First Chinese Cars Entering Australia

[vztrt]

Great Wall’s great leap forward

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577BA00045A23

China’s Great Wall makes progress against the odds, to open the door for other makes

12 October 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

PIONEERING Chinese motor vehicle brand Great Wall Motors has more than doubled its share of the Australian market in the past 12 months, overtaking household names such as Land Rover, Jeep, Volvo and Peugeot in the sales race.

While volumes are still tiny compared with the big boys, Great Wall’s dealers have sold almost 5000 vehicles this year for a 0.6 per cent share of the market – and growing.

In August, Great Wall almost achieved 1.0 per cent share after launching its new entry-level V240 cab-chassis variant in July.

Currently armed with just two models – the V240 ute and X240 compact SUV – Great Wall has defied those cynics who predicted such Chinese brands, with unproven quality and no brand awareness, would struggle.

Those predictions appeared well-founded after Great Wall became the first Chinese car-maker to launch in Australia – by independent importer Ateco Automotive in July last year – and the company’s utes were awarded just two stars in the Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP) crash safety test.

A failed seat belt in the V240 test was not only embarrassing for the company, but forced a safety recall to rectify the problem.

The V240 was one of two utes the company fired onto the market when it opened for business in Australia. While the V240 made headway, the more basic SA220, with its 78kW 2.2-litre engine, struggled for 12 months before Ateco killed it off in the middle of this year.

Since then, the V240 ute range, which opened with a four-door dual-cab variant, has been expanded with the single-cab cab-chassis model, priced at $17,990 driveaway in 2x4 guise and $20,990 in 4x4, making it the cheapest ute on the market.

Ateco said the arrival of the cab-chassis has added incremental volume to the brand, gaining popularity with tradesmen and farmers. In August, V240 sales hit a new monthly high of 416 units, with both the 4x2 (251 units) and 4x4 (165 units) having their best months.

In September, sales slipped back a little to 375 units, but the V240 still helped Great Wall to a 2.7 per cent share of the light commercial market – well above its 1.8 per cent average this year.

But it was the arrival of the X240 SUV a year ago that might be considered the pivotal moment in Great Wall’s fortunes in this country.

With less polarizing styling than the utes and a much more satisfactory ANCAP safety rating of four stars, the rugged full-chassis dual-range 4WD X240 has effectively doubled the company’s volumes.

Armed with the same Mitsubishi-sourced 2.4-litre 100kW petrol engine as the ute, the X240 has carved out a 3.0 per cent share of the hot compact SUV segment, with volumes growing steadily.

Sold in just a single five-speed manual gearbox spec, the X240 is the cheapest SUV on the market at $23,990 driveaway, yet is loaded with leather, ABS, 17-inch alloys, twin airbags, four-wheel disc brakes and dual-range on-the-fly all-wheel drive.

Like its V240 stablemate, the X240 might do better if it had options such as an automatic transmission and diesel engine.

Ateco has confirmed that one of those issues will be addressed by the belated arrival of a turbo-diesel alternative in both models, though maybe not until next year.

In China, where the X240 is known as the Hover, two diesel engines are offered, in 2.5-litre and 2.8-litre TCI sizes with Bosch common-rail injection.

How soon an automatic transmission becomes available remains to be seen.

Also on the agenda is Great Wall’s first passenger car for Australia, the Voleex, a light car previously known as the Phenom and powered by a 1.5-litre petrol engine with a choice of manual and CVT automatic transmissions. It is expected to arrive in Australia about the end of 2011.

As well, Great Wall is moving into crossover vehicles in place of the 4Runner-derived ladder-chassis SUVs it has been serving up to date, opening the way for lighter, livelier vehicles. It seems only a matter of time before at least one of these arrives here.

While Great Wall’s arrival Down Under hasn’t always been pretty, it has broken the ice for Chinese manufacturers in this country.

With compatriots Geely, Chery, Higer and JAC all in various stages of launching onto the Australian market, the steady progress by Great Wall might become a Chinese avalanche.

[bobthebilda]

300 a month last year, 700 a month this year. If they keep doubling every year 2011= 1400 per month. 2012 = 2800, 2013= 5600, 2014= 11200. Throw in a couple of other chinese players just a few years behind and you can almost predict the end of Australian car manufacturing by 2016. Its quite odd that a chinese company is able to predict what the Australian consumers want, but the local manufacturers have trouble doing this.

[Bobman]

Have seen a heap through the damaged auctions.

Here's one recent example of a 2010 model:

Link

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Have seen a heap through the damaged auctions.

Here's one recent example of a 2010 model:

Link

I start the bidding at 45 cents and a can of beans...

[The Snout]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

300 a month last year, 700 a month this year. If they keep doubling every year 2011= 1400 per month. 2012 = 2800, 2013= 5600, 2014= 11200. Throw in a couple of other chinese players just a few years behind and you can almost predict the end of Australian car manufacturing by 2016. Its quite odd that a chinese company is able to predict what the Australian consumers want, but the local manufacturers have trouble doing this.

I doub't the growth of the Chinese brands will be as you have indicated. The Koreans are already fighting back with very cheap yet well equipped light cars and their recent introductions in the mid sized market are stunning IMO.

The Chinese didn't predict anything. We are a nation of full of misers who will drive 5km out of their way to 'save' 4c a litre on petrol.

What do you think Ford sales would be like if they sold near identical vehicles in each segment at a similar price??

Prob double would be my guess... The Chinese are the masters of making things cheaply. This is the ONLY reason why they have the sales they do. It was only a matter of time for this to happen.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

300 a month last year, 700 a month this year. If they keep doubling every year 2011= 1400 per month. 2012 = 2800, 2013= 5600, 2014= 11200. Throw in a couple of other chinese players just a few years behind and you can almost predict the end of Australian car manufacturing by 2016. Its quite odd that a chinese company is able to predict what the Australian consumers want, but the local manufacturers have trouble doing this.

What cheap white goods?? Who would thought.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by vztrt

What cheap white goods?? Who would thought.

You have an odd perception of cheapness VZ. I dont buy anything from indonesia, but Ford seem OK to buy Tyres from there. Cant recall the last time I bought anything from Thailand, but without thailand, the falcon wouldnt have an airconditioning unit, or any leather or cloth trim. Never bought anything from Czech republic, but apparantly they make non cheap airbags. In fact, products from these countries, one would steer away from if they saw it in the supermarket or the larger retailers.

Put them in a falcodore, and they suddenly become top quality??

[ltd]

Still living with the guilt of owning one?
How many local jobs do foreign cars support?

Ford may buy some parts from other nations where our previous industries here have been decimated by imports, but they keep building them though, as does Holden and to a lesser extent Toyota. The follow on effect from this is hundreds of thousands of Australians' lives enriched through our car companies, and no amount of self-ingratiation and grand-standing by an ignoramus with a proclivity for cheap will convince the bulk of this forum to support a cheap import.

If you love your great wall good for you. Just don't expect to come here with prophecies of doom for the locals based on supposition extrapalated from your own imagination. Tell the Salvo's.......... They care.

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by vztrt

What cheap white goods?? Who would thought.

Unfortunately he is right. Being in the building industry, I know plenty of people who now have Great Wall utes. All this after saying they were crap. Well they are cheap, and in a nation of tight asses, it seems the buying public is loving them. Wait till they add some small cars, some sedans and another SUV to their model line ups.

Hyundai proved you don't need quality to sell volume, but add some quality and your sales sky rocket. Give the Chinese some time to refine their cars and they will prove to be quite a force in the automotive segment.

[KYSBF]

I'm no expert but I reckon they will increase in sales once they have a diesel as an option.

[bobthebilda]

Still living with the guilt of owning one?

Why would I live with the guilt of owning a ford, was going to buy a Territory once, but read all the horror stories, and decided against it.

How many local jobs do foreign cars support?

Last I checked, with approx 72000 of the 85000 cars being sold in australia per month, coming from overseas, I'm assuming with sales, transport and after market care, quite alot. In fact with a Guess, I assume that if Ford didnt import half of their sales each month, they would find it hard to exist.

Ford may buy some parts from other nations where our previous industries here have been decimated by imports, but they keep building them though, as does Holden and to a lesser extent Toyota.

When bridgestone (last australian tyre manufacturer) closed up shop, Ford wasnt purchasing tyres from them. Ford chose to source a cheaper product from overseas, instead of buying australian (they killed the chicken before it could lay the egg). It is the car companies themselves that are destroying the jobs, which employ the people more likely to buy their australian made products.

The follow on effect from this is hundreds of thousands of Australians' lives enriched through our car companies

Not to mention the approx. 850,000 australians who lives are enriched by buying an overseas made car each year. And probably even more so, when one compares the quality ratings of overseas made cars to australian made cars.

The australian car manufacturing industry has been dying for years (450,000 a year a few years back, 225,000 last year, and just a little bit more this year), and yet australia still has a very low unemployment rate, and growing wages.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The australian car manufacturing industry has been dying for years (450,000 a year a few years back, 225,000 last year, and just a little bit more this year), and yet australia still has a very low unemployment rate, and growing wages.

The problem with moving away from Australian manufacturing doesn't hurt us badly when the dollar is high. When the dollar drops all of the imported goods will bounce in price. Clothes, tires, food and cars will all be effected.That is the point when people go 'oh **** I should have bought Australian instead of saving a couple of dollars. It's now costing me a fortune.'

[pottery beige]

have you been sacked by one of the aussie car manufacturers bob..??.. you seem to have more hangups than a drycleaners when it comes to the aussie car makers......

[ltd]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Why would I live with the guilt of owning a ford, was going to buy a Territory once, but read all the horror stories, and decided against it.

No, the guilt of owning a chinese car. I thought that was obvious but you must have missed the implication.

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Last I checked, with approx 72000 of the 85000 cars being sold in australia per month, coming from overseas, I'm assuming with sales, transport and after market care, quite alot. In fact with a Guess, I assume that if Ford didnt import half of their sales each month, they would find it hard to exist.

And you got these figures from where exactly? Besides, do you honestly believe that these magical numbers will equal or better the number of people in the local industry? Simply put and using your numbers, support staff on 85,000 cars is less than support staff on 85,000 cars plus the factory staff who manufacture the remaining 13,000 cars plus the staff who make components.

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

When bridgestone (last australian tyre manufacturer) closed up shop, Ford wasnt purchasing tyres from them. Ford chose to source a cheaper product from overseas, instead of buying australian (they killed the chicken before it could lay the egg). It is the car companies themselves that are destroying the jobs, which employ the people more likely to buy their australian made products.

Pacific Dunlop left of their own volition, ford still buys from Dunlop. Don't spread lies about Ford who supported PacDun till the end.
As for the reason they left, how about you actually look at the costs of manufacturing tyres as well as the relative cost of rubber in a low volume rubber producing country. That and the cost of crude oil too.
For further reference, look at the import pressures pacific dunlop faced as a result of reducing tarriffs in the 70's and 80's; the same tarriffs which threaten our auto industry.

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Not to mention the approx. 850,000 australians who lives are enriched by buying an overseas made car each year. And probably even more so, when one compares the quality ratings of overseas made cars to australian made cars.

Where the hell did you pull that number from? Of the 900,000 cars sold each year you're going to tell me that they pay wages for 850,000 employees each? Average cost of a car is around 30K, average wage in the auto industry is around 45K. Your numbers are a giant phallus.
Tell me, if Australian cars are so woeful in quality how does ford have two brands in the top ten of the last JD Power quality survey? Must be all that bad quality that got them there huh?

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The australian car manufacturing industry has been dying for years (450,000 a year a few years back, 225,000 last year, and just a little bit more this year), and yet australia still has a very low unemployment rate, and growing wages.

Thanks to apathetic imbeciles like yourself who refuse to see beyond your own wallet. In years to come when the dollar crashes or we have no more manufacturing industry, other brands will simply charge as much as they like for cars here. I'm betting people of your ilk will be the first to complain about the cost. Frankly, it's particularly heinous for you to espouse the death of the Australian car industry, especially given your own obvious bias.

As for the unemployment rate, that has more to do with mining than anything else. Further, wages have grown at less than the CPI for the last two years, whereas costs have increased over double CPI thanks to charges like utilities, taxes and other imposts. If you can't see this then you're living in a fools paradise.
I realise you'll never understand any of this as you're trying to justify why you bought a cheap chinese car, but for the love of all things holy proclaim your prophecies of doom for ford at [HTML]http://www.i'm_a_sellout_troll.com[/HTML]

[bobthebilda]

No, the guilt of owning a chinese car. I thought that was obvious but you must have missed the implication.

Yeah i knew that, was just winding you up.

And you got these figures from where exactly

well i add 4100 commodores, with 2300 falcons, 3000 aurions and camrys, 1800 utes, and 700 territories (and add a bit just to accommodate whingers), and I come up with 13000. Then I pull out my chinese made calculator, and minus 13000 from 85000.

Where the hell did you pull that number from? Of the 900,000 cars sold each year you're going to tell me that they pay wages for 850,000 employees each

You need to read it before you go into one of you ill informed tyranical rages. I said 850,000 australians who lives are enriched by buying an overseas made car each year. Meaning car buyers. I didnt say employees.

In years to come when the dollar crashes or we have no more manufacturing industry, other brands will simply charge as much as they like for cars here. I'm betting people of your ilk will be the first to complain about the cost. Frankly, it's particularly heinous for you to espouse the death of the Australian car industry, especially given your own obvious bias.

Wouldnt it make sense that if the Australian dollar fell, the local industry would benefit, and if the local industry was dead by then, then true competition (not hiding behind walls of tarriffs) would ensure market prices for cars. Its a little exaggerated to say i espouse the death of the australian car industry, when I aint one of the 86 % percent of australians who are buying foreign made cars each year.

All I am doing is expressing my opinion and winding in my reel every so often.

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

......
When bridgestone (last australian tyre manufacturer) closed up shop, Ford wasnt purchasing tyres from them. Ford chose to source a cheaper product from overseas, instead of buying australian (they killed the chicken before it could lay the egg). It is the car companies themselves that are destroying the jobs, which employ the people more likely to buy their australian made products......

Ford is/was? the last local manufacturer supporting the gearbox plant in North Albury, makers of the 4 speed auto used in Falcon since EB. Lately it had only been used in eGas Falcons and RWD Tezza.

But FordOZ more or less saved BTR/ION/DSI (whatever their name is this week) from bankruptcy. But the old Borg Warner 4 speed slusher is too old. AFAIK the only customer now is Ssangyong who were in/going into bankruptcy..

[Kamshaaft]

Yeah Wattot you're right Ssangyong bought out Drivetrain International when it went in recievership yet again, but I believe it was sold off to Geely (Chinese motor car company) a couple of months ago?

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by irish2

The problem with moving away from Australian manufacturing doesn't hurt us badly when the dollar is high. When the dollar drops all of the imported goods will bounce in price. Clothes, tires, food and cars will all be effected.That is the point when people go 'oh **** I should have bought Australian instead of saving a couple of dollars. It's now costing me a fortune.'

Agree, the problem is when a country can't produce goods or food, it basically has nothing in time of need.

Free trade is the murderer of manufacturing and the primrose path to the loss of national sovereignty and the end of our independence.........

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/aug/11/00007/

BTW, Australia currently has one of the lowest tariffs of any automotive producing country so the playing field is already not level.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by irish2

The problem with moving away from Australian manufacturing doesn't hurt us badly when the dollar is high. When the dollar drops all of the imported goods will bounce in price. Clothes, tires, food and cars will all be effected.That is the point when people go 'oh **** I should have bought Australian instead of saving a couple of dollars. It's now costing me a fortune.'

That's exactly true.
Problem is, there's far too many who fail to support the locals, then complain when prices are increased. When they run out of options, they'll blame the very car makers they refused to support who have since gone bust.
It's like the Holden V Ford thing. Fact is, Ford need Holden and Holden need Ford.

What really gets my ire though is people who would blindly support a foreign manufacturer who does no R&D, reverse engineers everything, has no work safety acumen; ostensibly avoids the cost of others and then floods our markets with cheap crap. It is short sighted, it is self absorption and it is the epitome of the hypocrite. These very same people wouldn't accept working conditions like China's themselves, but are happy to propagate these practices through their own purchasing decisions.

If history is any judge then people would stay a mile away from Chinese cars, as all of their previous efforts in electronics, appliances and others have been of dubious quality to say the least. What’s more, whilst it's all too easy for the ignorant to be blasé about our own manufacturers, these same people haven't acknowledged that outsourcing to the third world is the death knell to our own economy; jobs, exports etc. Further, we witness daily what gets outsourced and yet these incredibly ignorant people haven't managed to join the dots between outsourcing and the very future of their own employment. It smacks of stupidity and one can only hope that those who do lose their jobs, are the very same who advocate sending our industries off shore.

I don't despise foreign cars, I despise the fact that we make employment in this country expensive but commensurate with the developed world, then drop our pants and bend over a barrel for the developing world to positively ream our local industry whilst removing any protection our industries had. This continues unabated and successive governments and ministers who have fostered this so called "free trade" farce deserve to be made redundant themselves.

[Struggo]

Excellant post Itd

[bobthebilda]

That's exactly true.
What really gets my ire though is people who would blindly support a foreign manufacturer who does no R&D, reverse engineers everything, has no work safety acumen; ostensibly avoids the cost of others and then floods our markets with cheap crap.

Well thats not fair, they have to import the festivas and Barinas (not to mention post 2014 Falcon) from somewhere.

If history is any judge then people would stay a mile away from Chinese cars, as all of their previous efforts in electronics, appliances and others have been of dubious quality to say the least

.

Yep, people got it right when they said that about the japanese 30 years ago, and the South Koreans 20 years ago.

these same people haven't acknowledged that outsourcing to the third world is the death knell to our own economy; jobs, exports etc.

Its shocking, the car industry is dying, and yet the australian dollar is nearing parity with the US dollar (gloom is in the air)

Further, we witness daily what gets outsourced and yet these incredibly ignorant people haven't managed to join the dots between outsourcing and the very future of their own employment. It smacks of stupidity and one can only hope that those who do lose their jobs, are the very same who advocate sending our industries off shore.

The problem tends to occur with the less educated. One of the possible causes is the redirection of government money from education (which returns a high, expenditure to benefit ratio), to floundering uncompetitive industries (I'll leave that up to your imagination, wild at that)

I don't despise foreign cars, I despise the fact that we make employment in this country expensive

We make it expensive because we would rather spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (borrowed from overseas) on unproductive assets like housing, or hundreds of millions on ****y little car plants, instead of investing in education and productivity, and industries that we are competetive in.

then drop our pants and bend over a barrel for the developing world to positively ream our local industry whilst removing any protection our industries had

And right now, with our ****y little (on a world scale) protected manufacturing industries, we are the envy of the world.

This continues unabated and successive governments and ministers who have fostered this so called "free trade" farce deserve to be made redundant themselves.[/

QUOTE]

And yet, every time we vote, we just vote out one twit and vote another in. Communism looks good, maybe then we could woo great wall motors to our shores. Tank roo rery ruch signed. RobtheRilda

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Struggo

Agree, the problem is when a country can't produce goods or food, it basically has nothing in time of need.

Free trade is the murderer of manufacturing and the primrose path to the loss of national sovereignty and the end of our independence.........

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/aug/11/00007/

BTW, Australia currently has one of the lowest tariffs of any automotive producing country so the playing field is already not level.

Well the Government/MDBA is doing its best to wipe out irrigated agriculture at the moment so never mind about times of need, we won't be able to produce anywhere near as much food as we do now in the near future.

Check out the news tonight and there might (if the media can get their brain out of a hole in Chile) be something on a meeting held at Griffith today where approx 5000 showed up. I think this is a bigger issue than some chinese cars coming into the country. How about all your food/fibre coming from there as well?

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Well thats not fair, they have to import the festivas and Barinas (not to mention post 2014 Falcon) from somewhere.

.

Yep, people got it right when they said that about the japanese 30 years ago, and the South Koreans 20 years ago.


Its shocking, the car industry is dying, and yet the australian dollar is nearing parity with the US dollar (gloom is in the air)



The problem tends to occur with the less educated. One of the possible causes is the redirection of government money from education (which returns a high, expenditure to benefit ratio), to floundering uncompetitive industries (I'll leave that up to your imagination, wild at that)



We make it expensive because we would rather spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (borrowed from overseas) on unproductive assets like housing, or hundreds of millions on ****y little car plants, instead of investing in education and productivity, and industries that we are competetive in.


And right now, with our ****y little (on a world scale) protected manufacturing industries, we are the envy of the world.

QUOTE]

And yet, every time we vote, we just vote out one twit and vote another in. Communism looks good, maybe then we could woo great wall motors to our shores. Tank roo rery ruch signed. RobtheRilda

You need to get out more

http://www.australiafirstparty.com.a...d=20&Itemid=29

TRADE
Trade is important to all national economies, but to kill off your home-grown manufacturing and agricultural industries in the pursuit of foreign trade is criminally irresponsible!

Jobs across Australia are being lost, because the government lets in cheap Third World imports (from Asia, Africa, and South America), made in places where they earn $1 per hour or less.

Industries across Australia are being lost, because businesses are contracting out to Third World manufacturing companies - to take advantage of cheap labour and special Third World deals. These cheap products are then imported into Australia. We lose Australian jobs because products aren't being made here; and Australian companies are sent broke because they can't compete with cheap labour countries - leading to even more job losses. And the Liberal-Labor politicians have deliberately enabled all this by destroying Australia's traditional industrial protection - by dismantling the tariff barriers which protected Australian jobs for so long.

Farmers across Australia have been forced to bulldoze their trees into the ground because the government lets in cheap fruit and juice imports from the Third World.

Australia's national pool of wealth is being drained, because the government is letting foreign companies buy up existing successful Australian businesses, and then decades of Australian-grown profits are channeled overseas.

LOSING AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE TO OVERSEAS
True foreign investment is when an overseas company actually invests in Australia by creating a business which we lack here, such as setting up a company to make helicopters. Buying an existing business creates no real wealth for Australia. Usually, the money is paid out to shareholders who would normally either spend it or reinvest it in another existing business - no new business enterprise is created, yet the nation has just lost a steady turnover of profits - wealth that has been created in Australia is lost to foreign countries, and that draining of wealth continues every year as profits leave the country.

The widespread loss of wealth, machinery, and expertise to foreign countries means that Australia is becoming a poorer, less resourceful, and clueless country; and - as time goes on - we will find it harder and harder to re-establish lost industries from scratch.

Past Prime Minister Bob Hawke, in his rhetoric designed to rid us of industrial protection, used to speak of Australia as needing to become the “clever country”. What a con that was. As if all industrialised countries weren't intent on becoming “clever” too.

The “clever country” theory - supported by both Liberal and Labor - was basically that Asia would provide us with cheap goods, whilst we would provide them with services in technology, etc. Did they think Asians are dumb? That even though most Asian countries have Westernised industry and technology, that somehow we were so much cleverer in all things, that they would always come to us for our expertise?

Liberal-Labor have long sought to globalise Australia, to make us a part of a corporatised future where money and people continuously ebb and flow across the globe; a future where borders and nations no longer exist; a future that would, long-term, lead to the death of national and ethnic diversity - a financial and demographic borderless one-world state. The “right” want it so that the world can become the playground of big business, and the “left” want it so that they can merge and destroy distinct races and nationalities.

Only nationalists can provide a true alternative to the Brave New World of Liberal-Labor. Only Australian nationalists have the interests of the Australian People at heart.

We must oppose globalisation to ensure the future of the Australian Nation. The answer to globalisation and the destruction of our nation's wealth is to strengthen Australia's economic sovereignty. This can be achieved by instituting financial policies that will benefit Australia:

Create tariff barriers to minimise cheap Third World imports, and to thus save Australian jobs and industries.
Halt the sale of Australian companies to foreign interests.
Re-establish lost industries, by supporting the return of expertise and technological knowledge.
Invest in long-term technical and practical know-how by investing in technical schools and trade schools, as well as giving financial incentives to research and development.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You have an odd perception of cheapness VZ. I dont buy anything from indonesia, but Ford seem OK to buy Tyres from there. Cant recall the last time I bought anything from Thailand, but without thailand, the falcon wouldnt have an airconditioning unit, or any leather or cloth trim. Never bought anything from Czech republic, but apparantly they make non cheap airbags. In fact, products from these countries, one would steer away from if they saw it in the supermarket or the larger retailers.

Put them in a falcodore, and they suddenly become top quality??

Cheap as in price, you know like 50" plasmas for 1k. My issue with the Chinese is that they buy (or steal) designs from other manufactures and can get their price down (or the government subsidies their manufacturing to keep their cost low). If they can design from scratch and bring a product to market and undercut their competitors then I would congratulate them. But all I keep seeing is what is happening and that is dangerous.

Ford, even Holden at least does good work. We see that Ford seems to getting more R&D work so they are quote good. I would say (I guess from experience as well) that Fords OZ issue is budgets. If they can get better budgets for a car that can spread their R&D & parts budget I would see a much better car.

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

But FordOZ more or less saved BTR/ION/DSI (whatever their name is this week) from bankruptcy. But the old Borg Warner 4 speed slusher is too old. AFAIK the only customer now is Ssangyong who were in/going into bankruptcy..

Actually they are now owned by geely and the 4 speed will be seen in their models quite soon. Ford no longer will use the 4-speed.

[G6E Turbo 2]

Originally Posted by Struggo

Agree, the problem is when a country can't produce goods or food, it basically has nothing in time of need.

Free trade is the murderer of manufacturing and the primrose path to the loss of national sovereignty and the end of our independence.........

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/aug/11/00007/

BTW, Australia currently has one of the lowest tariffs of any automotive producing country so the playing field is already not level.

100% Right
What we do when there is no more coal
We dont make anything much anymore
We import Pork thanks to the Howard Govt
We might import Beef thanks to Julia

Why do we need another brand and make of car
in this Country !!!!
Oh yes , to help destroy the local market

[JG34JA]

This is an emotive subject.

To those who are suggesting "globalism" or the "free market" are to blame, consider this: the economic trade system used in the world in the last 30 years has been far from a free market. Other nations have deliberately devalued their currencies, effectively a massive tariff supporting their manufacturers. Just watch Japan squirm, create a Y5Trillion fighting fund, all to devalue the yen, making their goods cheaper. They are losing this unfair advantage, and despite their best attempts the market will slap the Bank of Japan, for the US is beginning to play the same game. (When you hear "Quantitative Easing" think "printing up billions of currency from nowhere and burying it in any commodity or asset" - including your opponent's currency! Threat of QE2 is the reason precious metals are rallying, and equities markets and commodities are supported higher. Real QE means everything goes up - eventually cost of living, too. It's a mug's game. Historically, it mirrors the tariff walls of the 1930's following the 1929 crash, and we all know where that led...)

The Yuan is undervalued - a sore point in Washington at present - thus presenting Chinese manufacturers with a doubly unfair advantage: low wages and low currency. Additionally, if you note Australian attempts at boldly enforcing "free trade" agreements, you will note we are allowing their produce in (apples) while they are banning ours (table grapes) entering their country:

http://www.nationals.org.au/News/Loc...t-Screwed.aspx

Can we import a Falcon to China? One would do well to note that most auto manufacturers around the world are heavily government supported - no real free market there.

So, get it in your head, we do not live in a global free market economy, and never have done.

The effects are devastating, and easy to see. Imports flood the domestic market and push the price below that which domestic businesses are profitable. We are surprised when they fail. Prices rise once the domestic producer/manufacturer goes under.

To Australia's eternal credit, we have played the "free market" game while everyone else was playing to win. We have lowered tariffs to negligible levels, pursued free trade agreements, and allowed our currency to float - and it has appreciated to the disadvantage of our manufacturers and producers, but to the advantage of our consumption. We could/can afford it - income from our massive minerals wealth. Australians can hold their heads up high and say we played in the spirit of the game.

But they would do well to think about what we have lost - our premier South Australian Auto manufacturer (they built everything there), component suppliers, our textile industry, farms, the Riverina and countless complexity across our Manufacturing and Agricultural sectors. Real income generating activities. We are currently going after our coal industry (global warming/climate change/greenhouse effect), aluminium smelters (same), and our ore miners (RSPT). The industries that have replaced our productive industries (mining, of course remains) are FIRE: Real Estate speculation and Finance. Arguably, these do not create wealth in a society, for they produce nothing tangible. Want to learn about FIRE?

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

The loss of Australia's production has been complimented by extraordinarily bad policy - for example Managed Forestry Investment Schemes have seen family dairy farms replaced by tree farms, able to offer up to twice the market value for the land (anecdotal - Tasmania) based on artificial bloating via our tax dollars; the buying back of water allocations in the Murray does nothing to address the fact that all they are doing is making the water flow faster to the sea leaving the floodplains parched! (Australian rivers flow on top of their respective floodplains, or at least they used to, "topping up" the floodplain in times of flood, which is what the growers do with irrigation... - see Peter Andrews' work). The real estate market was artificially interfered with when the GFC hit, and we remain with house prices around 8-9 times average earnings when the historical average over the last 100 years in Western nations is 1.5 to 3... Some of our trade agreements only work in one direction!

So if your thinking our high wage rate is the cluprit, you're only part right.

Getting back to the local car industry, I for one will continue to support it. Why? Because its products are most relevant to what is needed in this continent. This is a gem of a quote from the UK based Falcon site aus-ford-uk:

"When you occupy such a vast and sparsely occupied country with many miles of rough and tough roads, the virtues of simplicity of operation and maintenance, the benefits of crude but dependable and over-engineered components, and the luxury of large but understressed engines count for much more than the supposed sophistication of European products. Many options were offered to satisfy the needs of owners stretching across the continent, from protection packs that included sump guards and extra dust seals, to long range tanks offering capacities of up to 36 gallons of fuel, albeit with detrimental affect on boot space."

Thanks for reading this through. I don't know if a tariff war is the answer, for I know what fruit it eventually bears. Equally I know that continuing on the path of the last 35 years (following the 1975 Lima agreement) is leading to a destitute future for our children. Just look at the US now, 22% unemployment (Shadowstats) and no revival in sight. We have been warned! Perhaps at the end of the day, keeping our market open and then slipping protection money to Ford, Holden and Toyota through the back door is the best thing we can do...

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by G6E Turbo 2

100% Right
What we do when there is no more coal
We dont make anything much anymore
We import Pork thanks to the Howard Govt
We might import Beef thanks to Julia

Why do we need another brand and make of car
in this Country !!!!
Oh yes , to help destroy the local market

Could not agree more

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Perhaps at the end of the day, keeping our market open and then slipping protection money to Ford, Holden and Toyota through the back door is the best thing we can do...

Top post JG34JA.

Re the back door (slipping protection money), why not?

The EU and US have been doing it for decades with their farmers, whilst we try to destoy ours

[ltd]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

This is an emotive subject.

To those who are suggesting "globalism" or the "free market" are to blame, consider this: the economic trade system used in the world in the last 30 years has been far from a free market. Other nations have deliberately devalued their currencies, effectively a massive tariff supporting their manufacturers. Just watch Japan squirm, create a Y5Trillion fighting fund, all to devalue the yen, making their goods cheaper. They are losing this unfair advantage, and despite their best attempts the market will slap the Bank of Japan, for the US is beginning to play the same game. (When you hear "Quantitative Easing" think "printing up billions of currency from nowhere and burying it in any commodity or asset" - including your opponent's currency! Threat of QE2 is the reason precious metals are rallying, and equities markets and commodities are supported higher. Real QE means everything goes up - eventually cost of living, too. It's a mug's game. Historically, it mirrors the tariff walls of the 1930's following the 1929 crash, and we all know where that led...)

The Yuan is undervalued - a sore point in Washington at present - thus presenting Chinese manufacturers with a doubly unfair advantage: low wages and low currency. Additionally, if you note Australian attempts at boldly enforcing "free trade" agreements, you will note we are allowing their produce in (apples) while they are banning ours (table grapes) entering their country:

http://www.nationals.org.au/News/Loc...t-Screwed.aspx

Can we import a Falcon to China? One would do well to note that most auto manufacturers around the world are heavily government supported - no real free market there.

So, get it in your head, we do not live in a global free market economy, and never have done.

The effects are devastating, and easy to see. Imports flood the domestic market and push the price below that which domestic businesses are profitable. We are surprised when they fail. Prices rise once the domestic producer/manufacturer goes under.

To Australia's eternal credit, we have played the "free market" game while everyone else was playing to win. We have lowered tariffs to negligible levels, pursued free trade agreements, and allowed our currency to float - and it has appreciated to the disadvantage of our manufacturers and producers, but to the advantage of our consumption. We could/can afford it - income from our massive minerals wealth. Australians can hold their heads up high and say we played in the spirit of the game.

But they would do well to think about what we have lost - our premier South Australian Auto manufacturer (they built everything there), component suppliers, our textile industry, farms, the Riverina and countless complexity across our Manufacturing and Agricultural sectors. Real income generating activities. We are currently going after our coal industry (global warming/climate change/greenhouse effect), aluminium smelters (same), and our ore miners (RSPT). The industries that have replaced our productive industries (mining, of course remains) are FIRE: Real Estate speculation and Finance. Arguably, these do not create wealth in a society, for they produce nothing tangible. Want to learn about FIRE?

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/0081908

The loss of Australia's production has been complimented by extraordinarily bad policy - for example Managed Forestry Investment Schemes have seen family dairy farms replaced by tree farms, able to offer up to twice the market value for the land (anecdotal - Tasmania) based on artificial bloating via our tax dollars; the buying back of water allocations in the Murray does nothing to address the fact that all they are doing is making the water flow faster to the sea leaving the floodplains parched! (Australian rivers flow on top of their respective floodplains, or at least they used to, "topping up" the floodplain in times of flood, which is what the growers do with irrigation... - see Peter Andrews' work). The real estate market was artificially interfered with when the GFC hit, and we remain with house prices around 8-9 times average earnings when the historical average over the last 100 years in Western nations is 1.5 to 3... Some of our trade agreements only work in one direction!

So if your thinking our high wage rate is the cluprit, you're only part right.

Getting back to the local car industry, I for one will continue to support it. Why? Because its products are most relevant to what is needed in this continent. This is a gem of a quote from the UK based Falcon site aus-ford-uk:

"When you occupy such a vast and sparsely occupied country with many miles of rough and tough roads, the virtues of simplicity of operation and maintenance, the benefits of crude but dependable and over-engineered components, and the luxury of large but understressed engines count for much more than the supposed sophistication of European products. Many options were offered to satisfy the needs of owners stretching across the continent, from protection packs that included sump guards and extra dust seals, to long range tanks offering capacities of up to 36 gallons of fuel, albeit with detrimental affect on boot space."

Thanks for reading this through. I don't know if a tariff war is the answer, for I know what fruit it eventually bears. Equally I know that continuing on the path of the last 35 years (following the 1975 Lima agreement) is leading to a destitute future for our children. Just look at the US now, 22% unemployment (Shadowstats) and no revival in sight. We have been warned! Perhaps at the end of the day, keeping our market open and then slipping protection money to Ford, Holden and Toyota through the back door is the best thing we can do...

Fantastic post, brilliant work. Concise, succinct and informative.
Welcome to the forums.

[vztrt]

Green light for Geely

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577C800176A38

Chinese car-makers set to apply the heat as Geely gets ADR certification for MK

26 October 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

CHINESE car-maker Geely will bring its brand of budget-conscious motoring to Australia with its Yaris-sized MK light sedan in a matter of weeks, setting the scene for a photo finish between Geely and rival Chery for bragging rights as the first Chinese company to launch a passenger car on the local market.

Recent regulatory approval for cars from both Geely and Chery signals the start in earnest of the predicted Chinese invasion, with Australia set to go from just two niche Chinese automotive importers – Great Wall Motors with its ute and SUV range and bus specialist Higer – to as many as seven Chinese motor vehicle brands offering a full range of cars, utes, mini-vans, SUVs, trucks and even electric vehicles in two years.

Others in the pipeline include Sydney-based White Motor Corporation’s JAC truck brand and at least two more from other independent importers.

Federal transport officials have given the tick of approval to Geely’s four-door, five-seat MK – known as Kingkong in some markets such as Russia – in two levels of specification, GL and GT, that will go on sale initially only in Western Australia in January before being rolled out to eastern states later in 2011.

Both variants are powered by a 69kW/128Nm 1.5-litre four-cylinder engine mated only with a five-speed manual transmission – for now. An automatic transmission is said to be in the pipeline for later in 2011.

The conservatively styled MK will be equipped with 15-inch wheels with 185/60 tyres, air-conditioning, twin front airbags and remote central locking. The GT adds leather trim, a sunroof and tinted glass, while foglights will be optional.

No target pricing has been given, but it will be sharp by necessity to take the fight up to the well-established (although soon-to-be-retired) Hyundai Getz, among others.

At 1692mm wide, the MK is lineball with the Toyota Yaris (1690mm), and marginally longer than the Yaris sedan, at 4342mm versus 4300mm. Kerb weight is nearly identical at 1090kg.

Like the Yaris, it employs a central instrument binnacle, but angled towards the driver.

Chery importer Ateco Automotive is targeting January 19 for the Australian launch of its slightly smaller J1 1.3-litre five-door hatch and larger J11 2.0-litre five-door compact SUV.

Unlike the staggered Geely rollout, Chery is set to be launched nationally through 60 dealers.

The exact on-sale date for the Geely MK is yet to be confirmed by Perth-based importer Chinese Automotive Distributors, but GoAuto understands that the company is targeting an early 2011 debut now that Australian Design Rule homologation has finally been sealed.

The projected launch date has been delayed several times over the past year as the import company headed by WA multi-franchise car dealer and businessman John Hughes wrestled with technical and bureaucratic issues associated with preparing a Chinese car for the Australian market – an increasingly familiar theme for such importers.

Mr Hughes, who is currently in China on business and could not be contacted for this article, told GoAuto recently that he hoped the first shipment of MK sedans would arrive about December in readiness for an early 2011 on-sale date.

ADR certification for the Geely MK coincided with news from South America of the failure of another Geely model, the CK, in the independent Latin NCAP crash safety tests.

The compact CK – with a domestic Chinese name that translates to Freedom Cruiser – crumpled embarrassingly in the offset barrier test, scoring zero stars out of five for its performance.

The 1.5-litre CK is based on an old hand-me-down, stripped-out Daewoo Lanos that was flogged to the fledgling Chinese company after Daewoo dumped it in favour of the Kalos in 2002.

Chinese C-NCAP video crash tests of the Chinese-designed MK show a considerably more robust performance than the CK, with little deformation around the A-pillars and front doors. The company designed the MK for western export markets, and expects it to qualify for up to four stars in equivalent safety tests around the world.

The marketing push for the Geely brand starts in WA this weekend with ‘John Hughes Geely’ naming rights sponsorship for the WA Golf Open at the WA Golf Club.

The Geely MK will be followed later in 2011 by an even smaller car, the LC Panda hatch, to target entry-level vehicles such as the Suzuki Alto.

The Panda is said to have collected a five-star safety rating in the C-NCAP tests, although those tests are not exactly comparable with similar NCAP ratings in Australia and Europe.

A larger Corolla-sized 102kW 1.8-litre five-door hatchback and sedan range called the EC7 is also in the queue for Australia, while a compact SUV spawned from the EC7 base, the EX7, is also on the cards, with a choice of 106kW 2.0-litre petrol and 100kW 2.0-litre diesel engines.

The RAV4-sized EX7 broke cover as the GX718 concept at the Shanghai motor show last year under Geely’s Gleagle sub-brand. It is now being sold in China under yet another sub-brand, Emgrand.

The Geely EC7 and EX7 are both expected to come equipped with an optional six-speed automatic transmission designed by Australia’s Drivetrain Systems International, which Geely bought last year.

Geely’s Hong Kong-based parent company, Zhejiang Geely Automobile, also acquired Sweden’s Volvo Cars AB from Ford Motor Company earlier this year, establishing itself as a major player on the global motoring stage.

Exporting to more than 30 markets around the world, Geely is one of China's biggest automotive exporters, along with Chery and Great Wall.

Australian importer John Hughes was instrumental in the introduction of Hyundai to Australia in the 1980s, and was the world’s biggest Hyundai dealer for several years.