SCT Advisory

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by loony888

that may be so, but you're missing the point completely,
SCT have no right to render a product they have sold unusable. the product is completely dependent on the tuners ability to interface with their tuning software, SCT know this and do not care. regardless of their reasons, and i agree with SCT that they have a problem with illegal use, their way of dealing with that is inappropriate. they should be corresponding directly with the person or persons responsible, using the legal system and their contract to stop the actions they dispute.
It would seem they put in place a new product and a new distributor before this stunt in an effort to maintain the income stream but i'm guessing they didn't expect the backlash from customers.
i would be looking for a refund on the SCT product as it doesn't perform as advertised and buying something else, from another company


paul.

I am not missing the point at all. I understand perfectly well both the sequence of events that brought us here and concurrent ramifications of said events.

What some people on here are not understanding is that it is not just a case of cutting off 1 company, that cannot be done fairly. There are dealers that are involved in "RESETGATE" that need to be identified. SCT shut down Xcal1 operations effective immediatley, then extended a period of 90 days to ease the burden on innocent parties....... us and most tuners.

It will take some time for the guilty parties to be discovered, and only throught the co-operation of the fair and straight tuners will this happen. The sooner SCT isolate the bad apples in the basket, the sooner we can enjoy the fruits again.

The only bad thing I can see (and hey, I do not totally agree with it either), is the timefame that has been given for phaseout. I think 3 months is not enough, but once the issue is resolved, I can see it being extended out to 12 or maybe 18 months (with the innocent tuners only)

This phaseout happens in all walks of life........

Lead in petrol,
Analogue TV,
CDMA telephone coverage,
VHS and ughhhh, Beta.....

Need I go on?

All of the above examples require money to be input from the end user to continue some form of service. It's not like SCT have said, "we are pulling out of Australia, effective immediatley" is it?

Daniel

[Cam]

Originally Posted by jetute

I buy a new car becasue I want to or choose to, not because ford shut down my ecu and forced me to. there is a BIG difference.

Windows 95 still works on my old pc, it still does what it was designed and advertised to do..... microsoft did not flick a switch to turn it off when xp and vista came out. they no longer support it but hey, it still kicks along.

I think you kind of proved SCT's point, the Xcal1's can still be used, and generic "existing" tunes can be loaded, but they cannot be "upgraded"... a little bit like Windows 95...

In saying that, I do not agree with what SCT are doing, people buy their products to enable them to tune their car as it is further modified. I would really like to know the legality of them making such decisions, but thats another arguement.

[Justin@]

jetute
I believe you are right. There are certain people that stand to gain a lot by this, providing that we all do as they want us to. This isnt about stopping fraud as much as it is about getting their new product out to be sold.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

I buy a new car becasue I want to or choose to, not because ford shut down my ecu and forced me to. there is a BIG difference.

Windows 95 still works on my old pc, it still does what it was designed and advertised to do..... microsoft did not flick a switch to turn it off when xp and vista came out. they no longer support it but hey, it still kicks along.


no matter what excuse they come up with, its wronng!!!!!!!!!!!! and no1 should have to trade anything in to get the latest version as the original still works fine.

if everyon traded in their old box for a new one...a new one is (just a guess) $700. Now you may get $100 trade for your old box.... the new one cost the dealer $350 (just a guess).

so you can see.... only the end user loses out for the actions of one local dealer. whose making money and whose losing it? dealers make money, sct makes money. what do you do? you fork it out

but i tell you what, you give them your perfectly operating box for free and take the said $100 trade.... if you think your actually gettting something for that box, your dreaming... they are getting your box for free.

no point treating this box like its a car... it is not!!

I am not even going to chop that up and shoot it apart...... just re-read my post (especially the highlighted bit in the middle about the car example) and think about it again.

Your box will not stop working.......... plan ahead, THEN plan to update. If you do not prepare yourself, only then you will get left in the dark.

Daniel

[mrbaxr6t]

ALRIGHT THEN

SCT if your beef is with the distributor, launch a class action against them on behalf of YOUR customers, send the distributor straight to bankruptcy use our ill feelings as leverage to tear the distributor. Here if you stick your neck out for the little guy you will be adored till the end of time, doing what you have done causes the latter effect as you are seeing.

Sorry for disappearing, I had to go to WORK, 14 hrs straight, wonder why..........

[jetute]

Originally Posted by CAT600

I am not even going to chop that up and shoot it apart...... just re-read my post (especially the highlighted bit in the middle about the car example) and think about it again.

Your box will not stop working.......... plan ahead, THEN plan to update. If you do not prepare yourself, only then you will get left in the dark.

Daniel

at the end of the day 90 days is not sufficient, and it aint good enough giving 90 days to plan what I want to do to my car... I want to be able to do what I want when I want. be it in 30 days or 300 days. so yes the box will stop working in a manner that it was advertised... as I wont be able to retune or swap the box between the 2 cars that I have in my yard.

[ratter]

I have just got off the phone from Rob Herrod.

He has confirmed my earlier post is factual of his involvement in this.

As he is now the Australian Distribtuor for their product, he is in negotiations with SCT to attempt to get the problem totally sorted out, a problem that he had nothing to do with.

He has also told me, he will offer a buy back of old boxes if people are forced to replace their boxes, this buy back will be coming from his side only and I told him it would be good if SCT could come to the party and help out as well.

Rob is hesitant to come online at the momment, as he will be swamped with questions and accusations and he considers it more important to try to rectify the situation rather than defend it. I'm sure he will be on when the final outcome is known.




As a tuner, I make very little on the sale of a flashbox, which is why I do not keep them in stock anymore, I order them as I need them or based on customers leaving a deposit.
I have bought flash boxes in the past, only to find them selling cheaper elsewhere.

[EGOXRT]

Charlie
Stop treating people with utter contempt. Your replies show the typical stand over tactics a company with a stranglehold on the market has. What are you really telling the consumer here, all i can make from this is, we are a in the ocean to your bottom line and you want to show us all what the consequences are for a dealers actions. Very nice strategy you are using, trying to use the consumer to bring down the distributor at hand, this might work over in the USA our culture is very different.

Had SCT been more forthright and told consumers the real events behind this move and your intentions, things would have moved much more favourably on your behalf.
Honesty goes a long way in this country, we are a lot harder to pull the wool over than your folk.

I believe you have just generated a new opportunity for software hackers and another problems for yourselves. Remember this, it was your company that made a vulnerable product in the first place and now we must suffer because of this? Have a look around at the current economic status of the world, do you think this is a wise way of releasing a new product, i think not.

Good luck with you endeavours, i don't think they will get you very far in this country or the current economic status.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jetute

at the end of the day 90 days is not sufficient, and it aint good enough giving 90 days to plan what I want to do to my car... I want to be able to do what I want when I want. be it in 30 days or 300 days. so yes the box will stop working in a manner that it was advertised... as I wont be able to retune or swap the box between the 2 cars that I have in my yard.

You can.... the world wont end in 90 days, nor will your X1 stop working...
If you want to keep modifying your tune after 90 days just find someone with V2.9 software...
As Daniel says, I think too many people are not thinking clearly about this.

[bloggs24]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You can.... the world wont end in 90 days, nor will your X1 stop working...
If you want to keep modifying your tune after 90 days just find someone with V2.9 software...
As Daniel says, I think too many people are not thinking clearly about this.

We shouldnt have to find someone with V2.9, this is not a solution either.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by bloggs24

We shouldnt have to find someone with V2.9, this is not a solution either.

True, but hey, you might have to, its not the end of the world, but it is a solution....

[SpoolMan]

The thread is bordering on the ridiculous, i understand venting but not 6 times per member in the one thread.

Makes it hard for others to sift through the foot stamping and find the actual information from those involved.

Information only, no more rants or 24 hour holiday..

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You can.... the world wont end in 90 days, nor will your X1 stop working...
If you want to keep modifying your tune after 90 days just find someone with V2.9 software...
As Daniel says, I think too many people are not thinking clearly about this.

Not that simple, if Jetute is a loyal customer to AAA Tuning and thay have updated software and no longer have V2.9 software.

Why should SCT's decitions make Jetute change tune shops unless he upgrades to XcalII or III?

And inturn cost another SCT Customer in the tune shop itself more work by punishing them for upgrading to SCT's latest software, which cost them more $$$ in the first place?

It's our choice to choose where we have our tunes done, and we shouldn't be forced to change due only some of our selected SCT Tuners having old and new software.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Not that simple, if Jetute is a loyal customer to AAA Tuning and thay have updated software and no longer have V2.9 software.

Why should SCT's decitions make Jetute change tune shops unless he upgrades to XcalII or III?

And inturn cost another SCT Customer in the tune shop itself more work by punishing them for upgrading to SCT's latest software, which cost them more $$$ in the first place?

It's our choice to choose where we have our tunes done, and we shouldn't be forced to change due only some of our selected SCT Tuners having old and new software.

Im not saying its ideal, but its a solution... just trying to put some perspective to this, i understand people are upset at "face value" but when you think it through even if they don't relent its not the end of the world, people can still change their tunes.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

....be it in 30 days or 300 days. so yes the box will stop working in a manner that it was advertised... as I wont be able to retune or swap the box between the 2 cars that I have in my yard.....

What about 3000 days? will that be enough?

This will go around in circles, re-read this:

Originally Posted by CAT600

This phaseout happens in all walks of life........

Lead in petrol,
Analogue TV,
CDMA telephone coverage,
VHS and ughhhh, Beta.....

Need I go on?

I don't need to but I will:

LIFE........ Are you dark on GOD (or angry at subatomic particles prior to the big bang if you subscribe to athiesm) for making your life finite?

People have to get over this and put some faith in a mutual trust bewteen us and SCT.

Capitalism is ugly, but it relies on co-existance between buyer and seller. SCT will not screw people over, because people vote with their wallets.

The best thing you can do is prepare yourself.

Daniel

[Walkinshaw]

Heres the next point to remember. SCT has not touched your Xcal1 boxes at all. The boxes them selves have all of the functionality they were sold with. In 91 days they can still recieve custom tuning.

What has been altered is the tuners software. Legaly SCT have not touched the functionality of the product you purchased, it would then apear no breach of trade practices has happened with regards to the actual Xcal1 boxes.

The tuning software on the other hand........

As I noted above, it would apear that it's the tuners who will get burnt here!

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jetute

Windows 95 still works on my old pc, it still does what it was designed and advertised to do..... microsoft did not flick a switch to turn it off when xp and vista came out. they no longer support it but hey, it still kicks along.

...and i gather this is what SCT are doing, is it not? A person has bought the product, that can be used, just not updated?

Also, with all software, you don't actually own it, you buy a license to use the software....

I own a ps1, i cant buy new games for it, does this mean i shouldn't buy another playstation?

[jetute]

nikked.... you are missing my point.... 95 still works as advertised, as does your ps1.... xcal1 does not.

if you were here in 2005 when it came out and listened to what sct had to say at the time, you would know what I mean. Might pay to check that out.

just because it operates, does not mean it works as advertised by sct..... actually far from it after they stop it in 90 days

[MGR]

Tuners should grab a copy of Norton Ghost or some other system recovery tool.

Create a backup image of their hard drive.

When the 90 day limit runs out, reset the BIOS clock on the mainboard back 90 days and restore the ghost image to the HDD.

The software will work for another 90 days.

Bit of a pain in the backside but once you have the HDD image then you only have to restore once every three months.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jetute

nikked.... you are missing my point.... 95 still works as advertised, as does your ps1.... xcal1 does not.

if you were here in 2005 when it came out and listened to what sct had to say at the time, you would know what I mean. Might pay to check that out.

just because it operates, does not mean it works as advertised by sct..... actually far from it after they stop it in 90 days

I think you're blowing this out of proportion..
SCT did not sell you the box.
Your car won't come to a grinding halt on the side of the road in 90 days, like W95 it will still continue to function exactly the same, it will still receive software updates, the only clincher as it sits now is your tuner will need the older V2.9 software IF you need to tune it....
My bet is this software will become more common too.... im sure every tuner had/has it....

[Mr. CVE]

One thing concerns me, is after a few months, when this has blown over there will be Xcal 1 boxes for sale on the 2nd hand market.
Now those boxes will only be good for the car it was tuned on, or an identical combo and car.
If the new car is any different ( diff ratio, injector size etc ) it can't be changed EVER AGAIN.

Or another scenario, you have spent $500-1000 on a custom tune for your big banger at your preffered tuner, the car is fantastic, pushing out big power, however you decide to change the diff ratio, or injectors. For your expert tuner, that is no big deal, but as your box is now 'sealed' it can't be done.

Not saying SCT is but some USA people have the attitude of 'dumb aussies' so we definately have to prove this stereotype wrong and be proffesional in what happens next.

I feel sorry for the tuners, because at sometime their loyal customers will return for a upgrade in their tune and they will have the hard task of telling them they can't. How that will go down, I am not sure, won't be good.

Good luck to all involved.

[loony888]

Originally Posted by CAT600

I am not even going to chop that up and shoot it apart...... just re-read my post (especially the highlighted bit in the middle about the car example) and think about it again.

Your box will not stop working.......... plan ahead, THEN plan to update. If you do not prepare yourself, only then you will get left in the dark.

Daniel

you cannot be serious! plan ahead? how do you expect people to plan for a supplier to render the product they paid good money for with an expectation that it will work "as advertised" to forsee it being disabled?
sure, expect that technology grows old, expect that companies will not support old, out of date technology forever, especially after new releases, that's totally reasonable, time marches on. this is a completely different situation, if you do understand the point of the thread how can you say that?

paul.

[jetute]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think you're blowing this out of proportion..
SCT did not sell you the box.
Your car won't come to a grinding halt on the side of the road in 90 days, like W95 it will still continue to function exactly the same, it will still receive software updates, the only clincher as it sits now is your tuner will need the older V2.9 software IF you need to tune it....
My bet is this software will become more common too.... im sure every tuner had/has it....

no my car wont come to a grinding halt.


none the less I paid $1280 after sct advertised what this magic box does etc etc.

It will now not do what was advertised after 90. thats my point.

thats not blowing it out of proportion.

if it is tell me how.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jetute

no my car wont come to a grinding halt.


none the less I paid $1280 after sct advertised what this magic box does etc etc.

It will now not do what was advertised after 90. thats my point.

thats not blowing it out of proportion.

if it is tell me how.

The box will continue to do exactly what its been advertised it will do after 90 days!!! It won't loose its tune, nor will your car come to a grinding halt.. in fact you will still be able to upload custom tunes to it after 90 days! the ONLY thing i can work out that you will need is some older software to enable the tune to load, apart from that its business as usual? have i missed anything in this??

[Sledgehammer]

I would imagine that action could be commenced against the dealer that the product was purchased from under the Trade Practices Act 1974

This would be handled by the Federal Court....can someone say class action please...

Federal Magistrates Court of Australia

Consumer Protection and Trade Practices
The Court has jurisdiction under the Trade Practices Act 1974 with respect to claims under the following sections:

Section 46 – Misuse of market power (except applications by the Minister)

Part IVA – Unconscionable conduct

Part IVB – Breach of industry codes

Part V - Consumer protection

~ Division 1 – Unfair practices, including 'misleading and deceptive' conduct

~ 1AAA – Pyramid selling schemes

~ 1A – Product safety and product information, and

~ 2A – Actions against manufacturers and importers of goods, and

Part VA – Liability of manufacturers and importers of defective goods.

The Court can provide injunctive relief under Section 80 and award damages under Section 82 of the Trade Practices Act 1974 up to $750,000.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by loony888

you cannot be serious! plan ahead? how do you expect people to plan for a supplier to render the product they paid good money for with an expectation that it will work "as advertised" to forsee it being disabled?
sure, expect that technology grows old, expect that companies will not support old, out of date technology forever, especially after new releases, that's totally reasonable, time marches on. this is a completely different situation, if you do understand the point of the thread how can you say that?

paul.

Read post 203.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

post deleted, user banned for 24 hours

Very mature

Daniel

[jetute]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The box will continue to do exactly what its been advertised it will do after 90 days!!! It won't loose its tune, nor will your car come to a grinding halt.. in fact you will still be able to upload custom tunes to it after 90 days! the ONLY thing i can work out that you will need is some older software to enable the tune to load, apart from that its business as usual? have i missed anything in this??

and what about my ability to change between my casr that I have in my yard?? I paid for that right when I bought my box. I paid for the right to use tuner of my choice, and this has now been taken away.

and most have already updated. as they are on auto updates.. and as "sct fliicked the switch" so to speak, they screwded the customer over at the same time. They did not warn anyone b4 they did it.

[data_mine]

Kudos to Mark and any other admin/mod that's let this thread run, while keeping it somewhat sane. I think it's important this be here.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

r as it sits now is your tuner will need the older V2.9 software IF you need to tune it....

But V2.9 is no good for BFII ot later.

I happen to own an Xcal 1 box ( purchased less than 1 year ago) which I am using on a Jun '07 BFII. V2.9 will be no good for my tuning needs regardless.