2015 Ford Everest

[Tezza]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Diesels don't stack up financially in terms of WOL costs (of which fuel cost is only a small propertion). Ford used this argument for ages when trying the resist putting diesel in Territory but unfortunately the market thought only of fuel costs/range.

You have to own the vehicle for quite a few years to amortise the additional costs (upfront and ongoing) of diesel. If, for example, you compare the WOL costs of a diesel vs petrol Territory TX using the NRMA/RAC operating costs calaculator (which includes every input - service costs, depreciation etc etc), the diesel costs $43 a week in fuel compared to the petrol at $53 a week (using fuel prices prevailing at the time of survey), but the whole of life operating costs for both are the same at $251 a week.

I've searched other models in the past where the WOL costs for the petrol version is cheaper than the diesel version.

I'm impressed by modern diesel engines, but modern petrol engines have almost closed the gap on fuel economy and you don't get that rattle which I don't like. The feds greenhouse guide also shows better air pollution ratings for the petrol versions. Diesel has its roles, like that torque, but for ordinary driving I'd go for petrol.

There are a few things that get overlooked by this type of view, and each to there own, as we don't all think alike, however for me, the followings points have some relevance.....

- if I have made a decision to purchase a new car, then if I pay $40k for the petrol or an extra $3k ($43k) for the diesel, is not going to have a huge impact on me, as it is a one off cost that will be forgotten about in a month.
- the extended range and greater economy per tank of the diesel is something I will notice every time I fill up for the life of the car. Once the price of petrol and diesel stabilise again (if you think petrol is always going to be this cheap, your kidding yourself) the extra savings per week will be appreciated as it effects me EVERY WEEK.
- if you take the petrol v diesel territory, max Torque arrives at 3250rpm, and max kW arrives over 5000rpm for the petrol meaning for 90% of the cars life, the wife never gets to explore the cars capabilities unless she gives it a hard time (which she is not going to do.) In the diesel, every time she takes off from the lights max torque is available from 1800rpm which is why the car feels so effortless to drive and why she loves it. It's why diesel cars are better, and why electric cars will rock in 30 years time as the technology improves, as they make max torque from idle. Have a read about the tesla if you want to see what the future holds.....

[CyberWasp]

I am getting under 8lt / per 100kms in my manual BT50 with the same engine as what the Everest has. When I fill up it has a range of over 1100kms on the dash.

My XR6T averages up around 13lt / per 100kms with a range of about less than half that.

Two very different animals but both give you a smile in different ways when you give it some go pedal.

[XR Martin]

Stop starting is a diesel engine's enemy, which is what 90% of them do these days.

Common sight when pulling an EGR valve on a city driven diesel engine.



Common sight when pulling a DPF filter on a city driven diesel

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Tezza

There are a few things that get overlooked by this type of view, and each to there own, as we don't all think alike, however for me, the followings points have some relevance.....

I agree each to their own. But I'm considering purchase of a European crossover that is virtually the same size as the Territory (but lighter due to some more design efficiency) and has better fuel economy with petrol than the diesel Territory.

Of course the diesel version of that vehicle has even better economy still, but not enough to drag me away from petrol. I found the performance of both the petrol and diesel in normal driving virtually identical. The NRMA operating costs guide again rates them as the same. That fuel saving doesn't save you much in the whole picture and you would struggle to recoup the additional original investment. You would want to prefer diesel for other reasons.

I've worked with electric transportation in another field - tell me about acceleration and all that fabulous torque from 0 km/h!

[simon varley]

I have been a massive diesel fan for years, but with the new GTDi engines many of their advantages are rapidly disappearing. Tezza's comparison of the Territory above is fair, but not something to get too fixated on when you put the ecoboost engine into that mix. Max torque on the 2.0 is available from 2000rpm

[Vesper Martini]

Excellent point Simon, one I was trying to make.
and I apologise for taking the thread into a diesel vs Petrol argument but I didn't start it
The Ecoboost will give you that low rev diesel like pulling power, as well as extra grunt when required. if only it was available in a car with a diesel comparison to look at economy figures see below
2.7V6 diesel ford Territory 140 kW 440 N·m
2.7V6 ecoboost ford F150 242 kW) @ 5750 rpm, 508 N·m) @ 3000 rpm

plus future emission requirements will kill all the economic benefit of a diesel

[simon varley]

I think it's a fair discussion point as the Everest will have both petrol and diesel (at least in some markets if not here)

consider Kuga:
2.0 ecoboost 178kW@5500rpm 345Nm from 2000-4500rpm 8.8l/100
2.0 duratorq 132kW@3500rpm 400Nm from 2000-2500rpm 5.5l/100

what the ecoboost looses out in max torque it more than makes up for in the usable rev range.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Stop starting is a diesel engine's enemy, which is what 90% of them do these days.

Common sight when pulling an EGR valve on a city driven diesel engine.

image

Common sight when pulling a DPF filter on a city driven diesel

image

Probably what mine looked like after we had it, plus add in the intake manifold and voila. POS. I did however put DPF cleaner and diesel cleaner through it on alternating fuel tanks in case.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by trublu

View these two links & eat humble pie!!!

http://youtu.be/0J0KcLrOjzk
http://youtu.be/8sIvuxW0OTs

Can't take those tug of war tests too seriously, I have seen the Amarok V Ranger one twice now, and the current results are a draw.

I'm a little surprised in the drag race since often hear the Ranger doing 10 seconds to 100kmh and the Amarok 11 seconds.
But I have found the Ranger auto sometimes holds gears a little to long with your foot on the floor, its probably quicker to change gears yourself. But I can't say I have done too many tests on drag racing the Ranger though.

As for Petrol in the Everest, it's probably a good idea, as someone pointed out the DPF likes to get clogged in city driving, which I am sure a high percentage of Everest's will spend most of their time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Your average American by the trailer load.

They're slowly starting to come around though, they've started getting some new small Euro diesels and now their entry level pickups are offering diesel options such as RAM 1500 and Nissan Titan.

I don't think id go back to petrol engines after having fun with diesels, wouldn't mind fiddling with an Ecoboost engine though.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Can't take those tug of war tests too seriously, I have seen the Amarok V Ranger one twice now, and the current results are a draw.

I'm a little surprised in the drag race since often hear the Ranger doing 10 seconds to 100kmh and the Amarok 11 seconds.
But I have found the Ranger auto sometimes holds gears a little to long with your foot on the floor, its probably quicker to change gears yourself. But I can't say I have done too many tests on drag racing the Ranger though.

As for Petrol in the Everest, it's probably a good idea, as someone pointed out the DPF likes to get clogged in city driving, which I am sure a high percentage of Everest's will spend most of their time.

I havnt driven the Amorak but in my experience holding your foot flat to the floor to max revs in the Ranger isnt benefitial to acceleration. You need to use the torque, its still a fairly old school diesel in the way it drives.
The Amorak probably works better treating it just like a petrol engine.

[Road_Warrior]

They said in the dirt drag race test that both of the cars were put in 4x4.

How is this possible with the Amarok seeing as all it has is permanent AWD with a very very low 1st gear, and a centre Torsen diff??

[Chopped]

lolol
I often wondered what we would prattle on about once the Falcon and Commodore performance wars are gone.

I see it's going to be diesel crew cab utes....

[Bearman]

I'll be very much looking forward to the Everest and the Edge being released.

It is apparent a medium SUV thingy will be in my driving future and it looks like the Edge will fit the bill.

The current Territory unfortunately won't get over the line as SWMBO reckons it's too big and I am not the slightest bit interested in the Kuga.

The Edge really represents my only chance of getting back into a Ford as a daily.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

They said in the dirt drag race test that both of the cars were put in 4x4.

How is this possible with the Amarok seeing as all it has is permanent AWD with a very very low 1st gear, and a centre Torsen diff??

Amarok has two different 4wd systems - only top of the range ultimate is permanent 4wd. Others are part time selectable 4wd or selectable 4motion in vw speak.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bearman

The current Territory unfortunately won't get over the line as SWMBO reckons it's too big and I am not the slightest bit interested in the Kuga.

The Edge is actually almost identical external dimensions to Territory, same wheelbase, about 8 cm shorter and about 3 cm wider and 3 cm taller. However, the internal dimensions are a little smaller. Like the Japanese SUVs, Captiva, Jeep etc., not clever use of space - big on the outside and small on the inside.

The Europeans and Australians are much smarter at getting maximum internal space out of a package. The Australians are going. That leaves ....

This factor and FWD knocks the Edge out of consideration for me. I think you should convince swimbo to take the Territory while it's still there, because it's a class act that won't be repeated by Ford.

Re Everest, I found this Ford ghost web page on the internet, not completed yet. Coming soon?

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA

[SumoDog68]

Diesel is more efficient design to start with , combined with forced induction it is better suited for heavy vehicle applications . Trucks and buses aside , 4wd vehicles that tow are mostly diesel powered - petrol ones double their fuel use under heavy load.
As for passenger cars including pretend 4wd (suv) diesel can be a less economical choice due to purchase cost and price of diesel in Australia - i generally drive both petrol and diesel versions of the car and buy what drives better. Some diesel cars (kia sportage comes to mind) drive a lot better with diesel option. I think if falcon was made available with diesel option it would sell in good numbers , especially as a wagon .

[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

9 posts defending the Prado. Well played.

Missed the other 4 mentioned? Don't you hate it went you quote someone but don't read their posts.

Everest will be good but it's got to beat the best and that includes non tangible things like reputation hassle free motoring all the time not just occasionally.


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[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by wranger

Looks like a praying mantis.



Judging by all the defensive posts mate I'm guessing you own a Prado?

Depends if you count the cars my business owns then yes, personally I always by Subaru. 15 years and still nothing but an oil change. Can't even claim that record from the toyotas I have but the best performer and worst repairer goes to the D4 HSE. The seven hilux's are all nudging 370k and look tired but haven't skipped a beat. But they are maintained properly and have had a few parts replaced (plastic water pumps and some brake cylinders).

Yea there is a new Prado in ther it replaced two CRD patrols. Again no trouble from them. The D4 has been replaced by a Tundra and it's awesome but hardly a quality car compared to say a 200.

Oh and there is 79 series in there two. By far the best of the lot for durability. Drives like **** but the perfect work platform on wheels.


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[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by velvet

Comparing it to non existent vehicles and a 200 which is in another price bracket all together. ($97, 096.21 for a Diesel GXL)

Good thing is they don't cost that to a company. Delete GST, take off fleet, gold and income tax and it's real cost is closer to $75k and then it's a drop in the ocean compared to other overheads like wages.

In my line of work a new car costs about $5 hour to own and run. Not much at all. You buy what you need.

Had a ford falcon once in 2003 as my work car and it had a major warranty repair every service. Cost 36k to buy. Sold it three years later for $8k. Nice.


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[XR Martin]

Of all the vehicles we run at work (over 500) Nissan has to take the cake as the least reliable of the lot. The GU Patrols are shocking and they've been building the stupid things for 17 years. Both the D22 and D40 Navaras arnt much better.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

Everest will be good but it's got to beat the best and that includes non tangible things like reputation hassle free motoring all the time not just occasionally.

back in 2006 when we started Ranger and had the goal of toppling the HiLux I thought we were dreaming. I knew we could take a good bite out of the sales, but I never thought we'd be on the point of overtaking. If the Ranger can do it to HiLux I'm confident the Everest can do the same to Prado.

[Ben73]

I have heard the 3.0L Nissan engines are far from the best. I know 6 people at work who have one. 4 have had problems costing thousands in repairs. 1 of those 4 needed a new engine at 220,000kms. I only remember that because he said he was considering putting a 6.5 chev in it.

[Ford Fox]

Spotted in Geelong today

[IMG][/IMG]

[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Of all the vehicles we run at work (over 500) Nissan has to take the cake as the least reliable of the lot. The GU Patrols are shocking and they've been building the stupid things for 17 years. Both the D22 and D40 Navaras arnt much better.

The CRD is ok, but we kept one D22 with 400k on it including the apprentice who drained the front diff and added 7L of oil on the old 9l and it coughed and died two weeks later. Air filter and intake covered in oil. Thought that was it but the mech. Just drained her and refilled both the diff and sump and she lives on today. Goes as good as the day it was bought.

The body and tray are shagged but the bits that spin seem completely in affected and will go on for another 400k I reckon.


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[Martyvan]

Interior images released, on a dealership page in Brisbane.... tapatalk not letting me search if they are elsewhere on the forum... they have 14 pictures on there.

[BSL73]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

Interior images released, on a dealership page in Brisbane.... tapatalk not letting me search if they are elsewhere on the forum... they have 14 pictures on there.

Have you got a URL for the photos?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by RaNgErBoY

Have you got a URL for the photos?

Page 1 of this thread has a few photos like the one above.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by RaNgErBoY

Have you got a URL for the photos?

Was on the Motorama Ford facebook page..... plenty of "official" pix

[paulb351]

A few more photos released, Everest Production version.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/341610/2...oduction-trim/

No interior shots so still haven't seen one without the cream colour.