Windsor vs Cleveland vs Boss

[ReVd_uP]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

the odd one out is the boss 302 because it doesnt weigh a metric arseload ;)

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry mate but it is correct, I was working on a D block cleveland today which was cast in nov 1969 (21L9 casting date), but the part revision code is as you say D0AE.
How on earth could the Clevelands fitted to the Feburary 1970 GT falcons have been designed, cast, assembled and shipped to Australia in 4 weeks??
There were quite a few batches of Clevelands cast in 1969, then stockpiled for fitment in 1970, ive seen cleveland blocks cast as early as july 1969.

A D block is a 1970 manufactured block A C block is 1960's.

Where's the 21L9 code, this does not appear to be a block date code? or corrolate?

Check your Ford info and you will see.


A = 1940
B = 1950
C = 1960
D = 1970


This is the official Ford numbering system, tell you what, call Ford in the states they still have all this info.

Date codes are pretty simple to work out, would you like the rest of the info as well re the other block number codes?

[Sledgehammer]

Actually this may be more polite,

So this is the breakdown.
Decade of Manufacture
A=1940
B=1950
C=1960
D=1970
E=1980
F=1990

The year of decade is simple the number represents the year so D9 =1979
The car line that is not really important to us for SVA information but may be of interest is made up as follows

A= Galaxie, D= Falcon, F= outside USA, G= Comet, J= Industrial, M=Mercury, O=Fairlane P= Autolite/Motorcraft, R=Rotunda, S= Thunderbird, T= Truck, V= Lincon, Z=Mustang.

The only Engineering departments of interest would be E=Engine Engineering and Perhaps X= Muscle parts and Z= Ford service parts.

Casting can also have a number that breaks down to actual casting date e.g. 6c06 would break down to 6 the year of the decade 6 for the sixth year C for the letter of the month and 06 would be the day of the month.


I wil stand corrected if im wrong, but its difficult to dispute a date code when its stamped into the block, for a cleveland to be built in 1969, it would have to be stamped with teh first letter as a "C".

[nugget378]

The casting dates 4vman mentions are on the block,I have seen them..

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by nugget378

The casting dates 4vman mentions are on the block,I have seen them..

where abouts on the block? The casting number quoted does not corelate to the FoMoCo dates, would be nice to see these, digi camera at all?

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer

Sorry, a BOSS 302 is officially a Windsor

Where in that post did I say otherwise? I was pointing out the distinct lack awesomeness in the Boss260/290s... I do hope you're not reffering to that windsor headed abomination that ford have released as a "Boss302" crate motor? The real Boss 302 is neither windsor nor Cleveland, merely a combination of Cleveland heads and Windsor block to build the best 302 cubic inch v8 ever released to the public.

As for the term "D" block when referring to Clevo's, if you knew *anything* about them you'd realise that the "D" refers to the shape of the cast in pad that is machined flat on the left hand side of the timing chain housing. Later Aussie cast blocks, referred to as "blue blocks" or "square blocks" have a square boss in this same position.
Please try to keep up

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer

where abouts on the block? The casting number quoted does not corelate to the FoMoCo dates, would be nice to see these, digi camera at all?

Trust me on this, the dates are correct, ive been around clevelands and GT falcons just a little bit....
The D0AE casting revision id refers to the intended release year of the parts, NOT its year of manufacture, the casting date gives you the date of manufacture, otherwise how do you explain the D2AE cleveland blocks (D2 meaning 1972) being cast till 1977...
The cleveland was designed as a 1970 engine, hence the "D0" first 2 digets of the part, but as most people know the early versions and prototyping was done in 1969.
If you need more proof just hop under a feb 1970 cleveland XWGT, those engines are cast in 1969, and carry 1969 casting dates, but D0AE block part number revision codes.

[mongoloid]

While ive only owned windsors, clevos were built to be race motors. I think windsors won (longevity wise) out due to their size.

[RIPGMH]

The cleveland was a better engine in the 70's than the boss is in the 00's. Obviously 30 years of design and engineering are clearly going to have their advantages. If we weren't Australians the cleveland probably wouldn't mean dick to the majority of us. But I love em'!! That said I just bought RDP's black XR8 and its an absolute ball tearer

[fordAU]

Since the whole forum has voted on this one I better get in as well.

I vote for the Wheezer because I have one and am not technically minded enough to really know which is best

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

The cleveland was a better engine in the 70's than the boss is in the 00's. Obviously 30 years of design and engineering are clearly going to have their advantages. If we weren't Australians the cleveland probably wouldn't mean dick to the majority of us. But I love em'!! That said I just bought RDP's black XR8 and its an absolute ball tearer

Hey there,

Thats a great purchase youve made, you will be very happy if not lighter for the speeding fines, LOL.

have fun.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by fordAU

Since the whole forum has voted on this one I better get in as well.

I vote for the Wheezer because I have one and am not technically minded enough to really know which is best

Do you know why the Windsor is nicknamed the Wheezer?

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

The cleveland was a better engine in the 70's than the boss is in the 00's.

This is so true. Much though I hate to say it, the Gen III and its 6L variants are the Clevelands of the 00s. BOSS doesn't come close.

... and my mighty 175kw windsor is probably the 253 of the 00s.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by mongoloid

While ive only owned windsors, clevos were built to be race motors. I think windsors won (longevity wise) out due to their size.

I don't think this is entirely true. I recall reading somewhere that the Cleveland block was also developed with early 70's emission controls in mind, and was actually intended to replace the Windsor - something about recirculation channels moulded into the block or something.

Ironically, when the next stage of US emssions regs came a few years later, Ford found it too hard to modify the Cleveland because it was so specifically designed to suit the earlier emissions regs, so they killed it and redirected their interest to the Windsor.

Some of the Cleveland experts can no doubt confirm/deny/clarify this.

[Falcon_Phill]

So why is it called a wheezer?

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

So why is it called a wheezer?

Because they have athsma,and without a rather large puffer they cant breathe.
Actually without a large clevo head the puffer wont help that much either :P

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Because they have athsma,and without a rather large puffer they cant breathe.
Actually without a large clevo head the puffer wont help that much either :P

hey, ask FRDPWR if his wheezer has athsma

[GRNKPR]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Do you know why the Windsor is nicknamed the Wheezer?

yeah but my wheezer sure came round you pretty quick at WINTON !!!!!!!!!!!!

[GRNKPR]

had widsors and clevos and made good power out of both ,but the clevo cost a lot less than the windsor to build ,Windsor have good of the shelf performance parts but the clevos have a good selection of heads too choose from still windsor for me though


Good thread as it show the pigheadedness of some and tunnel vision the are still all ford

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

yeah but my wheezer sure came round you pretty quick at WINTON !!!!!!!!!!!!

We let you past as you had a lot more corner speed :eclipsee_

I was surprised that your car didn't appear to pull away from mine down the straights as I only have a set of cleaned up Cleveland 2V heads and you had a set of exotic alloy heads. Perhaps I was getting a good draft.

I will be really surprised if your car will be able to round up my new car.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by philstoj

hey, ask FRDPWR if his wheezer has athsma

Yes, and an animal it is
Still not quite up to protd's smallblock 408ci cleveland though,hope fully my 400+ cuber goes as well..

[GRNKPR]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

We let you past as you had a lot more corner speed :eclipsee_

I was surprised that your car didn't appear to pull away from mine down the straights as I only have a set of cleaned up Cleveland 2V heads and you had a set of exotic alloy heads. Perhaps I was getting a good draft.

I will be really surprised if your car will be able to round up my new car.

i was on my cool down lap but i saw you and the race face took over yeah i saw pics on here of your new ride have you got any times at winton on it

i have only cast heads on mine not alloys Mr Roush helped me out


Engine isa coming out as we speak for a bigger cam shaft and some match porting should be able to get a couple more KW s

[blueoval]

I have had both clevelands and windsors. Like them both coz their V8's. I know they have different characteristics, and a Boss motor I have never had, but I dont mind as long as its a V8.

[FPV329]

I had a 302 Clevo in an XB Coupe, good engine it was, it loved to run, get out on the road and it just wanted to go and go.

Now I have a Boss 32v in a BA Sedan, good engine it is, it loves to run, get out on the road and it just wants to go and go.

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by xbgs351
Do you know why the Windsor is nicknamed the Wheezer?

See sig...

funny, funny stuff

Clevo is still ahead...w00t!

[fou_bleu]

Can we make it a multiple choice! :(

[fou_bleu]

This BOSS: +
Or this BOSS:

[xbgs351]

Or this BOSS:

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

i was on my cool down lap but i saw you and the race face took over yeah i saw pics on here of your new ride have you got any times at winton on it

i have only cast heads on mine not alloys Mr Roush helped me out


Engine isa coming out as we speak for a bigger cam shaft and some match porting should be able to get a couple more KW s

I have times that the car has done on the short course at Winton, but they are from before I purchased it.

[FRA]

I vote for Windsor because they sell performance parts for the Ford Focus, plus Windsor has a V8 crate engine kit for the focus.

If anyone wants performance parts for there Mustang, F-Series and Focus.
just PM me and just let me know what you want with part no.