NT derestricted zones....

[Outbackjack]

I was just thinking how lucky territorions are to be able to cruise along the main highways with out fear of being booked for speeding. I feel sorry for drivers elsewhere with white knuckles grasping onto their steering wheels staring at their speedo's, terrified that they might slip over the speed limit and be condemned to burn in hell for all eternity.

Does any one else know where else there are speed limit free zones in civilised counties (other than autobahn's in Germany)???

[CAMS290]

I drove up from Melbourne last june for the Finke race, gotta love those derestricted signs.
Foot down 230kph+, Kulgera to Alice is great, going back the other way from Kulgera to Port Augusta, was boring.

[Aussie_Geo]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

I was just thinking how lucky territorions are to be able to cruise along the main highways with out fear of being booked for speeding. I feel sorry for drivers elsewhere with white knuckles grasping onto their steering wheels staring at their speedo's, terrified that they might slip over the speed limit and be condemned to burn in hell for all eternity.

Does any one else know where else there are speed limit free zones in civilised counties (other than autobahn's in Germany)???

with my work I often travel to the USA where we have three mines working and have done a few road trips... mustangs of course.....

Anyway me US mates tell me that whilst Nevada and Mississippi both have speed limits (Nevada is 80 mph on the interstates) it is actually very hard to be caught speeding as the good old boys (the cops) really dont start to get interested in you until you reach 100 mph. Not a bad cruising speed

but my fav is the NT... I have done Mt Isa to Darwin in my previous car (Au II XR6 VCT) and average 160 kmh for the trip. Only thing that passed me was a boss. That aint going to happen when I go up there with this girl :the_finge

Peter

[Keepleft]

Southern Philippines - use the derestriction sign (//).
Iran, India where (//) is designated. Pakistan ditto.
Some Argentinian roads. Some AU countries use the (//) sign to full effect.

Malaysia teaches its drivers about the sign (//) but does not use it.

Derestriction is recognised at law in Spain, but is not posted.

Isle of Man (GB) is genuine (//) unlike mainland GB, which lies and tells you the sign means 70mph. NZ ditto.

This year to date, NT road toll is reduced from last year. Alcohol and indigenous persons figure for half the toll in town areas as pedestrian vs vehicle impact, yet are 23% of the total population.

Despite opinion of some, NT police do use radar on (//) zones and will charge you for being a nut or otehrwise plain stupid.

[megsy]

i do know of a derestriction sign that still exists in victoria, but im not disclosing it's exact location except that it is in the mountains and it's a long windy dirt road that if you do more than 80 on it's not safe.

[AWD Chaser]

NT police do use radar on (//) zones and will charge you for being a nut or otehrwise plain stupid.

But if ur crusing at over 200 clicks, are they gonna catch you????

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

But if ur crusing at over 200 clicks, are they gonna catch you????

Probably, the NT police have some rather mean looking XR8's and XR6T's. And yes they do use radar. They dont book you for speeding but do get you for dangerous driving. But you have to be unlucky. We passed a police car on the stuart highway a couple of weeks ago. We were doing about 150 when we passed. He caught up with us at a service station and gave a wry smile and freindly gidday and asked if we were having a good trip. He was driving a toyota hi lux riot ute. Yes we were having a good trip.... :eclipsee_

[Smoked]

Being interesting if they charged you for dangerous driving. At what speed does it become classed as dangerous?

[JC]

Originally Posted by megsy

i do know of a derestriction sign that still exists in victoria, but im not disclosing it's exact location except that it is in the mountains and it's a long windy dirt road that if you do more than 80 on it's not safe.

I think you'll find that the states max limit applies - ie 110.

[2kool4u]

I've seen sines with a blac circle signifying no speed limit, but its not even the states maximum that applies, it's 100k's, I don't know why they don't just put a 100k sign up though

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Being interesting if they charged you for dangerous driving. At what speed does it become classed as dangerous?

sorry to quote you old mate but what you've said sums up the mentality that is just wrong. speed is not the problem. the inability to control the speed is the problem. sometimes doing 30km/h could be too fast. having said that, i know how fast my GT goes and will probably never go that fast again as it is an inappropriate speed for me to feel in control.
as for the NT, it would be up to the discretion of the police as to whether you were driving dangerously. i just hope the present government dosn't weaken and fall into line with all the other money grabbing states.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by JC

I think you'll find that the states max limit applies - ie 110.

Yes that is what the coppers will tell you but the limit is 100km/h UNLESS OTHERWISED SIGNED. This means that if there is a "60" sign or a "110" then that is the speed.

Australia is a signatory to a treaty on standardisation of road signs. This is why a 100km/h, the one with the red ring, is the same in all states and many other countries. Travel around Europe, NZ, Canada etc the signs are the same, not 100 in a blue square or "SPEED LIMIT 100" in pink with purple spots.

The (//) sign means "NO LIMIT" and this superscedes any federal, state or local laws. Queensland has removed almost all of the (//) signs and replaced them with "END 60 AREA" or what ever because they lost a (//) case a while ago.

Imagine if Victoria made a law that "100" means 80 at night or something equally stupid. No one would know what the limit was because it would mean different things in different places.

Many years ago I got rolled in WA in a "Hire Cars & Taxi" lane in a El-cheapo renta-rocket. I had never seen one of these before and was confused as to why they let Avis & Hertz get their own lane.
The copper told me I had a "Rental Car" not a "Hire Car".
In QLD, "hire cars" are "Limmos" and "Rental Cars" were "Hire Cars".
I showed him my "Hire Car agreement" stating it was a hire car and he let me off with a warning.

Now there are standards and it is a "Rental Car" in all states.

Bottom line. If you see a (//) outside NT there is no limit but if you are seen by a copper you will get rolled and have to fight it in court. If you are going light speed they will probably throw in dangerous driving and then you will REALLY have a fight on your hands.

Do what you think is the right thing.......

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by 2kool4u

I've seen sines with a blac circle signifying no speed limit, but its not even the states maximum that applies, it's 100k's, I don't know why they don't just put a 100k sign up though

YES, "the state authorities", primarily Vic Roads, RTA, QLD Transport will tell you "the rural default applies", some police on the other hand aren't so sure.

I hold the International meaning as reality.

The speed derestriction sign (//) - IS an INTERNATIONAL road traffic sign. It's meaning is NOT meant to be PROSTITUTED by Australian state public servants.

It's meaning at International law is vis: "END OF ALL LOCAL PROHIBITIONS IMPOSED ON MOVING VEHICLES", hardly "rural default speed limit" or "speed limit 100km/h" or "speed limit 110km/h (WA)", or "100km/h in NZ".

The sign is catalogued in ALL United Nations Conventions on Road Traffic, Road Signs and Signals as; C,17(a). A CONVENTION has LEGAL BITE on 'states parties' to comply once they are so contracted. Australia IS contracted to the Road Traffic portion of the Convention, but did not asceded to the "SIGNS" portion. That said, we are not to give different meaning to the sign.

As the UN Transport people tell me, 'this is something that public servants need reminding of every few years, just what it is they contracted and what it actually all means'. In our case, THE COMMONWEALTH on behalf of the States, naturally, signed the 1949 Convention which then carried at law in 1953.

The meaning of the sign has not changed with time, it will not. It is the same sign design used to signal the end of speed limits on the autobahn.

This is India's example, scroll down:
http://www.delhitrafficpolice.nic.in...tory-signs.htm
Malaysia teaches its true meaning, and show the sign in the driver manual, but it is not posted.

The Convention allows for certain restraints, "license categories" (eg L and P's), and certain vehicle restrictions such as speed limited heavy vehicles.

The AUSTRALIAN STANDARD 1742.4 of 1986 made the monumental stuff up, of virtually stating the sign meant rural default speed limit as and when applied. Remember that 'members' of the relevant Committee that oversee this Standard are primarily sourced from State government agencies of this Commonwealth.

This most serious error of ways was CORRECTED by the AUSTRALIAN STANDARD 1742.4 of 1999 where the sign once again reflects the UN Convention OWNERSHIP and MEANING vis, "The speed derestriction sign shall be used at the start point of a length of road to signal that NO speed limit applies to the driver beyond the sign". (In this Standard the sign is catalogued as an R4-2).

SO, then we have the Australian Road Rules, which are adopted into the states as Regulations and are a place where clever socialist state public transport employees reside and manipulate development for their own academic ends. Here, RULE 25 tells you that when there are no speed limit signs on a rural road, that the states 'RURAL DEFAULT', as applied, applies.

The term "no speed limit signs" (In AS 1742.4 catalogued as the R4-1's) means just that. A speed derestriction sign however is another type of sign totally unrelated and afterall it CAN apply to a length of road, it is certainly not a speed limit sign under NATIONAL METROLOGY held at AS1742.4 of 1999, and certainly in the UN Conventions is absolutely not.

EVEN IF the AS said the sign means 100km/h, at an appeal to the High Court or International Court of Justice, it will not.

It's designs and meaning go back to as early as 1923 from the League of Nations, the UN's predecessor.

CAN you be actioned in some manner when passing a speed derestriction sign? Yes. Example, NT police see you at 180km/h and the officer observes this for a length of time. She then hits the sirens and pulls you up. You are then arrested and charged with 'speed dangerous'. NOW in court it is she who must convince the magistrate of this, she might cite items such as 'not keeping wholly in lane', taking a bend too fast for the prevailing conditions etc and so on.

Most police would just flash their emergency lights or high-beams to get you to drop back a bit, if they percieve danger, say in your speed. My advice is do so, but better still, don't be in a position where you come under notice at any time.

The speed you drive at in a speed derestiction zone is one that meant to be 'comfortable', drive as though you have Her Majesty on board (no, not your wife). Many NT folk say they sit around the 120 - 140km/h mark.

ON AUSTRALIA: Over the years VIC, QLD, SA, NSW, TAS have set about removing the speed derestiction signs. Here in NSW, COUNCILS have been PROHIBITED from placing them anymore, DITTO QLD, indeed QLD government transport people WILL NOT back up in court a Council defence where someone sues them 'as the authority who placed the sign' by a wayward officer who fines them for exceeding the speed limit.

I am discussing the issue with WA right now, here WA had been removing them from built-up areas, keeping the sign for rural areas. My view is this is simply not on, and that they either accept the meaning or remove them completely.

NT APPLICATION: Here, NT has no rural default at law (Rule 25-NT Reg 77). In effect a blanket GEOGRAPHICAL remove of all speed limits outside built up areas.

I have argued that NT could adopt a rural default, effectively bringing 93% of the jurisdiction into a speed limit, YET could keep the speed derestriction sign with FULL legal no-limit effect, - BUT ONLY to roads which are actually posted with them! It is called LINNEAR POSTING as held in the AS.

If you have a derestriction sign in VIC or SA or NSW, then I'd like to know about it, its exact location. In NSW our current Speed Zone Guidelines prohibit their installation.

In time, I want every state and territory driver handbook to again include the speed derestriction sign, BUT ONLY once the meaning and serious responsibility under it are fully understood - by the ever career changing public servants.

In NSW part of this step was to convince RTA to at least call the sign by its legal title, so now the Road Users' Handbook from May last year says such words as "Speed Derestrict" or "Derestriction sign", then we tell you it means 100km/h:-)

IN the past editions, we use to merely describe it vis; "the sign showing a diagonal stripe means there will be no more speed limit signs and that 100km/h applies".

No matter how much grog I drank, I could never make it mean that!

[baboon]

nt roads in a mates ss

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by baboon

nt roads in a mates ss

Provided it was safe at point of operation I have no concern with that, IF he is an idiot, then I do.

Some seeing that pic will become hysterical and break down bawling, not realising it is most likely a top speed run, in effect a 'momentary thing' where the driver then sits back a bit at a more reasonable speed.

Do NOT do that when passing/overtaking other traffic.

I Germany 'speed' is done between lengths of vehicles, not 'constant'. You REDUCE speed on approach by lifting the foot from the accelerator, cruise pass and back in with full indicators, then your off again.

[Smoked]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

sorry to quote you old mate but what you've said sums up the mentality that is just wrong. speed is not the problem. the inability to control the speed is the problem. sometimes doing 30km/h could be too fast. having said that, i know how fast my GT goes and will probably never go that fast again as it is an inappropriate speed for me to feel in control.

Ok? im not sure i was presenting a mentaility, i was more presenting an arguement that having it derestricted leaves it open to a person interpretation of what is dangerous or not. Im not talking about driving like a n00b, i was meaning at speed in the eyes of an individual does it become dangerous. At 200km/h, you potentially could have great control of a BMW M3.

Of course, any speed you do can be danerous, any combination of terrain, weather and road conditions can lead to even small speeds (your eg of 30 being realistic).

[baboon]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Provided it was safe at point of operation I have no concern with that, IF he is an idiot, then I do.

Some seeing that pic will become hysterical and break down bawling, not realising it is most likely a top speed run, in effect a 'momentary thing' where the driver then sits back a bit at a more reasonable speed.

Do NOT do that when passing/overtaking other traffic.

I Germany 'speed' is done between lengths of vehicles, not 'constant'. You REDUCE speed on approach by lifting the foot from the accelerator, cruise pass and back in with full indicators, then your off again.

We had to slow down, there was corners coming up.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Ok? im not sure i was presenting a mentaility, i was more presenting an arguement that having it derestricted leaves it open to a person interpretation of what is dangerous or not. Im not talking about driving like a n00b, i was meaning at speed in the eyes of an individual does it become dangerous. At 200km/h, you potentially could have great control of a BMW M3.

Of course, any speed you do can be danerous, any combination of terrain, weather and road conditions can lead to even small speeds (your eg of 30 being realistic).

yeah, i shouldn't have quoted you, oh well :

as all the other states have tried to brain wash drivers that 110km/h is all you need, which then becomes the mentality. i lived in the NT for 18 years and used the Stuart highway fairly often. the amount of non Territory plates doing 100km/h in de-restricted zones was quite a high percentage. that to me is a mentality thing born from government brain washing :

[OLDFORDNUT]

its all a joke really, just think 30 years ago we had cars with poor brakes and suspension and terrible roads and speed limit was 100kmh max now we have much better suspension and fantastic brakes in comparrison to back then,we also have much much better roads as a whole and our deaths on road per year are 1/3 of back then (mainly due to roads and seat belts and better brakes) plus driver awareness of fines yet we have still got 100 to 110 kmh limit , by rite we can safely travel at 130kmh very safely in good conditions , the answer is simple to why nothing has changed
REVENUE

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by nicholas

its all a joke really, just think 30 years ago we had cars with poor brakes and suspension and terrible roads and speed limit was 100kmh max now we have much better suspension and fantastic brakes in comparrison to back then,we also have much much better roads as a whole and our deaths on road per year are 1/3 of back then (mainly due to roads and seat belts and better brakes) plus driver awareness of fines yet we have still got 100 to 110 kmh limit , by rite we can safely travel at 130kmh very safely in good conditions , the answer is simple to why nothing has changed
REVENUE

Touche. :voldar02:

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by nicholas

its all a joke really, just think 30 years ago we had cars with poor brakes and suspension and terrible roads and speed limit was 100kmh max now we have much better suspension and fantastic brakes in comparrison to back then,we also have much much better roads as a whole and our deaths on road per year are 1/3 of back then (mainly due to roads and seat belts and better brakes) plus driver awareness of fines yet we have still got 100 to 110 kmh limit , by rite we can safely travel at 130kmh very safely in good conditions , the answer is simple to why nothing has changed
REVENUE

ACTUALLY N, in NSW up to July 1979 NSW had NT derestriction, EXCEPT that we had an 80km/h PRIMA FACIE limit attached to it. Now, You could legally exceed this 80km/h prima facie limit signalled by the derestricion sign (//), BUT if police charged you with 'speed dangerous' or other driving offences above 80km/h, you were demed to be 'guilty' of the offence/s UNLESS you could prove your were not.

Police often 'complained' of not being able to control 'speed'.

This was not compatible with our inhereted legal system, so the NSW parliament, in a fit of memory loss and hysteria, created a 100km/h maximum when passing the sign. They sold it to the public that it was 'faster' than the 80km/h prima facie and so was not all that 'bad'.

I was overseas at the time, and was not in a position legally to challenge the mistake, and besides was too young anyhow.

Then NSW DMR set about removing the speed derestriction signs from all main highways out of Sydney, but would often miss a few. Even in the early 80's I'd see one down the south coast somewhere and would open up, even once challenging a HWP unit who got me at 122km/h. I explained my position and respectfully said I'd more or less be delighted to further matter.

At that time in my formative training, my old man was a QC and former National Court judge, and I an over worked young barristers clerk.