Australia - China - Poltics

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I read somewhere that China could scour wool for 28c a kilo, but here it cost $1.75.

Except they can't, and it doesn't.

A few decades back, China effectively reinvented their entire economy, to make them more competitive and efficient. But we can't even fix the huge problems in our tax system.
Our problem is that for over 100 years we would periodically elect Labor governments who were obsessed with outdated socialist economic theories, and constantly increased the tax burden. Then we elect Liberal governments who say "thanks" and go and find new ways to spend the money.
We're now stuck with a tax system that is heavily punitive, and actually drives us to deliberately shrink our economy and become more inefficient.
And our constant political gridlock prevents us from fixing anything.

We all believe that "things" are too expensive in Australia, and for some reason both sides of government are happy for that lie to persist.
Yes, if you look at it from a "micro" point of view, it appears more expensive to have something done locally.
But not when taking a macro view.
Imagine if you will that you are bidding on a new contract (against a Chinese competitor) and the govt agrees that you can provide the service without paying taxes of any kind. Now also imagine that you could cut your wages bill because the new employees didn't have to pay taxes, then cut your supplies cost, then cut your wages bill further because your workers nolonger have to pay inflated living costs. Lastly take out all the costs driven by our inflated land prices. You would be highly competitive, you would have created jobs, and nobody would be worse off.

And if you think I'm talking nonsense, consider this. Having mined iron ore, and energy (say coal) it is apparently cheaper to ship them both to china, make the steel there (in a process that is NOT labour intensive) and then ship the steel back to Australia.
That is literally impossible, and yet it happens.

The first problem is that taxation.

The 2nd problem is that the Chinese government keeps selling their currency short, but the kicker is what they do with the other side.
We're actually getting hoodwinked.

Imagine this scenario:
The Reserve Bank of Australia starts selling off huge amounts of AUD on the foreign markets, this depresses the value and makes our exports more profitable.
This also cause the RBA to accumulate trillions of dollars in USD reserves.
This WOULD also make our imports very expensive, but the RBA then gives multiple Billions of those USD to BHP so they can buy foreign mines and take the produce cheaply,
The RBA also gives USD to companies like Qantas to buy their planes, and also gives massive interest free USD loans to private citizens so we can buy foreign real-estate.
Sounds Bizarre, illegal, unconstitutional, anti-free-trade, and just plain nuts? But thats EXACTLY what China does

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Except they can't, and it doesn't.

Probably the best post you have ever made, this from someone who grew up in the Perth northern suburbs of Balga/Nollamara and served in the Pilbara Iron Ore industry from the early 80's to the early 90's.......now working in the dying Offshore Oil & Gas industry off WA/NT......

[gooseneck]

Thought this was funny of news.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/technology/e...97fea3a989f966

Snow and wild weather will ease however chill winds to continue

NSW’s chilling weather is expected to ease on Sunday however high winds are expected to keep residents shivering.

August 23, 2020 8:37am

https://www.news.com.au/technology/e...9ff073c98700d0

Sydney, Melbourne weather: Burst of warmth to finish off winter

With the snow behind us, it’s likely to be a toasty end to winter with “record breaking” heat upping maximums by as much as 10C.

August 24, 2020 5:48pm

They are just as bad as old time religion fear mongering.

Their main page its just like a storefront, its like take your pick of what scares you the most and your brain's subcouncious clicks on it out of fear of not knowing "the truth" but the reality is that each article is designed from the ground up to trigger your fear reaction.

I know this and filter it out but to see them do it to the weather, that's funny.

[Mr_G6ET]

Not a good sign, this wont be good for Australia's economic recovery

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1199028.shtml

[Raptor]

Don’t just read the headlines, but that articles doesn’t touch on many of the facts either.

Iron Ore exports to China from Australia were down because COVID shut down a lot of Chinese steel making, so they didn’t need as much Iron Ore or Coking Coal.

Iron Ore exports from Brazil to China were up (month on month) as Brazil has been out of the market following last years Environmental catastrophes and their production has also been hit hard by COVID. They are only now coming back into the export market.

That said, do I think our current Governments posturing with our largest trading partner is wise. Hell no.

Just shut the **** up ScoMo

[gooseneck]

It got worse Raptor:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...a3b21a24ce2dda

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don’t just read the headlines, but that articles doesn’t touch on many of the facts either.



Iron Ore exports to China from Australia were down because COVID shut down a lot of Chinese steel making, so they didn’t need as much Iron Ore or Coking Coal.



Iron Ore exports from Brazil to China were up (month on month) as Brazil has been out of the market following last years Environmental catastrophes and their production has also been hit hard by COVID. They are only now coming back into the export market.



That said, do I think our current Governments posturing with our largest trading partner is wise. Hell no.



Just shut the **** up ScoMo

Ore export to China in July hit an all time high I think. They are opening up in a big way, and environmentalists aren't happy because they are breaching the emission limits.

4 vlocs built with more to come, for only one reason.

This whole China relationship is like death by a thousand cuts. Slowly slowly... Maybe best just to cut all ties and get it over and done with.

[T3rminator]

China Iron Ore Imports Touch New High In July
https://www.sharecafe.com.au/2020/08...-high-in-july/

Sorry I read it wrong. The import was record high, may not directly correspond to our export hitting record high.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Not a good sign, this wont be good for Australia's economic recovery

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1199028.shtml

I have to laugh about the talk about resolving disputes.

Apparently we can't get our Chinese counterparts on the phone to discuss anything if our ministers are to be believed and I tend to believe them given what we have heard and read.

How do you resolve things if both are speaking through the media? Regardless of whatever tensions there are you don't drop it cold as it appears has been done and keep it going behind closed doors.

Can you imagine an Aussie minister being able to turn up at the Chinese equivalent of the National Press Club (assuming there is one) and talk about how butthurt we are

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

It got worse Raptor:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...a3b21a24ce2dda

Don’t make that about China.

China has most deals at risk under new foreign interference powers

That’s about Australia’s need to get its own show in order and decide who the power sits with. Is it private/public enterprises such as companies or Universities, State Governments or only the Federal Government?

We stuffed up Federation, haven’t had the balls to become a Republic, and let the wealthy make their own rules. Is it any wonder no one knows who’s in charge .

I know, let’s blame those foreigners for interfering.
(Which could also be viewed as investing and injecting capital into our country/businesses/institutions)

You can’t blame the Chinese or anyone else just for trying to get a deal done.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don’t make that about China.

China has most deals at risk under new foreign interference powers

That’s about Australia’s need to get its own show in order and decide who the power sits with. Is it private/public enterprises such as companies or Universities, State Governments or only the Federal Government?

We stuffed up Federation, haven’t had the balls to become a Republic, and let the wealthy make their own rules. Is it any wonder no one knows who’s in charge .

I know, let’s blame those foreigners for interfering.

You can’t blame the Chinese or anyone else just for trying to get a deal done.

I get what you're saying but I agree with this legislation on the face value.

The federal government sets foreign policy and the states should not be able to enter into any agreement, MOU, contract whatever you call it that is contradictory to that.

While we know this is most obviously more applicable to China than others, the laws apply to any country.

I have noticed that generally speaking we shy from naming China publicly even though we know what it is about. It's more the rowdy back benchers who do.

[T3rminator]

Interesting response from the ex WA premier. I wonder what other sitting premiers are thinking. What you can say will be very limited without getting hung by the opposition and the media.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...-laws/12601514

The bill has good intentions, but no way should such powers be granted to an a single minister. Does a defence minister have sufficient experience in business and trade to make a sound risk based decision? What checks and balances are there to stop "deals" being blocked for political gains?
Given that each decision could potentially have long lasting effects, and have huge ramifications on the future for certain industries, it should be done by a committee made up of bipartisan members. Not by an individual who might not be there in less than 4 years.

And if you really want to get serious, remove all foreign influence and funding from our foreign policy think tanks like ASPI and Lowy, which provides foreign strategic advice to the government, and which often end up with "deals" being made. Stop doing things half @ssed.

Victoria will certainly be the biggest loser, followed by WA, then maybe QLD. All Labor states. Maybe just coincidence.

It will be very interesting to hear what the justification for cancelling Vic's BRI MOU will be.....because in 2018......

The ABC's Sabra Lane asked her whether her visit was in any way related to a memorandum of understanding signed between the Andrews Government in Victoria and the People's Republic of China about China's Belt and Road initiative.

"Not in the least," the famously-careful Payne responded. "No, that's a matter for Victoria in that regard.

"We obviously seek opportunities to strengthen engagement with China on regional trade and infrastructure development projects, and that includes the BRI, where those align with international best practices," she said.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12606412

I wonder if they'll pick up the phone now

[George V]

There are many think tanks. institutes and other similar bodies attached to universities too; They do provide some very interesting observations and story lines to media. My observation is - They are more like very clever lobby groups in disguise; some funded by external governments, large corporations and even our own government.

When one here the same story over and over again from many sources, there is a tendency to believe it without realising it.

I sincerely hope there is a policy line looking after the best interest of Australia rather than towing the line; do not like the ""you are with us or against us" version.

Regards,
George V

[gooseneck]

I strongly recommend anyone following this thread to also watch this video:
https://youtu.be/GSfeZWvCeBY?t=471

As we all know an invasion of Taiwan is bad news as the US would be pressured to support their interests in the region. I wouldn't be surprised however if North Korea doesn't take advantage of such a situation. If that is the case then there is no reason why China couldn't also take advantage of the situation and invade Hong Kong to assert their dominance over their claims over HK.

The US then seeing this as a greater threat also support Hong Kong. Russia then seeing this as a threat to their interests sends troops to Hong Kong Taiwan and the Chinese border.

I doubt Japan would be given up easily.

The only thing preventing this would be the Covid-19 lockdown easing and all western economies globally recovering and relations with China improving over time. Hopefully Trump doesn't win again.

I don't see the Chinese man-made islands being of any threat to anyone, an artificial Tsunami from a water detonated nuke could probably wipe them off the map quite easily.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

I strongly recommend anyone following this thread to also watch this video:
https://youtu.be/GSfeZWvCeBY?t=471

Interesting vid, brings a lot of the probable hotspots into one presentation.
I read somewhere today, China is on track to have a bigger fleet of ships etc. than the U.S.
I think the Taiwan, Hong Kong and the Sth China Sea is (as per the vid) is brewing into the most probable. That said there is some experience on AFF, history etc. ; I guess who knows.

I'm not sure a Trumpless Whitehouse will help much, hopefully him not there will help build alliances.
Yes Trump supporters, he has tackled some issues but he obviously has the social skills of a preteen

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

I strongly recommend anyone following this thread to also watch this video:
https://youtu.be/GSfeZWvCeBY?t=471

As we all know an invasion of Taiwan is bad news as the US would be pressured to support their interests in the region. I wouldn't be surprised however if North Korea doesn't take advantage of such a situation. If that is the case then there is no reason why China couldn't also take advantage of the situation and invade Hong Kong to assert their dominance over their claims over HK.

The US then seeing this as a greater threat also support Hong Kong. Russia then seeing this as a threat to their interests sends troops to Hong Kong Taiwan and the Chinese border.

I doubt Japan would be given up easily.

The only thing preventing this would be the Covid-19 lockdown easing and all western economies globally recovering and relations with China improving over time. Hopefully Trump doesn't win again.

I don't see the Chinese man-made islands being of any threat to anyone, an artificial Tsunami from a water detonated nuke could probably wipe them off the map quite easily.

Why would China need to invade Hong Kong? It's essentially already a part of China, they just run a slightly different system of government. One which the CCP has already watered down, and pretty much taken over already.

Based on those comments, I can pretty much just ignore the rest of your thoughts.

And Trump being in office is a good thing. He's one of the only ones keeping the CCP in check. Imagine Dementia Joe negotiating with Xi. God help the world if that happens. It would be a disaster.

Weren't you the one that went on a big anti-communist rant? Or was that someone else.

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why would China need to invade Hong Kong? Based on those comments, I can pretty much just ignore the rest of your thoughts.

Talk about sticking your head in the sand.

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/1/2075003...itary-invasion

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...akness-n600266


An invasion of Taiwan would spark further unrest in HK and HK is a good port the Chinese wouldn't leave those ports alone in their plans for a larger conflict if they have any.

Specifically it would be a nice little launching point that is easily defended on all sides. The Chinese could put artillery on all sides of HK Island and defend the HK port quite easily.

There aren't many other ports nearby that are as close to their stakes in the South China Sea and Taiwan so they could use HK as a means of defending their stakes.

All of the other ports are mostly farmland.

The US won't invade Hong Kong by putting ground forces down that would be suicide, They would just bomb it. But the US fearing civilian casualties won't.

For China to take HK would be the perfect launching point into the south. The closest harbor then would be XIAODANSHAN (Near Ningbo) but that is in the east china sea, more suited for Japan.

In other news:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...6dbb7809166b6f

[MITCHAY]

It's been reported that the CCP are telling Chinese companies to cut coal and cotton imports. It's not really clear if this is a cyclical thing or meant to be 'punishment'.

I guess the next thing on the chopping block is iron ore and if the later is true (punishment), then our government should stop laying down and taking this ****.

Not sure what we can do that can hurt them without hurting Aussies but at some point a line has to be drawn.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Not sure what we can do that can hurt them without hurting Aussies but at some point a line has to be drawn.

Hopefully our trade minister is 'really' seeking other buyers and let the Chinese do what they will do.
Aus has good quality so if we can re distribute buyers, **** them up the ****

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Hopefully our trade minister is 'really' seeking other buyers and let the Chinese do what they will do.
Aus has good quality so if we can re distribute buyers, **** them up the ****

There is a lot of talk, just hope it has results.

[ad2013]

Did anyone catch the interview on ABC radio national thismorning where a prominent Chinese born Chinese-Australian community leader, when asked how could we diffuse/rectify the current political conflict (or words to that effect); suggested we needed a new leader of our parliament/government as Scott Morrison couldn't do the job, or maybe even "a new government"? I found it very interesting that the answer wasn't that China needs a new leader!

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by ad2013

....suggested we needed a new leader of our parliament/government as Scott Morrison couldn't do the job, or maybe even "a new government"? ...I just found it very interesting that the answer wasn't that China needs a new leader!

Agree; they want to influence (or suggest) who we have as leader ?
FFS, they often say 'don't get into China's business'

They don't want Scott because he resists and/or spoke out !?

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by ad2013

Did anyone catch the interview on ABC radio national thismorning where a prominent Chinese born Chinese-Australian community leader, when asked how could we diffuse/rectify the current political conflict (or words to that effect); suggested we needed a new leader of our parliament/government as Scott Morrison couldn't do the job, or maybe even "a new government"? I found it very interesting that the answer wasn't that China needs a new leader!

One more step....

I found it very interesting that the answer wasn't that we need a new leader, a Chinese one

[Tickford.]

China has killed 1,484,156 people (not including their own) around the world since December 2019. That figure is still rising. Not to mention the economic situation around the world, which will take decades to recover from.

They did this without firing a single bullet. And what is the world doing about it? Sweet f**k all. Wars have broken out for much less. China has to pay!

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ad2013

Did anyone catch the interview on ABC radio national thismorning where a prominent Chinese born Chinese-Australian community leader, when asked how could we diffuse/rectify the current political conflict (or words to that effect); suggested we needed a new leader of our parliament/government as Scott Morrison couldn't do the job, or maybe even "a new government"? I found it very interesting that the answer wasn't that China needs a new leader!

The Chinese are very skilled at blaming their problems and mistakes on others. They know exactly how to turn it around and shift blame while smiling and keeping a straight face.

Watch some of their fights and arguments on YouTube - makes your blood boil just watching how they can argue and defend their own stupidity.

I had the unfortunate experience of dating a Chinese girl for a while. Some of the stuff I observed and the conversations we had have a very similar tune to what China is doing to Australia.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The Chinese are very skilled at blaming their problems and mistakes on others. They know exactly how to turn it around and shift blame while smiling and keeping a straight face.

Watch some of their fights and arguments on YouTube - makes your blood boil just watching how they can argue and defend their own stupidity.

I had the unfortunate experience of dating a Chinese girl for a while. Some of the stuff I observed and the conversations we had have a very similar tune to what China is doing to Australia.

Are you not worried you are making sweeping generalisation about 1.4 Billion people? Based on a girl friend and the actions of a small number of Chinese in the CCP.

Would you accept the same categorising of how "all" Australians think in the same manner?

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The Chinese are very skilled at blaming their problems and mistakes on others. They know exactly how to turn it around and shift blame while smiling and keeping a straight face.

Watch some of their fights and arguments on YouTube - makes your blood boil just watching how they can argue and defend their own stupidity.

I had the unfortunate experience of dating a Chinese girl for a while. Some of the stuff I observed and the conversations we had have a very similar tune to what China is doing to Australia.

She used to photoshop you?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Are you not worried you are making sweeping generalisation about 1.4 Billion people? Based on a girl friend and the actions of a small number of Chinese in the CCP.

Would you accept the same categorising of how "all" Australians think in the same manner?

Not at all. My observations and experiences span far more than just my ex GF.

I'm also an importer and salesperson of products, and travelled extensively in China as well as several other countries when I was searching for suppliers.

I knew 12 years ago to NOT do business with them, and my 1 month and 1 day there for holiday / business was the worst travel experience of my life (and I have been around the world several times for extensive periods).

I source my products from South Korea BTW.

There are multiple Youtubers that go into detail the mentality of the mainstream Chinese and their sweeping generalisations are also validated by their own experiences and observations.

Of course what I say doesn't apply to all Chinese and I never implied that all do as I suggested however there is an ever-growing global dislike for how they act and behave and there are reasons for that.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Beijing threatens Australia with ‘lasting punishment’ as WeChat removes Scott Morrison’s post

In a fresh escalation of tensions, Beijing has warned Australia it faces “lasting punishment” over a call to boycott Chinese-made products.

Samantha Maiden DECEMBER 3, 2020

Beijing has warned Australia that it faces “lasting punishment” over a call to boycott Chinese-made products, led by Pauline Hanson.

The One Nation leader this week said a ban on the importation of goods produced in the country should be implemented, amid the continuing fallout over a fake image of an Australian soldier shared by a top Communist Party official on Twitter.

In an editorial in Beijing’s English-language mouthpiece The Global Times, Senator Hanson was told she can dish out all the trade threats she likes but she may not be able to handle the “lasting punishment”.

The latest stinging remarks come after the social media giant WeChat censored Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s post, which was a direct appeal to millions of Chinese users on the app.

The material published on the PM’s official account was deleted overnight, his office confirmed.

A message from WeChat now states that the content “involves the use of inciting, misleading, or contrary to objective facts, text, pictures, videos, etc., fabricate social hot spots, distort historical events, and confuse the public.”

Meanwhile, Twitter has refused Australia’s request to remove the original offending image – a doctored piece of “art” depicting a grinning Australian soldier crouching on an Afghan flag and an Australian flag, holding a knife to the throat of a child.

In his now-censored WeChat post, the PM insisted on Tuesday that the incendiary image would not diminish Australia’s respect for the Chinese community at home or abroad.

.................................................. ........

https://www.news.com.au/national/wec...e0f8399517d2f4

[Yellow_Festiva]

Fight over pristine Whitsundays beach reaches fever pitch

A Chinese property developer has gone to ground after locals were booted from beaches on a pristine Whitsundays island paradise they call home.

Rohan Smith DECEMBER 3, 2020

On Keswick Island, 30km from Mackay in the Whitsundays, life has changed dramatically.

Land-based access to sections of the national park have been “locked” or blocked with boulders; keep out signs have been erected along the foreshore.

The airstrip is no longer accessible and, worst of all according to locals, one of the island’s most majestic public beaches is off limits.

The picturesque playground in the Coral Sea is being controlled by a Chinese developer who has gone to ground after purchasing the 96-year lease for 117 hectares with plans to develop a tourist resort to accommodate 3000 people.

China Bloom, through Adelaide-based agent Greaton Holdings, took control of the largest lease on the subtropical island in 2019 after it was listed for sale at just under $20 million.

But the small community that calls the 530 hectares of Keswick Island home has been banned from accessing large parts of public land, including the national park (which accounts for 400 hectares).

Buggy access to the esplanade on beautiful Basil Bay is now off limits. The track is blocked with rocks and “permit only” signs.

...........................

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...c1def63d319101