ADVICE PLEASE: Mustang GT - Deposit refund?

[Walt Kowalski]

Cliffs/Facts:
In June 17, I gave my Credit Card details over the phone to a FORD DEALER salesman because I wanted a 2018 GT to replace my 17 GT.
The company debited my card the $1,000 and an additional $17 (which wasn’t discussed)
Despite many requests for a price over many months this particular Salesman (who replaced the awesome Salesman I bought my 17 GT from) claimed he couldn’t give a price because he didn’t know what the price would be. Fair enough. Up to a point.
This practice continued well after (in fact a few months) after numerous other dealers had given me a price. EDIT. AND EMAILED ME CONTRACTS.
I contacted him numerous times after I had other prices and he still claimed he didn’t have prices and couldn’t give me a price.
By now my BS meter was going off big time.
Eventually the Salsman rang to say “Your car has just arrived and it will be ready for you on Tuesday”.
When I asked the price, it was many thousands higher than any other dealer - What I’d suspected he might try all along.
I said no thanks. Please refund my deposit.
His Sales Manager rang me straight back and dropped the price by $2,000 immediately..
I said “No thanks. Still too expensive. Please credit my Credit Card the deposit”
He put the whole guilt trip on me claiming it was MY CAR - Despite there being no contract email / issued let alone signed. And no price until five minutes earlier.
I declined and again asked for my refund.
He kept trying to guilt me into it and even asked me to declare the prices I had been given and where I would buy one.
I declined, said it was private information and again asked for my refund.
He kept ignoring and dodging the refund question and claimed IT WAS MY CAR.
I’m not stupid and have bought many new cars and over a dozen brand new Fords.
If there’s NO PRICE there is no contract.
If there’s either no contract written, emailed to me or signed there is no contract. All three definitely no contract.
I’ve since bought an 18GT Fastback AND an 18GT Convertible. They are AWESOME BTW.

What does the AFF brains trust suggest my next step?

[BENT_8]

Why didnt you just tell him what the best price you'd been given was and see if he would match it, if he had of then i would assume that you'd have been happy to have continued with the deal you instigated by making the phone call and providing your deposit details for.
If he couldnt match it then fair enough, but if he could, and had the car sitting there based on your intention to honour the verbal contract you instigated and you just decided to buy elsewhere, im afraid the deposit is his and your 2 new Mustangs cost you $500 more than their contracts suggest.

[GO FURTHER]

I would never pay a deposit on a car or any large ticket item for that matter for which I did not know what the price was.

Caveat emptor.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Im afraid the deposit is his and your 2 new Mustangs cost you $500 more than their contracts suggest.

Well $508.50 more each, but yes he wont get the deposit back.

personally I wouldnt put a deposit down without knowing the price..

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why didnt you just tell him what the best price you'd been given was and see if he would match it, if he had of then i would assume that you'd have been happy to have continued with the deal you instigated by making the phone call and providing your deposit details for.
If he couldnt match it then fair enough, but if he could, and had the car sitting there based on your intention to honour the verbal contract you instigated and you just decided to buy elsewhere, im afraid the deposit is his and your 2 new Mustangs cost you $500 more than their contracts suggest.

The Sales Manager said was the BEST DEAL any dealer could do. 6 other dealers blew him out of the water,

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Well $508.50 more each, but yes he wont get the deposit back.

personally I wouldnt put a deposit down without knowing the price..

I’m still WAAAY ahead.

It’s the only way to secure a Mustang before relase.

[Fordman1]

Lodge a claim with you Credit Card Company and let them sort it out.

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

I would never pay a deposit on a car or any large ticket item for that matter for which I did not know what the price was.

Caveat emptor.

It’s the only way to be in line for a Mustang before release.

Common practice.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

It’s the only way to be in line for a Mustang before release.

Common practice.

In that case, I would have signed a contract of sale, with the following agreed to added clause by both parties...

"I have the right to a full refund of my holding deposit paid, less any costs prescribed in the cooling-off period applicable to purchasing new cars in my state under consumer laws if I am not happy with the final purchase price when notified in writing, within a 3 working day cooling-off period".

I bet most car salesmen chasing their targets would agree to the above and still take your deposit.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Lodge a claim with you Credit Card Company and let them sort it out.

Yep, I found out this can be done when credit card details are taken over the phone.
https://www.finder.com.au/how-to-rev...rd-transaction

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Lodge a claim with you Credit Card Company and let them sort it out.

Agreed, I just had over a thousand dollars refunded from a rental car company after getting my bank on to them.

I signed the paperwork and paid by credit card before inspecting the car, when I saw the bald tyres I refused to accept it and had to go elsewhere.
The rental car company didn't want to refund the money but the bank got it back.

[b0son]

Deposit placed >12 mths ago? Isnt there a 3-6mth max on chargebacks?

In any case, if it was all done over the phone, you can always go to Fair Trading and say the sales guy agreed to refund the deposit if the price was not agreed upon. If they didn't record the conversation, prove otherwise.

[ozrunner]

I'm with BENT_8 on this.

The cars sitting there ready for you to collect so I've no idea why you didn't let him know the lowest price you have since been given and if they matched it then go collect it.

I assume the other prices were also for cars already on the lot.

In addition, how was he to know you may have just wanted to get out of the deal and were telling porkies but if they matched it they would have soon known it was a sale. If not, then no issues would prevail re refund.

[GT0132]

For there to be a valid contract the price must be agreed to. The fact there was a deposit paid doesn't of itself constitute a sales contract if there was no agreement on price. Neither party has the right to vary the conditions without the approval of the other party. I think the OP should get his deposit refunded . Different story if price was agreed to, then the buyer will lose deposit for pulling out and worse may even be obliged to complete the purchase. May be different rules for cooling off periods which would be stipulated in the contract - but it seems there isn't one .

See Fair Trading in your state as a first step

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

I'm with BENT_8 on this.

The cars sitting there ready for you to collect so I've no idea why you didn't let him know the lowest price you have since been given and if they matched it then go collect it.

I assume the other prices were also for cars already on the lot.

In addition, how was he to know you may have just wanted to get out of the deal and were telling porkies but if they matched it they would have soon known it was a sale. If not, then no issues would prevail re refund.

id do the same to prove a point, why give them the sale for being sneaky. they were hoping that he would be an excited pushover, they were wrong

[sixman]

Was the price above the Ford recommended retail pricing?


When I have preordered in the past - when price was not confirmed- it was stated the price would be according to Ford Aus

[FTE217]

How many would have had a set price when putting down deposits when GTF was announced ? in advance.
Same goes for Sprint.
When your putting a $1-2k deposit down from my 2 times 12mths + in advance it was agreed if price wasn't to satisfaction they agreed to refund deposit no problem at all.
Once pricing was released then it was either agree or disagree, I had no issue.
In Walts phone discussion mind you I would have been ****ed that they call when car arrives at dealer, I would have sorted final price before that.
In saying that, no contract signed nothing is binding - they should refund his $1k in good faith and without prejudice.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

id do the same to prove a point, why give them the sale for being sneaky. they were hoping that he would be an excited pushover, they were wrong

But they asked for the cost he had been given and the dealer so what was the problem telling them. Did he also advise them he may buy a convertible at the same time ?

How can you blame the dealer if you don't give them the facts. If I was the dealer and this info wasn't forthcoming I would smell a rat an assume he had just changed his mind.

Now he may drop the deposit or endeavour to chase it up all to prove a point !!!! Makes a lot of sense when the first dealer may have matched it if given the info asked for. If not, then there would have been no issues refunding his deposit.

[arronm]

I dont think you have a claim, given the circumstances, and now time frame. You didnt even give the dealer a chance to match the price.

Are you are happy with the new cars? , suck it up, learn from it and move on.

[Eaturbo]

Forget and move on. Not worth the man hours for $1000. You paid a deposit to buy the car at recommended retail. You don't have the option to order the car and for them to knock back selling it to someone else only to cancel later cause it doesn't suit. You gave them your commitment when you paid a deposit. A deposit is considered a verbal contract otherwise you wouldn't have paid it. Bit sneaky what they did but you were both playing a game.

[Mr Brooksy]

Personally I'm with Kevin, if a buyer needs to hassle the salesman for a price of a new car, have the salesman deny he has one after multiple other salesman offers one, and then try the guilt trip that they have a car for him with no contract in place, there'd be no way I would trust them with my business.

I known that we are all trying to get ahead in this day and age, but the situation reeks of another salesman doing their best to manipulate the customer. Sorry, but as a customer, you don't need to take that crap, nor should you.

Sure the salesman in question seems to have made a noise about making good on the situation, but for me, his integrity is shot (assuming there's no other info withheld). No way I buy from someone who's playing games with me.

[Junkyard-Dog]

I really can't comprehend why you would put a deposit down when you don't even know what the final price will be. If I was the salesman, I would've been seeing $ signs at that point too.

You certainly made it easy for them to take advantage of you, one way or the other. Not meaning to sound harsh, just the way I see it. The concept of putting a deposit down on a car that costs an unknown amount is absurd to me.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

The Sales Manager said was the BEST DEAL any dealer could do. 6 other dealers blew him out of the water,

Then why didnt you show him the better deal on paper and say match it and ill honour our verbal contract.
Whats there to lose in showing him what you had come up with and giving him the right of refusal, if he refuses its game over and you should be entitled to a refund but not if you've just gone with he better deal elsewhere before discussing it with him, infact, it makes little sense not too unless you had already made your mind up which is beyond his control.

Im not saying he's completely innocent in his methods, but he is a car salesman, he's got your money and it is a cut throat industry so should be factored in as a minimum.

[ratter]

I think as long as the dealer is no more than Ford Australia’s recommend price, they keep the deposit .

[WUB913]

Go to fair trading mate!

[Tonz]

my 2 bobs worth, I think your an idiot putting this up here, you should be jumping on dept fair trading for advice, for petes sake as you can see there have been many opinions expressed here which I'd guess has screwed your brain even further.

Dept fair trade or go home with your watts it between your legs.

[CyberWasp]

For all of this to make any sense to everyone, you have to list the prices of all you have outlined.

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by b0son

Deposit placed >12 mths ago? Isnt there a 3-6mth max on chargebacks?

In any case, if it was all done over the phone, you can always go to Fair Trading and say the sales guy agreed to refund the deposit if the price was not agreed upon. If they didn't record the conversation, prove otherwise.

Will actually did say it was refundable if price was not acceptable to me.

I think possibly this COULD be normal practice to get the CC for such an order.

[Redm]

Not sure how it works in other states, but in wa if no car is delivered on a signed contract within 3 months, then you can pull out with all deposits refunded.

Did this twice to secure my XR8 back in 2015.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Will actually did say it was refundable if price was not acceptable to me.

I think possibly this COULD be normal practice to get the CC for such an order.

My father got a refund on a $1k mustang deposit too. He found a cheaper price and the dealer didn’t want to match the price so he was refunded. The dealer was glad to refund though because he wanted the mustang in stock to sell anyway. Though this is with the first mustangs when there was a long waiting list.