So is it the end of the Holden??

[1TUFFUTE]

seeing as these days it seems and im sure is fact...that only forum members like us even know any facts about who what and where our cars come from. So whats stopping them from sending over american modelslike the impala or whatever models suit large down to small segments...and just rebadge and or repackage them for austrlain conditions and name plates. Im sure ford could get away with this even easier from what ive heard recently. And perhaps to keep aussie jobs let all the production or assembly of them happen here...even tho there american...or whereever their cars come from...

[dkpioe]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

But is that $20K worker paying Australian bills for a mortgage, electricity/gas/water, petrol, insurance, schooling, health care, it's all relative. I constantly laugh at people saying for example South Korea is a low labour cost country, it's not as a ship building doco clearly highlighted, it's because of their greater efficiencies and volume of output that dictates why they build ships faster and cheaper. Or the glass factory in China that doesn't have 10,000 low paid workers blowing on the glass to cool it, rather a state of the art plant that has an output greater then all the Australian glass factories combined thus it sells more for less margins.

pensioners in australian survive on about 15k. most aussies could survive easily on 35k, but their spending habits are too high, and many buy everything on credit, IT IS A HUGE CULTURAL ISSUE, aussie thing they are worth more they can afford. the australian workplace seems overpaid to me, especially the tradies (who usually do a crap job compared to other coutries tradies who respect their profession for their whole life), yet they still seem to be in dept??? i cant get my head around it. i know many european families in australia that have 4 or 5 kids, one parent works at a low pay rate, one relies on centrelink payments, and they still manage to pay off their house quicker then a aussies who earn 100k a year. because they cook dinners for $8 that feed 6 people and are money smart, and are not "pay full price, chuck half in the bin" type people.

This expectation of higher pay for australian workers is killing all the big companies like Ford, Holden and Qantas. they cant keep up. our aussie greed of a comfortable life and this quiet unspoken arrogance is the direct fault of ford and holden soon to go bankrupt and qantus and other companies going overseas for labour. Well maybe i am a bit harsh, its politics too, the politicians should take some of the blame for the policies that bought this about.

Also, house prices have gone up unrealistically in the last decade in australia, making a minority rich, while the rest have to re evalutate their living expenses (which they havent! and keep on spending...), in a luxury country like australia, the people are used to luxury and spending luxuriously, so not many people save and look for discounts. now we are looking at the same fate as america, with housing forclosures, and a collapse in the housing market. Who rigged this housing price rort?? i guess its capitilism at work again.

at the end of the day, i dont care if holden, or ford go bankrupt, they are greed hungry corporations, they do not do any good for the community (bar a few hundred aussies who work for them, who could get the same pay of better jobs elsewhere in employment rich australia), i dont care for name brands, mcdonalds, nike, ford, holden - they are all criminal greedy corporations to me and are not getting any of my money. i will buy their products in the second hand market, but i have no emotitional attachment to the "Falcon" or "Commodore" name, and dont care if those brand names die away.

i cant believe the things i have read on this forum and how attached people are to a "brand", its like they have nothing else to live for but to think about their "brand - Falcon" everyday, making a corporation in America richer, while making themselves poorer at the same time without knowing it, the corporation wins....

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

pensioners in australian survive on about 15k. most aussies could survive easily on 35k, but their spending habits are too high, and many buy everything on credit, IT IS A HUGE CULTURAL ISSUE, aussie thing they are worth more they can afford. the australian workplace seems overpaid to me, especially the tradies (who usually do a crap job compared to other coutries tradies who respect their profession for their whole life), yet they still seem to be in dept??? i cant get my head around it. i know many european families in australia that have 4 or 5 kids, one parent works at a low pay rate, one relies on centrelink payments, and they still manage to pay off their house quicker then a aussies who earn 100k a year. because they cook dinners for $8 that feed 6 people and are money smart, and are not "pay full price, chuck half in the bin" type people.

This expectation of higher pay for australian workers is killing all the big companies like Ford, Holden and Qantas. they cant keep up. our aussie greed of a comfortable life and this quiet unspoken arrogance is the direct fault of ford and holden soon to go bankrupt and qantus and other companies going overseas for labour. Well maybe i am a bit harsh, its politics too, the politicians should take some of the blame for the policies that bought this about.

Also, house prices have gone up unrealistically in the last decade in australia, making a minority rich, while the rest have to re evalutate their living expenses (which they havent! and keep on spending...), in a luxury country like australia, the people are used to luxury and spending luxuriously, so not many people save and look for discounts. now we are looking at the same fate as america, with housing forclosures, and a collapse in the housing market. Who rigged this housing price rort?? i guess its capitilism at work again.

at the end of the day, i dont care if holden, or ford go bankrupt, they are greed hungry corporations, they do not do any good for the community (bar a few hundred aussies who work for them, who could get the same pay of better jobs elsewhere in employment rich australia), i dont care for name brands, mcdonalds, nike, ford, holden - they are all criminal greedy corporations to me and are not getting any of my money. i will buy their products in the second hand market, but i have no emotitional attachment to the "Falcon" or "Commodore" name, and dont care if those brand names die away.

i cant believe the things i have read on this forum and how attached people are to a "brand", its like they have nothing else to live for but to think about their "brand - Falcon" everyday, making a corporation in America richer, while making themselves poorer at the same time without knowing it, the corporation wins....

While I don't really agree with anything here I did find your contrasting opinion to be quite an interesting read.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

pensioners in australian survive on about 15k. most aussies could survive easily on 35k, but their spending habits are too high, and many buy everything on credit, IT IS A HUGE CULTURAL ISSUE, aussie thing they are worth more they can afford. the australian workplace seems overpaid to me, especially the tradies (who usually do a crap job compared to other coutries tradies who respect their profession for their whole life), yet they still seem to be in dept??? i cant get my head around it. i know many european families in australia that have 4 or 5 kids, one parent works at a low pay rate, one relies on centrelink payments, and they still manage to pay off their house quicker then a aussies who earn 100k a year. because they cook dinners for $8 that feed 6 people and are money smart, and are not "pay full price, chuck half in the bin" type people.

This expectation of higher pay for australian workers is killing all the big companies like Ford, Holden and Qantas. they cant keep up. our aussie greed of a comfortable life and this quiet unspoken arrogance is the direct fault of ford and holden soon to go bankrupt and qantus and other companies going overseas for labour. Well maybe i am a bit harsh, its politics too, the politicians should take some of the blame for the policies that bought this about.

Also, house prices have gone up unrealistically in the last decade in australia, making a minority rich, while the rest have to re evalutate their living expenses (which they havent! and keep on spending...), in a luxury country like australia, the people are used to luxury and spending luxuriously, so not many people save and look for discounts. now we are looking at the same fate as america, with housing forclosures, and a collapse in the housing market. Who rigged this housing price rort?? i guess its capitilism at work again.

i cant believe the things i have read on this forum and how attached people are to a "brand", its like they have nothing else to live for but to think about their "brand - Falcon" everyday, making a corporation in America richer, while making themselves poorer at the same time without knowing it, the corporation wins....

Great post, and although you'll get pleanty of detractors, right on the money.

This country, although seemingly steaming along on its resources boom, is stuck in a glut of debt.
High debt enabled by high wages which is needed to service the debt and in turn puts unbearable pressure on local industry to compete against the cheaper off shore alternative.
Its going to get even worse now as every man and his dog go chasing the big $$'s on mine sites leaving other industries with staff shortages.
Their only option is to either put up their prices to enable a greater carrot to attract people back, esentially pricing themselves out of the market. Invest big money to simplify production which in todays climate is far from gauranteed or pack up and move elsewhere.

We've been led to believe that the once great Aussie dream can now be had for little effort.
We all want the McMansion, the new sled in the drive, a boat etc.
We all need more money to get it.
But apart from a few holes in the ground or a portfolio of property the options are running out and at what cost...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

And there is a quite active thread asking why people aren't buying Falcons. Or would this particular thread be something just to fill in some time? I don't know....Maybe you would.

Not selling means not making money in my book. So one would have to ask ones self, why wouldn't they be selling???? Would it be due to lack of advertising....I don't know.....Would it be due to the after sales service?....I don't know. I've got no facts backing it up. Only what has been put on this very forum.

people have been complaining about ford's advertising (and ford) for many years on here. the last figures i saw on ford and holden were probably 18 months ago. at that stage ford were making more money - from memory holden had lost close to 2 billion over the last 9 years. either way ford were making money more often than holden with less advertising

Originally Posted by gtxb67

plus a whole lot of worthless advertising that soaks up millions of dollars. if you are going to sell the car anyway, why do you need a huge sign up on mount buller and other ridiculous places. maybe their fan base has the memory span of a goldfish and needs to be constantly reminded
maybe they could try super-liminal advertising next - oh wait, they already have thousands of bogans to do that for them

and before this debate goes miles from my original post, i never said tv advertising. i suggested "worthless advertising" and gave an example. prototypes could be considered advertising in a way as well. the w427 concept was not really to make money, but to showcase what they could do. how much did they lose from that. the list could go on and on long before we get to tv

[burnz]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

people have been complaining about ford's advertising (and ford) for many years on here. the last figures i saw on ford and holden were probably 18 months ago. at that stage ford were making more money - from memory holden had lost close to 2 billion over the last 9 years. either way ford were making money more often than holden with less advertising




and before this debate goes miles from my original post, i never said tv advertising. i suggested "worthless advertising" and gave an example. prototypes could be considered advertising in a way as well. the w427 concept was not really to make money, but to showcase what they could do. how much did they lose from that. the list could go on and on long before we get to tv

holden has lost 579 mill in ten years
allso over same 10 yrs they have 1.2bill profit

so 600mill for 2000~2010 profit..

2000: $135 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2004: $216 million net profit
2005: $145 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2009: $211 million net loss
2010: $112 million net profit

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by burnz

holden has lost 579 mill in ten years
allso over same 10 yrs they have 1.2bill profit

so 600mill for 2000~2010 profit..

2000: $135 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2004: $216 million net profit
2005: $145 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2009: $211 million net loss
2010: $112 million net profit

cool, they are different to the figures i have seen, but the ones i saw may have been wrong

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

pensioners in australian survive on about 15k. most aussies could survive easily on 35k, but their spending habits are too high, and many buy everything on credit, IT IS A HUGE CULTURAL ISSUE, aussie thing they are worth more they can afford. the australian workplace seems overpaid to me, especially the tradies (who usually do a crap job compared to other coutries tradies who respect their profession for their whole life), yet they still seem to be in dept??? i cant get my head around it. i know many european families in australia that have 4 or 5 kids, one parent works at a low pay rate, one relies on centrelink payments, and they still manage to pay off their house quicker then a aussies who earn 100k a year. because they cook dinners for $8 that feed 6 people and are money smart, and are not "pay full price, chuck half in the bin" type people.

This expectation of higher pay for australian workers is killing all the big companies like Ford, Holden and Qantas. they cant keep up. our aussie greed of a comfortable life and this quiet unspoken arrogance is the direct fault of ford and holden soon to go bankrupt and qantus and other companies going overseas for labour. Well maybe i am a bit harsh, its politics too, the politicians should take some of the blame for the policies that bought this about.

Also, house prices have gone up unrealistically in the last decade in australia, making a minority rich, while the rest have to re evalutate their living expenses (which they havent! and keep on spending...), in a luxury country like australia, the people are used to luxury and spending luxuriously, so not many people save and look for discounts. now we are looking at the same fate as america, with housing forclosures, and a collapse in the housing market. Who rigged this housing price rort?? i guess its capitilism at work again.

at the end of the day, i dont care if holden, or ford go bankrupt, they are greed hungry corporations, they do not do any good for the community (bar a few hundred aussies who work for them, who could get the same pay of better jobs elsewhere in employment rich australia), i dont care for name brands, mcdonalds, nike, ford, holden - they are all criminal greedy corporations to me and are not getting any of my money. i will buy their products in the second hand market, but i have no emotitional attachment to the "Falcon" or "Commodore" name, and dont care if those brand names die away.

i cant believe the things i have read on this forum and how attached people are to a "brand", its like they have nothing else to live for but to think about their "brand - Falcon" everyday, making a corporation in America richer, while making themselves poorer at the same time without knowing it, the corporation wins....

Win post.

I agree with a lot of stuff, but also disagree slightly on letting Ford/Holden go down the toilet - can't say that's good for anyone, let alone Australian workers.

BUT, your post does reflect my and my wife's new ethos on life. Eliminate debt, be happy with what we have, buy with cash.

For years I've been pouring money into a car making it faster, look better etc. Then one day I just realised, this is stupid. Sold the car, bought the wife a brand new car (2011 model), sold our second car, bought myself a good, reliable Australian made sedan. 8,000kms on and I haven't had to spend a cent on either car, and we're almost debt free - should be debt free by the end of 2012.

To keep the post on topic, I doubt the Australian government, well, in it's current incarnation anyway, will let Holden go broke in Australia. Who knows what will happen when the Libs get in.

[MelsGolf]

Originally Posted by burnz

holden has lost 579 mill in ten years
allso over same 10 yrs they have 1.2bill profit

so 600mill for 2000~2010 profit..

2000: $135 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2004: $216 million net profit
2005: $145 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2009: $211 million net loss
2010: $112 million net profit

WOWEE!!!!, i had no idea Holden were going that bad, so in the past 6 years Holden has lost 467 Million dollars?? VE must surely go down as a massive failure for them.

[burnz]

2000 – $16 million loss
2001 – $5.5 million loss
2002 – $20 million profit
2003 – $154 million profit
2004 – $192 million profit
2005 – $148 million profit
2006 – $40.3 million loss
2007 – $87.2 million loss
2008 – $274.4 million loss
2009 - $13 million profit
2010 - $25 million profit

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by burnz

holden has lost 579 mill in ten years
allso over same 10 yrs they have 1.2bill profit

so 600mill for 2000~2010 profit..

2000: $135 million net profit
2001: $285 million net profit
2002: $257 million net profit
2003: $287 million net profit
2004: $216 million net profit
2005: $145 million net loss
2006: $147 million net loss
2007: $6 million net loss
2008: $70 million net loss
2009: $211 million net loss
2010: $112 million net profit

Good way to skew the figures. Everyone knows they did really well a decade ago. Take away the first 5 years and just use the figures from 2005 and its an absolute bloodbath.

$467 million loss since 2005. Wow.

The billion dollar baby has been a half billion dollar failure.

But to most Holden supporters like yourself Holden are doing better than Ford. Even though Ford has only lost $215 million in the same period, less than half of what Holden have. Holden is more of a failure than what Ford is, especially when you factor in how much more cars they sell than Ford do.

Easy to see who has the superior business plan, although that doesn't count for much when you're still losing money. Holden have stuck pretty well to GM's bankruptcy causing slash and burn sales ethos. Build them and they will sell, even if we have to slash 10k off the price, cause its all about numbers.

Forget profits, its all about that no 1.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Good way to skew the figures. Everyone knows they did really well a decade ago. Take away the first 5 years and just use the figures from 2005 and its an absolute bloodbath.

$467 million loss since 2005. Wow.

The billion dollar baby has been a half billion dollar failure.

But to most Holden supporters like yourself Holden are doing better than Ford.

in burnz' defence, he was replying to a post i made referring to the last 9 years

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

in burnz' defence, he was replying to a post i made referring to the last 9 years

Granted.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Good way to skew the figures. Everyone knows they did really well a decade ago. Take away the first 5 years and just use the figures from 2005 and its an absolute bloodbath.

$467 million loss since 2005. Wow.

The billion dollar baby has been a half billion dollar failure.

But to most Holden supporters like yourself Holden are doing better than Ford. Even though Ford has only lost $215 million in the same period, less than half of what Holden have. Holden is more of a failure than what Ford is, especially when you factor in how much more cars they sell than Ford do.

Easy to see who has the superior business plan, although that doesn't count for much when you're still losing money. Holden have stuck pretty well to GM's bankruptcy causing slash and burn sales ethos. Build them and they will sell, even if we have to slash 10k off the price, cause its all about numbers.

Forget profits, its all about that no 1.

fords losses arnt any better..from 2005.

and both ford holden are sell 2011 plate for around the same price..

[stevz]

Edit....never mind

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

fords losses arnt any better..from 2005.

and both ford holden are sell 2011 plate for around the same price..

I cannot speak about Holden, only what is confirmed, that they build 6,000/mth Commodores
and 4,000/mth Cruze, you guys do the math and make up your own conclusions....


The difference over at Ford is the amounts of stock made and sold. As of early November,
Broadmeadows were only building to order, that would have dried up a lot of FG1 stock
before FGII was released late last year, there may be a few FGs left but nothing like the
+4000 stockpile 12 months ago..that is a good sign starting of the year with a clean slate..

Not beating up on Ford or Holden here, both manufacturers need to tune into the market and build
what buyers want, in sufficient quantities so that dealers have stock at hand for on the spot buyers.
Ford got caught 18 months ago trying to sub petrol I-6s to fleets when they stopped LPG and paid for it.
Surprisingly, the retail prices they got for most of those stockpiled XR6s was actually more than the intended fleet price.

In 2009 Ford made 13 million profit,

In 2010 Ford made $25 million profit selling less Falcons and Territorys

Can they confound the market analysts with yet another profit in 2011?

It's a conspiracy I tells ya...

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I cannot speak about Holden, only what is confirmed, that they build 6,000/mth Commodores
and 4,000/mth Cruze, you guys do the math and make up your own conclusions....

How can they possibly build that much Commodores? They havent come close to that figure in months maybe years. They arents even selling half that atm. Figures have to be wrong.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

How can they possibly build that much Commodores? They havent come close to that figure in months maybe years. They arents even selling half that atm. Figures have to be wrong.

You tell me, factory is set at 300/day Commodore production and 185/day Cruze production.
Those figures were rleased to the press by Holden and reported in Go Auto late last year.

Quick google, car advice:

Holden Cruze hatch boosts Australian production to 480 cars per day
LINK
By Tim Beissmann | November 08th, 2011

The addition of the Holden Cruze hatch to the Elizabeth assembly line has boosted GM Holden’s production to 480 vehicles per day.

The Australian-designed and -developed Holden Cruze hatch launched locally today, joining the Cruze sedan, which has quickly established itself as one of the most popular cars in the country.

The addition of the Cruze hatch to the Holden Vehicle Operations (HVO) facility in South Australia increases daily production at Holden by 12 per cent – adding 50 vehicles a day over two shifts.

Holden says the Cruze sedan and hatch account for approximately 185 of the 480 vehicles produced every day. The HVO plant now makes 51 different models on two platforms, including nine variants, six body styles and left- and right-hand drive cars.

But of course, I could have just pulled those figures out of my.......

we just don't know how good Holden's exports are any more, they could be making thousands of Caprice PPVs for USA.....
And thousands of Commodores for the Middle East market, something that has seen up to 85% die back....

[burnz]

40,617 commodore 2011
33,784 cruzes 2011

holdens total volume 126,095

http://media.gm.com/content/media/au...ruzeintopfive1

[Windsor220]

I suppose ute has to be factored in at around 1000 of those built but even still. They must have a massive amount of stock sitting around. Where is it all?

[jpd80]

Here's more figures I pulled out of my ....

Middle East joins Brazil and stops importing Australia’s top-selling car
words - Joshua Dowling
Published : Monday, 14 November 2011

The strong Australian dollar has claimed another trade deal. Exports of the Holden Commodore to the Middle East have stopped just months after shipments to Brazil ceased.

Both export deals were small – Brazil was forecast to take 600 or so Commodores each year and the Middle East only took 150 cars last year (2010)– but they are symbolic of the dilemma facing Holden and its Australian manufacturing operations.

The car maker was hoping to export its way to a brighter future and better viability but the strong Australian dollar – which has risen 30 per cent since the recent export deals were announced – have made the trade deals uncompetitive and unprofitable.

In the meantime, Holden will continue to export the Caprice limousine to the Middle East – the same car it is trying to sell to the US as a police car – because it is protected somewhat by a higher retail price and profit margin.

Holden sold about 4000 Caprices in the Middle East last year (2010)– twice as many as were sold locally in the same period, but still only a fraction of the Caprice’s Middle East sales peak of 12,000 sales in the mid-2000s.

If Holden is struggling for the Commodore to make a business case then it is likely that Toyota, Australia’s biggest vehicle exporter, is also under financial strain.

More than two-thirds of the Camry sedans made at Toyota Australia’s factory in Altona – between 55,000 and 92,000 cars each year – are shipped to the Middle East.

The president and managing director of General Motors’ Middle East Operations, John Stadwick, said the remaining stock of Commodores (sold as a Lumina there) would not be replaced in the new year – and he expected buyers would instead opt for the new Malibu mid-size sedan or the Camaro SS coupe.

“We’re not selling the Lumina here in 2012,” Stadwick said. “We have the all-new Malibu and we also have the Camaro. The plan of record for a while now has been to discontinue the Lumina and go with the Camaro and the Malibu.”

However, Stadwick said the Caprice export deal was safe for the time being.

“The Caprice is a very strong nameplate … and a very important vehicle for us. I met with Minister Carr from Australia two weeks ago here talking about the importance of the Caprice for us going forward.

“We’re monitoring the number of Caprices [we import]. We want to keep the nameplate in the market. We don’t think that the Australian dollar is going to continue at its record strength and when it comes down we can look to export more vehicles out of Holden and into the Middle East.”

The head of General Motors International Operations Tim Lee added: “Exports from Australia have really been a key piece of our portfolio here in the Middle East for a long time [since the VT Commodore in the late 1990s].

“The fundamental problem we have is your currency has strengthened to the extent that it makes the export of the vehicle far less economic. I didn’t say we’re losing money but you tell me what the Aussie dollar is going to do and we’ll tell you how many Caprices we’ll sell.”

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Here's more figures I pulled out of my ....

you are pulling something
holden export 7,817 units..

[351@GT]

Nz & Sa??

[burnz]

middle east is a larger market than new zealand, actually twice the size.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by burnz

fords losses arnt any better..from 2005.

and both ford holden are sell 2011 plate for around the same price..

I just pointed out Fords losses are less than half of what Holdens are since 2005.

But yes, a loss is a loss, and both are in trouble.

At least Ford have rightsized their production, Holden are still pumping out thousands of cars they carn't sell. Have they learnt nothing?

[gtxb67]

can someone please explain the benefits of exporting - to america at least
from my understanding the gto was based on the cv8
the cv8 sold for around $60,000 here
the gto sold for around $30,000 in the states. taking into account that our dollar was worth 80 cents us, that means that effectively they were selling for $36,000 in the states and $60,000 here
that is $24,000 less even without taking into account the boat trip or the new bonnet, grille etc. that each cost around $1,000,000 to make from scratch

am i missing something here or did holden lose mega dollars on every car that went to amercia

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

am i missing something here or did holden lose mega dollars on every car that went to amercia

no you are not missing something.

also, in fairness to holden, they invested $1 billion on VE. no one can predict the future and unfortunately the stock market crashed and also large cars have tanked. hardly their fault. its just poor timing.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by prydey

no you are not missing something.

also, in fairness to holden, they invested $1 billion on VE. no one can predict the future and unfortunately the stock market crashed and also large cars have tanked. hardly their fault. its just poor timing.

it seems to me, that they need to export, because they are building too many cars
from my limited knowledge, it seems that they locked their suppliers into a small(ish) fee on the basis that they would use "x" amount. (once again, to my understanding) if they no longer order "x" amount from their suppliers they get fined massively, so to some extent, the cars must be built whether they are getting sold or not
instead of having a whole heap of cars sitting in their lot doing nothing, they off load them to america to at least help out their owners. this way, they don't get fined, and their owners do not have to build as many cars, so while they take a hit, their owners win from it

i guess it means nothing in some respects if their owners are happy, but it makes a mockery of their "pretending" to be australian and as a ford fan, it gets a little annoying hearing holden fans gloating about exporting and doing well, when in reality it is stopping them from going bankrupt. the perception most sheep have seems to be wrong yet again

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

you are pulling something
holden export 7,817 units..
.

OK, that's good, at least there's still some movement in exports...

middle east is a larger market than new zealand, actually twice the size

Burnzy, you are the eternal optimist, Middle East is going away from Holden Exports, that market simply hasn't recovered
and point of fact it's dying due to cancellation of Lumina in 2012, it's being replaced by Chevy Malibu from USA.
Caprice will continue but apparently, they only want about 2,000 of them...

South America collapsed overnight due to a ridiculous tax imposed there at short notice.


Do you have the shipping export figures for PPV to USA?
I'd be interested to see how many are in holding yards over there..

[Buntz]

It gets up my nose a bit too... that Holden fans walk around peacocking and wrapping on Ford, when their beloved Holden is pumping out tonnes of cars, selling a fair amount (over 40k units) and are on the verge of shutting up shop.