New to cycling - Page 88

prydey · 10-03-2016, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No you still have the KOM as your effort failed to track properly on the road, my effort did so apparently I deviated from the segment. Looks like you will hold that KOM for quite a while.

strange. funny thing is, i don't even remember making that segment, but clearly i did given i'm the only one on it.

geckoGT · 10-03-2016, 10:55 PM

And somehow you went your own special way on a single road climb, pretty special. Is that your way of ensuring you keep the KOM?

prydey · 10-03-2016, 11:04 PM

just looked again at my ride. gee the garmin tracking is miles off. considering its mostly cliff on one side and drop off on the other most of the way up, its pretty amazing how i was able to ride up there without actually going on the road in some parts

geckoGT · 10-03-2016, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

just looked again at my ride. gee the garmin tracking is miles off. considering its mostly cliff on one side and drop off on the other most of the way up, its pretty amazing how i was able to ride up there without actually going on the road in some parts

You have been busted for dodgy Strava KOM doping, have you no shame?

Boosted8 · 10-03-2016, 11:19 PM

Got "doored" by some young lady on who was on the phone this afternoon. Apparently people don't look before they open their car door.

**Captain Stubing** · 10-03-2016, 11:20 PM

Any injuries or damage, Boosted8? It can happen so quickly!

geckoGT · 10-03-2016, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted8

Got "doored" by some young lady on who was on the phone this afternoon. Apparently people don't look before they open their car door.

That annoys me, I bet she also criticises cyclists for taking up too much road.

I hope you I came out of it ok.

Boosted8 · 10-03-2016, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

Any injuries or damage, Boosted8? It can happen so quickly!

It certainly does happen out of nowhere! Luckily I wasn't going very fast because I was climbing a hill. The collision buckled the front wheel, knocked the handlebars out of alignment and smashed my light. I scraped my knee and both hands but mainly it just freaked me out. I will look at the bike tomorrow morning and assess the damage, it felt very "wobbly" on the ride home and I honestly just didn't want to look at it.

I didn't get angry at her or anything like that but she seemed amazed that I was upset about it. She was obviously much more interested in her phone call...

**Captain Stubing** · 10-03-2016, 11:43 PM

And she is liable for the damage, you realize? I suspect you were too shocked to get her details...

GTpilot · 10-03-2016, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazawaki

I will end this here ,there is no such thing as basic road geometry,some bikes have good geometry as in the right length top tube ,the right height and size head tube and head tube angle and the correct seat tube angle and chain stay length ,apart from that there is also the fork rake and steerer tube angles to be considered .I have a saying this is in regards to group sets which are a bolt on part as the handling of a bike can not be altered as the frame is the heart of the bicycle . You can put a set of wheels of a BMW 7 series car on to a hiaundi and reverse but the hiundi is still going to drive like a hiundi not a bmw.

It's far more than a set of flash shiny wheels dude, I'm surprised someone with all your knowledge, experience and decades in the industry would say that.

Back in my days as a competitive waterskier, coach and ski designer for some of the worlds top brands, I would see far too many skiers buy top of the line skis and have no idea how to use them, thus their performance suffered and they did not enjoy themselves. Put those folks on a more basic ski with decent bindings and they would instantly ski 10 times better, and begin to enjoy themselves more, once their technique has improved only then they can benefit from a more high performance stick.

Similar goes for cycling (and most other sports for that matter). A novice rider will have no idea about the difference in handling, let alone how to make to most of it. I have ridden with folks that have been riding for many years, but their bike handing skills are garbage, they corner with their cranks horizontal, whilst sitting upright, hands on the tops. They ride up steep climbs at 50-60 rpm grinding on a 39-25 gear ratio in complete pain....etc.. As a novice improves their riding, their technique and progresses their skills riding a more forgiving and relaxed frame with compact cranks and larger cassette cogs, they will become better riders and can then make the most of the handling characteristics of a better frame set. Thats when that, now intermediate level rider can look to a frameset upgrade and actually benefit from it, and like gecko_GT has mentioned, end up with quite a decent bike by carrying their decent groupset over, spending minimal extra on a better quality cassette or set of brake calipers. A 105 5800 groupset is going to provide better, smoother shifting and braking performance than an ancient design sora groupset will.

To use your car analogy, no point buying a bmw 7 series and putting a Hyundai drive train in it. but a BMW drive train will make a Hyundai a much better experience, once you learn how to drive, a better chassis will complement it more.
Top level motor racing drivers don't start in an F1 or V8supercar, Its go karts or production cars they are easier to drive, but as they get better, they move up.

All this aside, First and foremost the single piece of advice a buyer needs to ensure they do is the ride the bike first before buying. All things said and done, there is no argument to be had that frame and groupset have no bearing on the fact that if the bike does not fit and you are not comfortable on it, it's not going to be a good experience.

GTpilot · 11-03-2016, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted8

I didn't get angry at her or anything like that but she seemed amazed that I was upset about it. She was obviously much more interested in her phone call...

Sounds like you handled it well, Kudos. Far too many cyclists getting aggressive with drivers over small things and silly "human" mistakes. Does not help already tense relationships, Although it seems like you should have "accidentally" bumped her phone out of her hand so she dropped it...

Boosted8 · 11-03-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

And she is liable for the damage, you realize? I suspect you were too shocked to get her details...

Even though I was shaken up, after a few minutes I realised I should get her info. She gave me her phone number and I have her rego anyway. I think she was a bit shocked as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Sounds like you handled it well, Kudos. Far too many cyclists getting aggressive with drivers over small things and silly "human" mistakes. Does not help already tense relationships, Although it seems like you should have "accidentally" bumped her phone out of her hand so she dropped it...

Yeah, I simply don't agree with acting aggressively any more. Like you said, she made a silly "human" mistake. When I was younger, I used to blow my top at just about everything but I came to realise that it did more damage to myself than it ever did to anyone else. Funnily enough the first thing I said was "THERE'S A CYCLIST HERE!!!" her face was all :O

As a method for getting a girl's phone number... I'd give this one a 5/10 - not my worst effort tbh

prydey · 11-03-2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted8

As a method for getting a girl's phone number... I'd give this one a 5/10 - not my worst effort tbh

ahh, every cloud has a silver lining

roKWiz · 13-03-2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I see your point but in the end you are insinuating the Reid is a copy and a bad one at that. Is it really or is it just another aluminium frame like all the others. Really when you are talking aluminium frames Trek are a copy too, Cannondale and Klein were the real originals in aluminium road bikes (actually Alan were long before them but they were lugged).

In the end the basic geometry of your standard road bike is not that new, it is a time old formula that is tweaked to different purposes but the basics are the same, aluminium is old technology as is the process of constructing the frame. Have Reid copied someone else spec sheet or do they have someone that designs the frame based on their knowledge of building frames? Is your assertion they are a bad copy known fact or an assumption based on the fact that Reid does not have a label based on historical value? It is interesting doing some research on user reviews and I have not found any that mention frame failures, some fit issues and gears needing adjusting but no frame failures. Do a search on Merckx, Pinnarello, Cannondale (crack and fail), Trek, Orbea and just about any other high end reputable brand you can think of and you will comments about frame failures.

Yes technology has a massive bearing on carbon frames but not so much a basic aluminium frame.
better value to the buyer of a low spec 6061T6 aluminium frame? You have to admit that a lot of any perceived value is in the name.

I think you will find 6061 T6 is not a low spec aluminium, most cheap alloy bikes are made from 7005 grade which is not heat treated.
Klein and Cannondale were at the forefront of heat treated 6061 T6 for years until both their demise. (I'm talking handmade in the USA demise)

Most of these framesets along with all other bicycle are cheaply built in China or Taiwan now. I don't understand why anyone would pay more for them now.
I'm still riding around on 20+ year old MTB Cannondales (I bought new $3000 to $5000) cause I can rebuild them time and time again due to their frame quality.
People I ride with have gone through several bikes or given up, simple cause they have no understanding of riding properly and destroying them.

Most frame issues back then were traced back to riders mistreating their bikes.
I compare it to buying an old quality car / truck and rebuilding it as required.
Apart from weight I can not see any technology in road bike frames after all its still just a basic double triangle.
You'll be really surprised to know where your high end carbon Italian ??? roadbike frames are sourced.
Some interesting reading on retrobike.UK regarding this.

edit. Glad your OK Boosted

geckoGT · 14-03-2016, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I think you will find 6061 T6 is not a low spec aluminium, most cheap alloy bikes are made from 7005 grade which is not heat treated.
Klein and Cannondale were at the forefront of heat treated 6061 T6 for years until both their demise. (I'm talking handmade in the USA demise)

Most of these framesets along with all other bicycle are cheaply built in China or Taiwan now. I don't understand why anyone would pay more for them now.
I'm still riding around on 20+ year old MTB Cannondales (I bought new $3000 to $5000) cause I can rebuild them time and time again due to their frame quality.
People I ride with have gone through several bikes or given up, simple cause they have no understanding of riding properly and destroying them.

Most frame issues back then were traced back to riders mistreating their bikes.
I compare it to buying an old quality car / truck and rebuilding it as required.
Apart from weight I can not see any technology in road bike frames after all its still just a basic double triangle.
You'll be really surprised to know where your high end carbon Italian ??? roadbike frames are sourced.
Some interesting reading on retrobike.UK regarding this.

edit. Glad your OK Boosted

There is a lot of truth in what you say but there are some areas I disagree on depending on rider usage and ability.

For a start even a 6061 T6 aluminium frame does not last forever and will definitely not last 20 years of competitive racing. I have one in the shed which is now 13 years old with not a lot of use in the last few years (after I bought the Merckx). It came back into use last year for a short time while the Merckx was having the BB repaired. During that time it cracked through the drive side drop out at the chain stay. Aluminium does fatigue and will fail, that is why nearly all manufacturers exclude competition from their "lifetime" warranty. I will give the old frame credit, it did a lot of km's. You might be comfortable riding a 20 year old aluminium frame but after having a 13 year old aluminium frame crack through a drop out, I am not so sure I would trust one on a 90 km/h descent on mountain roads with large embankments as the crash option should the frame fail at a really bad time.

As for where your high end italian bikes are made, I have made mention a number of times in this thread that many are made in Taiwan. This includes Merckx, Pinarello and Colnago amongst others. Most make their middle to lower end carbon frames in Taiwan as the lowered production costs keep them reasonably competitive. My Merckx was made in Italy, it was the last year that spec frame was, the next generation was made in Taiwan. Is there a quality compromise? I am not so sure there is as the design and specs still come from Merckx (or Pirelli, Colnago, Trek etc) and they have their name riding on it. If they started putting their name on low quality dogs their reputation will suffer.

16 years ago I rode a Canondale R4000 CAAD3 which was arguably when Canondale was at the top of the Aluminium game. It was silly light for the time fitted with Dura Ace 9spd and Mavic Helium wheels (it later got Mavic Ksyriums when they were first released). It was also very stiff and a standout machine for hitting the climbs. All told it was a brilliant machine but it had some flaws. Ride it for 160kms and you would know what I mean, it was stiff but it was unforgiving. The front was not too bad as it had quite a nice carbon fork (alloy steerer) but the back end was pretty brutal on anything but nice smooth roads. In fact the bike I had a few years previously which was a custom Kerry Hopkins in reynolds 753 tubing and fork was a lot more comfortable bike for long rides. Not quite as stiff and not as light by a long shot but nicer to ride. I road that Canondale fitted with Zipp 440 wheels at the 2002 Ironman Australia which at the time was at Forster, the roads there are very rough. I had the saddle with the best reputation for being both comfortable and competitive in the Selle Italia Trans Am and after a 180km time trial I got off the bike feeling like I had been beaten to death by Mike Tyson. Not a good way to head into a marathon.

The next year I rode my Monoc TC2 Compact which was again aluminium but had carbon seat stays and carbon fork, I also added a carbon post which was a USE Alien in 27.2mm. This bike was a huge improvement, just as stiff laterally but it was more forgiving vertically and I did a PB in the bike and run legs. My time in 2002 was 10 hrs 28 and in 2003 it was 9hrs 52, a significant improvement and some of that was definitely due to the bike.

Now I have a full carbon Merckx 1xm frame which was initially built with the same group set, wheels, seat post, bars and stem from the Monoc. The difference was amazing in ride comfort. The bike was a touch lighter but not much in it really and the Monoc may have been a bit stiffer in the BB and chain stay but it was not really that noticeable. What was noticeable is the way the new frame takes the sting out of the road surface. I had even changed the seat to a lighter and less forgiving Selle Italia Flight SLR and still felt more comfortable on longer rides. When I had to swap back to the Monoc I hated it, aluminium was good in its day but I will not go back to it. That is not to say that Aluminium is a bad material for a frame, it is a good material but in my experience in what I want in a bike, a quality carbon frame is better.

You also have to consider compatibility issues with older frames built for 7 and 8 speed having difficulty accepting the increased width of 11 speed cassettes. Hubs have to be modified and in some cases drop out width has to be altered. Yes you can stay with your old group set and replace parts as needed but eventually parts get hard to get. Even parts for my 2003 Dura Ace group set were starting to become hard to get as shops were not carrying them anymore and all parts were having to be ordered in. Added to that, group sets do wear out and not just in the chain, cassettes, chain rings and other consumables.

I suppose at the end of the day a lot depends on what you use the bike for. If I was doing casual fitness rides on smooth metro roads around Brisbane, no competition and not expecting my bike to put up with a beating a 20 year old aluminium frame might do ok. I spend most of my time riding on rough semi rural roads, up and down mountain roads with long climbs and equally long and dangerous descents. Added to that I will be getting back into road racing when some of my fitness returns so I will be punishing my bike even more. Think I will stick with newer frames and replace them before reliability becomes an issue.

GUTLES · 14-03-2016, 08:08 AM

Has anyone upgraded from a Garmin Edge 510 to a 520? Is it worth it?

GTpilot · 14-03-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTLES

Has anyone upgraded from a Garmin Edge 510 to a 520? Is it worth it?

It's really a matter of what you want to get out of it.

I have a 510 and to be honest can't see any good reason to upgrade. Most of the new features in the 520 I have in the 510 now via firmware upgrades. The only thing missing that may be the ability to get SMS notifications via BT from you phone....IF they work with your model of phone.
I was seriously considering getting the 1000 to get navigation, but managed to snag a cyclo505 really cheap which ticks that box fine. But that aside the 510 is still my goto unit.

The 510 supports the new speed cadence sensors.
It has starva live segments
Battery life on my 510 is still good
There is probably one or two features that the 520 has over the 510, but I really have no interest in them.

Save the cash and go get a power meter. My 4iiii precision cost me just over $600 fitted ready to go. It's not missed a beat and once you learn how to use it correctly it opens up a whole new world esp if you're a data nerd like me.

prydey · 14-03-2016, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTpilot

My 4iiii precision cost me just over $600 fitted ready to go.

when power meters first started appearing, i thought, unless you are competing or something, how could you justify the cost. it all seemed a little extravagent. now, i'd really like to have one, and its great to see the added competition in the market start to bring the prices down.

i like doing the bigger rides, so being able to ride to a number and know that you can sustain it for a long period is something that appeals, also chasing PR's up climbs, it can help you not blow up too early.

for me they are still a bit pricey, but that price you have quoted is pretty good.

i'll have to look up the 4iii unit as i'm not familiar with that brand but i assume its a crank style setup?

**Captain Stubing** · 14-03-2016, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

when power meters first started appearing, i thought, unless you are competing or something, how could you justify the cost. it all seemed a little extravagent. now, i'd really like to have one, and its great to see the added competition in the market start to bring the prices down.

i like doing the bigger rides, so being able to ride to a number and know that you can sustain it for a long period is something that appeals, also chasing PR's up climbs, it can help you not blow up too early.

for me they are still a bit pricey, but that price you have quoted is pretty good.

i'll have to look up the 4iii unit as i'm not familiar with that brand but i assume its a crank style setup?

I though power meters started around the $1k mark, but this one is a bit cheaper! The Canadian dollar seems to be on par with the Aussie dollar...

http://4iiii.com/product/precision/

geckoGT · 14-03-2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

I though power meters started around the $1k mark, but this one is a bit cheaper! The Canadian dollar seems to be on par with the Aussie dollar...

http://4iiii.com/product/precision/

Bugger, it is not compatible with Campagnolo carbon cranks.

GTpilot · 14-03-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Bugger, it is not compatible with Campagnolo carbon cranks.

.........so tempting, but no, I won't say it.

geckoGT · 14-03-2016, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTpilot

.........so tempting, but no, I won't say it.

Yeah thanks.

Looks like I get the super expensive options like Stages, I guess I deserve it for being a Campagnolo snob.

mcnews · 15-03-2016, 01:43 PM

I am up for some retail therapy and having never owned a real high end bike then I am looking at going big on this one.

I have friends in the right places that are getting me a price on a Cannondale Synapse Carbon Hi-Mod Black Inc. If that price is still not affordable enough then I can also get a reasonable deal on a 2016 Giant Defy Advanced SL0. Both bikes will be awesome, but the Cannondale has more yum factor so hope the price I get is good enough to go with Cannondale.

prydey · 15-03-2016, 03:39 PM

good for you Trev. consider me very jealous

roKWiz · 15-03-2016, 04:32 PM

Hey gecko, I think you missed the point. mate, I'm not talking about road stuff.
I have raced Cannondale mountain bike for years and never had a problem with their triple butted triple swaged smooth mitre welded frames. (sounds like an ad)
Like I said I would (and do) happily trust my 20+ year old 6061 T6 frames over modern carbon however I have always inspected my frames after MTB rides for any sign of hairline cracks, which any racer worth his weight would do any way new or old bike.
If your racing road bikes now, you should be thoroughly inspecting your bike after each race. If your checking components, wheels you should check visually the frame.

Before carbon, this same issue appeared years ago when the cheap Russian Titanium frames flooded the market, (remember them ??) with everyone jumping onboard to discover they fell apart literally at the seams.

The US bike builders such as Moots, Merlin (to name a couple) built theirs using Sandvik 6. 4 grade Ti, while the also rans used 3.2 something Russian stuff, guess which Ti frame builders are still with us.

To anyone else who cares to listen when buying a complete bike or frameset, do your research and buy the very best quality material you can, alloy, carbon, Ti , magnesium or Berilium. Please don't just look at the components, flash wheels and listen to the crap the bike sales guy is trying to flog you.

My past comments are referring to mountain bikes quality.
I would not buy or ride a 7005 series alloy bike new or old.

geckoGT · 15-03-2016, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Hey gecko, I think you missed the point. mate, I'm not talking about road stuff.
I have raced Cannondale mountain bike for years and never had a problem with their triple butted triple swaged smooth mitre welded frames. (sounds like an ad)
Like I said I would (and do) happily trust my 20+ year old 6061 T6 frames over modern carbon however I have always inspected my frames after MTB rides for any sign of hairline cracks, which any racer worth his weight would do any way new or old bike.
If your racing road bikes now, you should be thoroughly inspecting your bike after each race. If your checking components, wheels you should check visually the frame.

Before carbon, this same issue appeared years ago when the cheap Russian Titanium frames flooded the market, (remember them ??) with everyone jumping onboard to discover they fell apart literally at the seams.

The US bike builders such as Moots, Merlin (to name a couple) built theirs using Sandvik 6. 4 grade Ti, while the also rans used 3.2 something Russian stuff, guess which Ti frame builders are still with us.

To anyone else who cares to listen when buying a complete bike or frameset, do your research and buy the very best quality material you can, alloy, carbon, Ti , magnesium or Berilium. Please don't just look at the components, flash wheels and listen to the crap the bike sales guy is trying to flog you.

My past comments are referring to mountain bikes quality.
I would not buy or ride a 7005 series alloy bike new or old.

The discussion that lead to all this was about road bikes but anyway.

Boosted8 · 16-03-2016, 05:04 PM

Well I finally got my bike all fixed up. I just needed to get a new rim because it really was buckled. The young lady that opened her door on me came through and paid for the damages. We settled it privately. I just charged her for the rim and also a new headlight because nothing else was broken. I didn't see the point in drawing it out so was just happy to have her pay for the parts and move on.

In other news: a work colleague demanded to know how I managed to get from work to the local shops faster than he did in his car. I didn't have the heart to tell him I'd already been in & out and was about to leave.

It's good to be on the road again.

MAGPIE · 18-03-2016, 07:41 PM

How is this for a tough bugger !

Quote:

Belgian competitor Stephane Bruggen certainly earned the title of Ironman.

Bruggen was reportedly 50km into the 180km cycling leg of Ironman New Zealand in Taupo this month when his saddle broke. He was sitting in fourth place in the 40-44 age group at the time but didn't give up.

Bruggen had to ride the remaining 130km while standing up on the bike but still completed it in 5 hours and 29 minutes before running a sub-four hour marathon to finish in 25th place in his age group.

His overall time of 10 hours, 16 minutes and 41 seconds saw him finish 131st overall.

"I had too much to thank a lot of people and there were so many people I wanted to race, it was not an option not to finish," he told 3athlon.be.

"So I thank anyone to push me to the finish, especially my wife and my son Jake. My quadriceps and my feet have never done so much pain."

MAGPIE · 18-03-2016, 07:46 PM

Friday funny...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnPUe80oBZw

Danny · 18-03-2016, 09:25 PM

Okay so I've been a bad boy....

I pick it up next week....

You can have a roadie and then have an Enduro to smash downhill trails right?? right!!!??????