Are We Being Too Harsh And Critial Of Ford Australia

[SteveJH]

It doesnt flow with the rest of their lineup though, the way I suggest does. A 'Titanium' no matter the engine would be instantly recognisable as the top of the range model, with a E6, G6...it could mean anything.

When i talk about an 'ecoboost' or 'ecoLPI' badge, i'm suggesting that if such a badge was used, it would be a small badge underneath the 'trim' badge, it would not be part of the car model/specification name.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

It doesnt flow with the rest of their lineup though, the way I suggest does. A 'Titanium' no matter the engine would be instantly recognisable as the top of the range model, with a E6, G6...it could mean anything.

When i talk about an 'ecoboost' or 'ecoLPI' badge, i'm suggesting that if such a badge was used, it would be a small badge underneath the 'trim' badge, it would not be part of the car model/specification name.

Everyone quotes the badge names.

G = Base models.
E = Luxury models.
XR = Sports models

4, 6, 8 = Cylinders.

T = Turbo.

It's as simple as ABC, 123.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Everyone quotes the badge names.

Do you mind not speaking for me............

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

And you think having a titanium option would be expensive??

XT
Zetec (G6 spec equiv, either I4t or I6).
Titanium (G6E spec equiv, either I4t, I6 or I6t)

Offer S (sports) pack with the above which would give XR side skirts & spoiler with the normal front for the model.

XR6 (with the turbo only)
XR8 (N/A Coyote)

XT &/or Zetec with the S pack would replace the N/A XR6.

Zetec... are you nuts

Why would you give the Falcon the name of an old Focus engine/model

[2011G6E]

I've given up and just started saying "we own a Fairmont" when people ask me what we drive...I got sick of the blank looks when I simply say "we drive a G6E"...the usual response is "what's that then..?". You say "Fairmont" and immediately they know where it stands in the lineup...even non-Ford people know the name.

It's pointless trying to be all trendy and European about giving a car a couple of numbers and letters to identify it. The makers who do this have always done it...Mazda, BMW, Mercedes...and people already know what they mean.

It's very hard to completely rebrand something and expect the public to automatically know what you are on about...

Size is another thing...when we took our G6E in for it's first service, they loaned us a Mondeo automatic turbo diesel...and in all honestly, if we'd test driven one of them before the Falcon, I suspect we'd have one in the driveway now instead of the Falcon. It's just too close in interior space, and the Falcon can't beat the economy of the TD motor which is a pearler.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I've given up and just started saying "we own a Fairmont" when people ask me what we drive...I got sick of the blank looks when I simply say "we drive a G6E"...the usual response is "what's that then..?". You say "Fairmont" and immediately they know where it stands in the lineup...even non-Ford people know the name.

It's pointless trying to be all trendy and European about giving a car a couple of numbers and letters to identify it. The makers who do this have always done it...Mazda, BMW, Mercedes...and people already know what they mean.

It's very hard to completely rebrand something and expect the public to automatically know what you are on about...

Size is another thing...when we took our G6E in for it's first service, they loaned us a Mondeo automatic turbo diesel...and in all honestly, if we'd test driven one of them before the Falcon, I suspect we'd have one in the driveway now instead of the Falcon. It's just too close in interior space, and the Falcon can't beat the economy of the TD motor which is a pearler.

Mmmm. Falcon needs work, really need to separate itself from Mondeo. It's not easy trying to fight in a market, fighting in your own brand is worse though.

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Do you mind not speaking for me............

So sorry.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

So sorry.

Thank you, apology accepted.....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Thank you, apology accepted.....

HA!

[svo supporter]

Start throwing all these different numbers, letters etc for trim/engine configuation levels, you'll end up back round the 70's, where the option game was ripe.

We all know what happened after that. Every poor bugger was so confused, they didn't know whether they had a small 6 cyl, with carpet or a whopping big V8 with vinyl floor coverings.

Apply the KISS system and surely it's save headaches when it comes to buying a car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

XR6 is awesome. It has everything you'd need. Don't be a tool Damo.

LOL, yeah so awesome that when I went to open the bonnet on a new XR6 Falcon in the dealership, the latch snapped off in my hand.

Not only do they have fit and finish issues, everything in the interior is low quality.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not only do they have fit and finish issues, everything in the interior is low quality.

This is true. Falcons have always have had lacklustre build quality. The interior quality in my Falcon isn't great in comparison to Aurions and Camrys I have been in. All the trim around the rear window is flimsy and falling apart, despite the car being garaged all it's life in a cool climate. The newer B-series and FGs are even worse. BUT despite that, no Magna or Camry could ever match the Falcon for ride comfort, smoothness and solid road stance.

[jpd80]

This is also why i believe that building Mondeo locally would help to better align
Falcon trim and equipment levels to more like those expected on international cars.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

XR6 is awesome. It has everything you'd need. Don't be a tool Damo.

Hahahahaha awesome, your funny.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

LOL, yeah so awesome that when I went to open the bonnet on a new XR6 Falcon in the dealership, the latch snapped off in my hand.

Not only do they have fit and finish issues, everything in the interior is low quality.

Yeah but at least in 5 years time it won`t be one of those four cylinders blowing smoke that I always end up sitting behind in traffic.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by stang65

Yeah but at least in 5 years time it won`t be one of those four cylinders blowing smoke that I always end up sitting behind in traffic.

At least it just blows smoke, not head gaskets right?

Yes, I know that issue was fixed when the AU came out, but he also took a generalisation.

I've got two neglected 4 cylinder cars right here at home, and none of them have had any expensive engine issues in the 12 and 8 years we've owned them.

[stang65]

Pffft , i had my ED Falcon for 8 years never missed a beat. never a blew a head gasket. To blow a head gasket you either sit in peak hour traffic with the aircon on on a 40 degree day or you don`t maintain your hoses.

Any of the inline 6 engines will be around long after the four is dead and buried. The fact that they use them for Taxi`s shows how bullet proof they are. you save fuel with a four cylinder but you pay that back in repairs.

Don`t look at the fact it`s new lets look at it when it has 150,000 k`s on it.
In saying that I understand your happy with your car, I almost bought one as a cheap run about, but in my opinion it just isn`t a family car and can`t compete in alot of areas.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by stang65

Pffft , i had my ED Falcon for 8 years never missed a beat. never a blew a head gasket. To blow a head gasket you either sit in peak hour traffic with the aircon on on a 40 degree day or you don`t maintain your hoses.

Any of the inline 6 engines will be around long after the four is dead and buried. The fact that they use them for Taxi`s shows how bullet proof they are. you save fuel with a four cylinder but you pay that back in repairs.

Don`t look at the fact it`s new lets look at it when it has 150,000 k`s on it.
In saying that I understand your happy with your car, I almost bought one as a cheap run about, but in my opinion it just isn`t a family car and can`t compete in alot of areas.

We've had an XE and an EA Falcon, they both ended up in the scrap heap, BOTH of their engines where dead with less than 300,000km on the clock. The EA got replaced with a Mazda 323 which has been faultless to this day and it hasn't had a nice life.

Our cars have 275,000 and 245,000 on them at the moment with no major repairs to either.

The last time I got in a Falcon Taxi it was making squeaking and grinding noises, smelt like vomit and was falling apart. The only reason they use Falcons is because they can pick them up very cheap at auctions, if the Falcon was so awesome as a Taxi, why are there a LOT of Civic Hybrids and Prius' getting around in yellow now?

We can fit our family comfortably in my Focus, Mum's Festiva or Dad's 323 without issue. Its not uncomfortable for 4 people.

I'd put money on my diesel 4 cylinder engine outlasting your ED I6 any day. Also have two workmates, one with an early 90s Subaru Liberty and the other a 1990 Honda Integra, both on original engines and both over 500,000km.

[Polyal]

LOL so many incorrect stereotypes going on here. Running costs are basically the biggest factor in cabs...so would you buy a taxi thats inefficient to run? Taxis are tools of the trade and they are treated like so.

But hey, maybe people should go over to Europe and tell BMW, Merc et al that its not good for their image. Its a rubbish excuse.

[stang65]

Wow 275,000 k`s whoopees there 6 cylinder falcons that have had over 800,000 clocked on them. Anyway were going to far off topic enjoy.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

We've had an XE and an EA Falcon, they both ended up in the scrap heap, BOTH of their engines where dead with less than 300,000km on the clock. The EA got replaced with a Mazda 323 which has been faultless to this day and it hasn't had a nice life.

Our Mazda 323 carked it at 175,000 with a transmission that turned into mechanno, 2 head gaskets and the 1.6 eventually seized up. My old EA was still running like a Swiss watch with 308,000 on the clock.

We can fit our family comfortably in my Focus, Mum's Festiva or Dad's 323 without issue. Its not uncomfortable for 4 people.

I'd find it hard to fit myself into a Festiva let alone 4 people. Imagine doing a Melbourne to Sydney run in a Festiva!

I'd put money on my diesel 4 cylinder engine outlasting your ED I6 any day.

When you get to work rebuilding that I6 you will change your mind, Damo.

[kpcart]

my answer to the thread question, are we being too harsh and critical of ford australia:
in my oppinion no, but we as a community are buying the low number of fords we are buying because of fords crap marketing and image. holden has a better image and marketing, and as such "we - the masses" are buying more commodores then stodgy image falcons. the falcon may be slightly better, but the masses buying the cars dont know the technicalities of what they are buying, they buy what comes across as a better buy, and with the marketing, holdens seem a better buy then fords to the majority of new car buyers. i think a lot of people know that the holden drivetrian isnt as good as the falcons, but it is more then good enough, and is accompanied by a bloody good looking body that ford couldnt beat or even match.

[2011G6E]

To the original question:

Sometimes they deserve it. I work with a guy who owns a G6E turbo, and after we bought our G6E, he paused and said "what do you think of some of the interior details...?", and only having had the car for a couple of days, I said "Well they look great, why?", and he cryptically said "Get back to me in a week".

I worked with him a week or two later, and we got to chatting about our cars. I knew what he meant.
For a $50,000+ car, there are a lot of things inside that just wouldn't cut it in a $18,000 Corolla. Passenger handles above the doors just "clack" back into place with no soft-return (but oddly the glovebox has one), the center console lid just slams back down with a bang with no padding or soft close. The gearshift lockout lever on the 6 speed box just feels "plasticky", and almost feels like you may be about to break it if you don't squeeze it into place gently, the sun visors don't seem to stay down without drooping...little stuff like that, but they are details people notice...expecially when you've paid a large premium for a near-top of the line car.
As for under the bonnet, I've mentioned Fords sterling decision to save a couple of bucks per car by not painting the bare iron engine blocks anymore, resulting in ugly surface-rusted engines in what is otherwise a pretty neat and tidy underbonnet. I know a lot of people don't bother to look under the hood, but a lot of us like a nice clean engine bay...

Ford needs to remember that not everyone is totally, absolutely, one-eyed brand loyal, not like they used to be some time back. There's just too many good contenders on the market just waiting to take a sale from Ford with sharp pricing and good value for money...and yes, little details that make all the difference to the driving experience.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

We've had an XE and an EA Falcon, they both ended up in the scrap heap, BOTH of their engines where dead with less than 300,000km on the clock. The EA got replaced with a Mazda 323 which has been faultless to this day and it hasn't had a nice life.

Our cars have 275,000 and 245,000 on them at the moment with no major repairs to either.

The last time I got in a Falcon Taxi it was making squeaking and grinding noises, smelt like vomit and was falling apart. The only reason they use Falcons is because they can pick them up very cheap at auctions, if the Falcon was so awesome as a Taxi, why are there a LOT of Civic Hybrids and Prius' getting around in yellow now?

We can fit our family comfortably in my Focus, Mum's Festiva or Dad's 323 without issue. Its not uncomfortable for 4 people.

I'd put money on my diesel 4 cylinder engine outlasting your ED I6 any day. Also have two workmates, one with an early 90s Subaru Liberty and the other a 1990 Honda Integra, both on original engines and both over 500,000km.

that was had an ED Falcon, Have had my trouble free XR6 turbo for the past 7 years, the Ed was purring like a kittty when i sold it. Just thought i would correct that little bit.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by kpcart

my answer to the thread question, are we being too harsh and critical of ford australia:
in my oppinion no, but we as a community are buying the low number of fords we are buying because of fords crap marketing and image. holden has a better image and marketing, and as such "we - the masses" are buying more commodores then stodgy image falcons. the falcon may be slightly better, but the masses buying the cars dont know the technicalities of what they are buying, they buy what comes across as a better buy, and with the marketing, holdens seem a better buy then fords to the majority of new car buyers. i think a lot of people know that the holden drivetrian isnt as good as the falcons, but it is more then good enough, and is accompanied by a bloody good looking body that ford couldnt beat or even match.

I think the FG is one of the nicest looking shapes there's been out of the falcon commodore. I don't think the look is an issue at all but more so the great marketing Holden have had for quite a number of years now. Ford are getting a lot better but still need to find a campain that grabs and sticks with consumers.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Grunter

I think the FG is one of the nicest looking shapes there's been out of the falcon commodore. I don't think the look is an issue at all but more so the great marketing Holden have had for quite a number of years now. Ford are getting a lot better but still need to find a campain that grabs and sticks with consumers.

I agree. The FG shape is really sleek. The problem is not the shape. It is the marketing and customer service which has really lacked.

Right now, Ford are at a low with locally built vehicles from a sales point of view. It is at it's worst right now. This will get better with SZ Territory sales having a full month in June. EcoLPi in Q3. FG2 in Q3/Q4. Possibly XR8 with FG2. EcoBoost FG2 in January 2012.

Then the imported T6 Ranger in Q3/4. EcoBoost Mondeo in Q2/Q3. Gen3 Focus in Q3/Q4.

Only Transit will not receive an update AFAIK. That is the 85% new or substantially renewed in 2011 that Ford has promised.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Our Mazda 323 carked it at 175,000 with a transmission that turned into mechanno, 2 head gaskets and the 1.6 eventually seized up. My old EA was still running like a Swiss watch with 308,000 on the clock.



I'd find it hard to fit myself into a Festiva let alone 4 people. Imagine doing a Melbourne to Sydney run in a Festiva!



When you get to work rebuilding that I6 you will change your mind, Damo.

Well there you go, different experiences all around.

And yes, I still haven't pulled it down.

[SteveJH]

EL GLi.

Parents got it with ~40,000 on the clock. I've been driving it the last few years. From memory.

- Autotransmission
- About 4 exhausts?
- Oil switch of some kind (started spewing oil out the back of the car all over the grand parents caravan at 6am on the way back from bathhurst)
- Head gasket

There is more but those are the ones I can think of straight away. Ticked over 238,000km on the weekend, now halfway to 239,000.....

[08ESE]

got one in the driveway here (el), 289 thou kays, been treated like ****, runs like a clock. seen many a taxi with around a million kays still going.


personally, ford is killing the falcon, no adds, no updates, they give no **** for it, someone at the blue oval wants it gone, and sadly, thats the way its going. the falcon is the LAST thing on fords mind, they are behind every other car they sell here with adds, updates etc.... seems they have thrown the towel into holden on the large sedan market, and will take the fight to them in every other segment.

ford wants taurus all over the world, falcon was in its way.....


was, its not any more.



( i hope im wrong, but im pretty sure im not )

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kpcart

my answer to the thread question, are we being too harsh and critical of ford australia:
in my oppinion no, but we as a community are buying the low number of fords we are buying because of fords crap marketing and image. holden has a better image and marketing, and as such "we - the masses" are buying more commodores then stodgy image falcons. the falcon may be slightly better, but the masses buying the cars dont know the technicalities of what they are buying, they buy what comes across as a better buy, and with the marketing, holdens seem a better buy then fords to the majority of new car buyers. i think a lot of people know that the holden drivetrian isnt as good as the falcons, but it is more then good enough, and is accompanied by a bloody good looking body that ford couldnt beat or even match.

It is true that Commodore is outselling Falcon by a wide margin, I think it has less to do
with private buyers and more to do with a shift in preference by fleet buyers unable
to get LPG Falcons and wagons, that just sends those buyers off to other products.
If indeed LPG engines should be making up a third or quarter of all sales then that is
a huge implied uptick in sales of between 30 to 50% of current production and would
suggest that the current 1800 (or less) sales should be 2400-2700 with LPG sedans.

You know what?
We'll know soon enough if Ford's belief in LPG is right or not, if those sales come back
then I think the case for another RWD Falcon strengthens but if those sales are indifferent
then I think Ford has to seriously revisit its business plan for a future Falcon but that doesn't
mean another Falcon won't happen, probably more like a big rethink of what's in and what's out.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It is true that Commodore is outselling Falcon by a wide margin, I think it has less to do
with private buyers and more to do with a shift in preference by fleet buyers unable
to get LPG Falcons and wagons, that just sends those buyers off to other products.
If indeed LPG engines should be making up a third or quarter of all sales then that is
a huge implied uptick in sales of between 30 to 50% of current production and would
suggest that the current 1800 (or less) sales should be 2400-2700 with LPG sedans.

You know what?
We'll know soon enough if Ford's belief in LPG is right or not, if those sales come back
then I think the case for another RWD Falcon strengthens but if those sales are indifferent
then I think Ford has to seriously revisit its business plan for a future Falcon but that doesn't
mean another Falcon won't happen, probably more like a big rethink of what's in and what's out.

Commodore has caned the Falcon in sales for years with or without LPG.

Ford have given up on Falcon. Deal has already been done. Why market and advertise something that's on the way out? They are getting us ready for its departure. Now, I hope I'm horribly wrong but I don't think so.