LZ Focus (Thai Models)

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by Focii

So I remembered to take some photos of the car after getting the tint done. I got Octane from Tint a Car which is darkest legal. IMHO it looks pretty good.

A very sexy Car.

3,000 KM service was done last week. (Didn't take long to clock up those K's :|). Service went all good.

My Auto Start Stop was no longer functioning again. I didn't try to fix it this time, just left the battery connected so that they can see the issue first hand. They saw the issue and stated "There is no reason for it not to be working. The computer says nothing is wrong. I could not get it to work." They ran out of time for the day and want to spend time on it, so booked it for another time. Hopefully its not a major issue.

Still an amazing car!

[KosCo]

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by csfulton

A very sexy Car.

3,000 KM service was done last week. (Didn't take long to clock up those K's :|). Service went all good.

My Auto Start Stop was no longer functioning again. I didn't try to fix it this time, just left the battery connected so that they can see the issue first hand. They saw the issue and stated "There is no reason for it not to be working. The computer says nothing is wrong. I could not get it to work." They ran out of time for the day and want to spend time on it, so booked it for another time. Hopefully its not a major issue.

Still an amazing car!

Check your owners manual, the start stop function needs to see a lot of things before it will work. To name a few, if the battery is below 75% charge, there is a big difference in ambiente to interior temp with ac just to name a few the system will not allow the start stop function to work so the engine can still charge the battery and keep your electrical items like radio and lights working and so it does not get too hot inside the car. There are heaps of things the PCM needs to see before the function works. I am sure it is describved in the OM..

[sparkle6856]

Originally Posted by KosCo

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

I am finding the sync 2 to be a huge improvement. My phone connects immediately (which used to take til I was halfway to my destination in my lw) and the voice recognition works very well.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Check your owners manual, the start stop function needs to see a lot of things before it will work. To name a few, if the battery is below 75% charge, there is a big difference in ambiente to interior temp with ac just to name a few the system will not allow the start stop function to work so the engine can still charge the battery and keep your electrical items like radio and lights working and so it does not get too hot inside the car. There are heaps of things the PCM needs to see before the function works. I am sure it is describved in the OM..

I know and understand that. The issue is that it is not functioning. The symbol appears, car is in neutral and foot is off the clutch, the Engine keeps running.

I know that I can open the bonnet right now, and disconnect the battery for 10 mins, reconnect the battery, drive it again in the same conditions and it will be 100% back to normal turning off the car engine at almost every intersection. This is what happened last time.

Like how you expect the car to turn off when you turn the ignition. Taking the foot off the clutch doesn't turn off the car. Its noticeable after driving for half an hour and its not turning off at all or ever since it first did not turn off.

Ok maybe there a reason behind it, but in previous similar conditions it would normally turn off it is not. Maybe I am completely wrong about this, but the manual also states "Note: If the system detects a malfunction, it turns off. If it remains inactive after an ignition cycle, have your vehicle checked by an authorized dealer"

I took it back to the dealer and I was told "I cannot get it to work. I checked with the computer and it said there was no faults or reason for the car to not turn off." It would be odd for a Ford mechanic to ask me to come back with the car just to spend more time the Auto Start Stop if it was in a normal state. The mechanic even understood that disconnecting the battery would solve it and was not an acceptable solution to this problem.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by csfulton

I know and understand that. The issue is that it is not functioning. The symbol appears, car is in neutral and foot is off the clutch, the Engine keeps running.



I know that I can open the bonnet right now, and disconnect the battery for 10 mins, reconnect the battery, drive it again in the same conditions and it will be 100% back to normal turning off the car engine at almost every intersection. This is what happened last time.



Like how you expect the car to turn off when you turn the ignition. Taking the foot off the clutch doesn't turn off the car. Its noticeable after driving for half an hour and its not turning off at all or ever since it first did not turn off.



Ok maybe there a reason behind it, but in previous similar conditions it would normally turn off it is not. Maybe I am completely wrong about this, but the manual also states "Note: If the system detects a malfunction, it turns off. If it remains inactive after an ignition cycle, have your vehicle checked by an authorized dealer"



I took it back to the dealer and I was told "I cannot get it to work. I checked with the computer and it said there was no faults or reason for the car to not turn off." It would be odd for a Ford mechanic to ask me to come back with the car just to spend more time the Auto Start Stop if it was in a normal state. The mechanic even understood that disconnecting the battery would solve it and was not an acceptable solution to this problem.

So what's your beef? Did disconnecting the battery fix it permanently?
Why would it be unusual for a mechanic to ask for more time if they don't know what's wrong?

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by csfulton

The symbol appears

By 'symbol' you mean a crossed out A in a circle?

If so, then stop/start is unavailable while this symbol is showing. As GTLEGEND pointed out there are a myriad of circumstances that would make it unavailable.

Certainly if it continues, then you should take it back to the dealer.

Despite what anyone else says, I would never recommend disconnecting/reconnecting the battery on these cars that are heavily reliant on electronics, to 'fix' an issue.

I would give it a week and go back to the dealer and get them to sort it out.

[GTLEGEND]

Best way to test is go to a dealer, leave over night parked next to another exact like vehicle. Go back in morning drive both in identical conditions (so engine temps are identical) including gear selected, all ac modes and temperature etc and both cars should work the same, communicate via bluetooth on phone whilst driving and both drivers to communicate to see if auto start stop works or not. Both cars should behave the same, if not you might have a problem. Remember both cars must be identical in specification...like for like exactly (excluding paint colour).

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

Despite what anyone else says, I would never recommend disconnecting/reconnecting the battery on these cars that are heavily reliant on electronics, to 'fix' an issue.

Why not?
What's the first thing that every single IT professional does to fix a computer problem? He turns it off and re-boots it. Cars are the same. They are now just mobile computers and sometimes they get glitches. Disconnecting the battery can reset a lot of modules and clear any glitches in the system. Not always and of course if your symptoms persist see your health care professional.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Best way to test is go to a dealer, leave over night parked next to another exact like vehicle. Go back in morning drive both in identical conditions (so engine temps are identical) including gear selected, all ac modes and temperature etc and both cars should work the same, communicate via bluetooth on phone whilst driving and both drivers to communicate to see if auto start stop works or not. Both cars should behave the same, if not you might have a problem. Remember both cars must be identical in specification...like for like exactly (excluding paint colour).

And when it's discovered that one of them is faulty, what then?
Is there any pin point tests in the workshop manual for this test?
I haven't looked in the workshop manual but I'd bet my nuts there isn't.


There may be some stupid flow chart that goes;
Is system working?
Yes=system is operating normally
No= system is not operating normally.

Very helpful.

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Why not?
What's the first thing that every single IT professional does to fix a computer problem? He turns it off and re-boots it. Cars are the same.

We are talking about a new car here. I think disconnecting battery to fix a glitch is a rather inelegant solution in this case, when instead, it should be dealt by a dealer mechanic in the first place. Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

I recognise you have a problem and you are trying to resolve the issue through your dealer. This is the best and safest course of action. Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery may inadvertently cause other problems that may not be immediately apparent and, as any IT pro knows, even reboots don't solve all problems.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

Yes, since it's under warranty the problem that I am having with the car should be resolved without requiring me to disconnect the battery.

Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery may inadvertently cause other problems that may not be immediately apparent and, as any IT pro knows, even reboots don't solve all problems.

Actually. Disconnecting the battery did resolve the issues and I didn't notice any problems caused by it. Except this was not permanent and the issue came back, it lasted sometime before it did recur.

IT people will ask you to restart the PC because of the huge complexity of computers and finding a fix for software that they do not have control over is not easy. Good IT support will spend time on finding a solution to the problem and if unable to resolve will report it to the required people to fix in their software.

Me going to my Ford dealer means that they can use the tools provided to them to test and find the issue, where they can actually see if the battery is low, the temp is too hot/cold, or whatever the issue may be.

The Ford mechanic said that he could not see a reason for it not to enable. Which inevitably means that there is a problem with the Car somewhere that is not clear and it is forcing the Auto Start Stop not to enable. He checked the car computer and found no issues.

[GTLEGEND]

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

Auto Start Stop
The auto start stop system helps reduce fuel consumption and decrease emissions by automatically shutting down the engine when the vehicle stops and the engine is idling, usually within 1500 ms (1.5 seconds). To initiate the auto start stop operation, the vehicle gear selector must be in DRIVE when the vehicle comes to a stop and the brake pedal must be fully applied. The engine automatically restarts when the brake pedal is released, usually within 200 ms (0.5 seconds), or when a vehicle system requires a restart, for example to recharge the battery or to maintain interior comfort settings.
The auto start stop system is defaulted to an ON state when the engine is started. To switch the auto start stop system OFF, press the auto start stop switch located on the center console. To turn the auto start stop system ON, press the auto start stop switch again. The auto start stop system can only be deactivated during the current ignition cycle.
The instrument panel cluster (IPC) auto start stop indicator illuminates when an auto start stop system inhibit or disable condition is present.
During normal operation the auto start stop system may not stop the engine under the following conditions:

• The A/C, heat or defrost settings are ON
• The rear defroster is ON
• The battery has a low state of charge or is below 5°C (41°F) or above 60°C (140°F)
• The maximum engine off time is exceeded
• The engine operating temperature is less than 60°C (140°F)
• The gear selector is in the PARK, REVERSE, NEUTRAL or SECOND GEAR position
• The steering wheel is turned rapidly or is at a sharp angle
• Initial vehicle speed of greater than 4 km/h (2.5 MPH) and less than 2 seconds has elapsed
• The vehicle is on a steep road grade
• Elevation is above 10,000 feet (3,048 meters) approximately

Any of the following conditions may result in an automatic restart of the engine:

• The blower fan speed is increased or the climate control temperature is changed
• An electrical accessory is turned ON or plugged in
• Incorrect brake vacuum
• The auto start stop switch is pressed to disable the system while the engine is stopped

[Focii]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

I think it's fairly safe to say that, yes, there are things that prevent the 'auto stop-start' from operating.

In saying that, the issue that csfulton experiences seems to be an exception to the experiences we're all experiencing here. We can probably assume that everyone's car has identical perimeters (with the exception of Auto vs. Manual), software and hardware. Considering this, it is strange that csfulton's Focus goes into a state where it no longer ever 'Stop Starts'. No one else has reported this.

@csfulton out of interest you mention that the stop-start 'symbol' appears, but the engine does not shut off. Do you mean the green A with the circle shaped arrow?

[4cyl_Turbo]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

Listing all the potential parameters that could cause the issue, although useful, probably isn't helping. Csfulton hasn't always had the issue, so knows when it used to operate 'correctly'. Csfulton has also reset it once and it worked normally again for a while after that.

When driving the same route, at the same time, in same conditions to work each day, you get to know when stop/start is normally available. It is quite obvious when it behaves differently.

Getting Ford onto the job is the best starting point.
Ask for a Focus loan car and then csfulton can directly compare the two cars.

I expect Ford to hand it back, saying they can't find anything wrong.
If no fault codes are set, then there are just too many potential things to check/try. Not cost effective for local dealers time.

Ask them to fit a battery isolation switch and provide a letter stating that disconnecting the battery won't cause any issues and that they will accept any issues if they occur by using the isolator to reset the start/stop system. They might suddenly be prepared to spend more time fault finding it then.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by Focii

@csfulton out of interest you mention that the stop-start 'symbol' appears, but the engine does not shut off. Do you mean the green A with the circle shaped arrow?

The grey A circle symbol with a line across it.

I tested stalling the car to see if it would start back up when pressing the clutch and it did.

Originally Posted by 4cyl_Turbo

I expect Ford to hand it back, saying they can't find anything wrong.
If no fault codes are set, then there are just too many potential things to check/try. Not cost effective for local dealers time.

Ask them to fit a battery isolation switch and provide a letter stating that disconnecting the battery won't cause any issues and that they will accept any issues if they occur by using the isolator to reset the start/stop system. They might suddenly be prepared to spend more time fault finding it then.

I am sure that is likely to be their solution. Fingers crossed that some other people come across the problem and possibly a solution can be found.

[Focii]

Originally Posted by 4cyl_Turbo

I expect Ford to hand it back, saying they can't find anything wrong. If no fault codes are set, then there are just too many potential things to check/try. Not cost effective for local dealers time.

I think this is crux of the issue here. If a Ford dealer receives newly released car, with an issue they don't understand, then they should reassure a customer they'll get to the bottom of it, not just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

When I took my car in for the 3000km service, I wanted to explain the "Sync 2 noise from hell issue" to them and show them the video I took of what happened. Then at the service desk, the guy didn't even entertain the idea of looking at the video and just said - "yeah, we'll reset sync".

To me, Ford dealers especially, need to pick up their game when listening to and helping customers with their cars.

Sure, 90% of people who drop their car off and want nothing to do with the finer details/are a bit clueless, but dealers need to realise there are people who really do care/understand how cars work and operate, and these are the people who'll influence other peoples car buying decisions.

@csfulton Surely the cars computer would see the car come to a complete stop, "think" about stopping, and then not for 'x' reason(s). I think Ford would have a way of reading the cars computer and finding out what 'x' reason(s) is, it just maybe a case of this being all too 'new' for dealers to troubleshoot correctly.

In this case, they should really be looking to Ford HQ for some answers, and getting it sorted for you.

[Focii]

Originally Posted by KosCo

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

Apart from a slight glitch a few people around here have experienced with a crazy loud static noise randomly coming on (it's only happened once for me), it's awesome.

You'll probably read a lot of reviews online about it being slow and unresponsive, but I've got to say, I've not had any issues with its responsiveness, and I find it really easy to use.

I think we were lucky in that we got Sync 2 a couple of years after it came it in the US, so a lot of the bugs were ironed out.

Voice control is mostly awesome (you do have to learn certain commands). I love how much information is displayed on each quadrant.

Put this way, my Dad was driving my car the other day and said Sync 2 is way better than the MMI system on his Audi A3. He bloody hates MMI (mostly because of the rubbish Sat Nav).

[KosCo]

Originally Posted by Focii

Apart from a slight glitch a few people around here have experienced with a crazy loud static noise randomly coming on (it's only happened once for me), it's awesome.

You'll probably read a lot of reviews online about it being slow and unresponsive, but I've got to say, I've not had any issues with its responsiveness, and I find it really easy to use.

I think we were lucky in that we got Sync 2 a couple of years after it came it in the US, so a lot of the bugs were ironed out.

Voice control is mostly awesome (you do have to learn certain commands). I love how much information is displayed on each quadrant.

Put this way, my Dad was driving my car the other day and said Sync 2 is way better than the MMI system on his Audi A3. He bloody hates MMI (mostly because of the rubbish Sat Nav).

Thanks for the info there. We may be looking at a new LZ Titanium later in the year so am interested in many of the comments here. The SYNC 2 is a major feature of the car and especially how the turbochared engine and gearbox are going.

[NormM67]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

We are talking about a new car here. I think disconnecting battery to fix a glitch is a rather inelegant solution in this case, when instead, it should be dealt by a dealer mechanic in the first place. Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

I see no problems whatsoever in doing this. Why waste a day (or hours) at a dealer having them look at something you can fix yourself. They'd probably yank the battery themselves if some system needed a reset.

As for warranty, no way they could use disconnecting the battery as an excuse. I think your being extremely paranoid in this regard.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by NormM67

I see no problems whatsoever in doing this. Why waste a day (or hours) at a dealer having them look at something you can fix yourself. They'd probably yank the battery themselves if some system needed a reset.



As for warranty, no way they could use disconnecting the battery as an excuse. I think your being extremely paranoid in this regard.

This is where I'm coming from. Sometimes new cars come with a few little glitches and resetting things can sort it out. Why waste hours going to the dealer when you may be able to fix it yourself in 5 minutes. Of course if the problem returns it needs to go in for repair.
There will be nothing in Fords workshop manual on diagnosing problems with this complex system so I suspect the dealer will want it for a few days.

[4cyl_Turbo]

Originally Posted by csfulton

The grey A circle symbol with a line across it.

You don't happen to be driving around in Sports mode?
That disables stop/start.

[Focii]

Originally Posted by 4cyl_Turbo

You don't happen to be driving around in Sports mode?
That disables stop/start.

He's got a manual.. It's always in Sports mode ;)

[NormM67]

Originally Posted by Focii

He's got a manual.. It's always in Sports mode ;)

[to4garret]

Useless piece of information: I just noticed the Speedo goes up in Increments of 5 until 60kph, then it goes up in Increments of 10.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

[*]The battery has a low state of charge or is below 5°C (41°F) or above 60°C (140°F)

GTLEGEND, You were correct.

I started testing the battery and found that the voltage was indeed very low while the car was off for a while. Going as low as 12.30 V. Now there is only one thing that is discharging the battery while stopped and thats the Dash Camera.

So I set the camera to turn off when the car is off, and went on an hour and a half drive. Parked the car off for half an hour, the battery was much better at 12.65 V. So I started the car and did a short drive around the block to see if the car engine will turn off when stopped. No luck.

I left the camera off for the whole night, and the next morning on the way to work it worked at the first intersection. It does seem to be the camera is draining the battery. Looks like I need to find a solution to charge it while stationary.

I set the camera back to on when the car is off, and the car is still working. Turning off at lights after a week.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by Focii

He's got a manual.. It's always in Sports mode ;)

Absolutely mate. The sport mode in a manual is amazing. The gear changes are always exactly when I want them, both Up and Down gears.

The 5.8L/100Km is a lie in this car. This car is way too much fun for that.

[4cyl_Turbo]

Originally Posted by csfulton

GTLEGEND, You were correct.

I started testing the battery and found that the voltage was indeed very low while the car was off for a while. Going as low as 12.30 V.

I have always had a dashcam attached and never had an issue with stop/start.

Are you using the cig outlet or USB to power the cam?
What brand/model of cam?

Has anyone bothered connecting an OBD2 port wifi/Bluetooth adapter?
I have one that I used on my previous car, but haven't got around to trying it on the Focus yet.

They can be useful to check various readings that aren't normally visible.
Eg. Coolant temp, battery voltage, loads of sensors etc.
You need an iPhone or android app to display and potentially read/reset codes.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by 4cyl_Turbo

I have always had a dashcam attached and never had an issue with stop/start.

Are you using the cig outlet or USB to power the cam?
What brand/model of cam?

BLACKVUE DR650GW-2CH

Using two added circuits on the fuse box under the glove box. One circuit is 24/7 battery and one circuit for ignition. It is designed to turn off power to the cam at 12V and turn back on when the ignition is on. As far as I am aware it has not reached 12 volts, so the camera has never turned off.

[kevino]

Cs Fulton- what fuel economy are you achieving?