Covid 19 -

[Citroënbender]

More of a worry, shorter term, is the glucose monitors being potentially interfered with. Maybe it would be simpler to go back to the old model for people who suspect they have the virus, viz:

...his garments shall be torn, his head shall be unshorn, he shall cover himself down to his mustache and call out, "Unclean Unclean!"

[Jack91]

If you have the app, and come into contact with someone who has the virus, if the app knows that the person is infected, then it stands to reason that the infected person is knowingly out and about breaking the rules, yet has downloaded the app to "save lives".....?

If it doesnt work like that, instead, alerting anyone ive been near that they are at risk if i test positive a fortnight later, then the damage is already done? Yeah, ill take 2 weeks off work because i walked past some guy in the supermarket. Righttttttt. Good luck with that.

I just cant understand how it could make any difference. All it seems to be is an expensive, kneejerk reaction, like most government initiatives.
Really glad to hear it debated on radio shows etc. Its funny that the supporters only argument is " because we said so"

[Jack91]

Remember when global warming and that annoying little girl was a thing? And people got offended at being labeled male or female?
Man, they were the days aye.

[Citroënbender]

What about a super-secure app for conspiracy theorists, which alerts them when another likeminded person is nearby? Sort of like Grindr without the risk of venereal disease.

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

What about a super-secure app for conspiracy theorists, which alerts them when another likeminded person is nearby? Sort of like Grindr without the risk of venereal disease.

Youre gonna have to fill us in on how Grindr works mate.

[Charliewool]

No app... No work...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...rkers/12209182

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

No app... No work...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...rkers/12209182

That's also the country that sprayed migrant workers with bleach and was beating people with sticks for being out of their houses

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/engl...id-19-lockdown

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Jack91

If you have the app, and come into contact with someone who has the virus, if the app knows that the person is infected, then it stands to reason that the infected person is knowingly out and about breaking the rules, yet has downloaded the app to "save lives".....?

If it doesnt work like that, instead, alerting anyone ive been near that they are at risk if i test positive a fortnight later, then the damage is already done? Yeah, ill take 2 weeks off work because i walked past some guy in the supermarket. Righttttttt. Good luck with that.

I just cant understand how it could make any difference. All it seems to be is an expensive, kneejerk reaction, like most government initiatives.
Really glad to hear it debated on radio shows etc. Its funny that the supporters only argument is " because we said so"

Gee a lot of strawman arguments there, I couldn't resist a reply, plus I can't sleep.

The application of the app is in its simplicity.

If you get the virus then the health authorities will be able to get in touch with people who have been in contact with you as indicated via bluetooth.

Alternatively, the health authorities will contact you if the app shows you came into contact with an infected person.

The health authorities will then tell you what to do next.

To answer your other concerns:

It is cheap.
It is not a kneejerk reaction, but yours is.
In some people their symptoms are asymptomatic, the app will tell them they have been in contact with someone who has the virus.
It's not only about flattening the curve, but getting ahead of it.

Don't be a silly boy and download the app. The life you save might be your own.

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Romulus

You're a hypocrite who talks out of both sides of your mouth.

We're all in this together, yet you've never been as busy as you are now? You are just like everyone else who is not affected financially or emotionally with the loss of an income or incomes and piling mountains of debt. You sound just like the people who make these decisions, the politicians and government workers who are completely unaffected financially while destroying the lives of millions, based on a virus which 95% of the population will get over without any major complications.

Get off your high horse, you're attitude is disgraceful. Show some empathy for those who are about to or have lost everything.

Tell me, why has the government sank millions for additional funding for the domestic violence helpline and lifeline?

Fortunately for me, I'm like you, I get to sit in my ivory tower not affected what so ever but do have empathy for those who've lost lives and lost jobs.

Is this the virtue signalling your lot is always going on about in action?

[FairmontGS]

Facebook app: "We want to track where you go, what you buy, what other apps you have on your phone, who you talk to, what you click on, and who you're related to or friends with, and also bombard you with targeted advertisements based on algorithms so sublty sophisticated you'll think your phone is listening to you. In return, we'll let you share ****ty cat memes or read 'news' articles written by flat-earthers"

Everyone: SIGN ME UP

Government: "We'd like you to download this app so that we can track anonymised data that will help stop the spread of coronavirus"

Everyone: SOURCE CODE OR GTFO

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by Cav

Gee a lot of strawman arguments there, I couldn't resist a reply, plus I can't sleep.

The application of the app is in its simplicity.

If you get the virus then the health authorities will be able to get in touch with people who have been in contact with you as indicated via bluetooth.

Alternatively, the health authorities will contact you if the app shows you came into contact with an infected person.

The health authorities will then tell you what to do next.

To answer your other concerns:

It is cheap.
It is not a kneejerk reaction, but yours is.
In some people their symptoms are asymptomatic, the app will tell them they have been in contact with someone who has the virus.
It's not only about flattening the curve, but getting ahead of it.

Don't be a silly boy and download the app. The life you save might be your own.

Appreciate your concern but my arguments still stand. So its a no from me.

[Fed]

The app won't work on me because I don't stand still for 15 Minutes but everyone else should download it.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Cav

Gee a lot of strawman arguments there, I couldn't resist a reply, plus I can't sleep.

Is that because of all the gorgeous babes constantly demanding your Doberman I think it was, you referred to...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Facebook app: "We want to track where you go, what you buy, what other apps you have on your phone, who you talk to, what you click on, and who you're related to or friends with, and also bombard you with targeted advertisements based on algorithms so sublty sophisticated you'll think your phone is listening to you. In return, we'll let you share ****ty cat memes or read 'news' articles written by flat-earthers"

Everyone: SIGN ME UP

Government: "We'd like you to download this app so that we can track anonymised data that will help stop the spread of coronavirus"

Everyone: SOURCE CODE OR GTFO

So many iwords I don't understand here FGS. I still play my music on records...

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Ben73

image

That worked out well for him.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The US has the ****s up with lockdown:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/chaos-as-u...051819139.html

I'm not surprised. There is a good portion of the US that takes some kind of vicarious pleasure in civil disobedience because they believe they have a insert deity of your choice here-given right to do so.

Mind you, we're not that far behind them in attitude but for different social reasons with the only saving grace being there isn't quite the same proportion of our population that thinks that way.

The USA is going to end up a prime example of how not to manage Coronavirus (or indeed any major issue). Their active and new case rates continue to climb at an alarming rate where most other countries are tapering off except for those who started later like some of the Middle East countries.

I don't want to be crystal ball gazing but we've already passed Donald's 60k death prediction and they are still averaging more than 28,000 new cases a day with a 5.8% CMR as well as having almost 900k active cases.
Statistically, therefore, something like 40,000 of the current active cases will die and ~1,600 of the new cases each day will have the same fate so until the new infection rate slows, the picture isn't a pretty one.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's also the country that sprayed migrant workers with bleach and was beating people with sticks for being out of their houses

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/engl...id-19-lockdown

And the problem with that is??

[zipping]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Facebook app: "We want to track where you go, what you buy, what other apps you have on your phone, who you talk to, what you click on, and who you're related to or friends with, and also bombard you with targeted advertisements based on algorithms so sublty sophisticated you'll think your phone is listening to you. In return, we'll let you share ****ty cat memes or read 'news' articles written by flat-earthers"

Everyone: SIGN ME UP

Government: "We'd like you to download this app so that we can track anonymised data that will help stop the spread of coronavirus"

Everyone: SOURCE CODE OR GTFO

An argument seen a lot, however fb and the like can't/don't

put people in jail
data match with the tax office data
data match with centrelink data
data match with state/territory licence (and face image) data
data match the meta-data they have forced telephone companies to collect and store
share with other governments

and other nefarious purposes that only bureaucrats can dream up.....for your safety of course, government love mission creep.

Considering the app can't monitor asymptomatic contagion where infection can be 20-100 times known infections, its a waste of time anyway.

[russellw]

Australia recorded 16 new cases yesterday but no deaths so the CMR dropped to 1.371% and the active case percentage dropped to 13.3%.

New Zealand had 6 new cases and one death so the CMR rises to 1.347% while active cases drops to 14.1%.

The UK was under 5k new cases and just over 600 deaths so the CMR improved slightly to 15.435% but active cases climbed to 84.3%.

The USA had more than 36,000 new cases but under 2,000 deaths so both the CMR and active case percentage improved to 5.814% and 79.9% respectively. The USA now has almost a third of all cases globally (33.29%) and more than a quarter of the death toll (27.5%).

Europe is probably going to pass the 1.5M case mark by early next week and while a lot of countries are gaining ground, some continue to struggle.

Around Australia, NSW had 5 new cases, Victoria 7 and Queensland had 1 but the NT, which hadn't had a case in 25 days, recorded 2 new cases.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by russellw

That worked out well for him.
There is a good portion of the US that takes some kind of vicarious pleasure in civil disobedience because they believe they have a insert deity of your choice here-given right to do so.

Yeh, its called freedom and an aversion to the tyranny of government.

Greatest increase in standard of living and life expectancy the world has ever seen has been the result.

What specifically could the US have done different to avoid this or manage it better?

Considering NYC is probably the top tourist destination in the world once it was out, their fate was sealed. 4% of cases are in New York and New Jersey

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by zipping

An argument seen a lot, however fb and the like can't/don't

put people in jail
data match with the tax office data
data match with centrelink data
data match with state/territory licence (and face image) data
data match the meta-data they have forced telephone companies to collect and store
share with other governments

and other nefarious purposes that only bureaucrats can dream up.....for your safety of course, government love mission creep.

Considering the app can't monitor asymptomatic contagion where infection can be 20-100 times known infections, its a waste of time anyway.

Silly sausage Gov-mint already does all that with legitimate systems backed by legislation but I don't see you out on the street with a pitchfork and placard?

At the end of the day, if people are of a deep-stater/vaxer/anti-govmint mind-set then there's no argument that will change their mind

[zipping]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Silly sausage Gov-mint already does all that with legitimate systems backed by legislation but I don't see you out on the street with a pitchfork and placard?

At the end of the day, if people are of a deep-stater/vaxer/anti-govmint mind-set then there's no argument that will change their mind

What app currently goes back to a government agency that allows them to track my whereabouts and who I was with?

Is there another app that the gov can update to add further features?

[knight rider]

Originally Posted by russellw

Australia recorded 16 new cases yesterday but no deaths so the CMR dropped to 1.371% and the active case percentage dropped to 13.3%.

New Zealand had 6 new cases and one death so the CMR rises to 1.347% while active cases drops to 14.1%.

The UK was under 5k new cases and just over 600 deaths so the CMR improved slightly to 15.435% but active cases climbed to 84.3%.

The USA had more than 36,000 new cases but under 2,000 deaths so both the CMR and active case percentage improved to 5.814% and 79.9% respectively. The USA now has almost a third of all cases globally (33.29%) and more than a quarter of the death toll (27.5%).

Europe is probably going to pass the 1.5M case mark by early next week and while a lot of countries are gaining ground, some continue to struggle.

Around Australia, NSW had 5 new cases, Victoria 7 and Queensland had 1 but the NT, which hadn't had a case in 25 days, recorded 2 new cases.

I think the most telling thing from all that is that NT can go 25days with no new known cases but than get two. The number of actual cases would appear to be way higher, maybe as high as 200% more or even higher.

How many people would even bother getting tested if they had very little to no symptoms? Lots!! so there lies the problem and as more restrictions come off we will just see the numbers rise again and no app is going to stop that as much as the Gov wants everyone to have it - but I guess they will at least have an excuse if the numbers do rise
The other problem is as we all get over hearing about this people will be even less likely to bother with solical distancing and also getting checked so rinse and repeat off we go again

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by zipping

Yeh, its called freedom and an aversion to the tyranny of government.

Greatest increase in standard of living and life expectancy the world has ever seen has been the result.

What specifically could the US have done different to avoid this or manage it better?

Considering NYC is probably the top tourist destination in the world once it was out, their fate was sealed. 4% of cases are in New York and New Jersey

And its still one of the most facked up countries in the world .....which the rest of the world seams to model themselves on?.... whatever happens over there

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'm glad to see that we're backing in Taiwan as an observer state for WHO, they have done a good job. No doubt China will crack the ****s about that and there is some form of punishment coming for us.

I'm pretty disappointed to see us Aussies putting our neck out for what should be common sense and not a lot of support for it.

We alone won't make any difference but potentially take a huge hit. Where the **** is everyone else?

The investigation doesn't have to begin tomorrow, next week, or even next month but it has to happen.

We need to know the where, the why and the how to try and mitigate this cluster**** the whole world has found itself in. That's beneficial to even China.

I know that from US side it is a lot more political than here but excepting a few loose MPs and senators the only official communication that matters is from the PM and Foreign Minister and it has been mostly objective.

Our foreign affairs minister and deputy PM Winston Peters came out yesterday saying they will back the enquiry

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

At the end of the day, if people are of a deep-stater/vaxer/anti-govmint mind-set then there's no argument that will change their mind

We can’t all just download our opinion out of the ABC news anchors mouth each night.

I assume your still sitting at home thinking gee wiz how unlucky are we to have had a bat virus transmit cross species in a fish market with no bats..

And then China to have been unaware of human to human transmission as they started shutting down travel across the country due to a random pneumonia as they started suppressing their state media, but decided not to inconvenience their citizens whom they show endless respect to by allowing them to travel to every major capital of the world.

Nah, I’m sure ABC and others would be all over this from the get go with their amazing investigative journos if anything suspicious was going on.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by knight rider

I think the most telling thing from all that is that NT can go 25days with no new known cases but than get two. The number of actual cases would appear to be way higher, maybe as high as 200% more or even higher.

How many people would even bother getting tested if they had very little to no symptoms? Lots!! so there lies the problem and as more restrictions come off we will just see the numbers rise again and no app is going to stop that as much as the Gov wants everyone to have it - but I guess they will at least have an excuse if the numbers do rise
The other problem is as we all get over hearing about this people will be even less likely to bother with solical distancing and also getting checked so rinse and repeat off we go again

I believe the 2 were the returned service men. So it wasn't community transmission

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by knight rider

I think the most telling thing from all that is that NT can go 25days with no new known cases but than get two. The number of actual cases would appear to be way higher, maybe as high as 200% more or even higher.

How many people would even bother getting tested if they had very little to no symptoms? Lots!! so there lies the problem and as more restrictions come off we will just see the numbers rise again and no app is going to stop that as much as the Gov wants everyone to have it - but I guess they will at least have an excuse if the numbers do rise
The other problem is as we all get over hearing about this people will be even less likely to bother with social distancing and also getting checked so rinse and repeat off we go again

The latest cases in the NT are ADF guys that tested positive while stationed in the Middle East, they were added to the list when repatriated to the NT......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...itive/12199950

[russellw]

Originally Posted by zipping

Yeh, its called freedom and an aversion to the tyranny of government.

What specifically could the US have done different to avoid this or manage it better?

Tyranny of Government. A great argument when there's nothing left. If you want to try tyrannical Governments there's a lot of countries you'd have on the list before the USA or Australia.

Clearly, the USA federal approach of relying on people to social distance and then applying localised lockdowns has been somewhat less than effective to the point where the worst affected States - New York, California, New Jersey, Illinois, Nevada, New Jersey, Ohio, and Pennsylvania have all implemented full lockdowns in varying degrees.

Equally, the testing strategy was a day late and a dollar short in terms of timeliness so that they couldn't effectively identify hot-spots . They have ramped it up recently in an effort to catch up but it's a big task and their test percentage is similar to ours now at 3.3% of the population (AU 3.4%).

I'll do a bit of a drill down later but the States that are starting to ease restrictions like Texas and Georgia will be worth watching over the coming weeks as will countries like Spain and Singapore - both of which are probably too soon given their volume of active cases.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

We can’t all just download our opinion out of the ABC news anchors mouth each night.

I assume your still sitting at home thinking gee wiz how unlucky are we to have had a bat virus transmit cross species in a fish market with no bats..

And then China to have been unaware of human to human transmission as they started shutting down travel across the country due to a random pneumonia as they started suppressing their state media, but decided not to inconvenience their citizens whom they show endless respect to by allowing them to travel to every major capital of the world.

Nah, I’m sure ABC and others would be all over this from the get go with their amazing investigative journos if anything suspicious was going on.

We get The Australian, SMH and AFR on the weekends. Alternate Telegraph and SMH during the week. Watch ABC, 7, Al Jazeera, BBC, 9 but not 10 'cause rubbish station.

I find that a balanced media diet frees my mind from a predetermined position where I fly off the handle when someone presents an argument that I don't agree with. You should try it

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

We get The Australian, SMH and AFR on the weekends. Alternate Telegraph and SMH during the week. Watch ABC, 7, Al Jazeera, BBC, 9 but not 10 'cause rubbish station.

I find that a balanced media diet frees my mind from a predetermined position where I fly off the handle when someone presents an argument that I don't agree with. You should try it

Yes that’s clearly been on display.