FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread - Page 9

JPFS1 · 24-10-2012, 11:36 AM

I think 2014 update will cost a fair bit more than $50M.

barra240t · 24-10-2012, 12:34 PM

I'm surprised of the news, pleasantly suprised, something to look forward to

pursuit2359 · 24-10-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

For Falcon to get to 2018, it may only cost Ford $50M (2014) and another $20 M in 2016..

I call that economically viable..

I don't disagree with that. My comments were about developing a new platform for Falcon that would take it beyond 2016.

Nikked · 24-10-2012, 12:36 PM

E8 already goes beyond 2016...

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I think 2014 update will cost a fair bit more than $50M.

Depends how much of the car is being touched, if Ford is doing more than just a face lift, they may need to do clays..

Quote:

Originally Posted by pursuit2359

I don't disagree with that. My comments were about developing a new platform for Falcon that would take it beyond 2016.

And I'm saying with a good 2014 update and a Euro 5 emission update in 2016, E8 could be good for 2018.

Quite simply, there is no need to go to another platform...just integrate all the good bits from "One Ford"..

SB076 · 24-10-2012, 12:56 PM

Well done Ford, it has got my attention will be good to find out more - 2014 seems so far away.

tranquilized · 24-10-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

And I'm saying with a good 2014 update and a Euro 5 emission update in 2016, E8 could be good for 2018.

Quite simply, there is no need to go to another platform...just integrate all the good bits from "One Ford"..

Yes but as Pursuit2359 and myself have been saying, its after this generation Falcon that Ford will most likely move to a global FWD platform. Its a no brainer. As to exactly when that will be - 2017, 2018, 2019, who knows. But it would be safe to assume that the 2014 update will last more than 2 years.

Theres the outside chance that the Falcon will continue on a shared platform with Mustang, but I think this is a long shot because;

It would still cost a lot of development $ to get a Falcon out of a Mustang, a lot more than adapting whatever the global large car FWD platform is at the time. Falcons sales figures dont give any incentive to bother.

Mustang is going global - why try to sell 4 door RWD performance sedans next to the Mustang? Mustang alongside a FWD family sedan makes more sense and appeals to more people.

Commodore is also going after this generation.

The writing is on the wall. Everyone has about 6 years to buy a RWD Falcon if they want one that much.

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

The writing is on the wall. Everyone has about 6 years to buy a RWD Falcon if they want one that much.

Ford won't make that decision until after the 2014 car is released.

We were doing so well in this thread until you turned up with that...

tranquilized · 24-10-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford won't make that decision until after the 2014 car is released.

We were doing so well in this thread until you turned up with that...

Doing well at putting your head in the sand maybe

I'm not trying to be negative - I dont see what I'm saying as being negative. I'm sure there will be new Fords in showrooms in 2020 that we all want to buy.

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Doing well at putting your head in the sand maybe

I'm not trying to be negative - I dont see what I'm saying as being negative. I'm sure there will be new Fords in showrooms in 2020 that we all want to buy.

You're not understanding what is being said, the way it's being said.

Quote:

Ford Australia’s E8 (Falcon/Territory RWD platform) vehicle line director Dave Wilkinson told GoAuto in Sydney last week that “there’s a huge amount of functional alignment” between engineers in Australia and the US.

“Chassis engineers here are in constant contact with the chassis engineers in America and in Europe and around the world,” he said.

“Our expertise (in rear-wheel-drive vehicles) is embedded in the Ford DNA, in the Ford targets around the world.

“It’s very much an interconnected, functionally aligned Ford now – very different to what it was 15 years ago.”

I'm not about to convince, that I'm sure of, I just ask that you don't start with the FWD "done deal" stuff as that just isn't true....

Road_Warrior · 24-10-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Doing well at putting your head in the sand maybe

I'm not trying to be negative - I dont see what I'm saying as being negative. I'm sure there will be new Fords in showrooms in 2020 that we all want to buy.

He doesn't have his head in the sand, he's just saying the simple reality is that Ford won't even be close to making that sort of decision either way until they're 3-4 years out from the maturity date of the platform. Anything to the contrary at this point in time is pure speculation.

JPFS1 · 24-10-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Depends how much of the car is being touched, if Ford is doing more than just a face lift, they may need to do clays..

You will find that depending on the extent of the facelift, they will still do clays.

In this case, all done.

Road_Warrior · 24-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

You will find that depending on the extent of the facelift, they will still do clays.

In this case, all done.

As an aside, in this virtual/digital age, can you see car makers continuing to do this, or will something else take the place of the clay modeling process?

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

As an aside, in this virtual/digital age, can you see car makers continuing to do this, or will something else take the place of the clay modeling process?

There's nothing like getting in actually building what's being designed and seeing first hand how it looks.
Can you imagine the feeling of being back in AU days and walking in to see this...LINK

TMC · 24-10-2012, 03:46 PM

I could see the sales people laughing there heads off after they came up with that clip. It's very effective actually. Like throwing burley at a bunch of hungry herring. You could throw anything at the water and it would boil. Vague as all heck, but with this sort of thing you have to play your cards close to your chest.

Good to see a 2014 Falcon being designed. Now we'll all just have to wait like good little herring to find out the details.

tranquilized · 24-10-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

You're not understanding what is being said, the way it's being said.

I'm not about to convince, that I'm sure of, I just ask that you don't start with the FWD "done deal" stuff as that just isn't true....

All I see in those comments is that FOA are involved with the next generation Mustang.

But anyway, this is one of those instances where I'll be happy to be proven wrong. You and others here are more into this stuff than I so theres every chance I will be - lets just wait and see.

Regardless of how it all pans out we have about 6 years of the current generation left including what looks to be a great update in 2014, and then most likely the Mustang arriving here late in the decade so the way I see it things are looking damn good in the Ford camp.

Road_Warrior · 24-10-2012, 04:39 PM

The Mustang will be here when it arrives everywhere else, 2014/2015.

Incidentally, I see Flat Rock Assembly (FRAP) now has responsibility for next gen Taurus AND Lincoln MKS production, in addition to the Mustang and Fusion. Along the lines of what I have said before, that is an AWFUL lot of work for one assembly plant, and RHD Mustangs are going to be a real pain for them with all that model and parts complexity. Australia could become the RHD production hub for Mustangs, globally, which would make sense if the next gen Mustang and the 2014 Falcon are sharing more than just good looks.

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Australia could become the RHD production hub for Mustangs, globally, which would make sense if the next gen Mustang and the 2014 Falcon are sharing more than just good looks.

Works for me.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

All I see in those comments is that FOA are involved with the next generation Mustang.

But anyway, this is one of those instances where I'll be happy to be proven wrong. You and others here are more into this stuff than I so theres every chance I will be - lets just wait and see.

Regardless of how it all pans out we have about 6 years of the current generation left including what looks to be a great update in 2014, and then most likely the Mustang arriving here late in the decade so the way I see it things are looking damn good in the Ford camp.

And I'm good with that too, thumbs up..

Nikked · 24-10-2012, 05:14 PM

Ford still haven't fullt revealed the plans for the next-gen toreass...

But they have came out and said that:

-In 2014, there will be a Falcon upgrade, to take us to around 2018...
-In 2014-15, there will be an all new Mustang, with IRS

The rumor (as in, its been suggested) is that the Taurus will use a stretched CD4 platform, to replace the old, borrowed D3 platform...thats all.

FPV GTHO · 24-10-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Incidentally, I see Flat Rock Assembly (FRAP) now has responsibility for next gen Taurus AND Lincoln MKS production, in addition to the Mustang and Fusion. Along the lines of what I have said before, that is an AWFUL lot of work for one assembly plant, and RHD Mustangs are going to be a real pain for them with all that model and parts complexity. Australia could become the RHD production hub for Mustangs, globally, which would make sense if the next gen Mustang and the 2014 Falcon are sharing more than just good looks.

I wasn't really with you on this previously, but the recent Taurus announcement makes it a bit more plausible.

However, there's still going to be a question of costs somewhere. Either Falcon stays and Broadmeadows takes on a Mustang line or gets converted to a CD4 line. History shows that Holden spent $600m on an already developed Cruze and Mitsubishi spent a similar amount on a face lifted Galant. How many hundreds of millions will it cost to adapt Broadmeadows to produce Mustang?

Road_Warrior · 24-10-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I wasn't really with you on this previously, but the recent Taurus announcement makes it a bit more plausible.

However, there's still going to be a question of costs somewhere. Either Falcon stays and Broadmeadows takes on a Mustang line or gets converted to a CD4 line. History shows that Holden spent $600m on an already developed Cruze and Mitsubishi spent a similar amount on a face lifted Galant. How many hundreds of millions will it cost to adapt Broadmeadows to produce Mustang?

Part of the problem with Holden and the Cruze was that Holden did the development for the hatchback and the fact they were using an ancilliary assembly line that hadnt been used in years (I think this is the old 'Plant No. 2' where the Vectra was built). So the startup costs associated with that would have been huge. As Broady is a solitary assembly line that is in constant use and being regularly updated, you'd have to say that costs for Mustang production would be limited Mustang-specific tooling and alteration of existing tooling and machines to allow Mustang-specific processes to take place. The processes involved for making one unibody car over another are basically the same, just the parameters are different. Sure, there might be some fundamental differences (sedan v ute for example) but they won't have that problem.

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Ford still haven't fullt revealed the plans for the next-gen toreass...

But they have came out and said that:

-In 2014, there will be a Falcon upgrade, to take us to around 2018...
-In 2014-15, there will be an all new Mustang, with IRS

The rumor (as in, its been suggested) is that the Taurus will use a stretched CD4 platform, to replace the old, borrowed D3 platform...thats all.

LINK
Production of next gen Taurus and Lincoln MKS is moving to Flat Rock Assmbly Plant,
currently being set up for CD4 Fusion and Lincoln MKZ while the other side remains dedicated to Mustang.

Bossxr8 · 24-10-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz

One would have to assume Boss... that when they take away availability for the Petrol, then more people would turn to the EcoLPi or EcoBoost offerings.

Only thing wrong there is the Turbo would be no more... and we need that. (Or do we?)

People won't just instantly buy LPi if they don't have the option of petrol. Most of those buyers wouldn't even consider LPG. It won't happen, you can't not have a petrol version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I love this thread... not even two months ago we were talking about the Falcon not surviving beyong 2014, now we're looking forward to an all new model.

Long Live The Ford Falcon.

I need to mention here that the 2014 Falcon is a facelift, not an all new model. It will share the majority of its components with the FGII.

jpd80 · 24-10-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I need to mention here that the 2014 Falcon is a facelift, not an all new model. It will share the majority of its components with the FGII.

Someone suggested the designation FU for the 2014 Falcon as a message to journalists
and possibly FU 2 for the 2016 model just to reinforce the feeling..

Seduce XR6 · 25-10-2012, 07:58 PM

Look at the preview & then look at the nose on this : http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ed-future-cars

Nikked · 25-10-2012, 09:07 PM

GT014 · 25-10-2012, 10:15 PM

Looks fantastic Nikked. Only thing that doesn't look right is the headlights.

Bossxr8 · 25-10-2012, 10:33 PM

That looks way better. Very cool.

Bossxr8 · 25-10-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Someone suggested the designation FU for the 2014 Falcon as a message to journalists
and possibly FU 2 for the 2016 model just to reinforce the feeling..

I can see a full page ad in Wheels, with the title "Introducing to Wheels magazine, the FU"

Yellow_Festiva · 25-10-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I can see a full page ad in Wheels, with the title "Introducing to Wheels magazine, the FU"

Bit like those BMW / Audi / Subaru ads that were going around

Actually.... Bentley did something similar as well ;)