..."please explain?"

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Ford (unfortunatley) will let go of 1200 workers who screw cars together but retain 1500 in the design studio. Likewise Holden plan to have an engineering / design base here.

The smart end of the auto industry (and many other industries) is doing very well. Painful as it may be for some, our wage costs and knock on standard of living does not allow us to participate in low value add manufacturing.

Macro economic reform is never easy -- just smake sure you are on the right side of it when it happens.

What you say is somewhat true, the reality is though even those on the "right side" don't have much of a future when competing against these low cost nations.

Its only a matter of time before all the R&D etc goes to China in their constant underlying quest of cost reduction.
The message was clear, Holden wants to be as successful as its import only competitors, whom have no R&D etc .....
No job is safe as others are always ready to undercut , no matter how smart or experienced we may be.

[TheSneakiness]

There are distinct things that have caused this.

- Continued strength of the AUD
- Running costs through stupid decisions made by previous governments
- Pressure from Unions to increase wages (my absolute biggest bugbear)

Bloody hell if I can live on $767 a week then why can process line workers? Why should you get more than anyone else for doing menial work like putting a screw in a door? Why should you get more for doing something where robots are half doing your job in the first place? Alot of people make much, much less than car assemblers and can make do.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

????? In the words of Pauline..."please explain?"

The price of Falcons really hasn't changed in the last 10 years and in some cases they have gotten cheaper. There have been cost cuts every were to try and reduce the loss. So items going into the Falcon/Terri really don't have the quality that they should have.
One example is the carpet in the FG, its absolute rubbish compared to the BA.

Unfortunately things need to suffer as the Falcon/Terri is not a worldwide car and costs can't be spread like they can on something like a Corolla,Focus,Ranger.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by fte50

No job is safe as others are always ready to undercut , no matter how smart or experienced we may be.

correct. It's your ability to adapt and be efficient and productive that will enable you to remain competitive in what ever industry you employed in.

I was watching 7:30 report on ABC last night about the Holden closure, and there was one supposed expert on there that said that compared to other nations in the car industry, Australian workers in Holden should be more efficient to the tune of twice the speed and still meet QC and output targets.

Please don't bite my head off. It was what was said and I do not have all the facts, but it got me thinking, what if?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by fte50

What you say is somewhat true, the reality is though even those on the "right side" don't have much of a future when competing against these low cost nations.

Its only a matter of time before all the R&D etc goes to China in their constant underlying quest of cost reduction.
The message was clear, Holden wants to be as successful as its import only competitors, whom have no R&D etc .....
No job is safe as others are always ready to undercut , no matter how smart or experienced we may be.

Sorry, too pessimistic for me.

Economies across the globe have gone through highs and lows for thousands of years - some of the most famous are the Persians, the Greeks, Romans, the Ottoman empire, China, etc. More recently England during the 70's and 80's.

It's up to governments to plan, prepare, act and protect. Our governments have partially failed in the past 10 - 20 years, they got lazy on the mining boom. Pushed up taxes, over regulated, spent and forgot to plan and prepare.

We have four years to stop SA and the country falling into a heap, where on the edge but we can build and improve only if governments and politicians act now.

Everyone has to stop whining and finger pointing, politicians from both sides have to have a good look at themselves and get on with the job they were elected to do.

[Swedishmoose]

Hmmm...


Holden asked for 150 Million pa.

Ford also asked for a bit but all this is nothing compared to the money that is subsidizing other sectors of the economy.

3 BILLION Dollars p.a for the mining industry and they fly in workers on a 457 Visa.

4 BILLION Dollars p.a taxpayers money to subsidize the rediculous "negative gearing scheme" so we can afford overprized and dodgey Mac Mansions.

EVERY car making nation subsidizes their car industry only Australia is complaining.

High Aussie Dollar bla bla bla..the Euro is much much stronger and countries such as Germany, France and Sweden still produce cars in their countries.

Bureaucracy bla bla bla....Germany invented bureaucracy and red tape...they got so much red tape they could probably wrap the planet in in. They still make brilliant cars in their country.


In 2009 General motors was bancrupt and the USA (80%) Canada (20%) took over GM and basically nationalised it. Just a few days ago they re-privatised it.

Furthermore GM have announced to pull the korean Chevrolets from GM-Korea out of Europe (120000 were sold there) to avoid in house competition with Opel in Europe.

But GM-Korea was complaining about the possible loss of production capacity of 120000 cars.

Luckily the Australian government signed a free trade agreement with South Korea which made the Cruze production instantly obsolete in Elisabeth because they now can keep the capacity up in South Korea and export them for free to our shores.

Winners in all of that?

GM...saves money
Opel in Europe...one less competitor because Chevrolet Korea pulls out
GM-Korea...saves production capacity because it will produce the cars that Holden won't produce in the future thanks to the free trade agreement

Loosers?

Holden and Australia...like so often...because of pure ignorance.



Playing the blame game doesn't help either. we should have a good look at ourselves.

Australia is stuck in the primary industry, where we dig holes in the ground and plant some bananas and mangos, but we have high wages.
A Swiss economists said once that Australia is managing a third world economy with first world wages.

Either we lift our game and economy to a first class, high tech economy which would justify these redicoulously high incomes, or if we love our hole digging and banana planting so much, we should stay in the primary industry (third world) and bring down the high wages and prices...No more negative gearing and dodgey houses for a million bucks.


Just a thought.

Greetings

The Moose

[Grunter]

Was wondering about this. No more Falcon ute, no more Commodore ute. Does that mean there are no manufacturers that make a ute based of the sedan?

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by fte50

What you say is somewhat true, the reality is though even those on the "right side" don't have much of a future when competing against these low cost nations.

Its only a matter of time before all the R&D etc goes to China in their constant underlying quest of cost reduction.
The message was clear, Holden wants to be as successful as its import only competitors, whom have no R&D etc .....
No job is safe as others are always ready to undercut , no matter how smart or experienced we may be.

Those on the right side of the fence have a future whilever we are world class on education/engineering/legal etc and we work hard to evolve with the changes. We didn't stand a chance with low value manufacturing when asia (non japan) entered the fray with a low cost / highly motivated workforce.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Was wondering about this. No more Falcon ute, no more Commodore ute. Does that mean there are no manufacturers that make a ute based of the sedan?

Proton? lol

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Was wondering about this. No more Falcon ute, no more Commodore ute. Does that mean there are no manufacturers that make a ute based of the sedan?

Yeap, but a 4x2 Ranger is the same thing if you dont care about ride quality.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Ford (unfortunatley) will let go of 1200 workers who screw cars together but retain 1500 in the design studio. Likewise Holden plan to have an engineering / design base here.

The smart end of the auto industry (and many other industries) is doing very well. Painful as it may be for some, our wage costs and knock on standard of living does not allow us to participate in low value add manufacturing.

Macro economic reform is never easy -- just smake sure you are on the right side of it when it happens.

Very true
But the cost of education in Australia has skyrocketed and higher level education at universities is now beyond many.
Our education levels have also dropped us down below the top 10 countries. We are averaging 17th in the world in mathematics.

To remain on the smart end you need to have a smart culture and be aggresive with comitting funds to smart up start technologies. We have never been good at that here in Australia.

Many high end jobs are filled by fly ins from other countries.
Large scale change to education and govt policy takes ages and at the rate that other asian countries are growing and investing and "willing" to change is frightening in comparison to laid back OZ.

Losing Holden and Ford is not the main issue here. Its just a reflection of how difficult it is to operate high end industry and be profitable in Australia without govt handouts. Govt has made it clear they cant continue to do this whi h sends a clear message to other industries out there as well.

Cutting costs through wages works well if you dont have the rest of your economy so over inflated. It does not create a level playing field, it creates a substantial underclass and poverty level. Cost of basic utilities is high and deregulation hasnt really helped all that much so we have a lot of work to do with cost of living analysis before we vo cutting peoples wages so we can afford to build cars in australia. Free trade is hard when you dont have that much to barter with.

[BA GT-HO]

I have just read through a Holden EBA dated 2008 and I am left shaking my head. If people sat down and read that thing they would surely see that the conditions and wages were a large part of this decision.

http://www.fwc.gov.au/awards/tracee/...AG838750-2.pdf

You simply cannot pay people these amounts to screw cars together and expect to remain competitive. Pages 40 to 60ish.

Also what is the go with paying people an extra $0,72c per hour for 'dirty work' how is that defined?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I have just read through a Holden EBA dated 2008 and I am left shaking my head. If people sat down and read that thing they would surely see that the conditions and wages were a large part of this decision.

http://www.fwc.gov.au/awards/tracee/...AG838750-2.pdf

You simply cannot pay people these amounts to screw cars together and expect to remain competitive. Pages 40 to 60ish.

Also what is the go with paying people an extra $0,72c per hour for 'dirty work' how is that defined?

Im reading this 08 EBA and Im like with what these guys get paid. Not trying to dilute anyones trade or skill here, but daaaaaam.

I run/own a small company myself and I would love it if I was even on the Clerical group Leaders wage. I am also a skilled worker. But the reality is my company would not be a continual viable option for the future if I just dipped my hand into the profits bin, just because I could and am entitled to it. I sacrifice my wages for the longevity of the company but that is because I have a vested interest in keeping the company alive.

Wow, just wow

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Was wondering about this. No more Falcon ute, no more Commodore ute. Does that mean there are no manufacturers that make a ute based of the sedan?

Gees thats a great point what are all the tradies and couriers going to do now??????

[Sprint]

This is not a political statement but rather a personal one, Rudd would never of let this happen to our country but poor Tony has been boxing too much it seems, it proves his decision making skills are not worthy of PM.

Again this is a personal statement about Tony's character.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Sprint

This is not a political statement but rather a personal one, Rudd would never of let this happen to our country but poor Tony has been boxing too much it seems, it proves his decision making skills are not worthy of PM.

Again this is a personal statement about Tony's character.

THIS HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH POLITICS!

Show me another car in the world that sells in the numbers of the Falcon/Commodore thats not a hand-built super car.

We live at the bottom of the world so exporting is made that much harder even if they did build something else with those factories. Ask GMH how the financials on the Cruze is going for them.

Look at how much it costs to update these cars every cycle, VE was what $1B...a refresh is typically $300M+....they just dont sell enough for the business case to work.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Sprint

This is not a political statement but rather a personal one, Rudd would never of let this happen to our country but poor Tony has been boxing too much it seems, it proves his decision making skills are not worthy of PM.

Again this is a personal statement about Tony's character.

Yes and no......Labor put us into 300B of debt and Hockey just had to borrow another 200B to get us out of the mess...... Plus interest!

And then Holden wanted another 150M to keep going as well....... Were nearly in as much trouble as the U.S you know....Just on a much smaller scale!

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Swedishmoose

Hmmm...


Holden asked for 150 Million pa.

Ford also asked for a bit but all this is nothing compared to the money that is subsidizing other sectors of the economy.

3 BILLION Dollars p.a for the mining industry and they fly in workers on a 457 Visa.

4 BILLION Dollars p.a taxpayers money to subsidize the rediculous "negative gearing scheme" so we can afford overprized and dodgey Mac Mansions.

EVERY car making nation subsidizes their car industry only Australia is complaining.

High Aussie Dollar bla bla bla..the Euro is much much stronger and countries such as Germany, France and Sweden still produce cars in their countries.

Bureaucracy bla bla bla....Germany invented bureaucracy and red tape...they got so much red tape they could probably wrap the planet in in. They still make brilliant cars in their country.


In 2009 General motors was bancrupt and the USA (80%) Canada (20%) took over GM and basically nationalised it. Just a few days ago they re-privatised it.

Furthermore GM have announced to pull the korean Chevrolets from GM-Korea out of Europe (120000 were sold there) to avoid in house competition with Opel in Europe.

But GM-Korea was complaining about the possible loss of production capacity of 120000 cars.

Luckily the Australian government signed a free trade agreement with South Korea which made the Cruze production instantly obsolete in Elisabeth because they now can keep the capacity up in South Korea and export them for free to our shores.

Winners in all of that?

GM...saves money
Opel in Europe...one less competitor because Chevrolet Korea pulls out
GM-Korea...saves production capacity because it will produce the cars that Holden won't produce in the future thanks to the free trade agreement

Loosers?

Holden and Australia...like so often...because of pure ignorance.



Playing the blame game doesn't help either. we should have a good look at ourselves.

Australia is stuck in the primary industry, where we dig holes in the ground and plant some bananas and mangos, but we have high wages.
A Swiss economists said once that Australia is managing a third world economy with first world wages.

Either we lift our game and economy to a first class, high tech economy which would justify these redicoulously high incomes, or if we love our hole digging and banana planting so much, we should stay in the primary industry (third world) and bring down the high wages and prices...No more negative gearing and dodgey houses for a million bucks.


Just a thought.

Greetings

The Moose

GM was seeking roughly $3700 of taxpayer's money per car locally produced.

As I see it, the options:

1) give GM the money (roughly $150 million p.a and increasing forever)
or
2) have the worker take roughly a $2/hour pay cut
or
3) have the workers work an additional 1 hour per shift (without pay)
or
4) reduce the workforce
or
5) not give GMH the money

Given the current budget, Option 1 was not going to happen so that left Option 5.

But, did Options 2,3 or 4 ever get mentioned?

I'd love to hear from an actual GMH worker and get their take on what they were told by their union.

As for subsidising the mining industry - you do realise the mining sector produces billions and billions of real dollars in taxes/royalties to the governments, mining is a cash cow not like the GMH financial money pit drain.

As for negative gearing, removing the so called "tax" benefits, and landlords will charge their tenants much more in rent. Keating tried this years ago and it back fired big time, many tenants were left without a roof over their heads.

It might help you if you think of negative gearing as being privately owned subsidised public housing.

So what high tech industries do you envisage, Australia is so over burdened with laws, regulations and cots that it is impossible to start something.

Next, we have the ALP section who's mission is to impose unionism on everyone, the Greens who's mission is to stop all development and the Coalition can't change things because they're being stopped at every turn by the other two.

Starting up a company would probably be easier in Syria!