VFacts Jan 2012 Falcon 950 sales!!!!!!!!! - Page 9

**Polyal** · 08-02-2012, 05:45 PM

Thats it, the Territory RWD would have sorted many issues (maybe even emissions as its the same thing)...it really would not cost that much.

Calibration, engine mounts, trans etc is done.

prydey · 08-02-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

It makes a decent business case as high 5's would be achievable in comparison to 8.1 for ecoboost.

i just don't see it. not sure how you get to the 'high 5's' figure as well. territory is between 8.2 - 9L/100km combined. to give you an idea, the territory that has the same driveline as falcon (rwd petrol) gets 10.6 compared to falcon 9.9. thats only 0.7 better in falcon, so not sure how you expect the same engine to go from mid 8L/100km in territory to high 5's in falcon. personally i can't see it being massively more economical than territory and the useable power band is narrower than ecoboost. ecoboost also makes falcon eligible to '4cyl only' fleet criteria.

its all speculation at the end of the day. whats done is done and i have complete faith in the boffins at ford.

**russellw** · 08-02-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Falcon ute should see better numbers with LPI back... It will never get back to its old figure of approx 1000 a month without XR8 ute... I would say 650 - 700 is it max now in FG2 once Ford ramps things up.. XR6 utility is a great buy now!

In the last full year of XR8 Ute production it accounted for an average 70 sales per month so it should still be able to achieve 850-900 a month with a steady supply of ECOLPi utes.

Cheers
Russ

**russellw** · 08-02-2012, 06:29 PM

The second set of graphical charts are uploaded too.

Cheers
Russ

FPV GTHO · 08-02-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Its pretty easy... Remember Territory has it!

You also think a BF Mk4 wagon with updated engine/transmission wouldve been easy, but others have claimed it wouldve been a nightmare. I'm alot more satisfied seeing Ecoboost going into Falcon. Its a global engine with global consequences. Its also following a global Ford trend to replace diesel performance with Ecoboost.

Smoke Pursuit · 08-02-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i just don't see it. not sure how you get to the 'high 5's' figure as well. territory is between 8.2 - 9L/100km combined. to give you an idea, the territory that has the same driveline as falcon (rwd petrol) gets 10.6 compared to falcon 9.9. thats only 0.7 better in falcon, so not sure how you expect the same engine to go from mid 8L/100km in territory to high 5's in falcon. personally i can't see it being massively more economical than territory and the useable power band is narrower than ecoboost. ecoboost also makes falcon eligible to '4cyl only' fleet criteria.

its all speculation at the end of the day. whats done is done and i have complete faith in the boffins at ford.

How could you have faith in someone whos lost so much ground in such a short period of time...

Territory extra urban is 6.5 l / 100.... That's how i come up with Falcon being high 5's...

You are talking to the converted... My Territory does 8.3 around Brisbane... On the highway it will do mid 6's. Its a fair amount heavier then Falcon...

Brazen · 08-02-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

In the last full year of XR8 Ute production it accounted for an average 70 sales per month so it should still be able to achieve 850-900 a month with a steady supply of ECOLPi utes.

Cheers
Russ

With the far inferior 5.4

prydey · 08-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

How could you have faith in someone whos lost so much ground in such a short period of time...

simple. i see the reason for falling sales as nothing more than the result of more choice on the market and large sedans being out of favour. nothing more, nothing less. what they have now, and have coming is very positive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Territory extra urban is 6.5 l / 100.... That's how i come up with Falcon being high 5's...

You are talking to the converted... My Territory does 8.3 around Brisbane... On the highway it will do mid 6's. Its a fair amount heavier then Falcon...

fair enough. your earlier post compared it to the 8.1 from ecoboost, which is ecoboost combined figure. ecoboost extra urban is listed at 6.0. to me, the ecoboost numbers are very similar to what a diesel would produce.

prydey · 08-02-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

With the far inferior 5.4

far inferior to what? it had more power than commodore, was actually more economical than there AFM and performance was pretty much on par.

far inferior to xr6t? i wouldn't say 'far inferior'. i would say they were equal. the xr8 was there for those who still wanted that v8 sound. performance and economy were about par for each.

Brazen · 08-02-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

far inferior to what? it had more power than commodore, was actually more economical than there AFM and performance was pretty much on par.

far inferior to xr6t? i wouldn't say 'far inferior'. i would say they were equal. the xr8 was there for those who still wanted that v8 sound. performance and economy were about par for each.

Tell them they wasted their 40 million on a new engine then.

prydey · 08-02-2012, 07:13 PM

so people didn't buy xr8 sedans and utes because they knew down the track there was a better engine coming.??

i thought 5.4 wasn't euro 4 compliant. i'm sure your reason is better though.

jpd80 · 08-02-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Id love it if they are building and selling that amount..surely thats a win...what did they old one sell like?

Don't forget E-Gas was sedan, Station wagon and Ute...

martyk54 · 09-02-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

far inferior to xr6t? i wouldn't say 'far inferior'. i would say they were equal.

Having owned 1 x BA XR8, 1 x BA XR6T and 1 x FG XR6T, I couldn't disagree more. The 5.4 was just lifeless, it never felt like a performance engine to me at all.. just didn't rev. Moving on to FG XR6T v FG XR8, well, it's embarrassing how much superior the XR6T is performance wise against what used to be the 'top of the range' falcon. The car didn't have the same prowess on the road dynamically as the XR6T either. TBO the only advantage I could give the 5.4 is exhaust note w/ a custom exhaust... and bonnet bulge. That's where it begins and ends for me.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

You also think a BF Mk4 wagon with updated engine/transmission wouldve been easy, but others have claimed it wouldve been a nightmare. I'm alot more satisfied seeing Ecoboost going into Falcon. Its a global engine with global consequences. Its also following a global Ford trend to replace diesel performance with Ecoboost.

A nightmare?? Why??

The only reason they didn't do it was to try and build Mondeo wagon sales... Which they have failed with simply because Mondeo wagon cannot handle big weights in the boot without sagging...

It would have been quiet easy for Ford to drop the later Euro 4 motor / 6 speed auto in the wagon, they could have given it alloys standard and a leather steering wheel while they were at it just to dress it up... people like Telstra would continue buying them, they are a tool of trade, not a look at me car.

Brazen · 09-02-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

A nightmare?? Why??

The only reason they didn't do it was to try and build Mondeo wagon sales... Which they have failed with simply because Mondeo wagon cannot handle big weights in the boot without sagging...

It would have been quiet easy for Ford to drop the later Euro 4 motor / 6 speed auto in the wagon, they could have given it alloys standard and a leather steering wheel while they were at it just to dress it up... people like Telstra would continue buying them, they are a tool of trade, not a look at me car.

the government would of paid for it too, under the guise of 'environmental improvements' back then the Green car fund was chockers with money.

I still laugh when I remember Burela was saying it was cancelled to help increase sedan production - this was back when Falcon has about $8,000 off retail, delaers were mass registering as demos and sales were plummeting also fleets were deserting the Commodore wagon in droves due to lack of cargo room and lack of LPG.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

the government would of paid for it too, under the guise of 'environmental improvements' back then the Green car fund was chockers with money.

I still laugh when I remember Burela was saying it was cancelled to help increase sedan production - this was back when Falcon has about $8,000 off retail and sales were plummeting and fleets were deserting the Commodore wagon due to lack of cargo room and lack of LPG.

Yep... Oh well I guess they will never learn, bit hard to bring it back to life now!!

They could have easily spent 10 mill on grafting the FG front onto the AU body... at least then they could have said look heres our new wagon... Now ute will die next thanks to that silly decision...

Ford - we have an answer for everything.

Gobes32 · 09-02-2012, 12:00 PM

AT THE TIME, keeping the wagon going was a nightmare, and it was stopping Ford from producing more profitable sedans. In hindsight, would we love to still have the wagon and it's 200 sales a month, bloody oath. But as they say, hindsight is the best sight of all............

Homer · 09-02-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

far inferior to what? it had more power than commodore, was actually more economical than there AFM and performance was pretty much on par.

far inferior to xr6t? i wouldn't say 'far inferior'. i would say they were equal. the xr8 was there for those who still wanted that v8 sound. performance and economy were about par for each.

People didn’t buy the XR8 because the V8 in the Holden is superior.
You also could buy the V8 in a range of cars, so aren't just limited to an SS.

johnydep · 09-02-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer

People didn’t buy the XR8 because the V8 in the Holden is superior.
You also could buy the V8 in a range of cars, so aren't just limited to an SS.

The options list on Ford's are too limited. Bring back the old days when you could get just about any combination you wanted, for a price.

I don't know if it's because they've got hooked onto Fleet sales, where options isn't so important, of if it's an inflexible production line.

Times have changed, people want something a little different to the rest of th crowd. To do that they need more options.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

AT THE TIME, keeping the wagon going was a nightmare, and it was stopping Ford from producing more profitable sedans. In hindsight, would we love to still have the wagon and it's 200 sales a month, bloody oath. But as they say, hindsight is the best sight of all............

They were selling more then 200 wagons a month...

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

The options list on Ford's are too limited. Bring back the old days when you could get just about any combination you wanted, for a price.

I don't know if it's because they've got hooked onto Fleet sales, where options isn't so important, of if it's an inflexible production line.

Times have changed, people want something a little different to the rest of th crowd. To do that they need more options.

Its to save money, especially in regard to JIT... Thats why they only really build XR6's... Its cheaper build cars of the same spec.

prydey · 09-02-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer

You also could buy the V8 in a range of cars, so aren't just limited to an SS.

you sure about that. i think you'll find commodore is very similar to falcon as far as options go.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you sure about that. i think you'll find commodore is very similar to falcon as far as options go.

Yes you can get V8 in SS, SS-V, SS-V Redline (sedan / wagons) & Calais-V / Calais-V Redline Sedan and Wagon..

Holden gives you a fair few options, wheels, bullbars, nudgebars etc etc.

z80 · 09-02-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

How could you have faith in someone whos lost so much ground in such a short period of time...

Territory extra urban is 6.5 l / 100.... That's how i come up with Falcon being high 5's...

You are talking to the converted... My Territory does 8.3 around Brisbane... On the highway it will do mid 6's. Its a fair amount heavier then Falcon...

1100 k's to a tank in a Territory? 5L/100km for a Falcon?

I know we are Ford fans here, but that's a bit rich mate....

jpd80 · 09-02-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

1100 k's to a tank in a Territory? 5L/100km for a Falcon?

I know we are Ford fans here, but that's a bit rich mate....

Jaguar XF is around Falcon size/weight:

The 2.2 TD has a combined of 5.4 and a Extra Urban of 4.8
The 3.0 TD has a combined of 6.3 and a Extra Urban of 5.0

Link

The 5.0 V8 has a combined of 11.1 and a Extra Urban of 7.8
The 5.0 S/C V8 has a combined of 12.5 and a Extra Urban of 8.7

Homer · 09-02-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

you sure about that. i think you'll find commodore is very similar to falcon as far as options go.

Yep, as per the list by DASH GT below. Also the V8 was able to be optioned up in the Berlina and normal Calais but I think this was dropped about a year ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yes you can get V8 in SS, SS-V, SS-V Redline (sedan / wagons) & Calais-V / Calais-V Redline Sedan and Wagon..

Holden gives you a fair few options, wheels, bullbars, nudgebars etc etc.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-02-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

1100 k's to a tank in a Territory? 5L/100km for a Falcon?

I know we are Ford fans here, but that's a bit rich mate....

Last time I checked your a 380 fan..

jpd80 · 09-02-2012, 11:51 PM

Last year, Holden sold over 11,000 V8s and since they come from low cost Mexico,
the engines are near the same cost as the SIDI V6 engines to procure so lotsa profit for Holden.

Holden sells more V8s because their fans want them, not because they don't have a turbo six..
If the I-6T was discontinued tomorrow and replaced by NA Coyote V8, there's no guarantee
that those combined V8 sales would be higher than current I-6T sales... but we will never know for sure..

jpd80 · 09-02-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Last time I checked your a 380 fan..

That's like waiting for a bus that's never coming....

Lots of cars have nice features, perhaps our perceptions are a collage of the best parts and none of the negatives..

jpd80 · 09-02-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

the government would of paid for it too, under the guise of 'environmental improvements' back then the Green car fund was chockers with money.

I still laugh when I remember Burela was saying it was cancelled to help increase sedan production - this was back when Falcon has about $8,000 off retail, delaers were mass registering as demos and sales were plummeting also fleets were deserting the Commodore wagon in droves due to lack of cargo room and lack of LPG.

Hmm, FGII nose and dash in an upgraded BF 3 wagon, FG doors and frame section maybe SZ Terry tail lights too?