Australia - China - Poltics

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Saw a doco on ABC the other day on Australian wool manufacturing. We send our wool over to China for them to wash and clean, then it is sent back here, we make the stuff, then sell it and often back to China.

There were talks about bringing the washing process back to Australia. It will cost $20m per factory, money that your average wool farmer does not have. Then add the labour costs.

Think of he PR bonanza if Govco flipped the bills if the business case stood up.

In recent times $20m to bring long term jobs back doesnt seem like to much.

We really need to look at the sustainability of that example, and its EVERYWHERE, the double handling etc.

If we reviewed total costs cycles, product quality etc then alot of out global issue stem from manufacturing being pushed for low cost.

How about we just make better products, that offer a better margin and last longer and not pollute as much?

Just my opinion, but thats were Id like to see the world get too. Id pay 30-40% more if I was getting the equivalent life.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Saw a doco on ABC the other day on Australian wool manufacturing. We send our wool over to China for them to wash and clean, then it is sent back here, we make the stuff, then sell it and often back to China.

There were talks about bringing the washing process back to Australia. It will cost $20m per factory, money that your average wool farmer does not have. Then add the labour costs.

This kind of example is where the FedGov should be looking into to support with grants etc to local companies/factories Industries instead of the copious amounts of $$'s wasted in other areas that are not giving back much or little ROI.
Its looking at the big picture that hasn't been done for a long time.
Yes "wages" here is the big killer, more so when talking manufacturing the influence that still occurs due to Unions.
The wool Industry is a good example that could/should come back here for you can see consumrs would pay more, even at Export whereas many other commodities/consumables just won't be worth the effort being Aussie Made.
Pick the "eyes" Industries that present a viable case back here would be a great start.

[T3rminator]

Agreed. Would have loved to see some of that $260b spent on the likes of what we are talking about here. Even 1% of that pool would help immensely.

But there is another problem. What if someone like NZ were to exploit the commercial advantages of using China? Then they sell the same wool products for 30% cheaper. We lose.

It would have been great to see how the region could have used the proposed TPP to influence the likes of China and restore balance. But guess who destroyed that idea......

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Agreed. Would have loved to see some of that $260b spent on the likes of what we are talking about here. Even 1% of that pool would help immensely.

But there is another problem. What if someone like NZ were to exploit the commercial advantages of using China? Then they sell the same wool products for 30% cheaper. We lose.

It would have been great to see how the region could have used the proposed TPP to influence the likes of China and restore balance. But guess who destroyed that idea......

We need to start promoting, talking and changing the culture of how we consume and it would take time.

But, IMO the younger generations are far more open to discussions about the environment, they/we need to be challenge in how we consume and live out lifes.

Huge subject, but you have to start somewhere, and it would mean one day more jobs at a lower level domestically which is what we need. Not everyone can work in IT.

For example, in our family we have made a conscious decision to get the kids just 1 decent birthday present and to move away from the model of lots of cheap crap that breaks after two weeks use. Ive also requested the same of other family members, we were also collecting to much rubbish and the kids were spoilt.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Saw a doco on ABC the other day on Australian wool manufacturing. We send our wool over to China for them to wash and clean, then it is sent back here, we make the stuff, then sell it and often back to China.

There were talks about bringing the washing process back to Australia. It will cost $20m per factory, money that your average wool farmer does not have. Then add the labour costs.

We had a fairly large (French owned) wool combing plant here which closed some years.

I read somewhere that China could scour wool for 28c a kilo, but here it cost $1.75.

All the while there is a cost difference like that Companies will always look for cheaper offshore alternatives.

But hey, we can still suck all the water from the Darling and the Murrumbidgee and grow the stuff.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Think of he PR bonanza if Govco flipped the bills if the business case stood up.

In recent times $20m to bring long term jobs back doesnt seem like to much.

We really need to look at the sustainability of that example, and its EVERYWHERE, the double handling etc.

If we reviewed total costs cycles, product quality etc then alot of out global issue stem from manufacturing being pushed for low cost.

How about we just make better products, that offer a better margin and last longer and not pollute as much?

Just my opinion, but thats were Id like to see the world get too. Id pay 30-40% more if I was getting the equivalent life.

No one wants to pay for quality, they all complain about price, it's the first thing out of everyone's mouth because they can buy it on eBay cheaper.

90% of people calling me complain about pricing even though you can pick it up within 30 mins or have it tomorrow if you're in metro area in any capital cities in Australia.

Australian manufacturing future is low volume high quality but no one wants to pay the 'high quality' part.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

We had a fairly large (French owned) wool combing plant here which closed some years.

I read somewhere that China could scour wool for 28c a kilo, but here it cost $1.75.

All the while there is a cost difference like that Companies will always look for cheaper offshore alternatives.

But hey, we can still suck all the water from the Darling and the Murrumbidgee and grow the stuff.

Off topic, I know, but reminds me of the Lakes Entrance prawn fisherman who sends his produce overseas for processing. It is cheaper to fly the fresh caught produce overseas, have it processed and then returned than it is to process it here.

Or the Lakes Entrance fish and chip shop that used fresh local Co-op caught fish. Except that all the product was trucked to Melbourne before distribution (because it was more cost effective). Hence, it was then trucked back to Lakes Entrance to the retailer.

With the increasing focus on human impact on our environment, I think the time will come where a product discloses the amount of energy that has gone into providing a product on the shelf for the consumer. This will assist those who wish to reduce their footprint to make better informed decisions, not dissimilar to the food health ratings we currently have.

If/when this eventuates, the concept of sending items offshore for processing will become less palatable for the environmentally-conscious public, and I think this will drive the biggest turnaround in consumer behaviour.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No one wants to pay for quality, they all complain about price, it's the first thing out of everyone's mouth because they can buy it on eBay cheaper.

90% of people calling me complain about pricing even though you can pick it up within 30 mins or have it tomorrow if you're in metro area in any capital cities in Australia.

Australian manufacturing future is low volume high quality but no one wants to pay the 'high quality' part.

But only because we have been conditioned like that.

I clearly remember as a kid of the 90's going to the family Christmas night and our then ZH Fairlane's boot was full to the brim of gifts. It was slightly out fo control (awesome as a kid). Therefore I blame my parents

Seriously though, it can change.

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Hello Goosey,
If you are hanging your hat on rare earths, then I have bad news for you.

Not hanging my hat on anything. I know that the US will lose in a fight against China/NK/Rus. China/NK/Rus have the upper hand with sheer numbers.

Which means we will all be on a slave train to northern siberia within 5 years if we don't nail a war.

You see, rare earths aren't really that rare.

Known this since I was 12.

Drugs are bad mmmkay, but I think we are going to have a bigger problem. Gangs. It has already started. There has been an increase in report of attacks of people of asian decent, particularly in SA.

I don't get along with my neighbours that well, know why?

Not just drugs but by the mindset that everyone wants to rule over each other.

One is a thieving lying mischevious Liberal voting boomer that likes to manipulate everyone in the street against me. I took him to court and we had an agreement that I wouldn't take an AVO out on him if he stopped talking to me, since then he's not only broken that agreement but he also continues to smash his car door and continually intimidate me and my mother on a daily basis.

This person impersonated a police officer in private and threatened to bash my head in meanwhile acting all kind and considerate toward me when he was in public spotlight for everyone to see.

So now everyone in the street thinks I'm the bad guy.

I nearly got my head caved in yesterday by one of my closest friends in the street because he is believing and listening to whatever this person says.

Know what my mum does about it? **** all. I've begged with her to go and talk with him about it but she refuses to do so even if it means getting me off the hook at getting my head bashed in.

Know what living and existing has taught me? That people will do anything and everything for a dollar or a shiney thing and that adults aren't really adults at all, they're children pretending to be adults and they have no idea what they're doing. Most people go along with whatever somebody who thinks that they know what they're doing says because you know, whatever right? why rock the boat? Life is painful enough.

The court system is based upon wizardry, entirely based upon casting spells. Look it up on youtube.

Search for "Judges are High Priest of Baal working under Canon Law"
https://www.goldismoney2.com/threads...non-law.76533/

Think about it, what is consumerism if it isn't a bunch of kids buying shiney things with money to impress one another?

What is fighting and bashing someones head in if it isn't a bunch of kids killing each other over an idea or value?

Human beings are the most selfish self obsessed organism on planet earth that is a fact.

Its already as bad as gangs fighting and thieving and stealing. Its called modern society. Modern society has been tearing itself apart for decades. Or it was never ever stable to begin with.

As far as I'm concerned communism and republicanism are both as bloody as each other and you're all doomed for eternity to fight amongst yourselves forever.

That's why I'm centric, because I realise that both sides are polar oppisites of one other because both sides of the political spectrum have been pitted against one another deliberately by the old Jews 4,000 years ago.

My religious beliefs force me to not take a side for a very good reason. I don't worship Baal and never will.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Not hanging my hat on anything. I know that the US will lose in a fight against China/NK/Rus. China/NK/Rus have the upper hand with sheer numbers.

Which means we will all be on a slave train to northern siberia within 5 years if we don't nail a war.

<snip snip>

My religious beliefs force me to not take a side for a very good reason. I don't worship Baal and never will.

OH mate, sounds like things are a bit rough. I hope it gets better soon. I've only ever experienced a bad neighbour once. That was in the 80s, I was only 10. My dad owned a holden statesman v8, and he would go to work at 5am. It would wake our neighbour and they weren't too pleased. But we didn't have to deal with them for too long because it turns out they were growing something in their backyard that they shouldn't have, and were promptly moved away. My current neighbour is in her 90s and I mow her lawn for her, and she is grateful. Lovely lady. She doesn't even complain about my Ford V8.

War is where old men talk and young men die. If war breaks out I don't think there will be a winner. Only losers from both sides. This won't be a war like Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think you need to worry about being shipped off as a slave, it isn't that kind of war. I don't think we would even see any reds set foot on our soil. But the ramifications will be huge for generations to come. Remember, God promised to never destroy the earth again, like the time of the great flood. Keep the faith.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No one wants to pay for quality, they all complain about price, it's the first thing out of everyone's mouth because they can buy it on eBay cheaper.
.

Don't know about that, there are plenty of people prepared to pay for quality.
If you think that way you end up supplying crap to the bottom of the market.
You might as well start a $2 shop and sell the junk.

[gooseneck]

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Don't know about that, there are plenty of people prepared to pay for quality.
If you think that way you end up supplying crap to the bottom of the market.
You might as well start a $2 shop and sell the junk.

B&M Shifter cable is a good example, $50 on eBay or the one that comes with the shifter is the same El cheapo Chinese one.

Ours made in Melbourne is $200 for the cable, everyone whinges about the price.

You can buy the shifter assembly with the China cable for around $300.

Never mind the backlash on the China cable when it's on the car and it selects between two gears and lunches a box, it's only $50.

Heavy vehicle guys don't mind paying what it costs but the light vehicle market I get people whinging about $2 differences between competition.

It's not uncommon to get people with big dollar builds spit chips over paying $200 for custom cables.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

So it ends up costing you half the price again.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

So it ends up costing you half the price again.

My saying is the poor man pays twice!

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

B&M Shifter cable is a good example, $50 on eBay or the one that comes with the shifter is the same El cheapo Chinese one.

Ours made in Melbourne is $200 for the cable, everyone whinges about the price.

You can buy the shifter assembly with the China cable for around $300.

Never mind the backlash on the China cable when it's on the car and it selects between two gears and lunches a box, it's only $50.

Heavy vehicle guys don't mind paying what it costs but the light vehicle market I get people whinging about $2 differences between competition.

It's not uncommon to get people with big dollar builds spit chips over paying $200 for custom cables.

Similar to the Borg Warner genuine kickdown cables advertised on the bay, I guess.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Similar to the Borg Warner genuine kickdown cables advertised on the bay, I guess.

We've got a manufacturing operation in Melbourne and 15 blokes on the production floor - the building isn't cheap, the power we use is nuts, the guys don't work for a bowl of rice a month and we've got 5 other branches in prominent locations in capital cities.

That's why your B&M shifter cable is $200.

Though if you want to buy 25,000 of them I'm sure I can cut a deal

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My saying is the poor man pays twice!

Spot on.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We've got a manufacturing operation in Melbourne and 15 blokes on the production floor - the building isn't cheap, the power we use is nuts, the guys don't work for a bowl of rice a month and we've got 5 other branches in prominent locations in capital cities.

That's why your B&M shifter cable is $200.

Though if you want to buy 25,000 of them I'm sure I can cut a deal

Yep, you will not whinge about the $200 price when the cheap crap you bought instead, fails you out in the middle of nowhere.

I stand by Gucci's quote....The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

People want quality they don't want to pay through the nose for it so we (me + the human race) will buy the cheap one then buy the quality item if the cheap one doesn't work.

Correct, this is more like it "you get what you pay for".....
Franco you can't beat the human race wanting less for more
2 good sayings one post.

Nature of the beast - back in the ol days "choice" was very limited.
Pre ebay etc things already picked up re Imports providing choice and the WWW brought it even more as we all make use of if desired.
Nothing wrong with that.
TBH back in the day of good ol Aussie made most of us complained what a rip off yet we all carry on about the quality, yer well thats all it came as lol.....
ALL of us like to pay less you incl when it suits and for some its all they can afford.
People behind the counter make judgement or mechanics on a consumers purchase BUT how do you know how deep or shallow their pockets are.
I get it, if your doing a job get it done right the first time but not all in the that position.
My pref is always for the better quality and today I can afford as such BUT I'm also wary of the end price depending its intended use and need to last.
All comes down to how long you wish an item/product to last, so today choice is a good thing imo depending your postion.

[Polyal]

I think an issue is also you can buy a top brand and the quality still not be there, its hard and depends on the application. most people dont have the forethought to say "if this fails what does it mean for me" at the time of purchase.

I suspect members on AFF are alike, research the living hell out of a product before buying and generally make informed choices.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think an issue is also you can buy a top brand and the quality still not be there, its hard and depends on the application. most people dont have the forethought to say "if this fails what does it mean for me" at the time of purchase.

I suspect members on AFF are alike, research the living hell out of a product before buying and generally make informed choices.

Yep. But the important thing is that people have a choice. I have bought plenty of much much cheaper items off ebay that have worked for just as long and functioned just as well.

Ever bought a dog toy from the $2 shops? Some of them last just as long (or short!) as a $40 toy from Petbarn!

But there is one thing my grand dad taught me to never cheap out on....and that's food.

[gooseneck]

Yep stuff from europe is notorius for this. Looks like its a quality product but won't last at all because its designed to fail, planned obsolescence. I actually really hate stuff from Europe. Its all eurotrash to me now. They're just as bad as China. Bosh brake pads, fuel pump, I'd trust those. Bosch Washing machines tho? nope. Nothing where plastic and tons of ICs are involved.

You can design planned obsolescence down to the microscopic scale weather its in a microchip or if its in the design of a water pump by using a slightly inferior rubber compound on the bearings.
Both the microchip and the water pump with the inferior rubber compound are completely and entirely indistinguishable from the thing that will last 10 times longer.

Allegedly Dayco did the same thing and got burned with their belts and had to start using EPDM rubber. And no Contitech is no better. And no just because its made in Germany doesn't mean its better quality, looking at you "Optibelt". https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/dayco-qa/

A slightly more obvious example is using a sleeve bearing in a fan instead of a ball bearing but people were buying sleeve bearings fans for computers for decades. Or using a smaller bearing so it doesn't support much weight in place of a larger bearing which takes less strain on something that calls for a larger bearing.

MOST OFTEN the techniques used are extremely obscure.

This is also why I decided to pop the cover off and repair the overflow hose on my Maytag washing machine from 1997 instead of going off like a goose and buying a new Bosch washing machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChHbz5VVoM "New washing machine, new washing machine, on finance! on finance! take advantage of me! I want to spend $2,000 on a washing machine to wash my $15 trakky dacks!"

As soon as I watched a few repair videos on them on Youtube I was completely disinterested in Bosch washing machines from then on out. This is a great way to find out if a product is rubbish by the way.

To be honest though if you want something that will last you the rest of your life you need to engineer and design and build it yourself. Its not that difficult to learn electronics and design your own PCBs and solder. No bean counter in a corporation will put in a TVS diode to save a circuit from overload. To them that just costs them more money.

[Franco Cozzo]

Good afternoon lads, this afternoon we're discussing CCP interference into our universities!

UNSW's decision to remove social media posts about the erosion of human rights in Hong Kong has attracted a warning from Education Minister Dan Tehan, who said universities should prize free speech as a pillar of Australian democracy.

The university was embroiled in controversy over the weekend when it deleted social media posts and altered an online article following an online protest from Chinese nationalists. The backlash was fuelled by a Sydney-based lawyer with links to the Chinese consulate, who called for students to launch a campaign against UNSW to correct the university's political views.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede....html#comments

The CCP has also established a new online portal that allows people to refer their compatriots to police for political crimes.

The portal, which is accessible in Australia, allows allegations to be made against dissidents for "attacking the party, the state system and major policies," endangering national security, harming the national image and slandering heroes.

Kevin Carrico, a senior lecturer at Monash University, said people of Chinese ethnicity at Australian universities deal with a "type of pressure that is just considerably more intimidating than anything your average student faces".

"I have had students who have had their families pressured simply because they did a presentation on the situation in Tibet or they discussed the historical events of 1989," he said.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...04-p55iht.html

China 'exporting CCP speech controls to Australia' as second university caught in row


The Chinese Communist Party is harnessing an online cyber policing portal, accessible in Australia, to increase its international influence, as it encourages Chinese internet users to dob in acts that undermine Beijing's image.

Australian universities have been engulfed in a fresh row over academic freedom after co-ordinated protests from nationalist Chinese students forced UNSW to take down social media posts critical of the Chinese Communist Party's actions in Hong Kong. UNSW vice-chancellor Ian Jacobs on Wednesday apologised for the decision, telling staff there was "no excuse for our failure in this instance" and the social media posts should never have been removed.

"I apologise for this mistake and reaffirm unequivocally our previous commitment to freedom of expression and academic freedom," he said.

A second Australian educational institution was embroiled in controversy on Wednesday after Charles Darwin University apologised following complaints from Chinese students. The students said an introduction to an assignment was racist after it stated that the coronavirus had originated in China.


The Chinese Communist Party is harnessing an online cyber policing portal, accessible in Australia, to increase its international influence, as it encourages Chinese internet users to dob in acts that undermine Beijing's image.

Australian universities have been engulfed in a fresh row over academic freedom after co-ordinated protests from nationalist Chinese students forced UNSW to take down social media posts critical of the Chinese Communist Party's actions in Hong Kong. UNSW vice-chancellor Ian Jacobs on Wednesday apologised for the decision, telling staff there was "no excuse for our failure in this instance" and the social media posts should never have been removed.

"I apologise for this mistake and reaffirm unequivocally our previous commitment to freedom of expression and academic freedom," he said.

The Chinese Communist Party's Cyberspace Administration portal has encouraged Chinese residents to report political crimes online.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/ch...05-p55irf.html

What an absolute joke, Chinese students encouraged to be good little communists here in Australia and report their own citizens to the CCP for speaking out against their government so their families back home get effected.

Our universities filtering information that the CCP may not approve of.

I reckon there should be a charter of universities that they have to follow if they want government funding, if they don't follow the charter then they don't get government funding and we can determine which ones are on CCP payroll that way.

This way you and your children can make the call on which university is on CCP payroll or not, the CCP ones can educate all the Chinese foreign nationals they want and the rest of us can go to the one that's not on Chinese government books.

[ad2013]

You won't get any argument from me Franco on what you say here, but with the universities I think it is a case of 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' and in this case it is China. I'm sure our federal government is under the same pressure, given it/us/we, like many universities, have solicited such a strong trade relationship with China. Unfortunately it appears in modern society $ generally (it seems?) speak more than ethics/morals/values; so as it is appears to be how it will stay(?)
As for Chinese students dobbing in others to the CCP, well would we really expect anything different? I can't see any problem, (apart from a bit of financial pain to the university sector and those who have taken economic advantage of Chinese students in Australia), in not accepting foreign students into Australian Universities from non-democratic countries, but I'm sure others won't agree. Oh wait, the CCP would object and impose more trade restrictions on Australia!

[Franco Cozzo]

It gets even better - UNSW publishes an apology letter in English and Chinese but the Chinese one leaves out all the important bits

UNSW criticised for letter in Chinese with no mention of freedom of speech
In contrast, letter in English on same issue said university had ‘unequivocal commitment to freedom of expression’

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...edom-of-speech

[T3rminator]

Don't worry folks, it's all under control. Check out the snazzy new layout of the cyber collaboration centre. Looks like they ran out of budget on mouse pads though?

On a serious note, if reports are accurate, unis will become less of a problem going forward. If things continue as they are, I'm predicting a mass exodus, perhaps a move towards online learning. Might be time to offload those student housing investments if you have one.

[Bossxr8]

Has there ever been a country as insecure as modern China? They are as insecure as your average 13 year old girl.

[Franco Cozzo]

ASIO joins Twitter!

ASIO joins Twitter with 'dad joke' about following citizens

Following in the footsteps of its secretive colleagues at the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), ASIO's Twitter debut came with a flourish of self-deprecating humour.

"Hi internet, ASIO here. I spy a new Twitter account," the organisation posted at precisely midday.

"We thought it would be fun if you followed us for a change."

ASIO's big reveal on Twitter coincides with a makeover for the agency, which has just launched a new logo and brand.

But it was unable to snap up the Twitter handle @ASIO, which already exists as a parody of the spy agency.

For the first time in more than 70 years, ASIO also has an official motto, Securing Australia — protecting its people, as well as a modern blue and green logo.

The organisation's director-general Mike Burgess is already an active Twitter user. He joined in 2014 and occasionally uses the social media platform to distribute official statements.

Mr Burgess said the agency's staff had submitted ideas for what the first tweet should be.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12565396?

The ASD also has an official Twitter account

Australian Signals Directorate comes out of the shadows with first ever tweet

One of Australia's most covert spy agencies has exposed itself to the mercy of social media with its very first tweet.

On Monday, an account claiming to belong to the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD) issued a cheeky post to begin life on Twitter.

"Hi internet, ASD here. Long time listener, first time caller."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...tweet/10445794

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

ASIO joins Twitter!



https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12565396?

The ASD also has an official Twitter account



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...tweet/10445794

Thank god that new logo will keep us all safe