Post-2016 Falcon News and Discussion.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Emissions?

More like an off-the-cuff comment from Ford at NAIAS that the E8 platform would be at the end of its life in 2016 and that they hadnt thought about a replacement at that time. The Fairfax reporters there put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7 and have been perpetuating the story ever since. Ford's notorious wall of silence didnt help and simply fuelled the 'Taurus Theory' to the point we are at today.

Euro V comes into play on 1 November 2013 for new cars, and 1 November 2016 for everything else that was not new but on the market on 1 November 2013.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

You win, and how many engines currently do ford Oz have that can meet those requirements with little work?

Coyote / Miami and Ecoboost. The Falcon could shrink 100mm at the front end with no I6.

[Archilino]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

You win, and how many engines currently do ford Oz have that can meet those requirements with little work?

Or perhaps one of us could run for parliament, get into the top office and give the falcon I6 immunity from he emission regs?

[Joe5619]

Delete my post, I misread something!!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Euro V comes into play on 1 November 2013 for new cars, and 1 November 2016 for everything else that was not new but on the market on 1 November 2013.

There is the answer.

FH needs to launch prior to 1-11-2013. The I6 will be gone by 1-11-2016.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Road_Warrior likes this



<4 with virtual build (which Broady now has)

At this point in time, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and have a better clue than a bunch of internet know it alls on a forum full of haters. Don't forget they're in the middle of/starting to shake off a painful restructuring process; there's going to be a lot of baby steps and careful silence for a while.

Can I ask what restructure are you talking about? Apart from FPV I have not read anything about a restruture?

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Can I ask what restructure are you talking about? Apart from FPV I have not read anything about a restruture?

Ford recently downsized by about 450 workers.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by phillyc

There is the answer.

FH needs to launch prior to launch prior to 1-11-2013. The I6 will be gone by 1-11-2016.

It won't be out till 2014 though, so that won't work.

Come 2016 the engines will all need to be Euro 5, the i6 will require dollars to do it, EB4 just needs to be certified, probably the same as V8.

The I6 LPi is supposedly already capable of Euro 6, just needs certification.

TDv6 is a real struggle, as far as i'm aware its not Euro 5 capable? Would need to be swapped for 3 litre TDV6 probably.

I think maybe Ford can carry over engines that aren't Euro 5 post 2013 if they do not touch them? As in come 2014 Falcon they would need to be indentical to the previous models engine.

Either way Ford will have to carry the engine line-up post 2013 so they must have some sort of exemption or plan to make them Euro 5, cause the next upgrade is definately 2014 and not 2013.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Ford recently downsized by about 450 workers.

Not until November.

FPV restructured their management recently.

[SteveJH]

November 2013 is late enough to release an MY2014 model.

Alternatively, they either kill off the I6 in November 2013 going to an all I4 and V8 lineup, or they spend a significant amount of money upgrading the I6 for Euro 5.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Archilino

Or perhaps one of us could run for parliament, get into the top office and give the falcon I6 immunity from he emission regs?

Euro 3 to Euro 4 was arguably a bigger, more expensive update than going from Euro 4 to Euro 6.
It may not be big bucks Ford is asking for to get emissions compliance for all existing engines..


See, I believe that 2014 will be a progresive move - an evolution towards the 2016 car,
Ford could then go for another two years after 2016 by evolving the 2014 car one more time...

[dimka100]

I thought the Euro 5 standards come in 2014?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It won't be out till 2014 though, so that won't work.

Come 2016 the engines will all need to be Euro 5, the i6 will require dollars to do it, EB4 just needs to be certified, probably the same as V8.

The I6 LPi is supposedly already capable of Euro 6, just needs certification.

TDv6 is a real struggle, as far as i'm aware its not Euro 5 capable? Would need to be swapped for 3 litre TDV6 probably.

I think maybe Ford can carry over engines that aren't Euro 5 post 2013 if they do not touch them? As in come 2014 Falcon they would need to be indentical to the previous models engine.

Either way Ford will have to carry the engine line-up post 2013 so they must have some sort of exemption or plan to make them Euro 5, cause the next upgrade is definately 2014 and not 2013.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I thought the Euro 5 standards come in 2014?

No,

Light Petrol, LPG and NG Vehicles
Euro 2 adopted in ADR79/00 from 1/1/03 to 1/1/04
Euro 3 adopted in ADR79/01 from 1/1/05 to 1/1/06
Euro 4 adopted in ADR79/02 from 1/7/08 to 1/7/10
Euro 5 adopted in ADR79/03 (Core Euro 5)1 from 1/11/13
and ADR79/04 (Full Euro 5) from 1/11/16
Euro 6 to be adopted in ADR79/05 from 1/7/17 to 1/7/18

LINK

Just a guess but meeting Euro 5 might not be as hard as some think.....

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Ford recently downsized by about 450 workers.

I wont call slowing down the line a restruture??

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I wont call slowing down the line a restruture??

If you cut line workers you also cut out a fair bit of the management roles that supervise them, so yeah, there would be accompanying management changes.

[naddis01]

What is the point of the I6 now anyway?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I wont call slowing down the line a restruture??

It's deceptively complex, it involves everything from parts delivery to assembly times at each
station, the number of employees doing jobs and also changing the ratio of products built.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

More like an off-the-cuff comment from Ford at NAIAS that the E8 platform would be at the end of its life in 2016 and that they hadnt thought about a replacement at that time. The Fairfax reporters there put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7 and have been perpetuating the story ever since. Ford's notorious wall of silence didnt help and simply fuelled the 'Taurus Theory' to the point we are at today.

Euro V comes into play on 1 November 2013 for new cars, and 1 November 2016 for everything else that was not new but on the market on 1 November 2013.

What I find that interesting is this,
VE Zeta was introduced in 2006 and was originally supposed to run 6 to 7 years before a new product cycle started
but VF is actually still another extension of that original VE Zeta design which will take it out to at least 10 years.

Falcon could simply keep evolving through 2014 to 2016 until say 2018 and review what's needed then.

[Terraplainin']

Originally Posted by naddis01

What is the point of the I6 now anyway?

Towing in the bush, away from ready LPG availability. Also, some people just like them.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Sinead Phipps

Hey folks, I see that the advertising debate continues - I'm not going to keep discussing it too much in this thread because there isn't really a lot more that I can say. I'm / we're not ignoring you though - there is just a limit to how much info we can share publicly about what we're doing.

What I can tell you though is that we have a really busy week coming up next week. In amongst all the doom and gloom and concern about the future, we're continuing to invest in our business - both our facilities and the technologies we use to develop our vehicles; and in the technology we have in our global vehicles as well.

We have more than 45 media from a variety of outlets (not just auto - we've got design and tech media and bloggers as well), as well as a contingent of international journalists coming to our refurbished Design Centre on Tuesday and Wednesday (running two waves of a one-day program), where we'll be showcasing some of the pretty cool stuff that helps us be one of Ford's global Centres of Excellence for vehicle design and development. I'll post some info here on Wednesday to share with you all. We'll have photo and video as well, which we'll post on our Facebook pages at various stages after the event so keep an eye out for that as well.

In the meantime, have a great weekend!

Good luck and I hope it goes well. I'm also certain a few of us here would happily volunteer to act as "ushers' for the event and should any journo's dare ask about post-2016 Falcon and mention Taurus in the same breath then we can "gently" take them on a tour of the "recycling plant"* out back .

*=1.5m3 skip.

[csv8]

Isn't 2014 too late for an FG2 upgrade ? thats 18 months to 2 years away??? Depending on release date?? VF will be here and Hyundais Genesis??

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by csv8

Isn't 2014 too late for an FG2 upgrade ? thats 18 months to 2 years away??? Depending on release date?? VF will be here and Hyundais Genesis??

Too late for what exactly? Ford isnt operating to Holden's (or anyone else's) timeline, they are using their own.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

Isn't 2014 too late for an FG2 upgrade ? thats 18 months to 2 years away??? Depending on release date?? VF will be here and Hyundais Genesis??

Yeh bring out a new model every 6 minutes so the current one cops a HUGE hit is resale......yeh that will convince people to buy one.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Elks

Who is "Mr Smith"

An anonymous figure on an anonyums forum in "the Pub".

I find it rather strange that Ford would make an official presence in this section, bit like guy selling socks at the local pub on a Friday afternoon.

[Joe5619]

When is the next Territory update due? Is that coming in 2014 as well?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

When is the next Territory update due? Is that coming in 2014 as well?

Supposedly it is, I am eagerly awaiting this for my update.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by csv8

Isn't 2014 too late for an FG2 upgrade ? thats 18 months to 2 years away??? Depending on release date?? VF will be here and Hyundais Genesis??

The constraints of tight budgets, Falcon gets upgrades at prescribed times to coincide with availability and supplier changes..

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What I find that interesting is this,
VE Zeta was introduced in 2006 and was originally supposed to run 6 to 7 years before a new product cycle started
but VF is actually still another extension of that original VE Zeta design which will take it out to at least 10 years.

Falcon could simply keep evolving through 2014 to 2016 until say 2018 and review what's needed then.

I agree that there seems to be a strange need for the platform to be "all new"..its just not the case and you cant justify it for the current business case (Oz only sales).

Ford NA will happily state they are investing now, this is true, but its also not...up until 2015/16 things are locked in, budgeted etc so of course they will spruk that they are investing into the current Falcon. It still doesnt address past the next cycle.

Lets just say FG3 is a roaring success...sales back to 2000+...what happens then? They are suddenly going to flick a switch and develop a car within 1-2 years (FG4/GWRD) as FG3 will be long in the tooth by then.

What exactly are they waiting on? Nothing from the EU as they have very little to contribute to a GRWD program...would such a car even work there? So it all hinges IMO on what the USA wants to do...how much sorted do they need to be? They must know now, or very soon, what they are going to be doing in 4 years time..and if something is going ahead then the wheels will start turning very soon....that is a really positive outcome..so why not make a really generic announcement that plans are afoot...it would ease many peoples minds.

Im past the point of caring whether the Falcon will continue in its current form (of course its preferred), I dont care what they pump out of broady as long as it is relevant and not half cocked.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by naddis01

What is the point of the I6 now anyway?

The thing is that it makes up at least 90+% of Falcon sales, so the point is more accurately, what is the point of the EB 4, which probably makes up about 3%. Even the V8 outsells the EB4 by at least 2 to 1.

Shows how much of failure Fords sales and marketing plan for it was, if they even had one. It was basically doomed to fail before it was even released, because barely any one knows it exists. Why the hell would you waste $40 million or so putting it in Falcon and then not do any form of promotion bar some stickers on a V8SC and a lame youtube clip that probably cost $500 to make.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

and then not do any form of promotion bar some stickers on a V8SC and a lame youtube clip that probably cost $500 to make.

do you really think that is the extent of it?

did you go to one of the presentations they put on?? maybe you might have learned something. would have been nice to have one in every capital city.